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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw 12-29-03 (Page 2)
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ScreamingHeadGuy
Frankfurter








Since: 1.2.02
From: Appleton, WI

Since last post: 755 days
Last activity: 755 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.06
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by ScreamingHeadGuy
      Another nit to pick: JR and King refer to the officials as "the ref", "this ref", or just "ref". They only tend to call Earl Hebner by his name. Thus I don't know who the hell most of those officials are. Damnit, guys, they've got names - please bother to learn 'em.
    Referees referred to by name at least once during their match by JR tonight:
    Chad Patton
    Ric Flair
    Mike Chioda
    Charles Robinson
    Earl Hebner

    Referees Jim Ross didn't name at least once during their match tonight:
    None

    Referees not assigned a match tonight:
    Jack Doan




I retract my statement. Looks like it's time for me to turn up the volume (and pay really close attention).



Fashion Reporter Extraordinaire

Because ten billion years' time is so fragile, so ephemeral...
It arouses such a bittersweet, almost heartbreaking fondness.

The Red Sox Fan
Cotechino








Since: 31.3.03
From: Philly Burbs

Since last post: 1921 days
Last activity: 41 days
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.64
My first thought during the HBK-HHH match was that HHH must've caught the Barry Windham-Ric Flair match on the end of Disk 1, except for the draw finish. Still, it's scary that Shawn can still carry people to that kind of a match. I was truly stunned, especially when Shawn's entrance started at 10:31 EST. My first thought was, okay, 20 minutes and then some stupid Austin angle to end the last 15 minutes. I honestly didn't think they'd give them 30 AND let them tear it up like that.

I was pretty blah regarding the rest of the show. It's kind of sad to think about what's happened to Scott Steiner. I think back to when he was literally one of the best young North American wrestlers out there, when I was virtually amazed every week with his quickness and moves, and what's happened to him. The needle and the damage done, no doubt.

Were I writing the show, I'd have an Evolution interview segment where all of them come out with their belts. It was a very effective tool back in the days of the Horsemen to see them out there gloating and holding the gold.

Still, I'd give it the "thumbs up" overall and hey, a big thanks for a fun last half hour or thereabouts.



"That's like throwing stones at a man with a machine gun" - Roddy Piper
CANADIAN BULLDOG
Andouille








Since: 5.3.03
From: TORONTO

Since last post: 553 days
Last activity: 551 days
ICQ:  
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.50
Damn - what a great main event last night. We can complain all we want about HHH making only Clique members look good (which I disagree with because he made Goldberg look damn good in several matches this year), but after last night, who cares? Talk about a last minute MOTY candidate. Both guys were just on their A-game last night.

The Austin stuff was ridiculous. It just shows once again how ridiculous WWE's power structure is. If McMahon doesn't have complete say over all decisions "because it's a public company now", then how can you explain 99 % of the decisions he's made since they IPO'd in 1999? If Linda is looking for what's best for business, why would they bother advertising a main event (Survivor Series) that could possibly rid the company of a person the fans want to see (according to Linda)?

Look, I KNOW we're not supposed to be thinking about this stuff too much, but seriously -- why go through a whole power struggle storyline that just INVITES these kinds of debates?

(edited by CANADIAN BULLDOG on 30.12.03 0532)


2003 -- A Year Of Murder!!! All this and more in the latest Inside The Ropes. Plus, check out my personal Year-End Awards right here!!!

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wordlife
Head cheese








Since: 4.4.03

Since last post: 3368 days
Last activity: 2652 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
Good Show

*they are showing continuity with regards to Henry still having his favor (I wonder if Y2J still has his favor?) It would be interesting to see if Jericho would use his favor to get a certain lady into a Women's title match at RR that was just supposed to be between Victoria and Molly

*the Victoria face turn has begun, and that's a good thing

*the Vince promo was great, I loved his comment about the fans wanting "candy, candy, candy"...I laughed my ass off when he said they are looking for the future (yeah, right)

*the HBK/HHH match was great, HHH looks like he is going back to his old body and not being cHHHubby anymore...hopefully he can put on some of the matches he did back in the day again (prolly not but one can dream)

*Why did Henry have to ruin the heat b/w Orton/Bookerman, however I am curious as to what Henry wants and scarily he is growing on me

