Originally posted by Dr Unlikely But anyway, on to important things: The Ascension! They are going to be a spectacular comedy team in the very near future. Konnor delivered the hydrogen bomb of disses with that amazing "Road Warriors? We'll throw YOU...off the...ROAD!" line. I mean, as a live mic debut, that's almost as good as when compeltely different person Conor O'Brian introduced himself on NXT4 with the immortal line of "HeeeEEEEeeeeEEEeeeeyyyyyyy!"
The Ascension should never have been allowed to go out and speak for themselves. If it wasn't for the OBVIOUS Legion of Doom/Power and Paint comparisons, they would have been perfect with a mouthpiece ala Paul Heyman in a Dangerous Alliance (not Authority) type of group.
Originally posted by Tenken347RAW is now a garbage show for garbage people. It is very frustrating.
I DON'T LIKE SOMETHING SO THEREFORE IT'S GARBAGE AND EVERYONE WHO DOES ENJOY IS OBVIOUSLY TERRIBLE TOO.
Quite frankly, everybody's reaction previously was "I hate how everything is centred around one person why are they not building up new people" yet when they do focus on Ziggler, Barrett, Reigns, Harper, Rollins, everybody is like "this is terrible, I don't care about these people".
To be fair, Lance Storm tapped out last night on twitter after the Ascension promo. Its not like its just internet nerds. If it smells like garbage, taste like garbage and doesn't move like garbage. Its garbage. I would argue everyone minus Rollins is in a bad place or just not bothering to show up. Lets go through the list.
Cena-Is an asshole. A cowardly self involved asshole. This is happening on TV not just IWC Land.
Ambrose-Couldn't win pin the tail on the donkey without a blindfold against Sister Mary's Children of the blind.
Reigns-Every day is a slow slide to him being irrelevant by the time we get to Mania. He is feuding with Big Show for no reason.
Ziggler-On what should have been the biggest victory of his life outside of the title, no one has brought this up. He loses the title on TV to a returning Barrett who was better as a face last week.
The Authority-All of them suck the life out of the show. There is nothing funny trolling about Step and HHH. Its two people who know they can do whatever they want even though Rome is burning around them.
Bryan and Lesnar-MIA.
Rusev-Stuck in the mid-card fighting people no one cares about.
Wyatt-Winning matches against a guy who can't win. He will be built up like last year and lose like last year if Taker wrestles at all and I don't think that is a certainity.
Divas-I...pass.
Tag Team-Who cares. I like the tag team division, but the USOs are not the Rockers or the Hardys. They need a very over face team to compete with MizShow and StarDust.
Ascension-Remember when everyone said that only ECW guys got over due to the bingo hall. I got a feeling we are going to say that some of the NXT guys only got over in the Everglades.
Its all bad. I am may go to the Rumble and pay $100. All of that is to sit in the suite if I can't do that then fuck it. I probably will order it, but God Damn, I really don't want to give them money for being this bad. Especially with the Reigns winning it all on the wall.
Originally posted by Dr Unlikely But anyway, on to important things: The Ascension! They are going to be a spectacular comedy team in the very near future. Konnor delivered the hydrogen bomb of disses with that amazing "Road Warriors? We'll throw YOU...off the...ROAD!" line. I mean, as a live mic debut, that's almost as good as when compeltely different person Conor O'Brian introduced himself on NXT4 with the immortal line of "HeeeEEEEeeeeEEEeeeeyyyyyyy!"
The Ascension should never have been allowed to go out and speak for themselves. If it wasn't for the OBVIOUS Legion of Doom/Power and Paint comparisons, they would have been perfect with a mouthpiece ala Paul Heyman in a Dangerous Alliance (not Authority) type of group.
They are definitely in a weird spot, in that they're probably not physically big enough to do the gimmick on the main roster (where you have guys like Ryback and Rowan, who already look just a little bit of make-up away from being the Powers of Pain 2K14). But, as you say, there's no reason they can't complement an existing or new group and aren't exactly the right candidates for a manager or stable leader to clear the biggest hurdle for them. Seems weird to not have had them be Rollins' back-up while the Authority was gone (not to take away from the very good stooging of Mercury and Noble).
Whatever the approach, the thing to not do is what they actually did: take two guys with a gimmick that worked well enough and say "Eh, just make 'em the Road Warriors", then two weeks later say "Who made these guys the Road Warriors? Send 'em out there and have them say they aren't the Road Warriors!" and then two minutes later say "These guys stink, have JBL say they stink compared to the Road Warriors!"
