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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw 2-23-04 (Page 2)
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Von Maestro
Boudin rouge

Since: 6.1.04
From: New York

Since last post: 715 days
Last activity: 288 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.06
Man, where's the love for the Foley interview??
It built towards the feud in a more subtle way than we normally see in the wrestling world, & set the stage for Rock's return very nicely & believably within the current storyline.

As someone said before, I was also hoping for a Lita turn & would like for them to pull the trigger & insert her back into the Christian/Jericho/Trish thing by killing Trish yet again next week. Hopefully a heel turn would make her a little more interesting & make her rely on a less high-risk/high blown spot moveset.

It looks like Vince is trying to get as many people on the WMXX card as possible & hopefully he can get them there with logical storylines...

Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 122 days
Last activity: 63 days
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.53
I dug the show. We needed some matches and angles for WM, and that's why I think that the talking was at an all time high. I thought the matches were all pretty decent, especially the Benoit contest.

All right, it is time to capitulate on the HHH tip. His promos are really repetitive and are not doing much to help the triple threat's cause. I still think that the buildup has been pretty good for the match and I disagree with Paragon entirely. This angle might be being overshadowed by the quick making of matches for WM, but I think that fans are still getting into this contest. We only have the first interpromotional match since the split and the return of the Undertaker after almost 6 months. These contests are going to get the marks excited, but don't sell the triple threat short. The fact that the fans were into Benoit's win and into HBK's save sets the table nicely for the WM match.

Oh, and Lance Storm doesn't deserve a WM match at this point. (Not that Gayda really does either, but she did expose herself on live TV...that's gotta count for something.)

Damn you WWE for making me change my sig. I'm sure you have good enough reasons to get rid of Shannon, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Let me thus be the first to say: BRING BACK DAFFNEY!
Shem the Penman

Since: 16.1.02
From: The Off-Center of the Universe (aka Philadelphia)

Since last post: 1817 days
Last activity: 1615 days
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.13
First an Undertaker video heavily influenced by The Ring. Then Kane drops "He never sleeps" into his promo. Next week: Kane wraps a bunch of power strips around himself and jumps into a bathtub?

I'm glad that they seem to've decided to get Vince vs. Eric out of their system now instead of saving it for Wrestlemania -- since no one would ever believe it'd be anything but an exercise in Vince kicking Bischoff's ass around the ring.

s'io credesse che mia risposta fosse
a persona che mai tornasse al mondo,
questa fiamma staria senza piu scosse.
ma percoche giammai di questo fondo
non torno vivo alcun, s'i'odo il vero,
senza tema d'infamia ti rispondo.

Since: 9.7.02
From: Sleep (That's where I'm a viking)

Since last post: 2071 days
Last activity: 1200 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.42
Brock Lesnar vs. Goldberg would have been a great first ever inter-promotional match, even if Goldberg's suspended from Raw. Too bad it's not.

Jackie/Stacy vs. Torrie/Sable in a tag team Evening Gown match, eh? Nice to see them busting out the old stipulations at least. Wasn't the last Evening Gown match the one where Sable lost the Women's Title even though she won the match, bu order of Commissioner Michaels? Still, it's a good thing this isn't the first ever inter-promotional match.

Remember Benoit vs. RVD from SummerSlam 2002? What about Billy & Chuck vs. 3 Minute Warning? Why don't they get any recognition?

What are you, some sort of critic?

Since: 12.1.02
From: BC, Canada

Since last post: 3605 days
Last activity: 3141 days
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.07
Your Molly report: Still strikingly hot, even though she no longer has the title.

Can we get Molly vs. Victoria for the title at Wrestlemania? Pretty please?

Are you ready for Mahkan-mania to run wild all over you?

I mark for Molly Holly and Lance Storm.

Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 651 days
Last activity: 651 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.51
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
    Also, there's something unsettling about the fact that Trish's selling sounds exactly like my ex-girlfriend's while....

You're so right, if you closed your eyes you'd never have known she was supposed to be injured. And of course, I did close my eyes for that very reason.

