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20.8.17 1804
The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw 7-17-17: Mystery Solved
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lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 6 hours
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.14
So, the big mystery is Kurt had a kid and he grew up to be one of the American Alphas who is not Gable. So, you know that happened. We also got Braun back to set up another multi-person match at SummerSlam. The Hardys, the lone face tag team lose again. Enzo and Show get punked out by Big Cass. My child was told this week that Enzo and Cass is over, she was less than pleased. She was even worse when I said Bayley and Sasha may share the same fate. She is not right for this. Speaking of Sasha/Bayley. We get Bayley/Sasah IV next week which the Raw booking will fuck it up with another interference to set up a multi person match at SummerSlam.

Finn and Wyatt seem to be on a collision course. The mini-Shield reunion will take on the MizEntrouge next week which will probably lead to another mulit person match at SummerSlam for the IC title. Sensing a pattern yet?

(edited by lotjx on 18.7.17 0720)


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andy1278
Kishke








Since: 11.1.02
From: Brunswick, GA

Since last post: 5 hours
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.53
I can hear Vince now. "They think his kid is Gable? We'll make it Jordan, pal!"

If you're going to throw us for a loop, really go for it. Let the Drifter be Kurt's son. "Dad, I've been travelling a long, lonely road trying to find you... I came to Raw when you did and I've been trying to play you a song in backstage segments for weeks."

I'm always down for Sasha-Bayley, but I'm sure they will find a way to screw it up.
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 4 hours
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96
The main event and close out segment were amazing displays of big guys beating the piss out of each other. Roman vs fired up Joe made me wish we got Roman vs prime Necro Butcher.

The mystery wasn't Dixie so I was disappointed, but it does get people talking about Jordon. It wouldn't surprise me if down the road Jordon turned evil and said the whole thing was made up to get himself noticed. It was the McMahons at least so that's fine.

El Nastio
Boudin blanc








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 6 hours
ICQ:  
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.67
The hoss battle at the end complete with Braun showing up was DOPE, and it's one multiman match I can get behind if it happens. Joe's earned his spot on the top of the card, Braun is super over, Roman (despite the mixed reactions and questionable booking) can go in the ring with the right people. In actuality, I want the fatal four way more than I do singles matches.

So for the reveal; meh. Could have been worse.



"You can't put a price on integrity"
Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 27 days
Last activity: 27 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06

So much for American Alpha ... really disappointed that they didn't get to achieve some level of greatness on the main roster.

Once again, WWE goes & breaks up a perfectly good tag team. Though I was a bit tired of their shtick, it was too soon to pull the trigger on the Enzo/Cass breakup. #DIY was another team that I thought would get a longer run (but it's a moot point now with the Ciampa injury).
Dr Unlikely
Pepperoni








Since: 2.1.02

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.61
To start the show, Ambrose and Rollins got beaten down with chairs, eliciting an actual "Roman!" chant from the crowd, so eager to see the Shield reunite that they were finally ready to pop for Reigns. Reigns - who still dresses in the Shield outfit and uses the Shield theme - was in the building, but couldn't be bothered to come out and make the save, and never mentioned what was going on with his best friend and former best friend later.

By the time Roman does come out to the ring at the end of the show, he's back to being booed again by the crowd.

Who thinks this is good?

Who thinks this helps Reigns?

Who passes up the opportunity for Reigns to get that genuine exalted crowd reaction that he would have gotten if he'd come out to even the odds (well, vastly flip the odds, we are talking about Miz, Bo and the Axe-Man here) for Ambrose and Reigns?

Who is so insanely shortsighted that they can't imagine the insane crowd reaction and follow-up online buzz that would have closed this Raw if the show ended with a battered but resolute Ambrose and Rollins coming down with chairs to defend Roman and have a staredown with BRAUN as the show ends?

Like, seriously, imagine how electric that crowd is if you have Ambrose and Rollins standing over Reigns (who helped them earlier) as an intrigued Braun saunters off, all while a furious Joe looks on in the background, planning to kill all of them? They blew it - and blew it big time - years ago by racing into the Shield break-up and not having the Shield as a unit when Lesnar destroyed Cena at Summerslam. I remain convinced that, if they'd just planned a little, Brock as Unstoppable Monster who destroyed Cena finally being backed down by a Roman-led Shield would have made Roman's ascendency about 5000x easier. Now you get a chance to do it again (with the bonus of going into Summerslam with a ridiculous Brock vs. Joe vs. BRAUN vs. Shield vs. Miz & company interlocking set of feuds) and they still can't be bothered to just think.
Tenken347
Knackwurst








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 5 hours
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    Who is so insanely shortsighted that they can't imagine the insane crowd reaction and follow-up online buzz that would have closed this Raw if the show ended with a battered but resolute Ambrose and Rollins coming down with chairs to defend Roman and have a staredown with BRAUN as the show ends?


