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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw 6/06 (Page 5)
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PerthHeat
Mettwurst








Since: 16.8.04
From: Perth Australia

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#81 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.25
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    "[Nitro] just happens to fit the name scheme of Joey Mercury."

    Actually it's the other way around. Joey Matthews became Joey Mercury because they didn't want people to think he was related to Josh, funnily enough.
Thanks for that save JS. I was about to post ''oh so knowingly'' that Josh Matthews won TE

On Cena , I was surprised to read the spolier and having a day or so to think about it, and read some excellent comment on it here. If you ever wanted to make an impact and to get people talking about the draft then what better way to do it than having the SD champ the first drafted.Now all the HHHaters will be avidly watching to see if HHH moves across to SD. 1 thing did occur , is this the end of SmackDown? With contracts with tv companies drawing to a close etc I wonder if VM will continue with the brand split..or is this the precurser to an ECW roster?



if you cant stand the heat...buy icecream
flairforthegold13
Kishke








Since: 1.5.03
From: Gainesville, FL.

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#82 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.88
Okay, moving Cena to Raw may be the dumbest thing ever.
I have to assume this is a bait and switch, b/c now it seems like they're trying to kill off Smackdown (not that I'd blame them, after getting the Friday death slot, they may want to move their hottest property to the flagship show.)
However, this does reinforce SD as the Number #2 brand.

It'd be idiotic for Cena to lose the title to anyone at this point, especially the non-drawing Jericho, in order for the belt to be switched back to SD.

I guess they could move Batista over, (though then we have the annoying title name issue---i.e. SD is the home of the 'WWE belts'--wwe championship, wwe tag champs--while Raw is the 'World titles.'

it'd really annoy me if the WWE title is on the same show as the World tag titles, but I'm getting really finicky.

I was wondering what happened to Christian York myself (also, off topic, what happened to Reckless Youth and Steve Bradley--as I remember names from the Indy section of PWI.)

Regarldess, I'm not a Cena fan but he was the TOP STAR of Smackdown, moving him just kills that brand even moreso. It's been a long climb back since Lesnar left and just when it seemed the brand was gaining momentum (and off a hot PPV)
they have Cena's jump be treated as the third most important thing on Raw (behind the contract and ECW)

Let's hope that this is rectified soon. There's no guy besides HHH that's comparable in value to a brand right now.


fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

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#83 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.80
Kurt Angle and Eric Bischoff are buddy-buddy in storyline terms now so it'd make sense for Teddy Long (babyface) to ship Kurt Angle and maybe Carlito to RAW for Cena. Angle and Michaels are likely to wind up on the same show. Orton should be moving to Smackdown to feud with Undertaker.

The whole month is a bunch of meaningless hotshotting. What really matters is who is where when the month is over because whatever they do on a week to week basis is just short-term nonsense.



"When did they pass a law that says the people who make my sandwich have to be wearing gloves? I'm not comfortable with this. I don't want glove residue all over my food; it's not sanitary. Who knows where these gloves have been?" - George Carlin
J. Kyle
Boudin blanc








Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

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#84 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.69
X-E's co-Worst Poster of all time! JKyle.com says:

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    I wouldn't feel so compelled to respond to the very Angry Johnny if this didn't come so far out of left field.
It wasn't so out of left field as it was a response to the Cena debate in the beginning of this thread.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro

    "Cena is the subject of the most blatant silver spoon stuck in mouth that isn't BROCK."

    Yes, getting over = being handed everything. (And Brock was great too in his own ways. I'm sorry the company hasn't been built around Christian and Molly Holly feuding for the world title.)
A)Being pushed and almost shoved until he was over DOES= handed everything. Obviously he's got the right amount of charisma to make it work and is decent enough enough in the ring so his push doesn't get the Chris Masters reaction, but don't tell me he wasn't protected.

B)Hey I was BROCK fan #1. But his meteor push was pretty obvious. Push Christian like they've pushed Cena and he'd be just over with the marks. This is not a case like Benoit where you can argue he's a smark chosen one for workrate alone.

Christian IS a better worker than Cena (and Edge but that's a tangent).