Boromirmark, why would you post reaction to smackdown in a RAW thread? I get that you were doing some kind of poetic wordplay thing to Quezzy, but you should have at least related it to the topic of this thread. Just a thought, not trying to be a dick.

As for my thoughts on RAW, meh. I dug Foley's promo, but it could have used a mandible claw in JR's gullet just for history's sake. I hope to God Rock returns, because we need something to offset the "wormhole of suck" effect that Randy Orton's crappiness has on the show. I'm serious, he sucks so badly that everything within a three-segment radius sucks by proxy. On a booking note, it's not exactly the work of psychic to figure out Lita and Val Venis won't win their matches when they haven't been on RAW in ages and just show up out of obscurity in high-profile matches. Please surprise me. Brock delivered the softest F-5 I've ever seen tonight. I thought they were gonna spoon after that it was so delicate.

Shawn Michaels is a dickface. Can someone please point out one time in the bible that Jesus ever turned water into a glass ceiling? Why is he in the match? Why can he beat up all of Evolution but Benoit, who can chop the nipples off a cast-iron statue, not even work a chair? Why did Shawn bitchify Benoit in their match a week prior? Why did Shawn make Benoit look like an idiot by taking his contract the week before that? I've seen botched boob-jobs that were less lopsided than the booking of this feud. And Triple H? Jesus, he goes backstage and says he "wants them to hear it" and you hope, against hope and your better logic, that just this once he'll reach down within himself, channel someone remotely entertaining, and not stink to high fuck. But what does he do? He literally does the same promo we've seen him do a million times before. If God loves me, he'll give Triple H alzheimer's so he'll forget how fat and lazy he is. Maybe then he'll try.

But no Jericho? What a gaping open wound on the genitals that was. He really was missed. Know how I noticed he wasn't there? No good matches.

(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 23.2.04 2203)

(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 23.2.04 2204)

I'd tell you to kiss my ass, but I don't want to get it infected.
El Nino

Since: 18.2.04
From: Pune, India

Since last post: 4992 days
Last activity: 3724 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.00
Fear not, people! Login problems aside, I shall rise again to bring you the following RAW REPORT OF DOOM!
Molly v Victoria the Psychobitch v Jazz with the Funky Hair v Lita still can't throw punches...The only good thing coming out of this is Victoria winning...The Lita/Victoria stuff was a trainwreck...Was Lita stoned or something? I counted atleast eight blown spots...Were the bookers stoned? What were they thinking giving this 9-odd minutes? Will no one answer the questions? 1/2*
Heatless Orton v Val Venis...Well, better than the last match, but thats not saying a lot...Inoffensive at best, dull and bland to boot...I think Val tried, but Orton screwed most all the spots, even his own finisher. *1/2
Chris Roboto v DAVE...Surprisingly well-worked and it wasn't Benoit carrying DAVE throughout...DAVE impressed in this, with his selling...good finish, though the ending was never in doubt, I hope. **1/2
BookDam v The Frenchies...Ooh, what did I tell you? Book and RVD make good champs...This was an OK match, served its purpose...Plus the ending was hot, so we'll go *3/4.
Canadian Blonde#2 v Canadian Blonde #3...Well, Ok, then...I guess Christian's a full-out heel now...He had that creepy look in his face...How come he didn't finish with the Unprettier...I mean Trish is pretty and Jericho has her, so Christian makes her unpretty, so Jericho can't be happy with her, or something...Am I the only one who thinks up this crap? Sportz Entertainment Finish, so no rating.
Eric the Bisch v Vinnie Mac...Well, this should not be considered a match...scrap all that...NR-SEF.

