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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW 6/20 (Page 3)
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Zeruel
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
I loved and hated the show at the same time. It was cool to have three title matches, but man, all the angles.

All I have left to add that no one else has said is that I think Hassan or Benjamin is moving to Smackdown.




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Since: 17.8.03

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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
"Of course, Hassan's going to SD; that's the Land of Evil Fur'ners. Imagine the Survivor Series match with Hassan, Dupree, Suzuki, and one of the Canadians against a pro-US team. "

Fair enough, but I can't think of any Canadians on Smackdown at the moment. I had this discussion with my friend and neither of us could think of one outside of Dupree.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the reason for all these big stars moving to RAW is to make up for the loss of starpower when new World Champion HHH moves to Smackdown. There is no other option.

Lord of the Manor
Chourico








Since: 24.2.03
From: London, United Kingdom

Since last post: 581 days
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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.47
    Originally posted by rvjgd
    "Of course, Hassan's going to SD; that's the Land of Evil Fur'ners. Imagine the Survivor Series match with Hassan, Dupree, Suzuki, and one of the Canadians against a pro-US team. "

    Fair enough, but I can't think of any Canadians on Smackdown at the moment. I had this discussion with my friend and neither of us could think of one outside of Dupree.




Um, Beniot.




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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.17
I taped this show, and FF'd a lot....Carlito's entrance was a bit of a surprise- I too expected Haas, especially when Bischoff said they'd face Shelton....The match wasn't too bad, but I don't know if Carlito was the right guy to break Shelton's streak....Viscera/Simon wasn't much....Much like Mr. Heel II said, me and my friend were more expecting a midget dressed as Matt Hardy to come out rather than the actual Matt Hardy....

Cena/Hassan was strange- just a little over 2 minutes to break Hassan's win streak? Maybe they were running short on time....I think they should've waited for a PPV to give away the first Batista/Angle match, but they didn't give away too much here, in a match just over 2 minutes.



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RYDER FAKIN
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Since: 21.2.02
From: ORLANDO

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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.79
    Originally posted by Phantom
      Originally posted by SOK
      Someone in the WWE must hate Smackdown; I mean...why in the world would they move Cena, Carlito and Angle? They were three of the most entertaining wrestlers on that show.

      Smackdown better get someone really bad ass next Thursday.
      (edited by SOK on 21.6.05 0804)


    Because Smackdown’s getting moved into the “Death slot.” So they’re moving all their top promo workers to the show that will guarantee them exposure time. I’m going to predict that Thursday will probably see Shelton make the jump, and next week will see either Jericho or Christian make the jump (most likely Jericho, but basically whoever wins the WWE Title from Cena). Meanwhile, Rey will probably make the jump from Smackdown.


Keep in mind there are few weeks left of the the draft to iron things out (and several months before any time slot / network changes). One would think they would end the draft with a a bang (Batista to Smackdown - as champ, etc)...plus the rumored "switches"...I don't see Smackdown be left "decimated" or without "star power" when all is said and done. Not to mention this weekend's PPV is being front loaded for as many "buys" as people have money left for after ECW

I also don't understand the "death slot" verbiage that's being applied to Smackdown. The show survived on Thursday Comedy Night for years, with respectable ratings and no executives jumping out of windows. UPN simply made the decision to take advantage of a pending "weak best night of the week to watch TV Thursday" to debut hopefully heavy hitters for the network.

Wrestling fans will find the show. It's up to the show itself to garner new viewers. I'm sure it's been mentioned that WCW survived on Saturday Nights for 2 decades - until the "star power" quit appearing. I doubt WWE will make the same mistake, as Smackdown is their only foothold left on the networks

...and Edge rules

FLEA




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Since: 5.5.05
From: Maryland

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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.73
Am I the only one who thinks that JR talking up the WWE title is not nearly enough compensation for the way they're treating it? This is the title that Brock Lesnar took from the Rock (I believe he went Smackdown only right after that match) and defended against the Undertaker. This is the title that Hogan carried through the 80s. This is the title That JBL carried for the longest amount of time in a decade. On Smackdown, it gets respect. It's a big deal.

On RAW... it's barely more important than the intercontinental title. It's a week since the title has shown up on RAW, and the Monday before a PPV and, of all people, Hassan gets a title shot?! HASSAN? Granted, I know that isn't much better than Hardcore holly getting a shot, but at least that was built up and then went down at a PPV. They are booking the WWE title totally like it's 2nd fiddle to the world championship now, where previously it was booked as just about equal (well, maybe slightly inferior, but not much).

Ask yourself this. When was the last time a world championship match was booked mid-show on raw? Hell, when was the last time we had a world championship match on raw period? They are few and far between. WWE championship though, it gets defended in the middle of a buildup show? To what end?