We all saw that exact same scenario in our heads, right? Like, as soon as the Miz-tourage showed up, we were all already thinking ahead to the end of the show and this precise image. There is nothing, nothing wrestling fans want more than to see the SHIELD again. Faces, heels, nobody cares. We just want the three of these guys doing stuff together again.

As for the reveal, well, it ain't a hot take, but breaking up American Alpha, arguably the best tag team in the entire company, after, what, maybe 5 actual main roster matches (including their run as SDL tag champs) to further the absolute stupidest angle they could think of? Not a super move, in my opinion. I guess they could still fix it by also bringing over Gable next week (they won't) so that AA can fight the Revival again (they won't).
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 4 hours
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    To start the show, Ambrose and Rollins got beaten down with chairs, eliciting an actual "Roman!" chant from the crowd, so eager to see the Shield reunite that they were finally ready to pop for Reigns. Reigns - who still dresses in the Shield outfit and uses the Shield theme - was in the building, but couldn't be bothered to come out and make the save, and never mentioned what was going on with his best friend and former best friend later.

    By the time Roman does come out to the ring at the end of the show, he's back to being booed again by the crowd.

    Who thinks this is good?

    Who thinks this helps Reigns?

    Who passes up the opportunity for Reigns to get that genuine exalted crowd reaction that he would have gotten if he'd come out to even the odds (well, vastly flip the odds, we are talking about Miz, Bo and the Axe-Man here) for Ambrose and Reigns?

    Who is so insanely shortsighted that they can't imagine the insane crowd reaction and follow-up online buzz that would have closed this Raw if the show ended with a battered but resolute Ambrose and Rollins coming down with chairs to defend Roman and have a staredown with BRAUN as the show ends?

    Like, seriously, imagine how electric that crowd is if you have Ambrose and Rollins standing over Reigns (who helped them earlier) as an intrigued Braun saunters off, all while a furious Joe looks on in the background, planning to kill all of them? They blew it - and blew it big time - years ago by racing into the Shield break-up and not having the Shield as a unit when Lesnar destroyed Cena at Summerslam. I remain convinced that, if they'd just planned a little, Brock as Unstoppable Monster who destroyed Cena finally being backed down by a Roman-led Shield would have made Roman's ascendency about 5000x easier. Now you get a chance to do it again (with the bonus of going into Summerslam with a ridiculous Brock vs. Joe vs. BRAUN vs. Shield vs. Miz & company interlocking set of feuds) and they still can't be bothered to just think.


I couldn't disagree more. Every time we have gotten any kind of Shield 'Dream Scenario or Dream Match' it's fizzled every time. Ambrose and Rollins have both sort of stalled and need each other more than Reigns needs either of them. None of the three are great on the mic and Reigns might actually have a leg up here because he talks the least. Neither Rollins nor Ambrose can touch Reigns in terms of match quality right now. So, who would be putting who over here?

I'll agree that maybe you could have done a better job of breaking up the Shield, but Reigns has blown past these two in every way. Are we all going to still hold the early Reigns push against him? It's time to get over the fact that Reigns won a Rumble that should have gone to Bryan, and Reigns said Tater Tots, and whatever folly happened to Reigns during the first year of a poorly planned push.

They have set the members of The Shield up in a way that they can get back together like Orton, Triple H and Batista for mini main event runs, but there is no way, No Freaking Way that Reigns should be running in to save Rollins and Ambrose from The Miz, Bo Dallas, and Curtis Axel. That's total madness and poor fan fic.

Roman Reigns got a match out of Joe that internet superstars Finn Balor and Shinsuke Nakamura couldn't, and you guys want him to battle the Miztourage and then I guess have Ambrose and Rollins back him up like he was Ric Flair with the Horsemen? Then what they sit ring side and run interference? Gang up and break Braun's ankle? C'mon guys I liked the Shield too, but it's not in play here. Let it go.


andy1278
Kishke








Since: 11.1.02
From: Brunswick, GA

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
AIM:  
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.53
Agreed. Sure, a random Shield return for one match would be cool, I guess.

A full reunion? No thanks. Roman is his own thing now. He's a main eventer and, boos or not, he's got that. His planet should not be aligning with the Ambrose/Rollins planet. They shouldn't be aligning together either being Rollins should be a slimy heel, but that's a different story. Roman and Braun is working. Roman with Brock has been fun several times, and Roman and Joe could work too. Let the big dog fight the big guys. I love Miz and his gang, but it doesn't help anyone to have him and Roman in the same match. They don't want fans cheering Miz, and against Roman, they are going to cheer.