Christian can go on the mic. If they were to hand him everything at least WM would've been INTERESTING.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    "He was fed Jericho,"

    Yeah so? And then he did nothing for the rest of the calendar year, despite this apparently neverending push he's been on since he showed up.
Where did I say "never-ending push"? I said protected. Silver spoon in mouth.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    "protected against everyone else,"

    Yes, like Undertaker.
If Jesus was signed (the one from Nazareth not Carlito's old bodyguard) he'd lay down for Taker. Hell even purportedly invincible HHH had to.

At least BROCK lay siege to the heavy hitters after a while. Forgive me if I'm not impressed by Cena's destruction of Dupree (had to carry Cena), Jordan (HORRIBLE matches), and Jesus (Carlito's friend not the one from Nazareth).

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    "fed Show,"

    So?
That's not much of a counterpoint is it? You could've at least pointed out Show gets fed to everyone on their way up just like Jericho gets fed to the up and comers. I honestly can't tell if you were really trying to respond or just trying to insult my intelligence.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro

    "and then given the oh so intimidating APA to triumph over for the title."

    ...
...

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    "Meanwhile he's given the rap gimmick to run with while hip hop's popularity was still strong, if waning."

    Good gracious. Yes, he was 'given' it by virtue of dressing up as Vanilla Ice for the Halloween Party Smackdown, doing a rap as a joke, and the schtick unexpectedly catching it on huge.
They saw him as a rapper... then told him to be rapper... golly but I'd define that as they GAVE THE GIMMICK TO HIM after they got the idea from the party.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    "The crowd was DEAD at WM."

    And crowd response to a single match means everything forever! Did you watch Judgment Day?
A) At WM the crowd should be on fire unless it's a tag turmoil match or the Bull Buchanon match. (P.S. Don't get on me for hating on Bull as he was a favorite of mine despite his lack of reaction. And at least no one told me he was the most over guy in the company.

B) No JD for me, but I have heard good things about that match. I pick on Bradshaw but he is a damn good brawler so it doesn't surprise me the match got a reaction because of that, the fact that Cena was probably busting ass to avoid more dead silence like the one at WM, and the fact it was a SmackDown PPV.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    "Aside from last Raw I haven't even seen Cena get RVD-at-the-start-of-InVasion heat."

    Do you watch Smackdown?
Yup. And I can tell when a crowd reaction is being sweetened. When it isn't, he's still not the most over guy.

That's Eddie. Not to mention Angle. Both get reactions that dwarf Cena's.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    "Christian SERVED him at the Rumble, has been calling him out for weeks but is ignored b/c Cena has more important threats"

    Psst it's a work.
Well isn't that the most compelling argument since "Wrestling is fake."

See I was just guilty of what you did. You ignored my point to make a jab at my expense.

By taking out the Michael Cole comment and everything after that quote is almost out of context.

That was merely kicking off and leading to my explanation of how they progressed the story after he and Christian actually came face to face again. "Shitty punch after shitty punch" is not exactly how I'd hoped it would go down.
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    "Some people confuse "They want Cena to be the Rock" with "Cena is the next Rock.""

    While he's far from the Rock, it's really important to remember there was an astronomical difference in the Rock from 1999 who was still learning and improving in all facets, and the all-time great all-around performer that he developed into the subsequent two years.
It is important to remember what you said. But Cena still isn't Rock.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    "Is John Cena over? Oh yes. Very over. But it's all hype."

    'Some' people apparently confuse "John Cena isn't really over" with "John Cena is really over." I mean garsh, him not being your cup of tea is one thing, because he's definitely got his weaknesses. But if you refuse to see the change in he and can't acknowledge or discern any positives in what Cena has done, especially in 2005, you're not very fair/accurate at 'analyzing' pro wrestling, sorry.
The exact words, earlier in the thread were "Cena is the next Rock." They irritated me, I refuted it. I don't hate Cena. I don't even dislike him. I laughed a lot during his rap Monday. It's what happened after that bothered me.

I never set out to point out Cena's strengths. They weren't relative to my point. My point wasn't intended to be a look at John Cena. My point was "This is why Cena isn't the Rock" as well as "Boy the end of the Highlight reel sucked."

I wasn't writing a column or an essay I was making a post.

And rather than meet or counter most of my statements you just dismissed me and in as many words called me a piss poor analyst.

