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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw 11-8-04
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ScreamingHeadGuy
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Since: 1.2.02
From: Appleton, WI

Since last post: 784 days
Last activity: 784 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.27
It's Raw, live from somewhere in Texas...and a Fashion Report, too!

Joined in progress, HHH, in black ironcross faceprint tshirt and black ironcross undies, the Heavyweight Title over his shoulder, ranting in the ring, with Batista, in black "Batista" undies with flaming crotch. Apparently Flair's injured, so he won't be seen tonight. HHH riffs on Bisch, which brings out the erstwhile GM, in black leather jacket, black shirt and black slacks (welcome back, DeadCowMan). HHH throttles Bisch, and Bisch makes threats of stripping HHH (the ladies like, no?)...of the Title. There's way too much heel-on-heel tension; I smell a swerve. Bisch reiterates the Survivor Series match's stipulations. Then Bisch demands a match...right now.

Batista, already in the ring, vs. Orton, in red "Orton" undies with black hip scrawls. Mike Chioda officiates in the vertical black and white stripes. The main camera IS camera right (not just a handheld). Hey, guys, here's some of the awesomeness of AdBreak.

Cont. Er...begun? Back-and-forth. Orton with a comeback, which gets the crowd into it. Of course HHH interferes, and Chioda tosses him to the back for it; see HHH throw a tantrum (mucho heat). Just when Batista gets back into the ring and the action picks-up, AdBreak barges in, AGAIN. (No, couldn't possibly do the ads while the heels were arguing on the outside with the ref.)

Cont. Batista is in charge. During the break, Orton was getting his butt kicked, too. Batista gets nearfalls, but Randy is too gutsy to stay down for three. Batista looks to have a split lip (maybe he needs some lip balm...winter is coming soon). Randy, dude, put that package away. Wow - Orton with a falling dropkick while in the corner. Orton bites Batista's forehead, and Batista dutifully blades a trickle. Powerbomb refersed to a sunset flip for two. Orton with the inside cradle->pin. Post-match, the guys trade stares. Randy quickly beats feet up the aisle, so there's no The Pose. No "Aren't I beautiful?", "I feel the need to make sure you know it.", and "You do know it, right??" (sorry ladies).

In the back, Randy, Maven, Benoit, and Jericho all hang out. Randy is totally psyched. Batista is dumb and attacks obviously superiour odds. Fortunatly for the big heel, refs and stagecrew are around to do the pull-apart.

JR, in black suit, blue shirt, tie, black hat with red hanky, and Lawler, in sparkly black/white striped shirt with gold scrawls, introduce FOOTAGE! from Taboo Tuesday of Edge's heelish action of leaving Benoit to face La Resistance all alone. And of Edge walking-in and walking-out of last week's Tag Title match. And the post-match beating.

FOOTAGE! of Benoit, after last week's Raw, cutting a promo on Edge, promising to do bad things to Edge tonight.

FOOTAGE! of the Detroit Pistons wearing title belts.

Tomko, in black undies with red butt jags, with Christian!, in plumb shirt vs. Shelton, in blue fullcut undies with silver trim, wearing the IC Title. Jack Doan is the referee. On the outside, Christian! gets-in what licks he can. Shelton with a slam->pin. Post-match, Shelton and Christian! share a stare.

Smackdown! sucks. Here's some FOOTAGE! to prove it.

In the back, Trish strikes a sultry pose for her mirror...and some guys' hands (I assume).

Highlight Reel. Jericho hosts, in "Y2J" globe tshrit with red shoulders, with Chad "I'll allow it" Patton. Trish, in black tied-up shirt and hip huggers, Women's Title over her shoulder, and Lita, in black half tanktop with neon-green net (like she escaped from a fishing vessel) and camo pants. Trish palys heel to the hilt; Lita plays pissed-off face. Why does Lita get a title shot? Oh yeah - 'cuz WW cut all the women who could actually wrestle. Just when I'm about to channel flip, out comes Snitsky, carrying a baby doll. Aw - this is uber-heel fucking greatness! Wow - Snitsky got some pretty good distance on that baby-punt. Then Jericho does the chivalrous thing by pounding the snot out of Snitsky. But Snitscy comes back and destructifies Jericho. Hail Snitsky!

