Lita is definitely going heel - the radical change in her outfit is the kind of thing that foreshadows a turn, and for some reason in the WWE it seems that WARM-UP PANTS ON A DIVA = EVIL.
Kane, I'm not so sure about, but the WWE sure could use a couple of more Main Event Heels. Seems to me they've only got HHH, Edge, Angle, JBL, Eddie (if the turn takes), and Xtian (but for how long?). That's a total of 6, while the face side has Batista, Cena, HBK, Taker, Benoit, Jericho, Kane, Show, Shelton, Booker, and maybe Rey. Orton - I don't know what they are planning with Orton.
Based on last night's show, maybe Kane and Jericho are both going over to the dark side.
-MHM, winner of the 2000 Throwdown in Christmastown.
The Lovely Mrs. Tracker was mesmerized by Lita's top like it was a car crash. She was horrified by it. Not offended. Oh no. Horrified.
I rarely give this kind of quasi-hyperbole but the Shawn/Shelton bout is my leading MOTY contender. It was the rare correct use of the "satisfying loss," as the still-young Shelton left himself in the position for the loss by using another high-risk move (hence the phrase). Shawn hit his finisher and won. Gotta think Shelton would have had he hit the T-Bone. A rematch is inevitable.
The Hurricane/Rosey finisher -- the two-man Nightmare on Helms Street -- needs a proper hero moniker. I suggest the Fall of Justice.
I really enjoyed the show. A fun time all around.
"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
-Did anyone think they're teasing Christian taking Batista's place in Evolution?
I'm sorry to say it, but I think Evolution's done for.
My theory as to why HHH lost in the tournament: they may shock the world and draft him onto Smackdown. That's probably why Christian lost, too.
Interesting outfit from Lita; I'm wondering if any "nip slip" shots were taken by ringside fans' cameras during the first match.
I like Tomko now. I look forward to seeing what he can do.
Benoit vs. HHH was awesome, and I loved the Batista psychology toward the end of the match. Not sure why he came to the ring in his tights to bug HHH, outside of a bonus match at the end of the evening.
Benjamin-Michaels WAS fantastic, and one of the better TV matches I've seen in a while, especially becase it wasn't an expected match-up. Odd that they didn't follow up with Jericho after the HBK-Benjamin match, but I guess they're slow-burning it.
I can completely see an Edge-Kane final (do those brackets even match up? I honestly can't recall) with Lita turning on The Big Red Machine. Lita and Edge would get cheap heat like no one's business, plus it actually makes a bit of storyline sense, inasmuch as she really shouldn't be hanging around Kane given the whole rape "thing". Unfortunately, to do that angle effectively and actually make some money off it, they'd have to bring back Matt Hardy and concoct the biggest shoot angle this side of Russo. But hell, if it's giving the people what they want...
And I agree with others here: a Benoit-Batista main event at Vengeance would be much preferred to HHH-Batista III, but there's no use fighting the inevitable.
Originally posted by CANADIAN BULLDOGI can completely see an Edge-Kane final (do those brackets even match up? I honestly can't recall) with Lita turning on The Big Red Machine. Lita and Edge would get cheap heat like no one's business, plus it actually makes a bit of storyline sense, inasmuch as she really shouldn't be hanging around Kane given the whole rape "thing". Unfortunately, to do that angle effectively and actually make some money off it, they'd have to bring back Matt Hardy and concoct the biggest shoot angle this side of Russo. But hell, if it's giving the people what they want...
And this would allow Trish to cozy up to Kane and continue her "I TOLD you Lita's a slut" angle as a face.
"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
I’m loving this tourney so much, honestly. It’s sad that they only bust stuff like this on free TV during May Sweeps, but I’ll take what I can get.