Slightly rude.



I post a new comic strip every Monday AND Friday. Please read kind sir.
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

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#85 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.04
    Originally posted by Skarecrow


    My guess is that Hunter will be drafted to Smackdown before vengeance, thus putting extra weight on the HiaC match. If Hunter IS drafted, then it's damn near a guarantee that he'll be going over Batista at vengeance... and about time I say. I am no fan of hunters, but Batista STILL feels like a feel-good, place-holding, one-timer of a champion. Maybe I'm the only one, but I always thought Randy had twice the charisma and ring savvy that Dave has.
    (edited by Skarecrow on 7.6.05 1820)


Actually, one of the two being drafted to Smackdown before Vengeance could lead to an interesting battle-within-the-match where Smackdown stars try to help whoever was drafted so they have a title to go after. If HHH is drafted to Smackdown it could put a face in the position of helping HHH win so he can have a world title to fight for. Vice versa, if Batista is drafted you could have a scenario where Kurt Angle helps him keep the belt so he can challenge him next on Smackdown.
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 1 day
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#86 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.13
    Originally posted by AngryJohnny
    A)Being pushed and almost shoved until he was over DOES= handed everything. Obviously he's got the right amount of charisma to make it work and is decent enough enough in the ring so his push doesn't get the Chris Masters reaction, but don't tell me he wasn't protected.


I'm not sure what you mean here. If they've got plans for him (BIG plans) than it would be stupid NOT to protect him.

I remember watching the WWE shows for the past couple years. When Cena started the Homeboy outfit, people took to it. The WWE never shoved it down anyone's throats. They've pushed the guy over the course of a couple years, and always a couple months behind what the masses (even most people here, who are usually the most critical of non-Japanese-trained people getting pushed) thought they should do with him. People were screaming that he should be US champ, and couple months later he was. Then people were demanding that he beat JBL for the title, and he did after a while. Being 'shoved down our throats' would require something like him winning the title when still getting luke-warm reactions and beating everyone in an effort to make people think he is better than he really is. I saw him live when he lost the US championship and he was friggin over as anyone ever has been. The guy's not just 'making it work' like you say. Heidenreich is 'making his gimmick work'. Cena's making himself a star with it.

And whether or not it's based on hype is irrelevant. I mean, this entire business is nothing but hype! Hype is the reason that ANYONE is over. Someone's hype is from his moonsault, someone else's is their ability to take dish out abuse, someone else's is the fact that he slept with his good friend's girlfriend, and Cena's is his mic work and charisma.


Tribal Prophet
Juggalo101
Italian








Since: 27.4.04
From: Atlanta

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#87 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.53
    Originally posted by flairforthegold13
    It'd be idiotic for Cena to lose the title to anyone at this point, especially the non-drawing Jericho, in order for the belt to be switched back to SD.





I disagree there. Jericho has the potential of getting just as a big of a pop as Cena gets, but what chance has the WWE gave him? Giving the belt to him for 3 months and putting him in some idiotic feud involving Stephanie & Trips. Since Wrestlemania X8, he's been in the same exact position every night; which is re-capturing and again losing the Intercontinental title. While many people are still questioning Cena's mic work and charisma, Jericho has proved on several occasions to be a natural at it. The Fozzy comment last night absolutely had the crowd rolling at the beginning of the show. If Jericho added just a little bit of muscle to himself he wouldn't look so tiny next to the likes of JBL or the Undertaker.





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J. Kyle
Boudin blanc








Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

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#88 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.69
X-E's co-Worst Poster of all time! JKyle.com says:

    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
      Originally posted by AngryJohnny
      A)Being pushed and almost shoved until he was over DOES= handed everything. Obviously he's got the right amount of charisma to make it work and is decent enough enough in the ring so his push doesn't get the Chris Masters reaction, but don't tell me he wasn't protected.


    I'm not sure what you mean here. If they've got plans for him (BIG plans) than it would be stupid NOT to protect him.

