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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #1072 12/9/2013 - The 2013 SLAMMY AWARDS (Page 2)
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.31
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by lotjx
      Turn the Bellas already, no one cares about them except Johnny O.


    They just turned the Bellas. They've been babyfaces for like a month. Also, Justin cares.


Turn them back. I keep forgetting Justin's crush on those two. I am concerned for both of you. Let me say that again, I am concerned and I'm foaming mouth lunatic about this stuff.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00




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Since: 5.11.08
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.68
So the whole YOU VOTE was a gimmick, right? There's no way AJ doesn't win Insult of the Year AND Diva of the Year if people are voting. Right?

The Shield rocked the hell out of those tuxedos. Can they never ever break up? Please?

Summer Rae's reactions as Bryan laid an asswhooping on Fandango (cheering NO NO NO as Bryan started his kicks) were (not-so-Hidden) Highlights.

Fantastic finishing segment. Shawn Michaels sure bagged himself the perfect spot there when the title belts were raised up. Did anyone notice Jack Swagger earning his paycheck by doing a TOP NOTCH job of holding Orton back almost single-handedly?



Dr Unlikely
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.32
I had and lost a huge breakdown of cubs’ breakdown here…so this will be a watered-down, rambling version of that. Oops. Huge thanks to cubs for doing this, as this has to be the moment most deserving/in need of a moment-by-moment breakdown since the legendary NXT 2 Season Finale.

Two additional notes that came early one, with a request for a tape review at the end:

-Punk is perfectly placed over HHH’s shoulder during Stephanie’s preamble ramble to crack up as Stephanie declares HHH the greatest of all the great champions

-As it becomes clear that the crowd is not going to play ball at all for the ASCENSION OF CHAMPIONS CEREMONY, Michaels calls Audible #1, stepping up next to HHH to play Goofy DX Shawn and comically ask the crowd to quiet down. Doesn’t take, so Mark Henry calls Audible #2 and triumphantly raises Daniel Bryan’s hand to the delight of the crowd, then does the “OK, now cut it out!” pantomime as Henry and Rey break down in hysterics. The camera-left side of the Assembled Champions is clearly the rambunctious half during this whole thing. I have no clue what Rey is doing throughout this entire segment, from the way he’s standing to his interactions with Henry and Bryan behind him.

    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    HHH tries a ponderous boring speech about the importance of the title match. Crowd completely turns on segment and starts unprompted Daniel Bryan chants. Triple H tries to fight them, can not win. Half the people in the ring crack up. Triple H fumes (and it's unclear if was Triple H the character or Triple H the guy who helped write this skit who's angry), then buries the fans for being ugly Daniel Bryan family members. Triple H continues, only to get WHAT-ed.
Obviously, this made me incredibly happy. We’ll never know how much of this was planned vs. how much fixed on the fly – obviously, they had to know Bryan would get some reaction, and despite some of the best in-ring guys of the last 30 years like HHH/HBK/Punk/Bryan/Cena there, there’s no way they didn’t discuss the transitions of who takes out who at the end, because of how tight those transitions were – but in my heart, I KNOW HHH never dreamed that the crowd would shit on him, this match, his GOLDEN CHAMPIONSHIP HOLDER, the ASCENSION OF CHAMPIONS and everything else to that extent. As much as I love to bash the guy whenever the opportunity presents itself, I can’t deny that HHH is exceedingly clever, but man oh man, he just stopped dead at one point when the crowd went all in on him and had to actually pause for a few moments to figure out what to do. And he was fuming when he ended up being the one to draw the WHAT? chants.

I love you forever, Entire State of Washington.

    Originally posted by thecubsfan

    - Orton and Cena are introduced. Orton has a good if obviously scripted speech about how he didn't have to try that hard because he was so good and he would've been good enough to beat everyone, including the older guys in their prime. Crowd turns on this and chants boring, which Orton tries to power thru.
I’ll give Orton credit for making his transition from script to actively fighting the crowd more natural than HHH (in that he didn’t actually come to a cold stop, though nothing Orton does comes off a as a natural human reaction, which is part of his appeal as a TV character). Watching Orton react to hostile crowds has been the secret joy of 2013 WWE TV. It takes him so long to actually engage that I can’t help but imagine the mental gymnastics going on: “I hate this crowd! But I’m always angry! And everybody backstage gets mad at me for being angry! So I’ll be cool, I’ll ride this out! They’re still yelling at me?! SCREW THIS CROWD! YAAAAAAAH!” and by this time, the crowd has been doing the wave for eight minutes.