*SCSA driving in was classic SCSA

Good show, let's see if SD can deliver the same goods :)



I dont feel bad at all about keeping the scholarship. I have studied hard my whole life (earning a 3.8 GPA at Yorktown). I am captain of the academic team, student council secretary, member of the chess club, and play the flute in the marching band and all I was looking at was getting a lousy couple thousand dollars of my school paid for with academic scholarships. The other Jason gets a 2.5 GPA and the NCAA minimum score on his SAT and he gets a full ride because he can run fast and put a stupid orange ball in a hoop. It looks like Coach Keady is going to be stuck with me for four years.---Jason Smith, a kid who signed a letter of intent to Purdue that was meant for another Jason Smith in his school (who is the basketball star of the school)
RoadWarrior24
Linguica








Since: 21.10.03

Since last post: 3729 days
Last activity: 3722 days
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.09
    Originally posted by ScreamingHeadGuy
    , Victoria (oh so sweet in pigtails)

    anyone got pics
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 16 hours
AIM:  
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
Pretty lackluster show up until the ME. Jericho/Christian, and Jericho/Trish were good (save for Trish's "acting"), but other than that & the ME, the show was pretty blah.

Random stuff:

--Booker not only jobbing in Texas *AGAIN*, but also being destroyed by Kane?

--Austin back in the same exact boring role, complete with JR screaming "RAW WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!!!!!!!!"

--Molly not getting a televised entrance *and* having to bump around for *Stacy Kiebler*?

--I guess JR has been listening to Tazz & Cole (saying Steiner "popped the hips" with his 2nd-rope suplex)

--Austin almost running over the face women gets a face pop, yet Bischoff going by the rules in the HHH/HBK match and disciplining a guy who hit him makes him a bad guy?

--Great ME, but it still bugs me when HBK just ignores all the back psychology. His opponents work the back, JR breaks out the "surgically repaired back", and there's HBK kipping up, running the ropes, doing the Savage Elbow, lifting HHH, hitting the superkick, all w/ relative ease.



Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 9 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
I thought Vince was foreshadowing a new direction last night with his Austin "past/future" talk. When Shawn was fired, I honestly imagined they were going to create a stable of Austin, Foley and Michaels to return and fight Evolution. With Evolution as the faces against this 1990s "Millionaires Club." Austin would be the bully, Shawn the ego, Foley the crazy one who won't meet challenges in the ring and Undertaker moving to Raw to even the odds. And I was for this idea. Seeing "new sheriff" Austin take us right back to where we were in October, I still prefer my idea only because it's something different.

I'm always taken aback when JR decides to namecheck old school references like the "Midnight Express action" during the Dudleyz match.






"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Oliver
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: #YEG

Since last post: 1 day
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.36
Decent main event; good (or not) to see the WWE keeps up with it's "home town boys never win" strategy. I really dispise "dusty finishes", though.

I never tire of watching HBK go at it, however.

(edited by SOK on 30.12.03 0726)
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 16 hours
AIM:  
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    I thought Vince was foreshadowing a new direction last night with his Austin "past/future" talk. When Shawn was fired, I honestly imagined they were going to create a stable of Austin, Foley and Michaels to return and fight Evolution. With Evolution as the faces against this 1990s "Millionaires Club." Austin would be the bully, Shawn the ego, Foley the crazy one who won't meet challenges in the ring and Undertaker moving to Raw to even the odds. And I was for this idea. Seeing "new sheriff" Austin take us right back to where we were in October, I still prefer my idea only because it's something different.

But how would you accomplish the Herculean task of getting Foley, Austin, & HBK over as heels while simultaneously getting HHH, Orton, and Batista over as faces? Orton & Batista are barely over as heels as it is. And besides that, you're tying up your ME scene w/ 3 guys who aren't full-time wrestlers (HBK, Austin, Foley), and an additional 2 that are nowhere ready for ME spots (Orton & Batista).

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 30.12.03 0954)


GRL
Frankfurter








Since: 13.7.02
From: Austin

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
I know I'm going to end up going on this one alone, but I got a 'bigger-time' vibe from Randy Orton last night. From the entrance to the (admittedly) awkward mic time, to even the match with Booker T, the one thing I kept thinking was "Damn, Mick Foley has done it again" in terms of making another star. Again, I admit it's early, but I'm starting to buy into the Orton push... big time. We'll see how that continues.

