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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW 4/18/05 - RAW is MSG (Page 3)
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JoshMann
Andouille








Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

Since last post: 2292 days
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Y!:
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.77

    (1) HHH, stop putting your hand up for the chair shot. Benoit would do no such thing.


To be fair, HHH did manage to sell a single chairshot from Batista like death, which has been the single best put-over attempt for Batista since he won the title.



"Meet the kite-eating tree you son of a bitch!"

Phantom
Frankfurter








Since: 17.3.02

Since last post: 2375 days
Last activity: 2351 days
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.87
I just wish they’d get over this idea of pushing the Pedigree as HHH’s key to winning the match. I’m all for giving the babyface champion a weakness to be exploited. It adds drama to the match. But they’re not doing that. They’re just having HHH say, “I have this great move, and you won’t kick out of it,” in one of the least-suspensful feuds since Jericho/Lucy. If anything, it’s either going to result in a huge anticlimax when Batista kicks out (since now everyone is expecting it), or it will bury him if he doesn’t (since now everyone is expecting it).

If they wanted the Pedigree to mean something in this match, they’d run ye olde Concussion angle and not even bother mentioning that the Pedigree is supposed to be a powerful move on its own. As fans, we already know that part from watching the last few years of RAW. Then Batista will either be that much more unstoppable for kicking out, or is at least somewhat protected if he can’t.

EDIT: As for HHH and the chairshot, remember that 1) he also just had a fat man's ass knock him for a loop last week, and 2) Benoit and Angle can both tell you that unprotected chairshots to the head are probably not that good for you.

(edited by Phantom on 19.4.05 0855)
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 10 hours
Last activity: 4 sec.
#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.85
Hey, Snookum, how long have the Heart Throbs been tagging? The reason I ask is because I thought they had some pretty crisp teamwork last night, but your post makes it sound like they haven't been together for too long.
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 2 days
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.57
My only question: How long before Edge has "Relax with Trudy" painted on his briefcase?
Snookum
Kishke








Since: 19.6.03
From: Louisville

Since last post: 2638 days
Last activity: 2619 days
#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.49
    Originally posted by Tenken347
    Hey, Snookum, how long have the Heart Throbs been tagging? The reason I ask is because I thought they had some pretty crisp teamwork last night, but your post makes it sound like they haven't been together for too long.


Well, going to the shows several times a month, it sometimes all becomes a blur. LOL. Looking back, it may have been November of last year when they first started up; definitely the fall of last year at the earliest, I believe. Before that, they were in several solo matches, usually dark matches.
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 14 hours
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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by devineman
    Its strange but maybe H IS the best which we have got for the belt. I mean, backstage politics/crazy fanboy hatred aside, who does have any sort of legitimacey that H does?

Yeah, funny how that works. Every face who comes up against HHH eventually gets smacked back down to the midcard (often times with nothing to do for months on end), with HHH always coming out on top holding the belt. And even when he's not holding the belt, he's still the main focus of the show. Nobody else has any credibility? I'm shocked, shocked I tells ya. Politics & hatred aside.



too-old-now
Bockwurst








Since: 7.1.04

Since last post: 1298 days
Last activity: 223 days
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.59
    Originally posted by ScreamingHeadGuy
    I only watched the first 45 minutes of the show. For every positive, there was a negative. I got sick of it and turned the show off. Maybe I need to take a break from Raw, 'cuz I certainly haven't been enjoying it lately.


ScreamingHeadGuy, I've missed your recap/reviews, particularly the fashion reports. This week's Raw fashion highlights featured Hogan tearin' up his yellow Tee, HBK's bondage jacket, Hassan's towel, JR's belly sooner shirt, King's referee jacket, and Big Vis' garbage bag (well it should have been his garbage bag)...

I miss the Mr. America outfit. But I'd rather see Hogan go out as Hogan instead of as tag team partner to a 1-legged freak who outwrestled him. Just keep his celebration to < 5 minutes.


    Originally posted by Hogan's my Dad
    Trish/Vis was so damn good. That is comedy. Every other form of comedy they've tried since McMahon/Angle/Austin singing during the Invasion has been painfully unfunny.