Moments ago...man that was a long paragraph.

Fuck you, Simon Dean. More acurately, Fuck You, WW. I'm channel-flipping. Culpepper is under center. The Colts wear blue, the Vikes (who totally suck, BTW) wear pussy white. Man, that game's going pretty fast. Ow - that's a good, clean shot on Campbell. Fuck, Dean's still on. Well, time to type.

Here's some Army men (and women...I think).

HHH, in same as before, wearing the Title, with FOOTAGE! of Tajiri's impersonation from last week vs. Tajiri, in black pants with dragon and flaming left hem. Snitsky attacks before Tajiri makes it to the ring. Check that - no match. HHH congratulates Snitsky for his efforts and offers his hand. But Snitsky builds heel tesnion by declaring that, should their team win, he'll be coming after HHH's title.

Hassan - he's an American, too. Don't fuck with us on this one, WW writers.

Cole and Tazz jack off...or something. I don't really know. I didn't pay attention. Then King and JR try to jack off, too. But they're so old that they just run-down the Survivor Series card. Fuck you, Lawler.

BlondeBimbo, in black (well, I'd at least give those breasts a going-over) interviews Edge, who has a book. I mean his book. A book about him, that is. Dang, Blondie, if you didn't have that vacant stare in your eyes, I'd really think you were hot. HHH stops

by for a visit, drinking some ice-cold water, and more heel tension is built; for Edge, too, declares that he'll be coming after HHH's title. Man, this is all kind of evil-turning-upon-itself stuff here.

In the Evolution lockerroom, HHH and Batista pow-wow. Well, HHH complains and Batista is the good friend, listening to the other rant. But see Batista hold HHH's belt, looking at it longingly. Oh, foreshadowing.

Lillian, in red, introduces Christy, in black, who introduces the match's participants. Edge, in black trenchcoat and faceprint tights, with crappy music, vs. Benoit, in blue "4Real" tights with red slashes. Chad "I'll allow it" Patton is the official for this match. They do their thing, but eventually AdBreak comes out to see what's going on.

Cont. Out come HHH and Batista, looking threatening. Then out comes Randy, Jericho,and Maven. Edge bleeds. Post-match, a brawl breaks out among the men at ringside. Snitsky runs down to join in the brawl. In the end, the faces control the ring and stares are shared.

Overall: The show was alright, except for the Dean crap which I refuse to watch. It's one thing to have a gimmick, it's another to have a gimmick that is just stupid. I can only hope that the writers use tact with the Hassan character.

Taboo Tuesday really fucked-up the pacing of things. The build to Survivor Series seems rushed.



I'm ScreamingHeadGuy, and I approve this post.

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geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.29
FINALLY Bischoff has stopped being a pussy heel GM and grew some balls. They should've done this MONTHS ago....The Orton/Batista match was good, but the first half was not. What percent of Orton's offense was just punching? I mean jeez, mix it up a little...Nice touch airing a Benoit interview from after the match last week....Not much to the Tomko/Benjamin match. Benjamin didn't get as much face heat as I thought he would....

I was afraid the fans would actually be pro-Snitsky, but not so. Kicking a baby..wow. That is bad ass. His promos continue to be disjointed and strange-sounding. And Lita was not looking too good tonight....Not a good decision to have the Highlight Reel/Simon System back-to-back. I thought fans wouldn't buy Simon, but they got a nice "asshole" chant going....

I thought the face teams were supposed to be the vulnerable ones? Isn't that like booking 101?....I think the WWE is playing the Hassan character perfectly thus far....Edge/Benoit was pretty decent. Nice to see they actually have something for Christy, the divasearch winner, to do (/sarcasm).