I'm annoyed by the Roman megapush as everybody else, but I get it. Let the Shield die and have a random Retro Raw reunion for one night against somebody and that's it.
Dr Unlikely
Pepperoni








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 18 days
Last activity: 2 days
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.61
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    I couldn't disagree more. Every time we have gotten any kind of Shield 'Dream Scenario or Dream Match' it's fizzled every time. Ambrose and Rollins have both sort of stalled and need each other more than Reigns needs either of them. None of the three are great on the mic and Reigns might actually have a leg up here because he talks the least. Neither Rollins nor Ambrose can touch Reigns in terms of match quality right now. So, who would be putting who over here?

    I'll agree that maybe you could have done a better job of breaking up the Shield, but Reigns has blown past these two in every way. Are we all going to still hold the early Reigns push against him? It's time to get over the fact that Reigns won a Rumble that should have gone to Bryan, and Reigns said Tater Tots, and whatever folly happened to Reigns during the first year of a poorly planned push.

    They have set the members of The Shield up in a way that they can get back together like Orton, Triple H and Batista for mini main event runs, but there is no way, No Freaking Way that Reigns should be running in to save Rollins and Ambrose from The Miz, Bo Dallas, and Curtis Axel. That's total madness and poor fan fic.

    Roman Reigns got a match out of Joe that internet superstars Finn Balor and Shinsuke Nakamura couldn't, and you guys want him to battle the Miztourage and then I guess have Ambrose and Rollins back him up like he was Ric Flair with the Horsemen? Then what they sit ring side and run interference? Gang up and break Braun's ankle? C'mon guys I liked the Shield too, but it's not in play here. Let it go.


Reigns has main evented three consecutive Wrestlemanias to at best indifference and at worst outright hostility that forced them to change at least one main event on the fly. And there's zero reason to think he's not going to make it four in a row, probably against Brock again.

If they're really going to have him main event that fourth one, they need to accept that no matter what kind of matches he puts on - and I agree, he's finally where he should be and probably would have been a year and a half ago if they'd let him beat Rusev at WrestleMania 31 and work with the midcard instead of shoving him to the main event - he's still not getting the reaction they so clearly want. I'm not holding anything against Reigns, the guy. I'm holding everything against Reigns, the character, who is fundamentally broken as a character and has been through three consecutive WrestleMania main events.

So fix it. Fix him. They seem to finally realize that they wasted at least a year of Rollins by screwing up his face turn (by not actually turning him face) and are trying to fix it now. And forget that it was the Miz, Bo Dallas and Curtis Axel for a second: the crowd was cheering for Roman Reigns in that opening segment, the one thing they have been begging crowds to do for three years now, and they didn't send him out, leaving him to get booed later on.

It's got ZERO to do with Shield vs. Miztourage and EVERYTHING to do with fixing Roman Reigns the character, getting him cheered, aligning Reigns/Ambrose/Rollins against LEGIT competition like Braun, Lesnar and Joe so that everyone involved gets the kind of reaction you want from audiences and you sort out Rollins' and Reigns' character flaws (that came entirely from half-assed booking). Reigns getting the crowd's goodwill for once is GOOD. Why would you not want that, even if the plan would be to actually, finally turn him and thus make the crowd even angrier at him post-turn?

The reason to do a Shield reunion has nothing to do with short-term nostalgia and everything to do with realizing that all three guys need resolution and a reset to fix what they broke the first time around.
SKLOKAZOID
Lap cheong








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 21 hours
AIM:  
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.70
Reigns' problems as a character are too fundamental. It stretches far beyond the Royal Rumble from 3 years ago. He's always needed MAJOR character work beyond just standing next to The Rock for 5 minutes. In fact, that stuff only accentuates the problem he has.

Even last week with Joe and Brock, it was very apparent just how much Reigns is a non-factor when performers with actual personalities are in the ring with him (and Brock's a stretch and gets by on genetics, but he also has Heyman). Again, nothing to do with people liking Daniel Bryan more 3 years ago.

He lacks the fundamental quality every top guy in WWE history has always unquestionably had: acting ability.

The Shield always helped Reigns in that it hid his weaknesses. Ambrose could talk, and now Rollins has developed his own persona as well, so it would arguably be even better this time.

Of course, they just split Enzo from Cass, so it's clear that Vince is still tone deaf in how supporting characters/teammates can help prop up a guy who clearly needs it. While I'm sure Lesnar works well without Heyman, Heyman sure as hell helps.


I enjoy his work in the ring, though. That hasn't been his problem for at least a year now. But, the top babyface in WWE needs the other half of the equation. That's always going to be a thing.
dwaters
Bierwurst








Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 3 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.37
Can we give some credit to Alexa Bliss?

After Bayley hugged a child that was shown crying in the crowd, Alexa came out and did a mocking "boo-hoo" to the kid.

Such a perfect heel.
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I doubt it. Nothing has come up on 1wrestling about this, at least not yet. I think the real 1bob would have been bragging about his site.
- CajunMan, Ryder on Stern? (2002)
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