Come on. Most of Eugene's stuff with Regal has been priceless. The Kane/Lita wedding (with Trish commentary) was very funny, as was Snitsky's drop-kick of Lita's baby. Stone Cold calling Simon Dean a little purple bastard. These are just off the top of my head.

Anybody else see the similarities in the start of Tomko's push with the start of Batista's push. Batista started getting attention without saying much, but simple facial expressions behind HHH's back (especially when Eugene was offered an honorary place in Evolution). Both were the jobber for the mouthpiece in tag bouts. Both sell pretty well, but have limited offensive moves. I hope they don't move too fast with Tomko, he might turn out to be moderately entertaining after all.
devineman
Chipolata








Since: 16.2.04
From: UK

Since last post: 910 days
Last activity: 509 days
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.17
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    Yeah, funny how that works. Every face who comes up against HHH eventually gets smacked back down to the midcard (often times with nothing to do for months on end), with HHH always coming out on top holding the belt. And even when he's not holding the belt, he's still the main focus of the show. Nobody else has any credibility? I'm shocked, shocked I tells ya. Politics & hatred aside.


So what? Just because he is the main focus, doesn't mean nobody else can have credibility now? Look at the examples from the past, with Andre/Hogan, Hogan/Warrior, HBK/Hitman, Austin/Rock?
What I'm saying is he needs a viable contender to him, which they haven't got. Don't get me wrong, I'm not shouting H's praise, more the WWE's lack of a Main Event roster. Going back through the years, you can always pick out two who are the big dogs of that generation, the guys who actually fueded for a while and drew, who can we say that about with the current crop? HHH/Batista?



True intelligence is the ability to admit you know nothing.
mercer
Head cheese








Since: 17.11.03
From: Aransas Pass TX

Since last post: 2816 days
Last activity: 2676 days
#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.78
I loved the whole Lita-Trish segment simply because I think Lita got what she deserved. And if 17,000+ doesn't let them know they fired the wrong person, I don't know what will. Man those people booed Lita outta the freaking biulding!
Anytime anyone says "bidness" I have to follow it up with, "If you weeeelllll." Great work by Trish and Vis.
Am I the only one whose see's a slight resemblence between Masters and a young Paul Orndorff? Let Mr. Wonderful manage him and Masters will own.
JR juiced like a man, I love it!
I love HHH. Say all you want about his holding down of talent, the man's passion for the business is unmatched. I've read that he's got a bulging disc in his neck or back, and he's still willing to bump big last night and take a nice chair to the head. I have a lot of respect for him after last night.



The one man weapon of mass destruction that all the ladies call the master of seduction, MARVELOUS MATT MERCER!!!
Later and God bless
Marvelous Matt Mercer
www.MATTMERCER.tk
Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 7 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.16
Anyone else see that Tomko may turn on Christian?

I enjoyed the show for the most part ... there were some interesting developments and they actually followed up on the 4 matches they've announced for Backlash.

While I wasn't blown away by the Heart Throbs, at least WWE is adding another tag team to the RAW roster and they worked well together. I'd be willing to bet they face Regal & Tajiri at the PPV.

As for the draft, the first thing I thought of when Vince said "in about a month" is the RAW after the Smackdown-branded PPV Judgement Day. This would allow for storylines to be wrapped up. Which led me to wonder ...

... if Chris Jericho may win the IC title and be sent to Smackdown. A trade is then negotiated to bring the US Champ to RAW.

And if Chris Masters is offering people money to break his Masterlock, shouldn't it be more than $1000? I keep thinking "dude, you're on RAW. At least up the ante to $5K ..."

(edited by Mayhem on 19.4.05 1312)


BABY BOY MAYHEM

Summer 2005
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 14 hours
AIM:  
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by devineman
      Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
      Yeah, funny how that works. Every face who comes up against HHH eventually gets smacked back down to the midcard (often times with nothing to do for months on end), with HHH always coming out on top holding the belt. And even when he's not holding the belt, he's still the main focus of the show. Nobody else has any credibility? I'm shocked, shocked I tells ya. Politics & hatred aside.