Overall show thoughts:
- As soon as I saw that the first tourney entrant was going to be Christian, I knew his opponent would be Kane. And yeah, Christian lost. But with the memory of him slumming around with the Un-Americans still fresh in my head, I’m still just kinda happy to see him getting a place at the table. He’s basically the heir apparent to Chris Jericho at the moment, right down to the second-turnbuckle springboard attack. - Batista’s actually being an assertive presence as champ, right down to the little things like telling Christy to stay after Bischoff dismissed her. - Shelton vs. HBK: dear god, Shelton with the nip-up was one of those defining moments for his in-ring character. His matches are just so damned believable. Now if he could only find a way to channel that believability to his mic work, he’ll be huge. - I could have sworn I actually heard a few scattered “Boring” chants during Jericho/Edge. And Jericho’s just starting to look like his heart’s not into this anymore. Just something about the way he carries himself. - Awesome, awesome main event that made everyone involved look better. Did Benoit win clean? Nope. But his sell-job on that concussion was awesome, which made him look that much more unstoppable. And Batista’s screwing HHH out of the win made him look better, as it shows him to be in control. And by losing the match in the first round (and to his old nemesis, Chris Benoit), HHH’s character is more interesting than it’s been in a while. Bonus points to HHH for visibly cursing as soon as he heard Benoit’s music, since it put Benoit over as someone HHH actually fears.
Excellent show... nothing to add in the way of the kudos, really. Everything great that happened was already mentioned.
Count me as one who is hoping this Jericho malaise is all an angle. His contract's about up, he hasn't won the big one, he's got Fozzy and other things, and his heart's just not in it. Until he reaches the lowest point, of course, and goes on a tear to win the belt back. One can hope.
Why in the holy hell is Viscera on TV? I mean, really.
"Maybe I'm getting off topic, but this thread already sucks, so I don't feel bad about it. " -LotusMegami
"The only way TV Gangrel could change is if Real Gangrel changed." -Filipino Elvis
Am I the only one that hopes Lita doesn't go heel? Given the state of the women's "division", Trish would almost HAVE to go back to face by default. And I for one prefer heel Trish WAY more than face Trish. While I guess Lita has never been heel in her WWE run, somehow I don't think her character will become any better because of her limited acting skills (I realize that she is drawing heat, because many fans have made Matt's business their own, but I personally don't care, and don't see how that would ever translate into the actual TV product unless they hire Hardy back).
The Bored are already here. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. And no... we won't kill dolphins. But koalas are fair game.
Originally posted by ges7184Am I the only one that hopes Lita doesn't go heel?
The problem here is that she already IS a heel. Not storyline-wise, but the fans just will not accept her as a face. She's gonna get booed HEAVILY everytime she steps out there. The WWEEEEE doesn't have much of a choice really. That, and also the fact that milking Lita and Edge as dickhead heels would create MONSTER heat and be one of the best angles that accidentally fell in their lap.
I love heel Trish too, but that division is dead anyway at this point. Victoria can be the "face" of the division if need be.
Reading your reactions to RAW, it seems like people at home liked the show more than I did live. I haven't watched the tape yet, but apparently the show came off great on TV.
Sitting in Loge 115 at the Fleetcenter, the show seemed to lurch along throughout the night. When Shelton vs. HBK was over, we were surprised it was only 10pm. With the commercial breaks, not having an advertised main event to look forward to outside of Triple H's "mystery opponent", and the terrible Masterlock Challenge, the show felt like it had no direction live. (Speaking of the Masterlock Challenge, James DeFranco, or Jimmy Jack Ca$h as he's known in the local indy circles, is a coworker of a friend so it was amusing to see him fall to the Masterlock.) Not to say it was a bad show, it just felt uneven and a little tedious live. The Shelton vs. HBK match was pretty great, as was the superkick to Shelton's face that finished it. That was one of the best RAW moments in months. Triple H tapping was surprising. Those matches were fun to watch live and I haven't seen the tape yet, but I imagine they play better with the commentary.