    I remember watching the WWE shows for the past couple years. When Cena started the Homeboy outfit, people took to it. The WWE never shoved it down anyone's throats. They've pushed the guy over the course of a couple years, and always a couple months behind what the masses (even most people here, who are usually the most critical of non-Japanese-trained people getting pushed) thought they should do with him. People were screaming that he should be US champ, and couple months later he was. Then people were demanding that he beat JBL for the title, and he did after a while. Being 'shoved down our throats' would require something like him winning the title when still getting luke-warm reactions and beating everyone in an effort to make people think he is better than he really is. I saw him live when he lost the US championship and he was friggin over as anyone ever has been. The guy's not just 'making it work' like you say. Heidenreich is 'making his gimmick work'. Cena's making himself a star with it.

    And whether or not it's based on hype is irrelevant. I mean, this entire business is nothing but hype! Hype is the reason that ANYONE is over. Someone's hype is from his moonsault, someone else's is their ability to take dish out abuse, someone else's is the fact that he slept with his good friend's girlfriend, and Cena's is his mic work and charisma.


    Tribal Prophet
Well my wording was ALMOST shoved. They did pace themselves well enough with Cena, probably having learned from BROCK.

I easily concede the heat point to you if that's what you've seen... and if you've seen the people (Austin, Rock, Foley, Hogan) who he's being compared to live.



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Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

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#89 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06
Man, you are out of your damn mind if you think Cena's not over. Whether or not you personally like him, Cena is easily the most over guy on either roster. Not just from the audio, but WATCH the crowd when he comes out. People leap to their feet. Watch him when he goes through the crowd. I saw a girl crying because she got to touch him. Touch him. Wrestlers do not normally get this reaction. Love him or hate him, Cena is going to be the guy to carry this company for quite a while, mark my words.
The Sham
Kolbasz








Since: 20.1.02
From: Hamden, CT

Since last post: 1642 days
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#90 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.31
I think a lot of people here aren't familiar with who exactly came out of Tough Enough. There were six winners, and Maven was the only one with any credible wrestling push until Nitro came back for his current run.

TE I
Winner: Maven. Currently Jobber to the Stars, but gets an angle every once in a while.
Winner: Nidia. Fired. Awesome valet, but apparently not pretty enough for Vince.
Loser: Josh Matthews. Smackdown interview go to guy.
Loser: "Harvard" Chris Nowinski. Injured. I don't think he's returning to the ring, but he's always at WWE press conferences they don't care enough to send big names to.

TE II
Winner: Jackie Gayda. Apparent Smackdown diva.
Winner: Linda Miles. Sent to OVW from high profile Smackdown valet duty as Shaniqua. Don't know where she is now.
Loser: Matt Morgan. Currently on his second tour of duty on Smackdown, but we're not supposed to remember the first one (or Nathan Jones).
Loser: Jessie. Appeared as an intern or stage hand on RAW quite a few times, but I haven't seen her around lately.

TE III
Winner: John Hennigan. Introduced on RAW as Biscoff's assistant, Johnny Blaze. Marvel owns that trademark (Ghost Rider), so he called himself Johnny Storm the following week. Marvel owns that one, too (Human Torch). WWE checked to see which words they had trademarked, and went with Nitro the third week. Redebuted as part of MNM on Smackdown and currently holds tag title.
Winner: Matt Cappotelli. Had to be given the win after Bob Holly beat the holy crap out of him in a practice match. Currently in OVW.

My point, and the reason I post this here is that Maven may have won a contest, but that contest hasn't proved to be a path to instant stardom or a ridiculous push for anyone. He won his contract, but he's had to earn his place in the company, and he's certainly not in a position where even his contract is guaranteed anymore.



HBK: —HOLY SHIT! WHAT'S WITH ALL THESE FUCKING GEESE?—
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J. Kyle
Boudin blanc








Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

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#91 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.29
X-E's co-Worst Poster of all time! JKyle.com says:

    Originally posted by Tenken347
    Man, you are out of your damn mind if you think Cena's not over.
I just said something along the lines of "he isn't as over as the people who've crowned him Masshiah."

Actually I just said he's not the most over. And he isn't.

That can change in time, and again his promos are entertaining and a good portion of the marks do seem to love him.

(edited by AngryJohnny on 7.6.05 1250)


I post a new comic strip every Monday AND Friday. Please read kind sir.
Kevintripod
Andouille








Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

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#92 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.71
    Originally posted by The Sham
      Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
      They've never really clarified how it works. I'm under the impression it is each GM picking specifically who they want, and until I see the big tumbler full of balls, that's what I'm going with.