Nothing to add about the main event... I would much rather have seen the 'rematch' happen at the end of the show, but I digress. Also, did anyone else sit and think that Triple H tapping to the Figure Four would have been a PERFECT ending to the match? It would have made sense, given the pseudo-worked leg injury from moments before, not to mention been a non-standard ending to a Raw main event. I would have marked out, anyway.

Loved the Women's match, but only because I love Trish and Victoria.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 9 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    But how would you accomplish the Herculean task of getting Foley, Austin, & HBK over as heels while simultaneously getting HHH, Orton, and Batista over as faces? Orton & Batista are barely over as heels as it is. And besides that, you're tying up your ME scene w/ 3 guys who aren't full-time wrestlers (HBK, Austin, Foley), and an additional 2 that are nowhere ready for ME spots (Orton & Batista).


I think you could easily get Shawn over as a heel, and Foley can do anything, frankly. Austin, though ... the more heel acts, the more popular he is. He'd have to roast and eat Spike Dudley to be fully booed.

"And that's good eatin' ... CUZ IRON CHEF HUMAN SAID SO!"

But I think the angle could be served best as a full-on tweener angle. Let the fans boo and cheer who they want and give them reasons to boo either faction. Worked for Rock/Hogan.

The idea is completely rough draft; it's got enough plotholes to fill the Albert Hall. It developed (if that's the word) while I watched the show, and I hoped they'd go in that direction -- anything new -- instead of retreading the two-GM days.




"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
jivesoulbro
Bauerwurst








Since: 25.12.02

Since last post: 2432 days
Last activity: 457 days
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.24
The candy, candy, candy promo was some of Vince's best work in awhile, I thought. See Vince, you don't have to be over the top to be effective.

And I, for one, was impressed with Trish's acting in her interaction with Jericho. To go from a talking voice to a talking/crying voice -- I'm not an actor at all, but it seems like that would be kind of difficult to do. I thought it was particularly strong compared to what we usually get from the likes of Stephanie and Keibler.
Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.75
Great freaking match ... RAW needs more of those ... although I'm not a huge fan of the finish, it served it's purpose ...

Why Oh why is Matt Hardy wrestling in a dark match?

(edited by Mayhem on 30.12.03 1035)


"Yeah cake rocks the body that rocks the party." - Christian
Mr. Heat Miser
Blutwurst








Since: 27.1.02

Since last post: 2551 days
Last activity: 654 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.13
I'm with the JiveSoulBro - Trish's acting was perfectly acceptable for a Pro Wrestler, and miles better than what we typically get.

Yay, Trish!



-MHM, winner of the 2000 Throwdown in Christmastown.
King Of Crap
Goetta








Since: 17.9.03
From: Holley, New York

Since last post: 3484 days
Last activity: 3415 days
AIM:  
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.29
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    How anybody can say that match, (HHH & HBK) was anything BUT outstanding is beyond me. Calling it a "punk kick" match is just plain ignorant.


Well, call me ignorant, because that's what I saw. A not-so-good match saved by a hot crowd. If that match took place somewhere else, with a non-insanely-hot crowd, I bet that the majority of you would be posting about how HBK tried to get a good match out of HHH, but couldn't, because he can only do "punch kick".

This match was the TV version of Rock/Hogan I, a bad match backed by a hot crowd that gets a ridiculous amount of praise.

On onother note, SK just had to pull out the "killing the town" statement, didn't he?

(edited by King Of Crap on 30.12.03 1119)


You think WWE now is bad? Some of us had to live through 1993-1996!
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 16 hours
AIM:  
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
      But how would you accomplish the Herculean task of getting Foley, Austin, & HBK over as heels while simultaneously getting HHH, Orton, and Batista over as faces? Orton & Batista are barely over as heels as it is. And besides that, you're tying up your ME scene w/ 3 guys who aren't full-time wrestlers (HBK, Austin, Foley), and an additional 2 that are nowhere ready for ME spots (Orton & Batista).