It seemed like there were two audiences in the Fleetcenter. The fans surrounding the ring in the ringside area were way more into everything than the people further back on the floor and in the loges and balconies. There were little pockets of support for just about everyone. Christian is growing more popular by the day. He had a lot of fans scattered throughout, typically college age males who relate to his persona. Tyson Tomko even got some positive pops during his Heat match. The association with Christian is having positive effects on Tomko's popularity. Batista is loved by little kids, and so were Shawn Michaels and John Cena whenever he was referenced in video packages. The little kids were all decked out in newly purchased John Cena gear. Girls loved Cena and Edge. Jericho is always popular with everyone. Only little kids seem to like Hurricane and Rosey, who, if Val Venis weren't around, would be the stalest acts on the roster. The black people in our section loved Shelton although he was hardly anyone else's favorite against HBK. The Heart Throbs cut a funny Heat promo with Maria and dropped a catchphrase got a reaction, but it didn't translate to the crowd being interested when they wrestled. No one knows how to react to Kane anymore. Is he a heel or a face?
My favorite person in the crowd was a fan dressed like Muhammad Hassan. One of his friends carried a cardboard bullseye that he'd hold on his back whenever "Hassan" stood up. The real Muhammad Hassan had his fans in the crowd, myself included. Hassan is an awesome heat magnet and has tons of presence and charisma. He holds your attention. Edge and Lita got some negative heat, but it wasn't as forceful or obnoxious as it has been in the past.
In general there wasn't anyone the fans outright rejected like they used to reject X-Pac, for example. Everyone was over to some degree or another with aspects of the crowd - except for Chris Masters, but his reaction was more indifference and boredom than outright hatred. Batista got the biggest pop for his main event run in. Shawn Michaels was also incredibly over; he was by far favored over Shelton by the crowd. Triple H always gets good reactions in Boston. Chris Candido's memorial graphic got a mild pop. The biggest reactions came not for the wrestlers, but for moments: Triple H tapping, HBK's superkick to Shelton popped the crowd the most. I think most everyone hoped we'd somehow see Hogan. If Hogan had appeared, the building would have erupted. Also we missed seeing Trish. An awkward moment was when the trainers ran out to check on Benoit in the main event. They flashed a close up of Benoit's face, eyes bugging out, as he was selling his head injury on the Titan Tron and a big part of the audience laughed at Benoit's face. When a Happy Birthday Rock graphic was shown on the Titan Tron, the initial pop of cheers was drowned out by boos. The Rock has never been overly popular in the Fleetcenter.
The bonus tag team comedy main event of Shawn Michaels and Batista vs. Triple H and Edge had a lot of tomfoolery and was a lot of fun. The children in the crowd were all clamoring for Batista to see some action as he stayed on the apron waiting for the hot tag the entire match. Michaels did pull down Triple H's tights, exposing his ghostly white thong tanline over his orange cheeks for a couple of minutes. Flair got his pants pulled clean off and ran around in his red boxers. Eventually he did put his pants back on. Flair and Triple H just love to show their asses. Triple H had the longest delay of jumping off the turnbuckles and taking the flying face to HBK's foot I've ever seen from him. Then he Funked it on rubbery legs for almost a minute before doing a Flair flop. When Batista tagged in, Batista hit a double noggin knocker so Flair and Triple H could do stereo Flair Flops. Batista pinned Edge with the spinebuster to end the night.
(edited by John Orquiola on 3.5.05 1129) "Strong words. Strong words from a strange man." - Kent Brockman
Looking at the picture of Lita and Kane, I have one question. Whose jaw is larger? I can't tell.
If Christian can stay a tweener for as long as possible (forever?) I would be eternally grateful. I think a full-scale face-turn would damage his character. He needs to be snarky, diluded, and a little immature. That's why we love him.
He was a popular attraction until he choked to death on a corn kernel.
From WWE.com: ...After last year’s Survivor Series featured a battle of the brands in a Classic Survivor Series Match between Team SmackDown and Team RAW, ECW will make their Survivor Series debut on November 26 in Philadelphia.