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Freeway
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 340 days
Last activity: 28 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.26
Witness the startling contrast between Mohammad Hassan and Simon Dean. Dean berates people. Why? Is there some reason this guy's like this? Hassan's just frustrated about Arabic stereotyping since 9/11. He has feelings. This has been done well...hopefully they don't screw it up.

Fairly average RAW. Didn't make me want to buy the PPV particularly, though.



DVDs; Blog
Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 30 days
Last activity: 2 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.79

This whole baby killer shit has gotta stop ... it's real sensitive to me know since my wife and I just found out that she's about 4 weeks pregnant (YAY!) ... it's just a cheap way to get heel heat, and frankly it sucks.

Other than that, not really an entertaining show ...
Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 43 days
Last activity: 30 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.72
The Simon Dean character is pretty much guaranteed to fail. Are they going to do the same damn segment every week, or finally have him wrestle?

Speaking of new characters, I noticed that they haven't had Mohammed Hassan say "Praise be to Allah" at the end of the most recent segments. In fact, on Heat, they aired an alternative version of the same promo he gave on last week's RAW without the "praise be to Allah" at the end of it. I wonder if that's intentional (if so, it'd be a good call on their part). And what was up with the funky edit between Hassan's speech and his manager's translation?

I hate to say it, but the highlight of this show HAD to be Snitsky punting the fake baby into the crowd, and guys in the crowd rushing to catch it like it was a bouquet. It's the first time in awhile I've gotten a call during RAW pertaining to what was going on (two even!). As awkward as his delivery is, I can't help but find it inexplicably fascinating enthralling interesting hilarious.

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 8.11.04 2344)


'Pro-Choice' Gene Snitsky says:
"Her body...MY CHOICE!"



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Since: 16.3.04
From: Albuquerque, NM

Since last post: 84 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.22
I wasn't feeling Raw much tonight, outside of the opening match. Was hoping for something to get me motivated to spend 35 bucks to get Survivor Series. After tonight, I'm positive I'll be saving my 35 bucks...and using it elsewhere.





GO PACK GO!!!
chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

Since last post: 2723 days
Last activity: 2723 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.81
It's pretty lame when they use the red-hat wearing sign guy (who seems to be in the front row every other week for either RAW or Smackdown) in the Simon Dean segment as a plant. The red-headed woman was too obviously a plant, herself, and meanwhile, the whole time Simon was berating her, I was wondering why they didn't just choose to go after a real fan like the 400 lb woman who was standing a few rows back. This whole Simon thing is such a tired the way they're choosing to go through with this, and it's only been two weeks.

Here's a thought: bring Stevie Richards into the angle as a deciple type of character - someone who believes in Simon's system. They have good chemistry from the bWo days, and what they're doing right now doesn't look like it's going anywhere close to a wrestling match in the near future.



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Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 1977 days
Last activity: 1945 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.69
While they are treading a REALLY thin line with the Mohammad Hassan character, I must say that, so far, they've done a good job with it. I've only seen two promos, and I already know his character as well as the character's motivation. This could be a great gimmick as long as they don't do something over the line (I agree that taking out the 'Praise Allah' line was a good move, as it was just a cheap (and offensive) way to get heat when the character doesn't need it).

Also, I must say that WWE has done a great job in stumbling into booking Gene Snitsky like a monster. Over the past few years, it seems that whenever WWE tries to book a guy to get over, they do something stupid and end up failing. However, Gene has been booked tremendously. I just hope that his possible match with Hunter in a few weeks doesn't do any damage (Gene can't job to Triple H, but he can't win the belt at this point either).

Oh, and I love Trish Stratus as a heel. I thought everyone should know that.



The answer to WWE's financial problems...