    I think you could easily get Shawn over as a heel, and Foley can do anything, frankly. Austin, though ... the more heel acts, the more popular he is. He'd have to roast and eat Spike Dudley to be fully booed.

They tried HBK as a heel (nWo), and the fans didn't take to it. And nobody is going to want to boo Foley at this point. Ditto for Austin.

And, like I said before, Foley doesn't want to be a full-time wrestler, and Austin's neck won't let him be one either, so it's foolish to run a big-time ME angle like that w/ those guys.



StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 14 hours
Last activity: 9 hours
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
    Originally posted by King Of Crap
    Well, call me ignorant, because that's what I saw. A not-so-good match saved by a hot crowd. If that match took place somewhere else, with a non-insanely-hot crowd, I bet that the majority of you would be posting about how HBK tried to get a good match out of HHH, but couldn't, because he can only do "punch kick".

    This match was the TV version of Rock/Hogan I, a bad match backed by a hot crowd that gets a ridiculous amount of praise.

    On onother note, SK just had to pull out the "killing the town" statement, didn't he?

    (edited by King Of Crap on 30.12.03 1119)


Well, then sir, you are ignorant. (just kidding) I thought the match had a ton of psychology, lots of actual HOLDS and nice spaces of wrestling sequences. Some punches and KNEES! were thrown, but it wasnt like a Bradshaw v A Train match by any stretch of the imagination. And, the crowd wasnt influencing the wrestlers, it was the other way around. THey weren't very vocal until this match was about 1/3 the way in, and then it was just tension as the match built.



Also, did anybody else see the irony as Linda McMahon said that they needed a voice of reason on Raw, since BISCHOFF was always making judgements "to suit his own ego"?

Edit: Fixed the quote (missing ']') -Keeper

(edited by Keeper on 30.12.03 1206)
geemoney
Scrapple








Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 9 hours
AIM:  
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.55
    Originally posted by King Of Crap
      Originally posted by StaggerLee
      How anybody can say that match, (HHH & HBK) was anything BUT outstanding is beyond me. Calling it a "punk kick" match is just plain ignorant.


    Well, call me ignorant, because that's what I saw. A not-so-good match saved by a hot crowd. If that match took place somewhere else, with a non-insanely-hot crowd, I bet that the majority of you would be posting about how HBK tried to get a good match out of HHH, but couldn't, because he can only do "punch kick".

    This match was the TV version of Rock/Hogan I, a bad match backed by a hot crowd that gets a ridiculous amount of praise.

    On onother note, SK just had to pull out the "killing the town" statement, didn't he?

    (edited by King Of Crap on 30.12.03 1119)

I thought it was a good match, but like I said earlier, there seemed to be WAY too much punching and chopping going on for my liking. The moveset of the two seemed REALLY limited last night. I'd say it was a ***, maybe ***1/2, but not ****.
ParagonOfVirtue
Salami








Since: 20.8.03
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 3331 days
Last activity: 3011 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.80
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff

      They tried HBK as a heel (nWo), and the fans didn't take to it. And nobody is going to want to boo Foley at this point. Ditto for Austin.

      And, like I said before, Foley doesn't want to be a full-time wrestler, and Austin's neck won't let him be one either, so it's foolish to run a big-time ME angle like that w/ those guys.


    Using the nWo HBK as an example is flawed. The entire angle was so godawful as it was, and what ended up happening was the fans were watching HBK go on the mic for 15 minutes attacking no one in particular every RAW, backed by the Big Show and X-Pac of all people. There was no point to it, and he wasn't even a wrestler that could participate in any feuds. Times have changed. If the WWE were able to setup a few nice feuds with a heel HBK, it would work. However, Austin or Foley heels at this point in their careers would be a disaster, and that proposed angle is just not good to begin with.
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3596 days
Last activity: 2016 days
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.44
-Orton/Booker/Henry interview- Foley music plays but Orton comes out, he asks Lilian in the ring. Hey Orton not such a bad Guy! Tells her to announce him the winner from 2-weeks ago, what wrestling fan attention span allows us to remember what happened 2 whole weeks ago, oh thank goodness for the video montage at the opening. Well the announcement was made with Hardcore legend to be added in. Booker T came out and challenged Orton(Booker loses in Texas again). Mark Henry comes out and attacks Booker... Backstage Teddy and Henry wants to cash in on their favor. WHAT! Didn't they get it the day after SurSeries for a match vs. Booker?