    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    Cena, being Cena, takes advantage of the crowd reactions by improvising a bit with Daniel Bryan - he has Daniel introduce himself to the crowd as a guy who didn't have a hall of fame family member and had to work to get to the top. Cena says that, while Orton wasn't working hard and was always protected, not only did Cena make himself but he helped make others. He gave Dolph a shot "when no one wanted to give him a shot", he gave CM Punk a shot when he was threatening to leave the company, and he gave Daniel Bryan the one fair shot he's had at the WWE title - and Bryan beat Cena, so Cena is going to give him the first shot at the title. Cena's turned the crowd on his side.
Masterful work by Cena, maybe his finest moment? Nobody panders more than Cena, and I very much got annoyed by him using Bryan as a prop for the second time in this PPV build and he doubled down with that “You guys like Dolph Ziggler, right? Well I made that terrible feud with him a reality!” stuff. But Cena used his Champion’s Advantage of going last to read that crowd, right the ship, go off script as needed and still bring everything back around to tell his story and get to the handshake moment on cue. In many ways, Cena is the embodiment of everything wrong with the company and at least some of it is his fault. But I say put any other guy in the history of wrestling into that exact position and see if they could do what he did right there. I say nobody else does it and does it that naturally.

    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    all the old guys bail, all the active guys separate them. (Christian is one of the guys who bailed.)
Ha ha ha, awwww! I was wondering where Christian ended up (I thought for a second that was him holding Orton back in the corner in the weirdest way possible, but of course, it was Miz), but it makes sense that Christian would leave with Bret and Foley, what with his secretly dying and all. I was partly upset that Orton didn’t go through and call out everybody in the ring when it seemed like he might, since Christian was right behind him. The biggest obstacle I see in any and all WMXXX fantasy booking is what to do with Orton, so I say reignite Orton/Christian and sell it as Christian’s ONE MORE MATCH, ONE LAST TIME dying request.

    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    CM Punk ends up in the middle, moves towards Orton, and Orton smacks Punk in the face while trying to get free.
    - Punk gives the slow take reaction, then starts forearming Orton in the face.
    - HHH pulls Punk back by his head and throws him down. HHH turns back to Orton and starts screaming at him for starting this.
    - Punk, of course, can not let this be and gets up with an angry expression on his face. Stephanie yells a warning from across the ring, but HHH never hears it.
Terrific silent work by Punk right here, which is where the crowd buys into the whole ending of the show. I like how he treats the pieface from Orton (“See, I was just trying to be a good soldier and break up the fight, but nooooo!”) vs. the awesomely brutal shove down HHH gives him (“You? You die.”)

    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    Punk turns HHH around and forearms him in the face - and HBK superkicks Punk from out of nowhere! HBK is defending his friend again.
Michaels half-assing his heel turn annoys me, but this was proof that he’s still got the best timing of everybody. That flash Superkick was beautiful, and I love him, in his suit, standing over Punk with that “You forgot who I am, didn’t you?” look. In a weird way, I want a Punk/HBK showdown (even if it’s just dueling promos) more than anything else after all this. If ever there were two habitual line-steppers in the History of This Business, it’s Punk and Michaels, and I have faith that HBK would accept the challenge of going nuclear, unlike Nash, who weirdly wilted when faced with the same.

    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    HBK stands over Punk, forgetting who he screwed over last time he defended HHH. Bryan, in the foreground of the shot, gets ready and nails HBK with the jumping knee strike as he turns around. Crowd explodes.
It had to be at least partially accidental, but I can’t remember a camera shot that good on live TV in a long, time. That shot of gloating HBK framed with Bryan’s clenching and unclenching fist in the foreground as he psyched himself up to lay out his evil mentor was A+ work. Give that camera guy a Slammy.

    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    Stephanie is helped to her feet by Cena and Kane (who had been holding back Cena), and the last 30 seconds of the show are Orton recovering on the mat while the foursome of Kane, John Cena, Triple H and Stephanie stand together and glower at Orton.
Cena himself is actually the one who calls Kane over to help HHH attend to Stephanie, to add to how weird that was. Mixed emotions on all of this, since I’ve given up hope that the John Cena: Ultimate Corporate Champion angle that they’ve been building to will ever come to fruition, which underpins what they’re doing wrong. But taken on its own as a moment of TV, that has to go down as one of the five best Raw endings. And it was made all the better when you close with Five A+ Main Event Talents in the ring doing the Big Angle for the Most Important Match of All Time, and the crowd still chants for Bryan as the show closes.

