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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW 12/15: What the HELL was that?!? (Page 3)
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King Of Crap
Goetta








Since: 17.9.03
From: Holley, New York

Since last post: 3478 days
Last activity: 3410 days
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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.66
Reading the whole "killing the town" statement bugged me. If the next time WWE goes down to Tampa, they have a string of solid shows before that, does anyone really think that this "incident" will prevent them from coming out?

Fuck, I live in Upstate NY, and WWF/E has always put on shitty TV shows here, but that's never stopped people from coming out.

It seems to me that whenever someone writes that an angle has "buried" a wrestler or "killed the town", that they're searching for justification for their knee-jerk reaction.

Okay, let's say at WrestleMania, the I-C champ gets his ass handed to him for five minutes, and is someone else's bitch despite outside interfereance, and ends up tapping out, only to have the decision reversed, so he keeps the title. The next night, writers all over the 'net would be spouting off on how that "killed" not only the wrestlers involved, but the I-C title. For those of you who don't remember, this is not a hypothetical situation, it actually happened to The Rock at WrestleMania XIV, and I'm pretty sure that he went on to a half-way decent career, and the title still meant something. My point is, no one occurence can "bury" a wrestler, it takes a long string of occurences to do that. Even then, if the promotion decides to push the wrestler anyway, their career generally turns out fine.

Also, this whole "build up the main event then have it not happen" deal has a precedence, they did it in May of 1998, when they spent the whole show building up a Vince/Austin match, only to have Mick come out and ruin it. Sure, it pissed people off then, but the angle did end up doing very well.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I knew a swerve was coming when I looked at my clock during Foley's entrance, and saw that it was 10:58 EST.

(edited by King Of Crap on 16.12.03 1738)


You think WWE now is bad? Some of us had to live through 1993-1996!
Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2676 days
Last activity: 2676 days
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
Believe me, 1998 this ain't, in more ways than one. I myself wasn't too keen on the ending, but not because it happened, it was the way it happened. I understand the concept of Foley keeping his promise to not wrestle and all that stuff, that's well and good. But the execution left tons to be desired. We could've had Foley say something cryptic to Orton or Bischoff before he left.

I don't know, but the show as a whole was a huge downer for me, and that's a feeling I don't want THIS close to Christmas. Maybe it was the Y2J thing. I KNEW it would go the way of the romantic comedy (my least favorite of all entertainment). The Big O getting psyched up for nothing. The rematches from the night before, ones that many paid $35 for. Folks, $35 this close to Christmas is a small fortune to some.

But, I can piss and moan and overreact as I always do about these WWE things. But, I've grown used to it all. Even their HOLY SHIT moments leave me rolling my eyes. Predictability and cliches are their forte'. But thanks to Japan and the indies (even some PRIDE), I come away from this year not feeling shame, but pride in knowing that I have become an older, smarter wrestling fan.



After a quarter of a century on this planet, there's three things I know for sure...
1)I'm smarter than I was a year ago.
2)WWE isn't.
3) I'd make a fine Mrs. HHH II.
1300 bitches and counting....
King Of Crap
Goetta








Since: 17.9.03
From: Holley, New York

Since last post: 3478 days
Last activity: 3410 days
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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.59
I wasn't saying that 2003 is equal to 1998, even if I did feel that the year has become way overrated.

The build-up to that "match" was the closest thing to an "Attitude"-era show as they've gotten in a while.

I don't think saying something cryptic is Foley's style. It may have been Mankind or Cactus Jack's style, but not Foley's.

I think we'll get at least a partial explanation in two weeks, which made this the perfect time to do this, since now everyone has two weeks to try to figure it out, rather than one.



You think WWE now is bad? Some of us had to live through 1993-1996!
Torchslasher
Knackwurst








Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.44
    Originally posted by King Of Crap
    Reading the whole "killing the town" statement bugged me. If the next time WWE goes down to Tampa, they have a string of solid shows before that, does anyone really think that this "incident" will prevent them from coming out?

    Fuck, I live in Upstate NY, and WWF/E has always put on shitty TV shows here, but that's never stopped people from coming out.

    It seems to me that whenever someone writes that an angle has "buried" a wrestler or "killed the town", that they're searching for justification for their knee-jerk reaction.

    Okay, let's say at WrestleMania, the I-C champ gets his ass handed to him for five minutes, and is someone else's bitch despite outside interfereance, and ends up tapping out, only to have the decision reversed, so he keeps the title. The next night, writers all over the 'net would be spouting off on how that "killed" not only the wrestlers involved, but the I-C title. For those of you who don't remember, this is not a hypothetical situation, it actually happened to The Rock at WrestleMania XIV, and I'm pretty sure that he went on to a half-way decent career, and the title still meant something. My point is, no one occurence can "bury" a wrestler, it takes a long string of occurences to do that. Even then, if the promotion decides to push the wrestler anyway, their career generally turns out fine.

    Also, this whole "build up the main event then have it not happen" deal has a precedence, they did it in May of 1998, when they spent the whole show building up a Vince/Austin match, only to have Mick come out and ruin it. Sure, it pissed people off then, but the angle did end up doing very well.

    EDIT: I forgot to mention that I knew a swerve was coming when I looked at my clock during Foley's entrance, and saw that it was 10:58 EST.