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Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 6 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.13
    Originally posted by Freeway420
    Witness the startling contrast between Mohammad Hassan and Simon Dean. Dean berates people. Why? Is there some reason this guy's like this? Hassan's just frustrated about Arabic stereotyping since 9/11. He has feelings. This has been done well...hopefully they don't screw it up.

    Fairly average RAW. Didn't make me want to buy the PPV particularly, though.


Even if they handle it well, he's going to be a heel. I mean, when they swing through the Bible belt, I don't care how three-dimensional they make him out to be, he's going to be hated on. The only way around it is to make his translator more heelish hinging on anti-American, and Hassan goes along with it to a point and then turns on him and picks up old glory and starts a USA chant. And then we're left with an Arab Jim Duggan.

I really like the heels not getting along. It is far more realistic than some kind of automatic spiritual bond forged from the white hot flame of the common evil that flows through them. Bad people are just as likely to fuck with other bad people as good ones. I also like Bischoff standing up for himself. I mean, the man DOES have balls, he took McMahon and nearly ran him into the ground like every wrestling promoter of the last thirty years would have LOVED to do. So we know he's not a bitch, it's time for him to start acting like the person he is. Besides, a guy who always makes the decisions the fans hate would never be able to keep a job that directly caters to a fanbase, even within the context of the show. It also sucks the life out of the product.

Simon IS getting old fast. Call me a *spoilsport, but I don't like seeing people degraded, even if they're in on it.

Nice main event.





Hot Virgins-The World's Most Steadily Shrinking Commodity
Amazing Telephone
Salami








Since: 12.12.02
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba

Since last post: 305 days
Last activity: 3 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.61
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    And then we're left with an Arab Jim Duggan.


Which would be a great name for a ska band.

Snitsky and the punt of fear was classic. Had I my way, Snitsky would punt a doll as part of his entrance. There's a baby sitting right in the middle of the entranceway, right at the top of the ramp, then the music cues up and -- POW! -- Gene Snitsky runs out from behind the curtain at full speed and punts that baby as far as he can.

There's just so much one can do with the gag, you know? Have him come out with the T-shirt launcher, but instead of T-shirts -- surprise! Doll babies flying into the crowd! Here, catch!

Yes, it's pretty stupid, but it's the kind of stupid that works. And, really, isn't that what wrestling is all about?
jwrestle
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Since: 4.4.03
From: Nitro WV

Since last post: 203 days
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.91
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    I really like the heels not getting along. It is far more realistic than some kind of automatic spiritual bond forged from the white hot flame of the common evil that flows through them. Bad people are just as likely to fuck with other bad people as good ones. I also like Bischoff standing up for himself. I mean, the man DOES have balls, he took McMahon and nearly ran him into the ground like every wrestling promoter of the last thirty years would have LOVED to do. So we know he's not a bitch, it's time for him to start acting like the person he is. Besides, a guy who always makes the decisions the fans hate would never be able to keep a job that directly caters to a fan base, even within the context of the show. It also sucks the life out of the product.


BINGO!!! You hit the nail on the head Hogan! I am totally digging the heels not getting along. The realism factor is off the hook because Snitkey, I like to punt babies, was awesome confronting ole HHH. Only a few months with company and he was like if we win you're going down H. Then Edge may be a heel but he hates H more than "the fans". Bishoff isn't a pus and it's about time they let him get a bit off the handle. It all goes back to the age old speech by Vinnie Mac saying that the WWE are all shades of "gray" and it's very evident at this juncture in current stories.

Anyways...I don't know why Simon isn't getting love from some of you all but I think he's the Body Donnas gimmick turned up to the MAX. I know the WWE is trying to bring in Hassan in as a face but I swear it's going to be a close call. Orton vs Batista was a great opener and went pretty long. I really liked the flow of the show and I noticed, as Screaming Head Guy mentioned, that the build does seem rushed some what. Shelton vs Tomko was pretty descent. Lita vs Trish looks ok but once again, I'm mentioning somebody else's words, they fired to women that could wrestle. Finally the cluster f*ck at the end to lead us into Survivor Series this Sunday. I love the show and am ready to see what this Sunday end up being.