Never give up, never surrender, rebellious WWE audiences. Keep doing it until they’re forced to change and let them pretend it was their plan all along.

So! Here’s my request for someone to review the tape: at some point – I’m pretty sure it was during Orton’s opening speech to Cena – I noticed HHH stepping back to huddle up with a few people close to him. Anybody willing to go back to see who he was talking to when this goes down? I’m curious to see if we can figure out how much of him changing things up on the fly goes down in that moment, if any at all.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.85
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    Cena himself is actually the one who calls Kane over to help HHH attend to Stephanie, to add to how weird that was. Mixed emotions on all of this, since I’ve given up hope that the John Cena: Ultimate Corporate Champion angle that they’ve been building to will ever come to fruition, which underpins what they’re doing wrong.


If -- and let's underscore IF -- they were to turn Cena (if if if), his claim of being the guy who made Punk, Ziggler, and Bryan can be the basis of an arrogant heel stance.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
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Since: 2.1.02
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.89
Has anyone brought up how Orton was mouthing "I'm sorry." a couple of times, right to The Even Stronger Authority? Also, why are they pissed at Orton? Byran shoved him into Steph. It's not like he intentionally launched hizzelf at her. Yeah, he started this whole thing, but why didn't Steph bail with Bret? You wanna start calling yourself Steph-O-Mac, you'd better step up and bump a little better.
Spiraling_Shape
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Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.03
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    Ha ha ha, awwww! I was wondering where Christian ended up (I thought for a second that was him holding Orton back in the corner in the weirdest way possible, but of course, it was Miz), but it makes sense that Christian would leave with Bret and Foley, what with his secretly dying and all. I was partly upset that Orton didn’t go through and call out everybody in the ring when it seemed like he might, since Christian was right behind him. The biggest obstacle I see in any and all WMXXX fantasy booking is what to do with Orton, so I say reignite Orton/Christian and sell it as Christian’s ONE MORE MATCH, ONE LAST TIME dying request.


Great analysis of all of that!

As for Christian, I just read this morning that he revealed he's still suffering from post-concussion symptoms. (And that he just had a baby!)

ADR also supposedly was concussed in that Sin Cara II match last night...
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.35
I think WWE thought putting Bryan out there earlier in the show and often for his awards would get the chanting out of the crowd's system and they wouldn't be so excited to see him the fourth time. That one didn't work.


    I have no clue what Rey is doing throughout this entire segment, from the way he’s standing to his interactions with Henry and Bryan behind him.


I forgot about this, but Rey brushes Bryan after the chant, trying to literally get the rub off him. They were having a grand ol' time.


    but it makes sense that Christian would leave with Bret and Foley, what with his secretly dying and all.


Rey gets a lot of undeserved internet hate for being hurt all the time, but Christian had an amazingly broken down last few years. I saw him standing near the announce desk and was amazed he's still must not be cleared. (They really should've have ADR leave too, knowing about his concussion now)



thecubsfan.com - luchablog
Dr Unlikely
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.32
Henry and Rey definitely had that "We're old and will be physically forced to quit soon" joie de vivre that none of the other Assembled Champions semeed comfortable displaying as things spiraled into chaos. Props to Dolph Ziggler for not going into business for himself and fargo strutting around the ring the whole time if my theory about him quitting wrestling forever is true.

I'll give them a pass for sending Del Rio out if only because none of the other active guys was able to look as good in a suit as ADR did.

I really want this Last Days of Christian thing to be a stealth angle going on in the background through Wrestlemania. Just shots of him looking at X-Rays and shaking his head in the background of a scene, or coughing into a handkerchief and then staring at what we have to assume is blood in it, or a brief vignette of Christian and Otunga meeting to plan out Christian's estate.

Before it's too late, I assume next week (or would it be the week after?) is the Christmas show. Based on the last few weeks, do we have any guesses for this year's Miracle on 34th Street Fight, which has been the WWE Free TV MOTY the last two years? Let's assume three previous participants (for health, card position and not existing) are off the table in the form of Del Rio, Cena and Otunga. Ziggler/Sandow could have been it, but that seems to be done. Kofi/Miz would be the worst case scenario. I want Cesaro to be in it vs. anyone, just so he can give a European Uppercut to a Christmas Tree.
Matt Tracker
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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.85
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    Before it's too late, I assume next week (or would it be the week after?) is the Christmas show. Based on the last few weeks, do we have any guesses for this year's Miracle on 34th Street Fight, which has been the WWE Free TV MOTY the last two years? Let's assume three previous participants (for health, card position and not existing) are off the table in the form of Del Rio, Cena and Otunga. Ziggler/Sandow could have been it, but that seems to be done. Kofi/Miz would be the worst case scenario. I want Cesaro to be in it vs. anyone, just so he can give a European Uppercut to a Christmas Tree.