Austin/Bischoff stuff: You know, Eric's really good at the whole "crap, what do I do now?" face. I like Austin's new character a bit better, he's less annoying now that he's actually more human. Sadly, all the buildup went to nothing cause the match died a horrible death. ** for the effort.
HHH/Benoit/Shawn: BENOIT GETS REVENGE! Good stuff, but the speech was boring as hell. Sets up a tag match next week, we'll see where they take Benoit/Michaels then. **
Christian/JeriTrish: Well, no Jericho, Christian's now a heel. What was the point of the last two weeks? That seemed realy rushed, too. *1/2
Foley Interview: Your usual solid promo from Mick. He's got a black eye for good measure. He'll be there next week, apparently. **1/2
The Announcement(s): What a clusterfuck. I'll ignore the Strip match, but UT/Kane when UT hasn't been seen yet? Right. Brock/Goldberg is what the crowd wants, but was there any real reason to put Austin in there? -*
Brock Lays out Austin: No, you idiot! That guy's your ref in the match against Goldberg and you're gonna need all the help you can get. Counterproductive, really, not to mention stupid. DUD.

Show Rating: *1/2 - The matches sucked, the angles were more or less pointless and/or predictable. Bad waste of time.

Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 2983 days
Last activity: 187 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
(deleted by CRZ on 24.2.04 1000)
Boudin rouge

Since: 24.2.03
From: Toronto, Canada

Since last post: 254 days
Last activity: 19 hours
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.41
I think the point was that there's a difference between "I hated the show" and "none of it was good". The latter is basically saying "and to you people that did say you liked it, I think you're all a bunch of fools!"

"Boy, I've crippled more people than Polio!"

Since: 2.1.02
From: Central Florida, somewhere between Orlando and Tampa, U.S.A.

Since last post: 1089 days
Last activity: 403 days
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.67
To paraphrase the late, great Bill Hicks, boy is my finger not on the pulse of the Wienerboard lately...

Actually sat down and watched a fair chunk of RAW tonight. Honestly watched it. All things considered, it was a fun show with a lot of fun stuff. In furtherance of said conclusion, Defendant would show the following:

1) Yes, Lita's parts of the women's fatal fourway were, to be diplomatic, less than spectacular. However, Molly and Victoria worked their asses off - how 'bout that fucking bridge/rollover to pin Molly? Spectacular! And speaking of asses... I would declare Victoria's ass to be official women's champion, but she looks like she can wrestle, so I'll show some respect here. Besides, she can probably kick my ass seven ways to Sunday.

2) Disturbing-yet-fun little segment with Trish and Christian - even if the outcome was predictable. And good god almighty, yes, Trish in the Walls of Christian sounded a lot like... well, you know...

3) Was the end segment long? Fuck yes. But Jesus Freakin' Christ, people, we had a segment where Vince McMahon actually let others be the focus and advanced some other angles - unlike other egomaniacs on the show tonight (and why yes, HHH, I'm looking directly at you on that one, why do you ask?)!! Sure, the crowd shat (shit? shitted? How does one conjugate that verb for that noun, anyway?) on the Evening Gown match announcement - and man, I hope Torrie and Sable win, because I really don't want to see 'em half naked. Das thrill is gone. But we got Kane involved as well, not to mention Austin and Brock. Hell, Bischoff even gets some offense in - though you know the non-finish was because Vince won't put over Bischoff.

4) Foley promo - A/K/A/ "Wait for it, wait for it!!" This, my friends, is how you do a slow burn. Subdued promo for most of it, with Mick turning it up several notches at the end. Not his best promo by far, but still very enjoyable.

Other random musings:
+ What does it say about Flair and Bautista as former tag team champs that, next week, it's Orton and Bautista teaming against Benoit/Michaels? Evo-who-tion?
+ Good god, Benoit really needed to interrupt HHH's promo soooo much sooner. Not too thrilled about how he looked with the four-on-one beatdown, but if he keeps getting clean submission/pinfall wins over Evolution and other top wrestlers straight up to WM, I'll let it slide.
+ Randy Orton - not quite the Honky Tonk Man, because he's actually cleanly winning matches. Also not quite X-Pac, but getting "X-Pac" heat from me (and probably others), with more to follow suit soon. Then again, my finger's not on the pulse, soooooo...