    Well, actually, they did clarify how it works. It's a LOTTERY, with names drawn at random. Here are the specifics:

    http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/2005draftnew1_0516.jsp


I'm with you Spaceman.....I was always under the impression that the GM's were picking whoever they wanted too.

Well this sure takes away alot of the excitement of the draft for me. Doing the draft this way just means that most of the "random draft picks" are going to be mid-carders and jobbers that most people won't care less about whether they go to Raw or Smackdown.



"This just got a hell of a lot better." - Stifler, American Pie
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

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#93 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.04
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
    I'm with you Spaceman.....I was always under the impression that the GM's were picking whoever they wanted too.

    Well this sure takes away alot of the excitement of the draft for me. Doing the draft this way just means that most of the "random draft picks" are going to be mid-carders and jobbers that most people won't care less about whether they go to Raw or Smackdown.


Nahhh, there's no way they'd ever do that. It would completely take the drama out of it and would be incredibly stupid if the GM could take anybody. They'd essentially be taking each other's champions in such a situation.

What would likely work, though, is if they do it like a sports expansion draft: Each brand can protect, say, five people, from being drafted, and can protect one more person after each draft pick. That way they could at least start feuds over who's going to be the last protected pick on each show, make it a competition.

The negative to that, however, is that it would assure that no "big names" switch shows. Unless, I suppose, someone would piss off a GM or win some handicap match that states he can't be protected in the draft if he wins.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
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#94 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.46
"I don't hate Cena. I don't even dislike him. ... I never set out to point out Cena's strengths. They weren't relative to my point. My point wasn't intended to be a look at John Cena. ... And rather than meet or counter most of my statements you just dismissed me and in as many words called me a piss poor analyst. Slightly rude."

I definitely apologize for the smarm. I was just kind of taken aback by the laundry list of innocuous things that it seemed like were holding against John and his push. I was more surprised than trying to be a dick, but obviously it resulted in way more dickheadedness than surprise.


"A)Being pushed and almost shoved until he was over DOES= handed everything."

I don't think it does. He basically made his own push by getting over doing the raps for comedy. He was already really over when they earmarked him as the future face of the company.


"Obviously he's got the right amount of charisma to make it work and is decent enough enough in the ring so his push doesn't get the Chris Masters reaction, but don't tell me he wasn't protected."

Absolutely he was protected -- there's a reason he didn't challenge for the WWE title for over a year before Mania 21, and it was because they wanted to preserve his title chase and coronation. He was also always kept strong as a babyface, since, well, that's what you do with guys you intend to push. But I don't think that equates silver spoon ...


"Where did I say "never-ending push"? I said protected. Silver spoon in mouth."

... because he earned his position by getting over himself. They called up Cena in summer 2002 with the intention of making a fresh star, but within a few weeks they totally gave up on what they started. The Hungry Rookie In Tights John Cena was on his way to being another Doug Basham and was on Velocity wrestling the Reverend D-Von. He was programmed with Billy Kidman at the time he fell into the rapper gimmick and took off -- not exactly silver spoon stuff. He resurrected his push and the company got behind him again, but in increments. In 2003 he was one of the top heels and a guy on the rise, but he was still losing his big matches with Undertaker and Angle. It wasn't until 2004 that you could say he was their golden boy, because that's when they decided that he was the probable guy who'd be chasing and winning the title at the next Wrestlemania.


"'Was fed Show.' So?'
That's not much of a counterpoint is it?"

What I meant was, I didn't understand how it was a point to begin with. How does beating the Big Show, as a babyface, in the blowoff to your feud, at Wrestlemania, right before Show was taking time off for surgery, an indication that he had a silver spoon in his mouth? It's not quite going over the Undertaker (Lesnar) or Mick Foley (Orton).


"They saw him as a rapper... then told him to be rapper... golly but I'd define that as they GAVE THE GIMMICK TO HIM after they got the idea from the party."

But who made it work? It's not like Stephanie McMahon said "Daaaaaaaaaaad, guess what. I just saw 8 Mile and I've come up with the gimmick of our next big star: rap-music singing man! Now, I've narrowed the choices down to either John Cena or Rico. It's a big decision, because whoever gets this big break is sure to be headlining by Wrestlemania 21."