I was annoyed that Carlito won the US championship his first night on Smackdown, and I'm annoyed that He won the intercontinental belt his first night on Raw. Hell, I was even annoyed that they gave Gail Kim the women's championship her first night. My point is that belts should not be used to try and get someone over. You give the belt to someone who is already over, or is rising through the ranks. Benoit was "for real" long before he got the world championship. Shelton was on his way up when he got the intercontinental title. I want to see Carlito wrestling good matches on RAW before I see him get a RAW belt.

I marked like a mother for Matt's music too. I totally called it beforehand too. I know they have the rights to Matt's music of course, but I get the feeling that they wouldn't do this unless they were at least talking to him about coming back. Think of all the times that WWE has teased us in the past few years. They've payed off most of them... albeit sometimes 4 or 6 months later.

I'm tired of viscera. I'm beyond tired of Simon dean. I miss Chickenwing (er, I mean Chris Masters), but at least My fantasy team got paid off on Victoria and Christy this week (and they get a PPV match too! I won't watch it, but I'll be raking in points!).



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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.12
At first I did expect Haas. Then I realized that Charlie Haas would be a real big letdown. Then of course Carlito came out and ruined my fantasy team.

The Matt Hardy bit was awesome. I think it was a case of the E deciding that if Matt Hardy isn't going to put things behind him (as shown by that video at thematthardyshow.com ), then they won't either. And I don't think he'll be back in the E until he shows that he's calmed down about this a little bit.

EDIT: I'm not sure that Raw is the right place for Carlito. How many times did they call him 'Carribean Cool' Carlito in that segment?

(edited by Mr. Boffo on 21.6.05 1345)


NOTE: The above post makes no sense. We apologize for the inconvenience.
SchippeWreck
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Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.95
    Originally posted by Skarecrow
    Am I the only one who thinks that JR talking up the WWE title is not nearly enough compensation for the way they're treating it?

JR's lip-service to the WWE Title started to slip a bit during the Vengeance card rundown. When he got the Hell in A Cell match, he said "And for the WORLD Heavyweight Championship" with a heavy emphasis on "World". Clearly we know which belt he thinks is more important.

    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    I'm not sure that Raw is the right place for Carlito. How many times did they call him 'Carribean Cool' Carlito in that segment?

I personally think that name order sounds more natural. That, and "Carlito Cool", which Lawler kept saying, both sound better than the awkward "Carlito Carribean Cool".



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Sector 7 Slums

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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
I just wanted to add that I was watching the wedding segment this morning, and Edge was totally mouthing Padre's words along with him.

(edited by Super Shane Spear on 21.6.05 1227)
Cerebus
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Since: 17.11.02

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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.38
I'm kinda hoping Bischoff goes and sends both Batista AND Helmsley over to Smackdown saying how he's sick of them and wants to be rid of the whole mess. That'd be interesting and it would put a belt back over to Smackdown.

Sadly, I missed Raw this week due to the hotel not having Spike. This is the first time I've run into this problem and I don't think I like it very much. They also tell me they won't be able to get me the PPV this weekend... I may need to move to another hotel.

Thanks for the vidcap KANE IS UGLY, it makes me wish I hadn't missed the show even more. And what the hell is Lita wearing? It goes by so quickly but it looked like a total white trash wedding outfit. How could the WWE do that to her on her wedding day of all things.



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Since: 7.1.02
From: Franklin, Wisconsin

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#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.12
Anybody else going to mention that Carlito is frighteningly incompetent in the ring?



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Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

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#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.59
    Originally posted by Lord of the Manor
      Originally posted by rvjgd
      "Of course, Hassan's going to SD; that's the Land of Evil Fur'ners. Imagine the Survivor Series match with Hassan, Dupree, Suzuki, and one of the Canadians against a pro-US team. "

      Fair enough, but I can't think of any Canadians on Smackdown at the moment. I had this discussion with my friend and neither of us could think of one outside of Dupree.




    Um, Beniot.


Well, the WWE wants everyone to forget that Benoit's Canadian, so the crowd won't look stupid when they chant USA! USA! during his matches. Unless the WWE has plans to turn him heel some time soon, no one on WWE TV will be calling him Canadian. And isn't Dupree "from France" in kayfabe land?

(edited by Stilton on 21.6.05 1541)


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Since: 27.2.03
From: Seattle, Washington

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#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.33
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    And what the hell is Lita wearing? It goes by so quickly but it looked like a total white trash wedding outfit. How could the WWE do that to her on her wedding day of all things.


When she first walked out, I-for a split second-wondered what in the hell was Stephanie McMahon doing out there.