    So what? Just because he is the main focus, doesn't mean nobody else can have credibility now? Look at the examples from the past, with Andre/Hogan, Hogan/Warrior, HBK/Hitman, Austin/Rock?
    What I'm saying is he needs a viable contender to him, which they haven't got. Don't get me wrong, I'm not shouting H's praise, more the WWE's lack of a Main Event roster. Going back through the years, you can always pick out two who are the big dogs of that generation, the guys who actually fueded for a while and drew, who can we say that about with the current crop? HHH/Batista?

I'm not saying nobody else can have any credibility, I'm saying maybe they aren't *allowed* to have any, lest a certain someone become overshadowed.

Who could draw? Out of today's crop, I don't know. Jericho could have, but ran up against HHH. RVD could have, ditto. I can't stand Kane, but he seems to be a draw when he's pushed, especially after he lost his mask. But HHH was the top heel, so Kane went nowhere. I doubt Benoit could have, but he was never given a chance. Maybe Batista, but he's hardly on the show since he won the belt. All these guys have a common tHHHread (har har), so maybe it's by design that nobody else gains the credibility.

    Originally posted by mercer
    I love HHH. Say all you want about his holding down of talent, the man's passion for the business is unmatched. I've read that he's got a bulging disc in his neck or back, and he's still willing to bump big last night and take a nice chair to the head. I have a lot of respect for him after last night.

Yeah, that's nice. Does his passion include helping make as many stars as possible in order to make the company money? Does the passion mean burying guys before they could get a chance to become draws? Does his passion mean stepping aside to let some other guys shine, in hopes that someone catches fire and ignites the next wrestling boom? Does his passion include convincing Stephanie to maybe step aside as head of creative, for the good of the company? Does his passion include convincing Vince to change how he views the business (i.e. too much emphasis on look over ability, bringing up guys from OVW way too early, maybe letting guys work different styles [why are cruisers working like mini-heavyweights?] to bring some excitement to the product)?

He wrestles hurt, big deal. It's not like everyone else on the roster doesn't do the same. How do we know his passion is unmatched? Maybe Charlie Haas is watching wrestling tapes every day in order to make himself better.



flairforthegold13
Kishke








Since: 1.5.03
From: Gainesville, FL.

Since last post: 2515 days
Last activity: 2502 days
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#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.04
The company was never really high on Jericho.
RVD if anything had his drawing power ruined by the botched InVasion.
Kane's fun, but not as a main event guy.
The ratings are up since Batista won the belt.
Benoit did fine as champ and dropped the belt to Orton. Hard to blame HHH for that.
I think H worked hard to get Orton over, incidentally.

So, you're blaming HHH for Stephanie being head of creative, Vince calling up OVW guys and cruiserweights working a slower style?

Wow, he really must be the cerabral assasin.
Apparently he has Vince McMahon wrapped around his little finger.

H deserves as much criticism as any top star who is a tad protective of their spot (that is, every top star in history)
but that's going a bit far.



gater
Bauerwurst








Since: 29.1.02
From: Palatine, IL

Since last post: 2403 days
Last activity: 1582 days
#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
A couple of thoughts:

* I'm ready for Christian to main-event. I think he would have no problem holding the title and my attention for the better part of a year.

* I didn't like Tomko until last night. I don't know if I didn't notice, or if he stepped up with Vince and Christian, or if it was a rub effect.

* Trish didn't like when Vis felt her up as he picked her up, but she is awesome.

* The Heart Throbs? Terrible. Their tagging was horrendous, they screwed up several moves and generally looked lost in the ring. Maybe debuting at MSG wasn't the best move.

* I thought Lita was laughing. Shows how callous she really is.

* I really, really hope they do the draft right because there is so much potential there. They have momentum in some places which they need to keep, but there is definite 'shaking up' to do.
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 14 hours
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#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
-If the company was never really high on Jericho, why sign him away from WCW, and give him a big entrance into the company? HHH didn't like him from the start. Jericho's title regin was an absolute abomination.

-RVD was still mega-over after the InVasion. His deathblow was hurting HHH's throat in the Elim. Chamber. Angle broke Bob Holly's arm, but the company never really held that against Kurt. RVD is one of the company's biggest wasted opportunities in recent history.

-Ratings are up, but it'd be nice for Batista to get some mic time, as well as face time somewhere else on the show besides the last 10 minutes.