That's basically what makes parts of the show so depressing to watch these last few months, seeing remenants of talented people just get brought in, beaten down and abandoned. Big E and Adam Rose going at it in a heatless match really stood out to me as (especially in Big E's case) an example of what's wrong at the top, and Cesaro and Kidd suddenly joining Rose felt even more like someone saying "I don't care, just have them do something."
(Alternate idea for New Day and Ascension instead of an I Love The '80s vs. '90s Kids feud: have Xavier Woods' "New Day" actually be a front for his secret Illuminati ideals, and have the New Day be Woods, Konnor and Viktor instead).
Anyway, yeah, I feel bad for dumping on the Ascension right out of the gate, but man, that promo was so, so bad that it's probably going to be really hard to recover (not impossible: that very first Bad News Barrett Raw debut segment was awful, too), so I'm just waiting for them to become "Curtis Axel's The Ascension" with the Ax-Man and Konnor cutting the greatest worst promos of all time.
Originally posted by Dr UnlikelyAnyway, yeah, I feel bad for dumping on the Ascension right out of the gate, but man, that promo was so, so bad that it's probably going to be really hard to recover (not impossible: that very first Bad News Barrett Raw debut segment was awful, too), so I'm just waiting for them to become "Curtis Axel's The Ascension" with the Ax-Man and Konnor cutting the greatest worst promos of all time.
At least when NXT wasn't "televised", it allowed people to work on their promos and see what works and what doesn't with a small audience. The problem now is once a persona is made, it's hard to recover from.
With the heavy music and the intimidating costumes, the voice doesn't match. It's literally like the Suburban Commando "You're a dead man, Ramsay" scene.
It's also a stark reminder that they can't take everything that goes on down at NXT at face value because they are two VERY different audiences. You can't just thrust somebody on Raw and expect them to make an impact right off the bat, you really need to string them along. It's similar to how networks cancel programs right away because they're expecting Seinfeld numbers the first few episodes and they only get 1/10th of it.
Originally posted by lotjxAscension-Remember when everyone said that only ECW guys got over due to the bingo hall. I got a feeling we are going to say that some of the NXT guys only got over in the Everglades.
Yeah, I agree with this very much. I started thinking of parallels between NXT guys who were called up and ECW guys who signed with WWE. Might be a parallel between The Ascension and The Public Enemy.
Originally posted by Dr UnlikelyThe ending could have been worse: it sure seemed for a second like HHH and Stephanie were leaving the office, er, ring, to clear out space so Ziggler, Ryback and Rowan could all join The Authority, too and attack Cena. I guess they do get the Rhodes Brothers Memorial Attacking The Authority From The Crowd push now, which, I don't know, do they hide in the crowd in Sheep masks or do they hide in the crowd in Sting masks? I'm honestly not as down on this now as I was last night (when I was mostly down on it for being a terribly produced and written segment) as long as they don't turn Ziggler for Cena-fodder.
Yeah, I hated the ending at first, but in thinking about how this plays into the now-inevitable Sting/HHH match, I can see why they may be doing this.
The rumors heading into this Raw was that there'd be a "major angle" and the mass firing was apparently it. While it seems like a let-down, if this leads to something akin to what it looked like Sting was doing in early 1997 with Savage, Giant and Luger, where he appeared to be recruiting his own team, I can see why this could be the start of something major.
If we have at least one RAW without those fired guys, does that mean RAW is conceding next Monday to the college championship? They'd still have the following Monday to sell the Rumble. Rowan's not much of a loss now, but, even temporarily, Barrett loses his presumptive top contender and Rusev loses his angle. So they get easy squashes.
If you really dug Ryback's speech last week, um, whoops.
"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
I think the thing that gets me is that really has become the HHH/Stephanie show... and they just aren't good enough to carry the 'Big Bad' for this. One doesn't even wrestle and the other has been beaten so many times that it doesn't mean anything to pin him. And it has been proven that they will just 'win' anyway and still be the boss of things. At the end of the day, those characters will always be on top. What's the compelling reason to follow any of your favourites when you know in the end, Darth Vader will always win.
It's great that some of the undercard guys have something, but this is all building towards a 55 year old on a limited contract to get their revenge. The way they will present it, either Sting or Vince will 'save' the Zigglers and the Rybacks of the world, because God forbid they do anything on their own.
