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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW 11/29/04
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Y2J 420
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Since: 2.12.03
From: Illinois

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.36
Surely that main event finish made it seem like Dusty Rhodes was booking RAW as well as TNA...

Too much BS Diva air time for my liking...

Hey Orton, Batista is more over than you...



OverpusHHHed...Patterson was right...

"Win if you can, lose if you must, but in the end, always cheat..." - Jesse "the Body" Ventura
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Gugs
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Since: 9.7.02
From: Sleep (That's where I'm a viking)

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.08
I can't believe they went the Bret/Luger Rumble finish.

Twice.

Next week, though, Raw...is...JERICHO!



"He is the most overrated piece of crap in the league. He bitched and whined after he got his ass beaten in New England last year, so the NFL changed the rules. Then he got his ass beaten in New England again. Every year he's the top MVP candidate. Every year he's supposed to be the best. Every year he's going to carry the Colts to the Super Bowl. And every single year he goes to New England and gets his ass beaten. And his brother's a whiny little bitch." -A friend of mine, on Peyton Manning

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Freeway
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44
So-so RAW. It's six weeks until their next PPV, so what do you expect?

Too few matches, too much reliance on T&A and Benoit's workrate. Honestly, he spent nearly 40 minutes of a free-TV show in the ring. There's more guys on the show than Benoit, Evolution, Orton and the Divas. I'd like to see 'em once in a while is all.



"Illusions, Michael. A trick is something a whore does for money...or candy!" - G.O.B. Bluth, Arrested Development

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Since: 23.8.04

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
The teasing with Batista is so much fun. When he knocked Flair out of the ring, I started screaming and scared my poor little girl.

redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.52
Vince knows who Stevie Richards is? Now, is that a good thing or a bad thing for Stevie.
I say the winner of the first match was obvious: It was Mr. Wonderful Paul Orndorff, as his leg clearly hit the ground first. Even senior ref Danny Davis believed so.
Maven turns. As a face, I thought he was a waste of DNA. As a heel, I think he is a waste of DNA. Well, at least he is consistant.
First Lawler/Flair match since '85. The words AWA World Champion and Kerry Von Erich World Class Champion used. Decent for what it was, I guess Flair is finally getting moved from being a major wrestler to a legend/special attraction. And, for his birthday, it seemed Lawler was being punished. First, he jobbed. Second, they have a lingerie fashion show without him making comments.
I wouldn't call the main event a Classic Dusty Finish. For that to happen, Benoit would have been awarded the belt and the fans would have left celebrating, only to have it reversed a few days later. This was just lazy booking, as they inadverantly proved why a title match should be a 3 way dance rather than triple threat. Vacant title with a tourney in Puerto Rico in early January makes sense, as they will need a hook to get people to buy a stand-alone show in the same month as a Big 4 show.



(edited by redsoxnation on 29.11.04 2324)

Money is no replacement for the love of a good woman. Real estate, especially in the current marketplace, is another story.
Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.26

More importantly, how about Vince calling out Stevie and then Stevie makes it to the final 6!!!

I enjoyed the finish for some reason. It had the "soap opera" element to it. Something tells me that the strap will end up around Trips' waist next week.

Maven, heel turn, finally.





Uh ... Happy Yuletide or something ...
Y2J 420
Italian
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Since: 2.12.03
From: Illinois

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.36
Well when next week's RAW comes around and somehow Triple H is able to retain "his" title, the Dusty finish will be complete...

Benoit or Edge holding the title has more fan support than Triple H holding it...



OverpusHHHed...Patterson was right...

"Win if you can, lose if you must, but in the end, always cheat..." - Jesse "the Body" Ventura
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.87
RAW Thoughts:

The opening with McMahon made NO sense. How could he just come out and say Triple H can't be in the battle royal? Isn't Orton the GM, who ordered it? And if you say "well, McMahon can override Orton", how come he said the decision on the winner of the battle royal was Orton's and he couldn't help?....I noticed Vince's pause- did he forget Stevie's name?....Pretty decent battle royal, with a finish I'd like to never see again. Oh, and Flair's overreaction to getting eliminated was a 10 on the "Ric Flair crazy-old-man scale"...A Maven heel turn? Eh, as long as he doesn't join Evolution....The women's match was pretty blase, and the fans didn't seem to be behind it....Too bad Lawler tried to play the face- the crowd wasn't buying it. And Flair almost landed on his head on that back-body drop....Sorry, but unless the divas are naked, this stuff is pretty pointless. And takes up WAY too much time. The best part-

Coach: Come on JR, admit it- this is the closest you've ever come to having sex.
JR: (dryly) I have two kids.

The tag match was too short....Good tease for RAW next week with Jericho and Trish....The average triple threat match was ruined by a terrible WCW-ish ending to the show....Not a great effort tonight.