But all things considered, a fun RAW tonight.

THE CONSPIRACY FAILS - Randomly Selected Wiener of the Day, August 13, 2002
"Thanks RageRockrr! You're the coolest!" - Excalibur05, March 10, 2002.
"Thank you for bringing back a DEEP 80s memory, Rage. THANK YOU." - DMC, June 6, 2002.
"Big Props to RageRockrr: '+ Oh, and three simple words: Optimus. Fucking. Prime.' You're DAMN right!" - Bizzle Izzle, August 7, 2002.
(former remainder of sig file deleted due to space and bandwidth concerns)

Since: 21.1.04
From: Palouse, WA, USA

Since last post: 4229 days
Last activity: 3086 days
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.01
    Originally posted by ParagonOfVirtue
      Originally posted by Stilton
      Vince's BIG ANNOUNCEMENT was boring. We knew it would be Brock vs. Bill at WMXX. I was hoping he might actually throw out a surprise for the fans, a reason for the undecideds to buy the damn show. He missed the mark, but pleased the marks.

    Wait, wuh?

    You are upset that he didn't throw a surprise for the fans, yet you say he missed the mark by only pleasing the marks? Pleasing the marks IS the mark. As internet fans, we know most of what happens before it actually happens. That's our own fault. Marks, as in the majority of WWE fans, can infer but really don't know what will happen until it does. The official announcement of Brock vs Goldberg was big. And if Brock vs Goldberg was not big enough and too predictable, I'd think, from a mark perspective, that inserting Steve Austin as the guest referee was a huge surprise enough. Hell, I've only heard of that tidbit a few times myself and it could have easily passed me by.

    BTW, off-topic, I was thinking. How kickass would it be to have a Benoit/Michaels/Rock/Foley vs Evolution tag match a week before Mania? Wouldn't work considering the Michaels/Benoit issues, wanting to separate Foley and HHH, and you know, Rock not being scheduled yet, but this match would be huuuge for last-minute Mania purchasers.

And by sheer numbers, we are the far, FAR minority as far as wrestling fans go.

(edited by Cerrita on 23.2.04 2303)

Triple H is like fine wine, his grace and talents accented gracefully by his advancing years. Ah, yes, just like fine wine; that or those triple chedder nachos I forgot in the back of my fridge for three months.


Be good, Vince. Don't be dumb.

Since: 22.9.03
From: Indiana

Since last post: 4976 days
Last activity: 4976 days
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.36

From what I know of Japanese, if it's spelled Uranage then it is pronounced oo-ra-na-gay. If it is Urange then it is pronounced oo-ran-gay.

I has trouble getting excited about anything tonite. The martial art I study was buried, lots of beatdowns, I could care less about Jackie's tits and Stacy's ass, the only thing I'll remember is how much Bischov needed a hug.

He does. Hug to Bischov.

You are Brock Lesnar
You are Brock Lesnar

Which WWE Wrestler are you?
brought to you by Quizilla
T.i.O a B.m.F

Since: 25.10.03
From: T.i.O in U.s.A

Since last post: 5395 days
Last activity: 5393 days
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
I have some questions....Bisch/Vince never ended right? Was Vince the face tonight? Shouldnt Vince be afraid of Taker returning? Is Vince still going to fire Bisch or is the whole thing forgotten?

And my biggest question...Why did Lesnar F-5 Austin? He's going to be the special ref for your big Mania match and you F-5 him? That makes no sense to me and they werent feuding or anything.

Recognize and Respect®
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Currently being "ignored" by 11 people,
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The Immoral One's A Bad Motha F*cka!"

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Tyler Durden

Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

Since last post: 799 days
Last activity: 799 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.38
Victorias pants have finally won the big one!

Seems to have been a smart decision to show Vince and those other old men in the office some butt!?

Hopefully "the pants" will defend that title on the biggest stage of em all. Perhaps against a heel or tweener Lita?