"Yup. And I can tell when a crowd reaction is being sweetened. When it isn't, he's still not the most over guy."

If you insist. Whatever the case, my point would just be that I strongly object to the idea that he's gotten everything handed to him, which is what I take from 'silver spoon.' While it's true that he was seen as a guy with potential in OVW because of his body and mic skills, he definitely had to get himself over before the company ever really got behind him. And aside from his two biggest weaknesses, his mediocrity in-ring and his dare I say poopy interviews as a face in 2004, Cena's rise to the top has actually been a pretty nice success story, IMO. One made even nicer by the fact that he seems to be clicking remarkably well as champion.


"That was merely kicking off and leading to my explanation of how they progressed the story after he and Christian actually came face to face again. "Shitty punch after shitty punch" is not exactly how I'd hoped it would go down."

As incredible as Christian has been since Mania, I think his cutting promos on Cena created some unrealistic expectations for how much the company was going to be getting behind him. Namely, that if they were really setting him up as anything more than an entertaining confrontation for Cena, he wouldn't have been doing jobs to Kane and Ric Flair and the interim.

Plus, bad punches aside, I think they could've booked it a lot worse. I wouldn't have the top face getting laid out in his first appearance, and the feud is continuing to next week. If they really want to go to John Cena vs. Christian on PPV, Christian can get the heat on him then. Realistically I think you're looking at Cena vs. Christian as a TV match as the setup for a bigger angle (Jericho turn?).
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 222 days
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#95 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.03
Justin, the Cena t-shirts were pretty damn close to the biggest sellers at the Calgary RAW. Also, when Christian mentioned him the crowd was LOUD, both positively and negatively. He's over. Frighteningly so, and in spite of his supposed lack of in-ring abilities.

Like you said, they booked him very, very carefully over the past two years. He's beaten most of the top guys cleanly, and had his losses be almost exclusively by cheating or heelishness. Then again, Benoit's been booked the exact same way. Why isn't everyone decrying his push?



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BigSteve
Pepperoni








Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 2758 days
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#96 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.69
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    As incredible as Christian has been since Mania, I think his cutting promos on Cena created some unrealistic expectations for how much the company was going to be getting behind him. Namely, that if they were really setting him up as anything more than an entertaining confrontation for Cena, he wouldn't have been doing jobs to Kane and Ric Flair and the interim.


I don't disagree that Christian isn't going to become champ and may not be a guy that they build around in the future (though I think they'd be stupid not to ride his momentum and see how far he can go), but jobbing Christian out isn't a huge deal, IMO. Even if he does somehow become a main event heel in the coming months and years, it's not like he's all of the sudden going to be winning tons of matches. He'll always be the little bastard that squeaks out his wins and makes up for his losses with his superior mic work that will make you want to see him get his ass kicked again the next week.

    Originally posted by Angry Johnny
    Yup. And I can tell when a crowd reaction is being sweetened. When it isn't, he's still not the most over guy.

    That's Eddie. Not to mention Angle. Both get reactions that dwarf Cena's.


Hey, I probably like Cena less than you do and less than most people do, but there's no way that he isn't the most over guy in the company right now. I don't know whether they have any canned noise being put in on the tapings for Cena's reaction, but if you read any of the live reports that people send in to various web sites, it always seems like they say that Cena was ridiculously over. Eddie's pretty over, but I'm willing to bet that Cena gets more of a reaction than him.

    Originally posted by Angry Johnny
    A)Being pushed and almost shoved until he was over DOES= handed everything. Obviously he's got the right amount of charisma to make it work and is decent enough enough in the ring so his push doesn't get the Chris Masters reaction, but don't tell me he wasn't protected.

    B)Hey I was BROCK fan #1. But his meteor push was pretty obvious. Push Christian like they've pushed Cena and he'd be just over with the marks. This is not a case like Benoit where you can argue he's a smark chosen one for workrate alone.


