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The W - Pro Wrestling - [RAW] 5/9/2005 (Page 3)
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Lexus
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

Since last post: 6 days
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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.33
I confess, I watched Raw last night for the first time in ages.

First off, Viscera. I guess I don't get it, but what's the deal? From what I could tell, he's just an enormous guy in weird clothes with a blonde mohawk and contacts who has a penchant for stealing people's nachos and hits on attractive women. He's a lot like my grandfather prior to his stroke, now that I think about it.

The sheer lapse in logic on behalf of Edge. I know that when I have important documentation, like W2 forms, or bills, I stash them in a safe place, like a desk. I certainly do not put them in an obvious black case that my numerous enemies can recognize and may steal from me.

Ric Flair is older than dirt, but his legs are still ten times more muscular than Tyson Tomko's chicken legs. Put that man in some Diesel pants!

Hunter Helmsley is supposed to be high profile, but he has facial hair that even the crudest of rednecks would shun.

Kane kicks ass. Still.

Benoit is now jobber to the stars. See, wasn't it funner to cheer for him before, when he never held any titles and was put into angles, not just random matches?

When booking comes down to a tournament to garner interest, it's pretty sad. Nobody really hates Batista, I guess. You'd think somebody would mess with him, since he's a face champion and all, but he spent all his night in comfort without fear of a heel.

I could've swore Micheals had a herpes sore on his lip during his interview prior to his match. His getting stuck on the stage made us all wonder if he was drunk, or possibly the WWE was going to delve into a Magneto character.

THANK GOD THE WWE HASN'T TAKEN THE OBVIOUS STUPID PATH OF TURNING ROSEY AGAINST HURRICANE.

The only people I could tell were 100% heel were La Resistance, who aren't even heels in Quebec. Thus, they're only 95% heel. Christian was teasing Flair and HHH, who are heels. Again, if these heels started actually going after faces, it might get good. Oh wait, Edge makes crazy faces now, so he's 80% heel.

Best bit of the night: ECW add.

Oh, if you're wondering about surefire ways that people can get over, usually switching to a different company worked. Shame TNA sucks.



Hold nothing sacred and you'll never be dissapointed. Especially not this statement.
darkmatcher
Bockwurst








Since: 12.2.03
From: New York, USA

Since last post: 2585 days
Last activity: 1661 days
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.37
Really HMD, by amazing I just meant highly amusing. Perhaps I could have used that instead, but I'm big on Michaels delivery and facial expressions so, I tend to use kind of exaggerated terms to describe my enjoyment of him.

(edited by darkmatcher on 10.5.05 2333)
sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 1883 days
Last activity: 584 days
#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.64
    Originally posted by Torchslasher
      Originally posted by Kevintripod
        Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
        Stacy's a bit of a dogface these days, was that gradual or was I just never paying attention?


      Whaaaaaaat ???


    Don't worry, HMD is just trolling on us again. Like when he insulted one of the few female posters on here earlier in his post. Really, that toaster bit was out of line, imo.

    Anyways, I'm very worried about Shelton Benjamin. He does some of the most amazing moves I've seen, and has a MOTY candidate with HBK last week. Then, he saves Y2J from Hassan and Daivari early on in the night.

    When he is announced as the guy facing Rob Conway later in this episode of Raw, the crowd just sits on their hands again. Everybody in the WWE is trying to get the fans to care about the guy. Even the fickle IWC is on the bandwagon, but most of the marks could care less.

    I for one don't know what can be done after all this to get Shelton over. Perhaps a very personal feud (with a HEEL) will help as others have suggested. Other than Shelton getting one hundred times better in the charisma category, I don't see this working, however great Shelton is in the ring.


You pretty much hit the nail right on the head. It's sad, but until Shelton gets a personality, no one is going to care about him. After all, we all know that the average fan does not base his/her opinion of a wrestler on workrate.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.55
    Originally posted by sentonBOMB
    You pretty much hit the nail right on the head. It's sad, but until Shelton gets a personality, no one is going to care about him. After all, we all know that the average fan does not base his/her opinion of a wrestler on workrate.


I disagree. I think a guy who can perform in the ring is more immediately accesible to a majority of the audience than a guy who banks on a catchphrse and character type. Shelton is taking the right tactic of springboarding and leaping like a luchadore to garner more attention, even if I also worry about him hurting himself.