"It's the four pillars of the male heterosexual psyche. We like naked women, stockings, lesbians, and Sean Connery best as James Bond because that is what being a [man] is." -Jack Davenport, Coupling
BendyStraws
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Since: 20.5.05
From: Windham, Maine

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#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
    Originally posted by TheMASKEDComputerGeek
    Anybody else going to mention that Carlito is frighteningly incompetent in the ring?


Why on earth would they?


Skarecrow - the last World title match on RAW that I recall was Edge vs. Batista several weeks ago. Before that, I believe it was Edge vs. HHH in Japan. Not too long ago, really. Besides, would you really have wanted Cena and Hassan's 2-minute scuffle to be YOUR main event? Come on, now. If the WWE title is in the hands of an extremely popular star, (which it is), it will be A-OK.
Karlos the Jackal
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

Since last post: 27 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    I just checked his wwe.com bio which lists "Finishing Move: Modified Swinging Neckbreaker." That sounds a bit like a Roll of the Dice, which, as finishers go, sucks almost as much as the Orton Overdrive.


Carlito's used the Overdrive/Play of the Day before, I'm pretty sure, so I think that's his finisher, rather than the Roll of the Dice.

--K



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Since: 17.3.02

Since last post: 2352 days
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#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.60
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    Keep in mind there are few weeks left of the the draft to iron things out (and several months before any time slot / network changes). One would think they would end the draft with a a bang (Batista to Smackdown - as champ, etc)...plus the rumored "switches"...I don't see Smackdown be left "decimated" or without "star power" when all is said and done. Not to mention this weekend's PPV is being front loaded for as many "buys" as people have money left for after ECW

    I also don't understand the "death slot" verbiage that's being applied to Smackdown. The show survived on Thursday Comedy Night for years, with respectable ratings and no executives jumping out of windows. UPN simply made the decision to take advantage of a pending "weak best night of the week to watch TV Thursday" to debut hopefully heavy hitters for the network.

    Wrestling fans will find the show. It's up to the show itself to garner new viewers. I'm sure it's been mentioned that WCW survived on Saturday Nights for 2 decades - until the "star power" quit appearing. I doubt WWE will make the same mistake, as Smackdown is their only foothold left on the networks

    ...and Edge rules

    FLEA

The “Death Slot” verbiage mainly applies to Fridays being a poor night for the Male, Age 18-29 demo that make up a large chunk of the wrestling audience. Yeah, the wrestling fanbase will know where to find it, but there’s a difference between being able to find it and being willing to put the effort in to watch it. There are simply a lot more things to do for a wrestling fan on a Friday night than stay at home and watch a main-event of Undertaker and Heidenreich vs. Randy Orton and JBL. There’s a difference between that and the Thursday Night Comedy wars. There was no comparison between WWE and the other major shows on Thursdays. They targeted a different audience than shows like Friends and Will & Grace, so it never mattered what NBC did. And there's not a whole lot of options outside of TV on Thursday nights, since most folks still have work or classes to attend on Friday.

Friday nights are a different beast, though. Those are the "socialize and party" nights, where folks are going to have more options than to sit in front of a TV. It won't be a total drop-off, but it's still going to hurt their ratings.
FurryHippie
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Since: 29.10.02
From: New York

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#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.97
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    EDIT: I'm not sure that Raw is the right place for Carlito. How many times did they call him 'Carribean Cool' Carlito in that segment?

    (edited by Mr. Boffo on 21.6.05 1345)


I'm not sure life is the right place for JR. My hatred for him is well documented, from everybody being "Jericho", to not knowing half the names of the ECW guys that invaded, to calling Charlie Haas "Renee Dupree" CONSTANTLY at the Royal Rumble, to not knowing the names of any moves....I'm rather surprised he got even CLOSE to "Carlito Carribean Cool". As long as they stick with calling him "Carlito" everything should be fine. Unless they start calling him "Jericho".
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 2 days
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#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00

    There are simply a lot more things to do for a wrestling fan on a Friday night than stay at home and watch a main-event of Undertaker and Heidenreich vs. Randy Orton and JBL.


Bad example. There is no night where anyone will stay home to watch that.

Not to over generalize, because that would be wrong, but the cliche that everyone wrestling fan is a swingin' cat who no-stops parties from Friday evening to Sunday night and wouldn't possible be around to watch wrestling during those days - well, it seems to ring less than true sometimes.

People watch RAW because they've liked a lot of stuff they saw on RAW, keep getting enough they "like/don't hate" to keep watching and they're in the habit of watching it. Same thing for SD!

The move to Friday will give them a chance to break the habit, and some people assuredly will.


    There’s a difference between that and the Thursday Night Comedy wars.


CSI and Survivor are funny, but I don't think you mean in that way.