-Benoit was treated like a midcarder when he was champ, while HHH feuded w/ Eugene. HHH couldn't step aside and let Benoit have the spotlight?

-Kane was getting big ratings for his spots. Maybe they should have pushed him to the top to see what would have happened? But that would have meant he'd be above HHH.


    So, you're blaming HHH for Stephanie being head of creative, Vince calling up OVW guys and cruiserweights working a slower style?

No, but you can't deny he's got a lot of clout. If he got in Vince's ear about things like that, maybe Vince might change up some of his preconceptions. Or maybe get Steph to change how creative is handled, or step aside altogether (a bonus, but not likely, unfortunately).

HHH wields a lot of power in the company. When he often wields it for his own good, rather than the good of the company, I have to question how dedicated he is to the business.

He's a bit more than "a tad protective" about his spot. Rock makes Hurricane look good, HHH comes along and squashes Hurricane. Rock refused to put Booker over because he knew HHH would come along to go over Booker, rendering Rock's job obsolete. No heel on Raw can rise above a certain point, because that would mean HHH wouldn't be the top heel. It doesn't take a genius to pick up on this stuff. I'm being too hard on HHH? Maybe it's because it is deserved.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 19.4.05 1505)

devineman
Chipolata








Since: 16.2.04
From: UK

Since last post: 910 days
Last activity: 509 days
#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.17
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff


    No, but you can't deny he's got a lot of clout. If he got in Vince's ear about things like that, maybe Vince might change up some of his preconceptions. Or maybe get Steph to change how creative is handled, or step aside altogether (a bonus, but not likely, unfortunately


So, your ragging on him because hes not
a) Trying to tell his boss (and father-in-law) how to run his company, and
b) Trying to get his wife to give up her job?

Try and look at things from a realistic point of view and not some crazed idiot who has no real clue what HHH gets upto (because in the end, none of us can say if he even talks to Vince or Stephanie about wrestling - its all hearsay).

One final thing:
    Originally posted by flairfothegold13


    So, you're blaming HHH for Stephanie being head of creative, Vince calling up OVW guys and cruiserweights working a slower style?



    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff

    No, but hes got alot of clout.



Err...yes you are, only two posts above:

    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff

    Does his passion include convincing Stephanie to maybe step aside as head of creative, for the good of the company? Does his passion include convincing Vince to change how he views the business (i.e. too much emphasis on look over ability, bringing up guys from OVW way too early, maybe letting guys work different styles [why are cruisers working like mini-heavyweights?] to bring some excitement to the product)?







True intelligence is the ability to admit you know nothing.
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 14 hours
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#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Err...yes you are, only two posts above:


Err...no I'm not.

How is "HHH should use his clout to try to change the way the company does things" the same as "HHH is responsible for the way things are done"? Steph is head of creative, not because of HHH. Vince has those preconceptions, not because of HHH. HHH has enough power that he can try to effect change without being "punished"/disregarded for it. Convincing Steph to step down is a bit of a stretch, I'll agree, but he at least can try to get her to change up how the creative end is handled.

The business isn't exactly booming, so why sit around and wait for the next popularity explosion? Why not try to shake things up in hopes of actively creating it, rather than waiting for it to fall into their laps?



Oliver
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: #YEG

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#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.51
I still mark out when I see Hogan. I cheered like mad when he came out to save HBK. Anyone care to wager on how long he'll be around for this time?

Also, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I also miss Snitsky. I'm by no means a fan, but I think he's funny.



I'm pretty fly...for a bald guy!
OMEGA
Lap cheong








Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 1941 days
Last activity: 1909 days
#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.66
What can you say about Vince? Eleven weeks ago he tore BOTH quads and last night he walked (and I mean 'Vince McMahon power strut' walking) to the ring with no assistance.

THE MAN IS A MACHINE~!

Also, Christian was excellent in that segment as well. The man is far and away my favorite performer today (well, Shelton is pretty close, and I'm digging Carlito too, but still...).

I must say I liked the backstage segment between Viscera and Trish. It was one of those things that I should have hated, but both performers did so well in it. Trish was awesome in her role (as always), and Vis suprised me by doing a great job in his role.