-RVD vs. Steiner- Steiner offense is just bad, with the exception of the overhead suplex from the turnbuckles it was just slow... RVD had his normal spurts of offense, finish with a straight kick from the top and a 5Star splash.

-Non-jobbing jobbers vs. Dudley Boys- Flair is ref, Flair DQ's Bubba for using a closed fist. Lilian announces the losers of the match via DQ Dudley Boys. Dudley's attack Flair, Batista runs out and gives the OVW Hoss Special Sitdown powerbomb on the Dudleyz... So far this show has that NO Monday Night Football to worry about feel to it.

-Orton vs. Booker- Booker looked really good tonight, Orton looked alright as well. Spinning heel kick by Booker and a Great Tito Santana like lying forearm by the Book. Booker is going to finish of Orton BUT... hell fire and brimstone distracts Booker. Orton hits the RKO to give drop Booker's Texas win/lose record to 0-354.

-Stratus/Lita/Keibler vs. Molly/Gayda/Victoria- Even though I praised last years Holiday match, this year wasn't as good. First off it's after Christmas, plus last years action was all really fast paced. This year was more generic, but I guess it was good for what it is. Light years more entertaining then the SD divas effort. The Raw girls looked cute, especially Trish and Victoria hmmm. Why couldn't Lilian be wearing an elf costume :)... One odd thing I did notice was how de-emphasis Lita was. I mean Stacy came out first, Trish came out last and Lita was sandwiched in the middle. Trish got the hot tag and babyface win. And Victoria got the cheap shot and stood over the champion. Lita looked like a 3rd or 4th player, which I thought it was surprising. I liked the line Lawler gave on Victoria "She's.. Strange"

-HHH vs. Michaels- What an amazing main event! I think this was HHH best match since his quad injury. Michaels was even better. Great storytelling, build & action. HBK asai moonsault to the outside on Flair & HHH crashing his knee on the rail. HBK getting backbody dropped to the floor and being thrown into the steps, I believed Lawler and Ross thinking HBK hurt his arm legit. Speaking of well sold injuries I thought HHH tore is quad again!... Bischoff comes out and becomes a fair ref, I bought so many false finishes. I suspected something fishy when HBK got the "pin" the person I was watching called the double shoulders pin immediately. But all in all a fantastic 30-minute match, but what was with HHH frizzy hair LoL. Austin coming in hiring people back and making matches, is he GM again? What is this?

-Other Stuff- First hour full of Titan Towers chatter. Vince thinks we are babies. Linda says they always listen to the fans... Austin almost run over the top 3 babyface women, what a wacky, loveable rattlesnake... Bischoff talking to refs. I like knowing my refs, but on the Raw side I know Earl and my personal favorite Lil' Naitch(He reffed the divas santa match, lucky guy). But the other refs I have trouble putting a name to a face. SD refs have more personality... Now onto Trish/Jericho. I think Trish's acting was pretty good when she was being sarcastic at the beginning "a Canadian dollar, that's like 75 cents American" but like JiveSoulBro said crying on cue seems difficult to do. But it did look like she wanted to break and chuckle some times hehe

-Sign of the Night: "Ole fears Meltzer"
-Line of the Night: Trish "You made a bet for a dollar, a Canadian dollar at that. That's like 75 cents American"
-3Stars of the Night: 1)HBK. 2)HHH. 3)Booker.

The main event was spectacular, pencil it down in the memory band for next years RSPW. Great flow and match and the entire match, entrance and aftermath took about 45 minutes from 10:30 to 11:15. 10-10:30 was good with the lovely Raw divas and a decent IC match... The first hour wasn't that good at all, but on a positive alot of Lilian interaction. Don't really know what to make of what Austin is going to do, is he just going to go around and beat up heels?




Christmas is the one time of year when people of all religions come together to worship Jesus Christ. - Bart Simpson
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I would assume that 'Taker will no longer be aloud to use the term "Old School" anymore? Oh Jeff Hardy yelling "hoooooo" Or The Dudley's screaming "get the tables".. Gosh I can go on forever.....but I won't.
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