Of course he was protected. Is that really a bad thing? In fact, he was protected a lot less than most of the guys that have come up in recent years. Like Justin pointed out, he was never really given the big win over the huge, huge superstar, and hell, you even pointed out that the guy he beat for the title was friggin' Bradshaw. What they did right was they didn't rush Cena too fast, they didn't give him the huge win until they were ready to follow up on it, and at the same time, they made sure to put him in feuds with lesser guys that he could go over strong as he worked his way up the card. To me, that is exactly what they should be doing for all of their stars, with the rare exception of a Brock Lesnar. (The guy that is getting the exact opposite of the Cena push is Carlito. I love his schtick, but he's being programmed with the top guys before he's ready).

As for Christian, we'll probably never know. I like Christian more than I like Cena, but I think that the fans just have that connection with Cena that they don't have with most other wrestlers. He has that "It factor" that you really can't define.
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Since: 5.5.05
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#97 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96
I really don't think the powers-that-be have yet picked a main event heel to take HHH's spot in a few years. Who's on the drawing board, really? Orton and Edge are the standouts, but I don't think Carlito and Christian are far behind. I really would not be surprised to see Christian in the smarmy top heel role eventually on one of the two shows. It works. Look what it did for Jericho until Trips came back off the injured list and wanted his title back. He was a great smarmy heel champion. Edge and Orton will heel/face turn a number of times over the next few years (Edge more often than Orton I think), but Christian and Carlito really have that "career heel" feel to them.

They will pick up on Christian's heat soon enough. It took them months to notice both Eddie and Cena were getting monster over. It took them years to pay off Benoit. Don't give up on Vince noticing talent that isn't 6'11" and 300lbs just yet. He's hard-headed for sure, but not completely blind.



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Since: 21.2.02
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#98 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.29
X-E's co-Worst Poster of all time! JKyle.com says:

*extends olive branch to Justin*

I, as I said before, was asking for a pull apart or a little more offense before Christian and Tomko. Nothing could be less healthy than Cena not getting the upper hand in his debut.

However, this reminds me a lot of the Jericho "Greenberg" angle. They shouldn't let people have free reign if they're not gonna put any faith behind them.

As you said, Christian's been jobbing to Kane, Flair, etc.

I'd still argue that Eddie is more over due to the pre-turn chants that used to start on SD in segments that had little to do with Eddie.

As for Vince not being blind, well sure Jericho, Benoit, and Eddie were on top for a good amount of time.

Out of those three, Benoit was the one who came out looking the best, Eddie wasn't scathed too badly but he must've got amnesia after teaming with Rey because his blood lust for JBL just vanished.

And Jericho... well he was a joke as a champion and he's just now getting momentum again.

All 3 were on top and then shuffled very quickly to the midcard again. I'd like better than that for Christian.



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Since: 17.3.02

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#99 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.00
    Originally posted by flairforthegold13
    Okay, moving Cena to Raw may be the dumbest thing ever.
    I have to assume this is a bait and switch, b/c now it seems like they're trying to kill off Smackdown (not that I'd blame them, after getting the Friday death slot, they may want to move their hottest property to the flagship show.)
    However, this does reinforce SD as the Number #2 brand.

    It'd be idiotic for Cena to lose the title to anyone at this point, especially the non-drawing Jericho, in order for the belt to be switched back to SD.

    I guess they could move Batista over, (though then we have the annoying title name issue---i.e. SD is the home of the 'WWE belts'--wwe championship, wwe tag champs--while Raw is the 'World titles.'

Nah. It opens up options. Does Cena get drafted back, or will the Raw champ get moved over instead? Do they have a champion vs. champion match? Will Smackdown run a tourney to establish their own champion?

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    As incredible as Christian has been since Mania, I think his cutting promos on Cena created some unrealistic expectations for how much the company was going to be getting behind him. Namely, that if they were really setting him up as anything more than an entertaining confrontation for Cena, he wouldn't have been doing jobs to Kane and Ric Flair and the interim.
Christian’s current role is basically the same one that Cena had when he started his current gimmick, with Tyson Tomko in the role of B-Squared. Cena spent a lot of time getting jobbed out to the main eventers (losing feuds to Brock, Undertaker, and Angle) before his babyface push began at Survivor Series, and he was getting face reactions to his heel promos just like Christian is now. Christian’s not getting any wins, but he’s getting a lot more face time and holding his own with the top guys. This will help people buy into him as a legit contender when the time comes.



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