J.J. Dillon: "I'd rather flip burgers at McDonald's than work for Vince McMahon again." July, 3 2004 New Era Of Wrestling
Karlos the Jackal
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

Since last post: 44 days
Last activity: 5 min.
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by geemoney
    Nice to see they actually have something for Christy, the divasearch winner, to do (/sarcasm).
Pfft, yeah. Especially since they've apparently hired one of the losers to be their new interviewer.

--K




(edited by Karlos the Jackal on 9.11.04 0015)


Last 5 movies seen: The Clearing - Tom Dowd & The Language of Music - Our Mr. Sun - Around the World in 80 Days ('04) - Billy Elliot
Kevintripod
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Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

Since last post: 24 min.
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
Ten people from the WWE recently get their walking papers, and now Lillian has to watch Christy come down to the ring and do the match introduction.

I can almost see Vince standing next to Lillian backstage after the show saying: "Yep......it suuuuuuure would be nice if you would change your mind and finially be in our next diva swimsuit photo shoot. Also you doing a Thanksgiving gravy bowl match and a couple bra & panty matches would really be appreciated......(As Vince walks away and begins whistling), but I guess you really don't have to do it if you really don't want to."



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Shem the Penman
Toulouse








Since: 16.1.02
From: The Off-Center of the Universe (aka Philadelphia)

Since last post: 299 days
Last activity: 98 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
I guess I'm easily pleased (this week, at least), because I can't gripe too much about a show that's bookended by two good, long matches. Orton/Batista was a teensy bit too repetitive, but hey, it's the first long Orton match I can recall that didn't involve him slapping on a chinlock. Loved the Cactus Jack clothesline, too. I think this match was a sign that both these guys are learning fast, and that can only mean good things for the future. And Edge/Benoit was solid up until the predictable ending. Edge seemed to be working a bit stiffer than he usually does, which is all to the good.

Low point of the night? Lawler bleating "I see panties!" when the blonde Simon Dean victim was climbing back over the barricade. Just shut up.

I wish they'd done more to build up the face team at SS, though. As it stands, they're just an assortment of random guys. Would it have killed the bookers to give 'em a scene backstage talking about the match to show what they have invested in it, instead of spending so much time on the Everyone Wants Triple H angle?



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Madison, WI

Since last post: 557 days
Last activity: 26 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.22
    Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
      Originally posted by geemoney
      Nice to see they actually have something for Christy, the divasearch winner, to do (/sarcasm).
    Pfft, yeah. Especially since they've apparently hired one of the losers to be their new interviewer.

    --K



Come on - you should know by now that WWE will always give us what VKM thinks that we want, or - more precisely - what VKM wants. Look at the latest Tough Enough (if you can stomach it ). The public can vote for whoever they want, and the winner will probably make a good OVW mid-carder - but whoever VKM thinks would make a good "hoss" will actually grace our TV screens.

Steph



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Since: 12.2.02
From: Cleveland, Ohio

Since last post: 26 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.55
    Originally posted by Mayhem

    This whole baby killer shit has gotta stop ... it's real sensitive to me know since my wife and I just found out that she's about 4 weeks pregnant (YAY!) ... it's just a cheap way to get heel heat, and frankly it sucks.

    Other than that, not really an entertaining show ...

Hey, congrats! Our little one turns 8 months on Friday. My wife was not thrilled at all about the "punt of fear", but this is completely over the top such that *nobody* should be worried that it's real. This goes with the disclaimer that I would certainly *not* let my kiddo watch this. Myself, I laughed my ass off because that was just soooo ridiculous and a hell of a punt.

Orton - after that match, why not just change his name to "Lance Uppercut"? (TM - Simpsons) Sheesh!

They cut Gail Kim, then show her on the replay from last week. Ooooookay. The wife was happy as she never liked Gail since she waltzed in and won the title right away.