Wir sind hier nicht in Seattle...
Mr Heel II
Lap cheong

Since: 25.2.02

Since last post: 18 hours
Last activity: 18 hours
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.87
Just got back from the Qwest Center. The arena had four sections in the very top tier behind the cameras blacked out, and I'd say they accounted for fewer than 500 seats total. Otherwise, packed house. The new arena is really nice and well laid out. Lots of parking and pretty easy access out after the show.

I loved that Foley pointed out that nobody came out to help him in his promo. The emotional buildup at the end was just awesome.

We were happy to be in attendance for Victoria's title win. During the break, Molly ran back into the ring several times. When she was finally cleared out, Lita and Victoria circled without locking up clear through the rest of the break.

We were sad that we got no Blue Man Kane.

Christian's heelness was indeed awesome, and we also noticed that Trish's yelps of pain sounded like something completely different.

JR got some of the best heel heat of the night for coming out to his Sooners music. There were several anti-Oklahoma signs in the house.

The last segment reminded me of every time I make an appearance in my workplace's customer service department. I go back there to do one little thing and like five people come running to me every time with some stupid thing they need help with, and I'm there for what seems like forever.

We were hoping for a surprise, maybe in the form of an Undertaker or a Rock appearance, but we didn't expect Lesnar. Nice way to cap that segment.

POST SHOW: Lesnar mocked Austin, taking his four-wheeler for a spin around the ring, having some beers tossed to him, and drinking away. Austin recovered, picked his spot, kick-wham-stunner. Austin gets a couple beers and starts celebrating...much to his surprise...with a fan who somehow made it into the ring. Security escorted him to the security guys on the other side of the barriers. Vince is in the ring to check on Lesnar, and Austin started feeding him crap about it. Austin then complains that Vince won't drink a beer with him. Vince says it's not that he won't, he just doesn't like the brand Austin brought. Lesnar started to recover, so Austin offered him a beer, then another kick-wham-stunner. Back to Vince...Austin won't stunner him if he catches a couple of beers. Vince has problems catching the beers. Vince eventually gets the beers, he and Austin toast, kick-wham-stunner. Play Austin's music and we leave.

As we were leaving, we heard Vince complaining to the crowd and spitefully announcing that this is the last time Brock Lesnar will ever appear in Omaha. Play Lesnar's music!

Since: 17.2.04
From: Eugene, Oregon

Since last post: 4660 days
Last activity: 3962 days
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
Alright, maybe it's just me (seriously doubt it) but most of the wrestling plotlines are pretty transparent. There is a whole truckload of foreshadowing, though they have used subtlety in the past. Heck they're trying to hit the smallest denominator they can...

But as for my take on what happened...

I HAVE FOUND PROOF OF GOD, FOR IT IS VICTORIA'S BOOTY. Though that glorious thing was almost overwhelmed by Lita being a putz. You heard me putz! I mean she isn't all that charismatic (remember when she was in the announce table or did you block it out like I did?), and not that great of a wrestler. If she's gonna stay around at least help her get better. Something! Anything! Or at least play her against Molly and Victoria so we can see decent wrestling. (All I wanted for Christmas was to be hit by the Molly-Go-Round.)

As for Trish... yeesh I stop watching for like eight months, and she starts getting good. Damn her for breaking out the Eyecandy mold and making my brain work.

Yanno Christian is a great heel. Always been a good whiny little jerk, but... I wonder if he wasn't acutely aware of the obviously masochistic Trish.

At one point Triple H was much better, or at least not so lazy... Now he's just the same over and over again... Please god (Victoria's Booty) save us from the pain.

Will give Batista some credit, he's green, and not terribly appealing, but I like how he sells stuff. (But does he had an expression other than scowl?) And I will mark on comprable levels to an Austin fan when Benoit locks the Crippler. Especially when he got it on HBK... ahhhhh, now if only I could see him piledrived through three tables.

I remember when Val first showed up in the WWE, and he was in the thick of it... and then? Well damn to buried so deep. And what a lazy RKO, liked what it came from... hey, wouldn't it be nice if Randy Orton was being pushed so that he'd take down the two 'legends' in his stable?