If the SHIELD split, maybe a tag match with Punk/Reigns vs. Ambrose/Black?



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
JayJayDean
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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.19
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    I think WWE thought putting Bryan out there earlier in the show and often for his awards would get the chanting out of the crowd's system and they wouldn't be so excited to see him the fourth time. That one didn't work.


Perhaps if the TitanTron hadn't cut to the guys laughing (especially Bryan himself) it might have died down sooner. This wasn't like a couple weeks ago when it was Cena and Orton and the Bryan chant was going even though the Wyatts had carried him off later. He was RIGHT THERE.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

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Since: 5.11.08
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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.68
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely

    So! Here’s my request for someone to review the tape: at some point – I’m pretty sure it was during Orton’s opening speech to Cena – I noticed HHH stepping back to huddle up with a few people close to him. Anybody willing to go back to see who he was talking to when this goes down? I’m curious to see if we can figure out how much of him changing things up on the fly goes down in that moment, if any at all.


So here's the video (dailymotion.com). The only time Trips noticeably steps back is around the 5:27 mark, when he's helping the referee (the same guy whose earpiece CM Punk was playing with right at the beginning of the segment) put up the championship belts on the Golden Championship Holder. He then huddles with Stephanie for a brief sentence or two and then's he's pretty much fixed to his spot throughout Orton and Cena's speeches. Cena's speech begins at 8:09, but I didn't see Triple H move at all.

Also, I just noticed while watching that video - there's a guy in or near the front row with a large sign that says "OKADA > CENA." I applaud that guy for his knowledge of Japanese wrestling.

(edited by used2bcool on 10.12.13 1155)
BigDaddyLoco
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.83
What exactly do Trips and Steph expect out of Orton? Orton hasn't even been a loose cannon for them, which if he was it would have made this whole thing a lot more interesting.

I would rather they wearily back someone they can't really control over wearily backing a guy that pretty much does everything they seem to want from a face of the company.
JimBob Skeeter
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Since: 2.1.02
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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.89
My 15-1/2 year old stepdaughter happened to walk thru the room when PTP were on the screen. She STOPPED in her tracks, and proclaimed: "There's a Black John Cena?!?!?!?!?!"


I LOL'ed for a while.

(edited by JimBob Skeeter on 10.12.13 1215)
Mr Shh
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Since: 9.1.02
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.38
Kudos to Seattle - the perfect WrestleMania focus group.

Thanks to cubs and Dr U for the breakdowns of the final miuntes.

What made the end really special for me is the fact that they teased a Bryan-HBK confrontation earlier in the night and nothing happened. As far as I was concerned, we lost the chance to see anything the rest of the night. Then - the shot of Bryan waiting to launch himself at Michaels had me yelling.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro last week
    Hmm.

WWE isn't doing anything to *not* tease a HBK match. Please stop, unless you plan to deliver.

Say, has Kane done anything physical since becoming Director of Ops?



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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.60
    Originally posted by used2bcool
    The Shield rocked the hell out of those tuxedos. Can they never ever break up? Please?


If we're doing a fashion report, I give the Slammy for Best Dressed ("You CAN See Me?") to the PTP. Daren Young looked great, and Titus O'Neil proved that he is the Real Deal by being the only guy out there the whole night who was wearing a real self-tied bow tie.
JustinShapiro
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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.97
    Originally posted by CruelAngel777
    I've never dreaded and also looked forward to a group splitting like The Shield. The cracks continue to form between Roman and Dean.


The split teases really ramped up on the last two shows, but at the same time so have the Undertaker mentions. So there's a 3-on-1 match on Sunday with the obvious "I'm gonna take this pin, dang it" and "hold him for me and definitely don't let him move" spots. But Undertaker would have to come back for revenge before they do the full split, right? Or is Undertaker just going to show up to chokeslam them all once and then join the Authority as President Evil?

    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    Booker T comes out.


Oh my god. The sequel. I had no idea that the legendary Takeroonie post-show was also in Seattle. Imagine the crisis if Vince said "Fagaroonie" today, a month before the Network announcement.

    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by lotjx
      Turn the Bellas already, no one cares about them except Johnny O.


    They just turned the Bellas. They've been babyfaces for like a month. Also, Justin cares.