(edit) Oh yeah, and the Simon Dean segment sucked, too. Yeah, you're a heel. This one-trick pony has already gotten real old, real fast.

(edited by whatever on 9.11.04 0830)


"Lita holds a Stone Cold Steve Austin home pregnancy test. What will the Bottom Line say? “Hell Yeah” or “Eh-EH”?" - Raw Satire, 6/15/04

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - George W. Bush

geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

Since last post: 9 days
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.29
Forgot to mention- the first thing I noticed about the show was the hard camera either facing the other way, or the ramp was on the other side of the camera- it was on the left of the screen instead of the right.

I guess when you've watched wrestling for years, things like that really stick out.



College, Sports and more!: Experience It
too-old-now
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Since: 7.1.04

Since last post: 1334 days
Last activity: 259 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.58
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I thought Simon Dean played the shitty segment well - yeah it's badly written, but I laughed out loud a couple of times since it's supposed to be predictable, and supposed to be BAD.

How many times do we hear complaints about the Fed is not developing characters, or rushing things.

Simon Dean deserves a lot of credit for taking a crappy angle and running with it.

This week's segment was slightly different than last week, and Simon moved things along much better. I can't believe I'm the only one who thought "Only 19 more bottles to go!" was funny.

So, Simon is getting heel heat, and hasn't wrestled yet. Trying to figure out where he goes from here, and looking at the midcard roster of who hasn't been cut, I'm thinking he's gonna go get Viscera to sign on as a follower, and they'll feud with Hurricane/Rosey. It could work, but they have to be careful not to make it last 20 minutes...
Jim Smith
Goetta








Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

Since last post: 2335 days
Last activity: 1766 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.75
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Even if they handle it well, he's going to be a heel. I mean, when they swing through the Bible belt, I don't care how three-dimensional they make him out to be, he's going to be hated on.


Let's be fair here--he's going to be hated on because he's blanketly accusing all non-Arab Americans of discriminating against him because he's Arab. It's no different than Teddy Long's Raw stable getting heal heat last year by complaining about "whitey" holding the brothers down. People weren't booing Long because he's black--they were booing him because people hate being called racists for no good reason. They also don't like characters in wrestling blaming their problems on everyone but themselves.

What makes the Hassan angle uncomfortable is that people have a good reason to boo him--he's implying that the audience is bigoted. But all anyone's going to see is a bunch of redneck rasslin' fans booing some poor Arab guy desperately insisting that he's not a terrorist. The same thing bugged me during the Long angle--instead of pitting the audience against his stable of heels, his promos pitted black against white, and since the heels were black the audience had to side with white and sound like a bunch of Klansmen.

Case in point--it's already assumed the Bible Belt is going to brand him as a heathen terrorist, so even if we boo him for the right reasons over here, it's going to be interpreted the wrong way.
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 3593 days
Last activity: 3593 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.43
It was a good Raw. I flipped back and forth while Simon was on, I was thinking it would be a good time for an Austin cameo when he started saying how Texas sucked. Alas, we are stuck with another boring and irritating segment. I agree the baby killer thing is just wrong, what is wronger than that is the monster push Gene will be getting soon. I am so bored with big men anymore that if Gene would pull out a shooting star press, I'd yawn.

I loved how the One Belt to rule them all tempeted everyone. The Batista and belt since was awesome. Orton/Batista should be a good fued after Wrestlemania and Benoit/Edge is going to be an awesome fued after Survivor Series. Both the matches were great and I can't wait to see those guys go at on a PPV.



"All faith reguires is giving into the possibility of hope."
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For those of us in Canada...check out the National Post this weekend. In their Saturday Night magazine insert, there's a pretty decent interview with Vampiro. I found it to be a decent read.
- Oliver, Vampiro interview (2003)
Related threads: RAW Workrate Report Nov 1 - Raw 11-1-04 - RAW Workrate Report 10/25/04 - More...
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