Kevin Kelly: "Mr. Austin, would you like to comment on Wade Keller's Take that endorsing the XFL hurts your anti-authority character?"
Steve Austin: "Oh shit, he actually said that? I thought the boys in the back were ribbing me!"
Kelly: "No, he really said that. Did they tell you the part about you sitting in the stands, looking all skeptical?"
Austin: "AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah... oh man that was too much."
Originally posted by Tenken347RAW is now a garbage show for garbage people. It is very frustrating.
I DON'T LIKE SOMETHING SO THEREFORE IT'S GARBAGE AND EVERYONE WHO DOES ENJOY IS OBVIOUSLY TERRIBLE TOO.
Quite frankly, everybody's reaction previously was "I hate how everything is centred around one person why are they not building up new people" yet when they do focus on Ziggler, Barrett, Reigns, Harper, Rollins, everybody is like "this is terrible, I don't care about these people".
Sorry, "Garbage blank for garbage people" is just something I say when I'm very upset about something. If anybody out there (yourself included) is enjoying any of this, more power to you, 'cause is sure as shit ain't my cup of tea.
Your other point is actually my point exactly. All of those guys are guys I want, desperately want to be invested in, but the booking around them is killing them for me. They're all doing stuff, but it's dumb stuff, or nonsense stuff, or stuff without any sense of long-term direction - see my earlier comment about Wade Barrett, a guy who I think it's a crime he hasn't already been a world champion, and is easily one of the top ten talents on the entire roster.
Originally posted by Tenken347Your other point is actually my point exactly. All of those guys are guys I want, desperately want to be invested in, but the booking around them is killing them for me. They're all doing stuff, but it's dumb stuff, or nonsense stuff, or stuff without any sense of long-term direction - see my earlier comment about Wade Barrett, a guy who I think it's a crime he hasn't already been a world champion, and is easily one of the top ten talents on the entire roster.
Wade Barrett is just coming off of a long-term injury, Ziggler was just champion (and a major player in an Authority main event), Roman Reigns is pretty much becoming the face of the company, Seth Rollins is becoming the top heel of the company. I don't see how any of them haven't been given the opportunity.
Awful. I thought at the end Steph was pointing into the crowd at the one person that might have been giving them heat, but I'm pretty sure it was just at the confetti and balloons falling. Why are they back? Rollins was doing a great job getting heat post-Authority, and really doesn't need them around.
The Ascension comes out, tries for cheap heat by going after Demolition and the Road Warriors, and quickly gets buried. At this point, why would anyone in NXT want to be called up to the main roster? You're working a better show, and if you do get called up, you risk being hung out to dry, unless they are really, really behind you.
Up until a couple of years ago, they seemed to always have Mania planned out and ready to go, with a couple of exceptions. I look forward to the day when you can say that's the case once again.
After an evening to think about it, I've come to the conclusion that RAW is, at least at this point, simply not worth watching. Period. At this point it's more of an exercise in frustration and seeing what else I can watch while I wait for something, ANYTHING worthwhile to happen. But that's not going to happen, not while HHH and Steph have their boots firmly on the throats of the people who work for them. I'll probably check back in here now and then and see if anything actually happens that's worth tuning in for, but after the worst RAW I've seen in years, I severely doubt their ability to come up with a decent story without being dragged into it by the nose.
Also, I have to agree that being called up from NXT is at this point one of the worst things that can happen to you. You go from a superior show with a hot crowd that loves you to a piece of shit show with fans who know they're at a piece of shit show and just didn't have anything better to do that night, and both bookers and announcers seem to take delight in burying every new prospect that comes up to the main roster.
TNA cannot possibly come back fast enough for me. Please, PLEASE rescue me from this god-awful excuse for a wrestling show. At this point I'd rather watch WCW.
Originally posted by Packman V2At this point, why would anyone in NXT want to be called up to the main roster?
Because they look at what Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns are doing. To a lesser extent, they see what Dean Ambrose & Bray Wyatt are doing. Rusev isn't doing too bad for himself either.
Originally posted by Packman V2At this point, why would anyone in NXT want to be called up to the main roster?
Because they look at what Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns are doing. To a lesser extent, they see what Dean Ambrose & Bray Wyatt are doing. Rusev isn't doing too bad for himself either.