And in regards to the Shelton character Ross is trying to sell, as a South Carolina native, he's not getting anywhere with me by mentioning the mean streets of Orangeburg. They're no meaner than any other small town backstreets across the country. It's hardly our epicentre of dastardly deeds. He'd be better off to remind everyone of Shelton's initial success against Triple H and maybe the chair walloping on Snitsky.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Phantom
Frankfurter








Since: 17.3.02

Since last post: 2284 days
Last activity: 2261 days
#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.23
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by sentonBOMB
      You pretty much hit the nail right on the head. It's sad, but until Shelton gets a personality, no one is going to care about him. After all, we all know that the average fan does not base his/her opinion of a wrestler on workrate.


    I disagree. I think a guy who can perform in the ring is more immediately accesible to a majority of the audience than a guy who banks on a catchphrse and character type.
Tell that to Hulk Hogan or John Cena.

A guy doesnít necessarily have to light the world on fire with his promos to get the crowd behind him (see Benoit, Chris), but he needs to be able to convey to an audience what heís about when given the opportunity. Sheltonís dynamite in the ring. But he struggles to get his persona across while on the mic, and he always seems to have an expression of shocked disbelief on his face while cutting a promo.



JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 41 min.
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.46
What the butt. People already care about him, he's fine, and fans cheering Jericho over him or one tepid crowd crowd reaction is not exactly anything to start a discussion of Nigh-Pointless Generalities About Successful Wrestlers or "WOE IS THE WORKRATE, this just ain't workin' out :(." I'm not trying to be rude, I just wantcha to be calm. Frankie Kazarian says relax.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 48 min.
Last activity: 48 min.
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.03
    Originally posted by darkmatcher
    Really HMD, by amazing I just meant highly amusing. Perhaps I could have used that instead, but I'm big on Michaels delivery and facial expressions so, I tend to use kind of exaggerated terms to describe my enjoyment of him.

    (edited by darkmatcher on 10.5.05 2333)


I was half-joking, no "troll" intended. And I meant what I said about Stacy too, her face just isn't that attractive to me. I think most of the divas are prettier.



Hot Virgins-The World's Most Steadily Shrinking Commodity
Pizza Delivery Jones
Chourico








Since: 27.6.04

Since last post: 774 days
Last activity: 702 days
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.86
Lexus: "Hunter Helmsley is supposed to be high profile, but he has facial hair that even the crudest of rednecks would shun."

The beard is high profile. Lemmy Kilmister has been sporting it for decades and he's on top of the metal world...
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 214 days
Last activity: 185 days
#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.02
    Originally posted by Pizza Delivery Jones
    Lexus: "Hunter Helmsley is supposed to be high profile, but he has facial hair that even the crudest of rednecks would shun."

    The beard is high profile. Lemmy Kilmister has been sporting it for decades and he's on top of the metal world...


Not to mention multi-time NWA Champion Harley Race.



DVDs; Blog

Torchslasher
Knackwurst








Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 288 days
Last activity: 255 days
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.75
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    What the butt. People already care about him, he's fine, and fans cheering Jericho over him or one tepid crowd crowd reaction is not exactly anything to start a discussion of Nigh-Pointless Generalities About Successful Wrestlers or "WOE IS THE WORKRATE, this just ain't workin' out :(." I'm not trying to be rude, I just wantcha to be calm. Frankie Kazarian says relax.


Dude, have you been watching the shows for the last three months? I'll try to relax, but I just see that Shelton has gotten little reaction almost everywhere he goes (on TV). This is not one crowd reaction. I love the guy, and I'm not trying to deal with generalities of the overall worth of quality wrestlers. It just seems like in the case of Shelton specifically, he can't get a break with most of the Raw crowds.

I have to look at the Jericho feud. We're talking about Y2J, a guy who hasn't had a World Title match in three years. He has been a midcarder with no real direction for quite some time. He has lost numerous matches.

Shelton Benjamin has gone over almost the entire Raw roster. He is a long reigning IC champ. He has done moves that nobody has ever seen.

So, how does the crowd react to a feud between a midcarder with a huge number of losses, and a wrestler with a stellar win-loss record? They cheer the hell out of Jericho, and root for him almost 100 percent. This feud told me that Shelton still hasn't won the marks over.