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Kishke








Since: 14.7.03
From: Uglyville

Since last post: 2369 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.87
Ya know, why are the filling RAW will untalented, wastes of space DIVA rejects? Oh boy, I bet Stacey's mom was happy to see her daughter stripping on live TV. Real classy. I rather see Carmella back on RAW than those new whores.

Next week, we need Piper to ref the Edge vs Benoit match just for old times sake. I would say get Mr Perfect, but that isnt really possible.

I loved the whole Stevie Richards stuff. He started going apeshit in the ring when he was in the final 6. That was just funny.

Also, am I the only one who could FEEL the ratings skyrocket with that Maven turn? Reminds me of every Mark Henry turn ever.





I miss the GWF.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.26
Laaaaaaaaame. Lame lame lame. The battle royal cop-out capped by the triple-threat cop-out. Very unsatisfying. The guy getting screwed in all this is Edge, who can't seem to gather any momentum in his push to the main event. He would be aided greatly by, oh I don't know, a win.

The women's match seemed oddly out of joint, as if no one could get on the same page. Even simple maneuvers appeared sloppy. You don't expect all the women to have a bad night at the same time. Even Trish was having trouble timing the kicks.

Maven turns on Eugene. So he's gonna need a partner to challenge for the tag titles, meaing Tajiri/Rhyno, La Res and Hurricane/Rosey take a back seat. I'm all for new teams, but who can give Maven an entertaining leg up in that feud? Snitsky? Is there nothing else he can do until Kane returns?

Flair/Lawler was about as thrilling as any match with these two could be at this point in the careers. Chop, chop, punch, sloppy body slam, leaping fists, figure four. Night-night. At least Flair won, as Mrs. Tracker pointed out, because Flair's had the most recent ring experience. I look forward to JR chiding Lawler about this for some time.

A really weak show, I thought, despite some significant energy in the main event. Nothing really came together as one would hope.





"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Shem the Penman
Toulouse








Since: 16.1.02
From: The Off-Center of the Universe (aka Philadelphia)

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.52
Not sure how I feel about the finish ... I think it'll depend on where they go with this next week:

-- Trips and Orton go off into their own feud, while Benoit and Edge have a title match at the next PPV: all right, but needlessly complicated.

-- Triple threat rematch on Raw or the next PPV, or Jericho makes a four-way with himself added in: Feh. Waste of time.

-- Draw, Trips retains: Hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.

Look on the bright side -- no Simon Dean segment. (Yeah, I know, he's probably on Heat.)

So Jan the Makeup Lady will lose her few on-camera appearances to the bimbo in the black dress? Poor Jan. 1999-2004.



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jwrestle
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Since: 4.4.03
From: Nitro WV

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.27
    Originally posted by geemoney
    RAW Thoughts:

    The opening with McMahon made NO sense.


Actually it did because from what is said in the Edge/Spoiler thread dear Randal F*CKED up last week. Anyways, over it was good show. Slow in spots with unneeded content that I do agree with some of the other W's.

-Maven, about time! Eugene CAN SPELL TITLE!

-People pop for Monsters in the ring. Batista vs. Snitskey=MONEY

-Hmm...about time the pulled double finishes. Last one was Taker and somebody...anybody recall?

-The womens match was pretty watchable...Victoria almost had a wardrobe malfunction...I kept waiting for another suplex so they'd rip off...NO SUCH LUCK! Darn them for noticing.

-Battle Royal was cool...about the first 30 minutes of the show had actual wrestling.

Now where is that world title going next week? Tourney? Another Battle Royal? Something, anybody, help?



(edited by jwrestle on 30.11.04 0025)



The next WWE Creative person that says, "We don't have anything for you", gets a free rectal exam!

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Cerebus
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Since: 17.11.02

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.34
I guess I'm the only one here who actually WANTED to see Lawler vs. Flair. I screamed like a school girl. I only wish they gave these two more time and skipped the diva crap...

What a sad, pathetic person I must be to rather see two old guys gong at it instead of half naked women. Where ARE my priorities? Ah well, I got better, in my eyes at least.



Cerebus: RIP 1977-2004.

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Since: 27.2.03
From: Seattle, Washington

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.22
Are ALL of these new Divas rejects from the Diva Search? I know Maria is, but I've never seen any of those others before? And I thought SmackDown! was the bimbo show. And that chick Orton hired is a COMPLETE butterface. Ugh.

I will say this about the "Winner controls RAW" stip. I was convinced that HHH was going to blow through all four guys to hang on to his belt,and we'd have to hear all the kvetching about it. And so far, the only person he's actually beat is Maven.




"It's the four pillars of the male heterosexual psyche. We like naked women, stockings, lesbians, and Sean Connery best as James Bond because that is what being a [man] is." -Jack Davenport, Coupling
I was kidding about that whole "Fire Jim Tressel" thing. Really. I was.
The Vile1
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Since: 4.9.02
From: California

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.41
So I'm a bit confused, was there a title change tonight or not? Pretty lame for them ending the show without clarifying any of that.