This is a very good point. You can add Paige to this list too, even though their use of her hasn't been quite top notch yet. The NXT callups that haven't worked out (Bo Dallas, Emma, Adam Rose) all had gimmicks that worked really well in the vacuum of Full Sail, but were brought to the main roster with no tweaking at all. The jury is still out on The Ascension. Their squash match style was over in Full Sail, but at least the main roster writers tried to tweak them a bit. (Plus, they're kind of...not good.)
I definitely see Zayn, Neville, Itami, Balor, and Owens' call-ups being more like The Shield and Rusev than Bo/Emma/Rose. Though, the rumored "Mighty Mouse" gimmick for Neville has me worried a bit.
(edited by SchippeWreck on 6.1.15 1213) Everything is awesome.
Originally posted by Packman V2At this point, why would anyone in NXT want to be called up to the main roster?
Because they look at what Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns are doing. To a lesser extent, they see what Dean Ambrose & Bray Wyatt are doing. Rusev isn't doing too bad for himself either.
Exactly this. It's doom and gloom because they're not using "our" guys in ways that we want them to be used, but those mentioned, along with Paige (despite my not liking her act) are doing very well for themselves. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. It's more dim for some than others, but it's there and it can be reached. Also, Daniel Bryan.
Originally posted by Tenken347Your other point is actually my point exactly. All of those guys are guys I want, desperately want to be invested in, but the booking around them is killing them for me. They're all doing stuff, but it's dumb stuff, or nonsense stuff, or stuff without any sense of long-term direction - see my earlier comment about Wade Barrett, a guy who I think it's a crime he hasn't already been a world champion, and is easily one of the top ten talents on the entire roster.
Wade Barrett is just coming off of a long-term injury, Ziggler was just champion (and a major player in an Authority main event), Roman Reigns is pretty much becoming the face of the company, Seth Rollins is becoming the top heel of the company. I don't see how any of them haven't been given the opportunity.
Wade Barrett: I thought I addressed this, but Barrett came back as a hot face last week, only to be turned heel for exactly no reason this week. Facey/Heely is a great way to make it feel like a guy has no direction and no purpose. He's just whatever we need on a given Monday.
Dolph Ziggler: Just got "fired" last night, and that either means that he'll be gone for a couple weeks (and therefore the show's missing a guy that I care about), or much more likely he won't miss even an hour of television, making the whole angle dumb and pointless, because stipulations are dumb and pointless if you don't honor them.
Roman Reigns: You could probably just Google search the board for this one, but they're overpushing their hand on him, and it's starting to backlash. They've stopped doing all the things that made him the cool guy in the SHIELD, and he's not good enough to do John Cena's shtick and get any traction with it. That Superman promo last night was painful to listen to.
Seth Rollins: Poor, poor Seth. Since his heel turn last summer, he's beaten one(1) guy cleanly - Randy Orton, which has had no follow-up on it since the night it happened. Seth wins a lot, but he never beats anybody. He's the biggest chickenshit heel, and aside from the fact that I loath chickenshit heels, they've turned it up so far with him that I can't invest in any of his matches because I anticipate a bullshit finish. For all that he actually does seem to be their golden boy in real life, their booking of the guy has just absolutely killed all of my interest in him, and I don't think I'm the only person who feels that way.
Again, that's me. I'm not telling you you're wrong for liking the direction of things. Hell, I'm the one who's wrong, because the show's clearly being booked for you, not for me. I just keep hoping for a change, because the well of talent on the roster is the greatest it's ever been, and there are so, so many guys who I want to see succeed.
The Authority angle would be way more tolerable if this company, which normally does not believe in subtlety, would just beat people over the head with the point that "best for business" is code for "whatever HHH wants." Michael Cole, Cantankerous Award-Winning Rogue Journalist, could do it. That might even resonate with people in a way that transcends wrestling.
The last segment could have been better. The balloons and confetti were a copout. They should've just gone with the shit.
Originally posted by PowerPB13It wasn't easy breaking a twenty-two-year habit of always turning on the TV for wrestling on Monday nights...but this was a start.
DVR makes this so much easier to do. Work late, eat dinner, go shopping. Start watching a few minutes after 8 (central) and be caught up to live by 9:30.
Originally posted by Packman V2At this point, why would anyone in NXT want to be called up to the main roster?
I'll guess that the payout for being the #2 match on a WWE card is higher than the payout for the main event on an NXT card, plus they get to get a house-based paycheck 4 times a week.
As I heard more and more talk about the OVW guys getting dark matches and such, I've been trying to read up on everyone as best I can. I really want to give these guys a chance (especially Leviathan and Waterman)