I love Bischoff backstage... he is better than I remember, and his interaction with Austion tonight was good. (If Bischoff is the Little Buddy, what precisely does that make Austin?)

Did like that Foley called people on not helping him. Don't think I've ever seen anyone do that before... but wait, is that foreshadowing, is he going to be getting beaten with a wire coat hanger next week? Who shall come to his rescuse then?

Seriously, I'd like to know.

Ooooo DJ you made a baseball reference, I grant you points!

(edited by Iago on 24.2.04 0228)

Nothing says I love you quite like a piledriver

Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 8 hours
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.67
Man, Lita looked like hell last night. She took the Widow's Peak all wrong, and I hope she didn't hurt herself. Also, I was glad to see Mick use the fact that it was the longest beatdown ever as a plot point. Now it at least makes sense that we had to watch six minuted of boring, repetitive punching and kicking.

Since: 19.6.03
From: Louisville

Since last post: 4191 days
Last activity: 4173 days
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.30
    Originally posted by Von Maestro
    As someone said before, I was also hoping for a Lita turn & would like for them to pull the trigger & insert her back into the Christian/Jericho/Trish thing by killing Trish yet again next week. Hopefully a heel turn would make her a little more interesting & make her rely on a less high-risk/high blown spot moveset.

I would think this match really is setting her up for a turn. Certainly be a good way to team her back up with Matt and thus giving us three M/F teams to work with (Jericho/Trish, Stevie/Victoria, Matt/Lita).

BTW, I thought that as sloppy and all over the place the women match was, it was also the best match of the night (admittedly, Benoit/Batista and the RVD/Booker matches came close). Molly was amazing as she went insane after losing the belt, and Victoria and Jazz did their best to pull Lita along for the ride. There was a lot of heart and soul in that match with those four women and it showed exactly why I always look forward to a match with them on RAW - they put 100% effort into every match. Maybe it's not always letter-perfect (and I won't argue that Lita was even that good in the match), but performance and drive is what I like to see in a wrestler and I'm seeing it moreso with the women here than I do with some of the guys on RAW.

Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 17 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.80
    Originally posted by BoromirMark
    I'm sorry, but that last Smackdown sucked. And that's saying a lot because Angle's my favorite wrestler. There was just a bunch of Heyman crap, Brock crap, Eddie crap, mic crap, none of it was good. Not even Cena made the night better. Sable gets a match at Wrestlemania but Nunzio can't? Bullshit.

Eddie is a wrestler. Brock is a wrestler. The mic time was for wrestlers. Cena is a wrestler. Heyman never takes over a show. On Raw you have non wrestlers getting all the time that's why it's crap.

Lance's Response:


Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 3540 days
Last activity: 3474 days
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.23
I'd say "non-wrestlers getting all the time" is a gross exaggeration. Vince took up one segment, the last segment last night, with Bisch and Austin along for the ride. What did that set up? Goldberg/Brock and Taker/Kane, two wrestling matches. Now, just over a week ago at No Way Out we had Jamie Noble Vs. Nidia, and for the three weeks building up to that we had constant non-wrestler hyping. It's swings and roundabouts, and to angrily delcare that "Raw sucked" and ranting against things without any coherent explanation....just doesn't work. Boromirmark's comeback was childish and asteroidboy is right-we all have the right to hate Raw-but let's try and do it with a little more intelligence, and a fewer blanket statements shall we?

Intelligent thought. Rational thought. That's all I ask.

"You're A Big Hunk Of Hero Sandwich, And You Wanna Save The Girl!"

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I'm going to leech chill's to intro the various segments. Great interview. Not quite to the level of Bret Hart's or Mick Foley's appearances, but still great. >Steve Austin walking out on the WWE.
- HomerJFong, Paul Heyman on OTR (2002)
Related threads: Victoria on raw - WWE RAW: February 16, 2004 - Vince's Big Announcement - More...
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