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Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 282 days
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#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.78
    Originally posted by FurryHippie
      Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
      EDIT: I'm not sure that Raw is the right place for Carlito. How many times did they call him 'Carribean Cool' Carlito in that segment?

      (edited by Mr. Boffo on 21.6.05 1345)


    I'm not sure life is the right place for JR. My hatred for him is well documented, from everybody being "Jericho", to not knowing half the names of the ECW guys that invaded, to calling Charlie Haas "Renee Dupree" CONSTANTLY at the Royal Rumble, to not knowing the names of any moves....I'm rather surprised he got even CLOSE to "Carlito Carribean Cool". As long as they stick with calling him "Carlito" everything should be fine. Unless they start calling him "Jericho".


His full name, according to the WWE is "Carlito, Carribean Cool". Carribean Cool describes the particular kind of cool that Carlito is. J.R.'s wacky announcing annoyed me to the point where I'd rather he just call him Carlito like they did on Smackdown.



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Since: 5.5.05
From: Maryland

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#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.11
    Originally posted by BendyStraws
    Skarecrow - the last World title match on RAW that I recall was Edge vs. Batista several weeks ago. Before that, I believe it was Edge vs. HHH in Japan. Not too long ago, really. Besides, would you really have wanted Cena and Hassan's 2-minute scuffle to be YOUR main event? Come on, now. If the WWE title is in the hands of an extremely popular star, (which it is), it will be A-OK.



True enough, I forgot about Batista vs Edge. That wasn't that long ego. I vaguely remember the match in Japan as well (man that arena was huge).

My point though is that while I've come around a bit on Christian in the past few weeks... He just doesn't seem like he should be challenging for any top championship title. If he'd been matched up with shelton yesterday, I think most people would have called him the underdog. He just isn't booked as being anything more than lower midcard to midcard. Half his matches are tag matches with a partner (tomko) who is, for all intents and purposes really, a jobber. Suppose the draft was not going on, and we had but one title on RAW, the world title. Wouldn't you be just a bit suprised if Christian suddenly ended up being the number one contender for that world title next monday night? There are a half dozen wrestlers ahead of him in line for that position (Edge, loser of hhh/bastia, kane, shelton, jericho, etc).

So we can establish that Christian, as he currently stands, isn't really a top title contender. So what is he doing challenging for the WWE title? Either he's jobbing to the title, or they don't consider the WWE title a "top title" as long as the World Championship Title is around. I suppose that a third option, that they are building christian up as a real upper mid-card/title competitor, is possible... but it would go against the way they've booked him in recent weeks. Jericho will always and forever be a legitimate "last minute title contender" by virtue of being the first undisputed champion... however, much as I love Y2J, they havn't been doing a whole lot to make him look big and badass lately either. It's almost like the WWE title is being viewed as a Light heavyweight championship. Cena shows up with it, and the bookers asked each other "So who isn't really in the world title picture, but is a step above the intercontinental picture?"

Christian (and Jericho) aside, What bothers me more is Hassan getting a title shot, and that title shot being mid-show. Hassan's "win streak" consists mostly of cheat-wins and DQ-losses. He has proved nothing except that he's annoying. He is totally not worthy to be challening for the intercontinental title, much less one of the big belts.

Besides, if that had been Batista wrestling Hassan (or HHH vs Hassan, putting aside for the moment that they're both heels), the match would have been the main event for the title -or- it would have been non-title. Either make it mean something, by making it a double main event with the Batista vs Angle match, or admit up front that it's a non-title squash match. You're right that I wouldn't want Cena vs Hassan for my main event, I'm just saying that a WWE title match should always be the main event, regardless if it's RAW or PPV, unless something VERY special (on the level of Hogan vs Rock) is going on as well. It's the way you make the belt mean something, you treat it like it's THAT important.

RAW treats the World title as something very special. Matches for the title are mostly reserved for PPVs, and RAW title matches are usually pimped at least a week or two in advance. I just don't get that feeling the past two weeks about the WWE title.

I guess we all knew this would happen if you put Cena on the same show as Trips. There is no way Hunter will ever let himself play second fiddle to anyone... even his jobs are just excuses to keep himself in the world title picture (witness: losing two title matches in a row, beating up a ref, nearly getting suspended, losing the #1 contender tournament in the first round, and he's STILL getting annother shot). I'm just hoping that you're right and Cena's popularity and charisma can sustain him through the crappy booking I think he's going to be getting in the next few weeks.

I really hope that HHH wins hell-in-a-cell and gets drafted to smackdown. That will solve SO many problems all around that it probably makes too much sense for the WWE to actually do it. Send trips to SD this week, send Edge there (so the briefcase is still good) next week. Send Eddie gurrero over to RAW next week (Heel excange program), and call it a good month.

Sorry for the novel.



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