"Don't compare my arm...to your cheap arm!"
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Gugs
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Since: 9.7.02
From: Sleep (That's where I'm a viking)

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.08
    Originally posted by The Vile1
    So I'm a bit confused, was there a title change tonight or not? Pretty lame for them ending the show without clarifying any of that.


Basically, nobody knows. The last time something like this happened was when it appeared that Shawn Michaels had beaten Triple H for the title, but his shoulders were also down on the pin. Because of this, the match was ruled a draw and Triple H retained the title. So the historical precedent is in place to have the match declared a draw, meaning that Tripps retains the title.



"He is the most overrated piece of crap in the league. He bitched and whined after he got his ass beaten in New England last year, so the NFL changed the rules. Then he got his ass beaten in New England again. Every year he's the top MVP candidate. Every year he's supposed to be the best. Every year he's going to carry the Colts to the Super Bowl. And every single year he goes to New England and gets his ass beaten. And his brother's a whiny little bitch." -A friend of mine, on Peyton Manning

1,000 (bushflash.com)
Stilton
Frankfurter








Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

Since last post: 3128 days
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.26
    Originally posted by gugs
      Originally posted by The Vile1
      So I'm a bit confused, was there a title change tonight or not? Pretty lame for them ending the show without clarifying any of that.


    Basically, nobody knows. The last time something like this happened was when it appeared that Shawn Michaels had beaten Triple H for the title, but his shoulders were also down on the pin. Because of this, the match was ruled a draw and Triple H retained the title. So the historical precedent is in place to have the match declared a draw, meaning that Tripps retains the title.


Yup. A classic cliffhanger. No one will really know anything until next week.

Gugs is right about the draw rule, but then, when has the WWE ever refrained from making up new rules as they go along? For all we know the match could be ruled "inconclusive" or something, forcing GM Jericho to hold The Tournament of Tease... where all the guys they've been building up for the title (Edge, Benoit, Orton, Batista, Jericho, fuck, why not, even Maven) get their licks in before Trips takes home the gold. Best thing to do is put it out of your mind until about five to nine next Monday night.

[edited for dyslexia]

(edited by Stilton on 30.11.04 0147)


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Since: 12.2.03
From: New York, USA

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.74
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    I guess I'm the only one here who actually WANTED to see Lawler vs. Flair. I screamed like a school girl. I only wish they gave these two more time and skipped the diva crap


Hey, even as someone who wasn't around to watch these men in their primes, I was pretty excited myself. Of course I got distracted by a call from my mom for much of the match...and wish it'd happened during the diva segment. God did that crap run on forever. Is there anyone over 14 who actually doesn't tire of this? This stuff doesn't need 2 minutes let alone 30.

Mohammed Huswhatshisface seems better suit to SD. Its got all the other ethnic stereotype gimmicks anyway..well, Raw does have La Rez I suppose. I don't know, it still seems better fit for the show.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.03

    Hmm...about time the pulled double finishes. Last one was Taker and somebody...anybody recall?


It was Undertaker and Angle.....UT gave him the Last Ride, but Angle held onto UT on the way down and caught him in an armbar.....Undertaker tapped out at the same time that he moved forward and got Angle's shoulders down for three. Unless I'm gravely mistaken, this is the only time that Undertaker has tapped out or submitted in his entire career.

It was a pretty blah edition of RAW, since Vince's announcement totally killed the crowd at the start of the show. This new-GM-every-week angle would work a million times better with a face champion, since then you could get away with stuff like the heel GM making the face wrestle several times in one show, wrestle triple threats, cage matches, etc. It's a little Austin/McMahon, sure, but with the added twist that the evil GM only has the one week to try and get the belt before losing his job.

The finish, at least, was genuinely surprising. There was a moment of surprise when Orton clocked HHH with the chair, since it was like "Hey, he's not going to make it back into the ring...." and I actually got excited for a moment. I'm already dreading the inevitable four-way for the title next week, with HHH of course winning.






You know, first of all, we are doing this for her, okay? Because neither one of us wants to get divorced. And second-of-ly, I know you're the big marriage expert... Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot. Your wife is dead.

[laughs]
[beat]

...I'm sorry, that was 100% inappropriate, and I do apologize profusely...I'm...oh...


-- Tobias, "Arrested Development"
TopTenPro
Italian
No longer registered








Since: 21.3.04
From: Johnson City, TN

Since last post: 3517 days
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.38
Flair and Lawler, this match should of been shown in black and white.



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"The carpet don't match the drapes!"
"... Just kidding, there is no carpet."
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Some ppv dvds have post match interviews, which are kinda short but where the wrestlers often tell how they liked the match and how they feel. It's usually 50/50 when it comes to real or character.
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