The Heart Throbs' gimmick entertained me, as they are so over the top that you can't help but laugh. However, once the bell rang it was obvious that they aren't quite ready.

I really started feeling bad for Lita out there. The MSG crowd was quite unmerciful. Of course, WWE was stupid if they didn't expect that to happen.

Only thing I can say that dissapointed me last night was the final segment. Hunter/Batista was GREAT when they were teasing the break-up, but has since lost an incredible amount of steam.

(edited by OMEGA on 19.4.05 1653)


The answer to WWE's financial problems...

Never 'Wiener of the Day', and is actually quite bitter about it.
hhhgamewmx7
Bockwurst








Since: 15.6.03
From: Eire

Since last post: 3265 days
Last activity: 3243 days
#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.83
Good Raw overall, Hogan/HBK was great and lasted as long as it should have, they have never been in the ring together in any capacity to my knowledge. Maybe an early 90s Rumble. It's weird how Hogan has avoided the Rumble since then. MSG was great, nowhere else would you get those chants. Yeah Triple H broke JRs arm, but that was 6 years ago, if it didnt happen within the last year don't talk about it on TV. Viscera/Trish was very good, that's how you get over a heel-heel segment. Ya Vis has a personality, remember Mable?

(edited by hhhgamewmx7 on 19.4.05 2305)


mercer
Head cheese








Since: 17.11.03
From: Aransas Pass TX

Since last post: 2816 days
Last activity: 2676 days
#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.78
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
      Originally posted by devineman
        Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
        Yeah, funny how that works. Every face who comes up against HHH eventually gets smacked back down to the midcard (often times with nothing to do for months on end), with HHH always coming out on top holding the belt. And even when he's not holding the belt, he's still the main focus of the show. Nobody else has any credibility? I'm shocked, shocked I tells ya. Politics & hatred aside.


      So what? Just because he is the main focus, doesn't mean nobody else can have credibility now? Look at the examples from the past, with Andre/Hogan, Hogan/Warrior, HBK/Hitman, Austin/Rock?
      What I'm saying is he needs a viable contender to him, which they haven't got. Don't get me wrong, I'm not shouting H's praise, more the WWE's lack of a Main Event roster. Going back through the years, you can always pick out two who are the big dogs of that generation, the guys who actually fueded for a while and drew, who can we say that about with the current crop? HHH/Batista?

    I'm not saying nobody else can have any credibility, I'm saying maybe they aren't *allowed* to have any, lest a certain someone become overshadowed.

    Who could draw? Out of today's crop, I don't know. Jericho could have, but ran up against HHH. RVD could have, ditto. I can't stand Kane, but he seems to be a draw when he's pushed, especially after he lost his mask. But HHH was the top heel, so Kane went nowhere. I doubt Benoit could have, but he was never given a chance. Maybe Batista, but he's hardly on the show since he won the belt. All these guys have a common tHHHread (har har), so maybe it's by design that nobody else gains the credibility.

      Originally posted by mercer
      I love HHH. Say all you want about his holding down of talent, the man's passion for the business is unmatched. I've read that he's got a bulging disc in his neck or back, and he's still willing to bump big last night and take a nice chair to the head. I have a lot of respect for him after last night.

    Yeah, that's nice. Does his passion include helping make as many stars as possible in order to make the company money? Does the passion mean burying guys before they could get a chance to become draws? Does his passion mean stepping aside to let some other guys shine, in hopes that someone catches fire and ignites the next wrestling boom? Does his passion include convincing Stephanie to maybe step aside as head of creative, for the good of the company? Does his passion include convincing Vince to change how he views the business (i.e. too much emphasis on look over ability, bringing up guys from OVW way too early, maybe letting guys work different styles [why are cruisers working like mini-heavyweights?] to bring some excitement to the product)?

    He wrestles hurt, big deal. It's not like everyone else on the roster doesn't do the same. How do we know his passion is unmatched? Maybe Charlie Haas is watching wrestling tapes every day in order to make himself better.




The one man weapon of mass destruction that all the ladies call the master of seduction, MARVELOUS MATT MERCER!!!
Later and God bless
Marvelous Matt Mercer
www.MATTMERCER.tk
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