I mean, they are the stars of a hit reality TV show and just won the fan's choice for favorite ladies.

    Originally posted by used2bcool
    So the whole YOU VOTE was a gimmick, right? There's no way AJ doesn't win Insult of the Year AND Diva of the Year if people are voting. Right?


No clue. The voting breakdowns would be interesting (ok, not literally). I can sort of see AJ losing votes from true blue fans who wouldn't vote for a mean ol' heel. But I don't think the audience considers AJ a heel. Maybe the oddest results since a website malfunction voted Mason Ryan instead of Sin Cara into a match with Evan Bourne.

    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Nattie was also born into a WWE Hall of Fame family and is in WWE despite glaring deficiencies.


Well, Aksana and Rosa Mendes are on the roster. It's not exactly getting a full ride from Yale. I think Natalya is more Cody Rhodes than Randy Orton.

    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    Punk is perfectly placed over HHH’s shoulder during Stephanie’s preamble ramble to crack up as Stephanie declares HHH the greatest of all the great champions


Heck yeah. When that happened I thought it was going to be the main thing I took from the segment. When it was over I didn't even remember. Unmatched WWE detail work. Seems like Punk/HHH supplanted Punk/Orton as a WM direction a couple weeks ago. Maybe Stone Cold finally told them to stop asking and Hunter decided he'd better make sure his Mania match had heat this year.




    I was partly upset that Orton didn’t go through and call out everybody in the ring when it seemed like he might, since Christian was right behind him.


I was very much expecting "Christian, well, we all know what happened there." Real heat and more pertinent than Bret Hart. Everyone's been mad on behalf of Daniel Bryan, but Christian and Dolph Ziggler were the reigns they really robbed the fans on. Christian was Daniel Bryan in real life.

    Originally posted by Spiraling_Sharpe
    why didn't Steph bail with Bret?


I think Cubs noted this, but when Punk is stalking Triple H, Stephanie tries to shriek out a warning.


    ADR also supposedly was concussed in that Sin Cara II match last night...


Yeah, you can see him deliberately avoiding any sort of contact as he does his part in the pull-apart. Whereas Jack Swagger has found his bliss.

    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    I really want this Last Days of Christian thing to be a stealth angle going on in the background through Wrestlemania. Just shots of him looking at X-Rays and shaking his head in the background of a scene, or coughing into a handkerchief and then staring at what we have to assume is blood in it, or a brief vignette of Christian and Otunga meeting to plan out Christian's estate.


Christian looking at old photos and tossing them into the Brood pyre.

    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    What made the end really special for me is the fact that they teased a Bryan-HBK confrontation earlier in the night and nothing happened. As far as I was concerned, we lost the chance to see anything the rest of the night. Then - the shot of Bryan waiting to launch himself at Michaels had me yelling.

      Originally posted by JustinShapiro last week
      Hmm.

    WWE isn't doing anything to *not* tease a HBK match. Please stop, unless you plan to deliver.


I had the same thought process. They "worked" the Slammy exchange but then seemed to blow off any real feud going forward, so I started thinking about Bryan finishing the Orton chase. Then Michaels kicked Punk and Bryan stood in the foreground and I sat up in my chair. I think I have to officially stop postfacing all my Bryan vs. Shawn speculation with "but I'll believe it when I see it."

(edited by JustinShapiro on 10.12.13 1405)
JimBob Skeeter
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Since: 2.1.02
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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.89
Speaking of Taker, what's going to happen when he shows up next if Kane still has the suit on? Taker glares at him, and Kane shrugs, sez; "It's a gig."


Oh, and how the HELL did the JBL & Cole not get NAO dressed as D&D?
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.31
That CM Punk gif maybe my new avatar.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
steven87gill
Polska kielbasa








Since: 14.1.11

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.03
See, I thought that Cena promising Daniel Bryan a rematch was the perfect motivation for HHH to back neither man on Sunday & take matters into his own hands.

Cena Heel Turn? Nah, ain't happening at TLC. If it was going to happen (which it probably isn't) I'd more likely place a bet on WMXXX against Taker.

After losing the undisputed title to Bryan in the previous match, a desperate HHH comes out and pulls the ultimate sanction & aligns with Cena, ending the streak.

There's your pussy corporate heel. It gives them time between now and WM to build HHH up to be a *proper* asshole, allowing the turn to have more meaning, as at the moment HHH just doesn't feel like a real bad guy yet, to the point where Cena aligning with them would feel more like an authority face turn than anything else.

Cena could turn heel turn now, but he'd presumably have to drop the title to DB in only 3 months or so.





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