If Shelton can't do it with his ringwork, he and the WWE will have to figure out how to do it with the other aspects of the business. I just don't know if the WWE has the patience to continue to devote to this project.



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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 2 days
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#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.55
    Originally posted by Freeway420
      Originally posted by Pizza Delivery Jones
      Lexus: "Hunter Helmsley is supposed to be high profile, but he has facial hair that even the crudest of rednecks would shun."

      The beard is high profile. Lemmy Kilmister has been sporting it for decades and he's on top of the metal world...


    Not to mention multi-time NWA Champion Harley Race.


Lenny's on top of Harley Race? What a foul, foul image, sir.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
JustinShapiro
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Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 41 min.
#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.46
It's cool, my man, it's cool. Jericho has an enduring connection with WWE crowds on the level of few guys on the roster, because the peoples have been wit him for five years and have always seen him as bigger than his push -- in fact, that's part of the reason why he's endeared to them, because they can 'tell,' with or without knowing, that he's underutilized. A similar thing is going on with Christian, where people have taken to him and see him as bigger than his push. It's grass-rooted.

Jericho tried to heel against Shelton but it didn't work, because he's Jericho. It's not that big a deal, because people really like Jericho. They sided with him in a face vs. face match against the Rock.

Win-loss record and spot on the card are not the foremost things that determine crowd response. People like Shelton Benjamin. But they adore Chris Jericho, and so most sided with him. That doesn't mean Shelton Benjamin isn't over with 'the marks.' People cheering Chris Jericho or Shawn Michaels when you're wrestling them is not a negative reflection on you, because they've got tenure in being revered. However, in the Michaels match, eventually the crowd shifted from cheering Michaels to cheering the nearfalls and the match itself, because their work sucked them in.

And that's part of the point. Everyone keeps saying that his moves are awesome but he needs how to do a promo if he wants to get over, but they're half-off: he's already over, in large part because his moves are awesome. And becoming a better talker is certainly something he should work at, but there's no need to worry yet about him having trouble catching on. He's not as over as Chris Jericho or, I dunno, John Cena, but he's plenty over. I could cherrypick isolated crowd reactions, but I don't really see the point; I guess it's just something we'll keep gauging in the future of time.

Feuding with Muhammad Hassan is not exactly going to be the best showcase for him or this overness of which I speak, because Hassan can't work and isn't even really over as a heel ("but what about all those people who chant 'USA'!"), but maybe that's just a placeholder program until After The Gold Rush and draft. Maybe, in fact, Jericho is eventually going to turn on him a la Guerrero/Mysterio -- in which case I would promise that Shelton Benjamin would be cheered.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 12.5.05 1458)
Alpha Dog
Pickled pork








Since: 10.2.03

Since last post: 1745 days
Last activity: 1 day
#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.75
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
    I don't know which of these moments was the funniest:

    #1. Maria calling Shawn Michaels "Edge".

    #2. The double take and total look of surprise on Shawn's face when he realized that Maria had just called him Edge.

    #3. The totally innocent and clueless look on Maria's face when Shawn (with a total stunned look on his face) asked her if she had really just called him Edge. The look on her face clearly said: "Yes I did...why ?"

    #4. The spaced-out smile on Maria's face as Shawn was talking to her. She reminded me of Homer Simpson not listening to Shawn at all and just thinking "Mmmmmmmmmm....doooooonuts."




Irony: Someone attempting to bag on Maria mistakenly adding "The" to Edge's name, and said would-be bagger not even coming close to getting THEIR facts right in the process.

Nice.

Dude, she called Edge "The Edge," and called Michaels "Shawn Michaels" - see Justin Shapiro's post of the transcript in the first page of this very thread.
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 361 days
Last activity: 321 days
#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.12
    Originally posted by Alpha Dog
    Dude, she called Edge "The Edge," and called Michaels "Shawn Michaels" - see Justin Shapiro's post of the transcript in the first page of this very thread.

I just watched it, and that was all right, but I could see how someone thought that Michaels said "Did you just call me Edge?" That, I would guess, is what KevinTripod thought as well. And that kind of thing happens all the time. I know a girl who thought AC/DC had a song that went "Dirty Deeds and the Thunder Chief".



NOTE: The above post makes no sense. We apologize for the inconvenience.
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