    (edited by King Of Crap on 16.12.03 1738)


Man, I can't tell you how much I agree with this assessment.

The "killing the town" argument is weak and what's worse is that there is almost no way to prove it. If the WWE is worse off in 2 years and the live attendance is down across the board, then a poor crowd in Tampa is not an indictment of one Raw event from 2003. The mark fans will come back every time as long as the event looks good, or if they will possibly be seen on TV, or if there are some great storylines heading into a show. The WWE might be killing Sportz Entertainment, but they're not killing some town in Florida because some people can't get over one angle.

Furthermore, The King of Crap is again correct with the burying of wrestlers. The fans are very forgiving of how some wrestlers are treated in the past (partly because of the short attention spans). If a wrestler gets a great storyline or effective push to work from, then I think that they can carry the mantle for a while. For instance, it would appear to me that RVD is almost as popular now as he was in the beginning of his WWE career, and he is as popular as he was when going after HHH and the World title. Again, the fans can look past many bad angles and matches if the wrestler can still connect with them.

I am willing to give this new Foley angle a chance. Most of the people in this thread have even come up with good directions for this storyline to progress. I know that we are not allowed to trust WWE writers, but I think that they can salvage the cries of "WTF" from some of us. All I know is that I have never seen an angle quite like what happened on Monday night with Foley, and that makes me much more interested in Raw than the Brock/Benoit stale "you tapped out/no I didn't, I'm tougher than that" feud.





Damn you WWE for making me change my sig. I'm sure you have good enough reasons to get rid of Shannon, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Let me thus be the first to say: BRING BACK DAFFNEY!
Greymarch
Boerewors








Since: 24.2.03
From: Toronto, Canada

Since last post: 15 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#45 Posted on
Since the RAW I watch was on at midnight I made the mistake of glancing through here first.
I was just waiting for "it" to happen all show and when Foley walked out, I thought it actually worked pretty good. Did you hear the reaction when Orton spit in his face? Or the way JR and King kept on going with stuff like "He wants a running start! He wants to catch him backstage!"

I thought that the non-match at the end was probably better than all of the real matches on the show.



"Boy, I've crippled more people than Polio!"
Oliver
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: #YEG

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 23 hours
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Y!:
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.36
Funny, really...the Foley tribute was nothing more than one huge spotfest, with the punishment he took throughout his WWE career.

Woohoo to Triple H for lying down for someone; boo to him, however, for letting one of his best friends do it.

The WWE should have left the belt on Goldberg as he heads to Japan; it would have been a great PR move, with Goldberg saying that he wanted better competition for the belt, as he beat the best in the WWE. IT would have made his visit to Japan a little more exciting for the fans, and maybe even the participants.



themaker
Linguica








Since: 24.11.03

Since last post: 3870 days
Last activity: 3857 days
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
[ad removed]

(edited by CRZ on 18.12.03 1626)
King Of Crap
Goetta








Since: 17.9.03
From: Holley, New York

Since last post: 3478 days
Last activity: 3410 days
AIM:  
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.58
That guy tries WAY to hard to be a "cool asshole", but I agree with his assessment of the IWC's reaction.

If only he could stop typing curses like a five-year-old who just discovered a new word.



You think WWE now is bad? Some of us had to live through 1993-1996!
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 6 hours
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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
    Originally posted by themaker
    I like this guy's perspective on the Foley segment. though I might have worded it a bit differently
Okay, that's enough. I don't EVER want you (or any friends you bring over) posting shills/links to wrestling-stuff.com on here ever again. Next time you do it, you're banned. Thanks.



CRZ
Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2676 days
Last activity: 2676 days
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
Getting back to the topic, I like a lot of folks took a couple of days to cool off, and now I'm warmer to the idea, though I still think the way they pulled it off was a rip off to the fans in person. I could easily get optimistic about what they have planned for Foley in the next few weeks, but this is the WWE, and their track record sucks.



After a quarter of a century on this planet, there's three things I know for sure...
1)I'm smarter than I was a year ago.
2)WWE isn't.
3) I'd make a fine Mrs. HHH II.
1300 bitches and counting....
Oliver
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: #YEG

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 23 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.36
    Originally posted by Ringmistress
    Getting back to the topic, I like a lot of folks took a couple of days to cool off, and now I'm warmer to the idea, though I still think the way they pulled it off was a rip off to the fans in person. I could easily get optimistic about what they have planned for Foley in the next few weeks, but this is the WWE, and their track record sucks.
I agree with you, Miss Mistress; but I can't remember a "Holy Shit" moment in WWE history that totally surprized me...the last one was probably Bischoff being brought back in, or maybe the nWo's debut at No Way Out.

Here's hoping the WWE doesn't drop the ball this time.



LotusMegami
Salami








Since: 22.9.03
From: Indiana

Since last post: 3424 days
Last activity: 3424 days
AIM:  
#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.29
ScreamingHead,

Aw, hell. I didn't mean it that way. Just don't go off and pout the way my friend Wagner did when I corrected his grammar.





Don't all professional wrestlers have "more guts than brains" when it comes right down to it?
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He got most likely the biggest pop at RAW this Monday when I went. That is why the creative team is working dilligently to try and make him look more substantial then he is as a wrestler. It's sad to see how far he's deteriorated.
- TheMASKEDComputerGeek, Jeff Hardy Bashing (2003)
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