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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw #1067 11/04/13 (Page 3)
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SchippeWreck
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Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.85
So...

-Vince spends weeks leading up to SummerSlam telling the audience that Daniel Bryan is not a worthy contender.
-They telegraph a finish where the popular Bryan will be screwed out of the title.
-They act surprised when people didn't bother to buy the PPV.

I don't know why I'm still shocked by this, really.



"It's magic! We don't need to explain it!"
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 16 hours
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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.83
What I take from SummerSlam is ...

SummerSlam '11: 311K (180 domestic)
SummerSlam '12: 392K (296 domestic)
SummerSlam '13: 296K (185 domestic)

either Triple H flattened out Lesnar, or only Lesnar's first couple matches really mattered as major difference-makers. They were disappointed by Wrestlemania "only" being the 4th biggest show ever, and Extreme Rules this year was nothing special. 2011 and 2013 will probably end up being close to the same number after late buys come in, so they'd seem to be more like the baseline of what WWE does now without a special outside attraction. Comparatively, Punk and Rock at the Rumble was the biggest non-Mania PPV in five years. It'll put Lesnar to the test again when he does WM 30 without Rock on the card.
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.45
I thought SummerSlam was a well built PPV. The Daniel Bryan "Weak link" storyline was built all summer long and he was positioned properly as the underdog against the guy who beat The Rock. It's a real shame it didn't draw well, because they really had a lot of great stuff going on this summer.

That said, they did make Daniel Bryan very one-note and he could have used a little more "punk rock" in his persona instead of being "all heart" he could have been the hippie with the beard that was challenging the establishment, which was mentioned occasionally by commentators but not really made the focal point of his character.
DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 83 days
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#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    What I take from SummerSlam is ...

    SummerSlam '11: 311K (180 domestic)
    SummerSlam '12: 392K (296 domestic)
    SummerSlam '13: 296K (185 domestic)

    either Triple H flattened out Lesnar, or only Lesnar's first couple matches really mattered as major difference-makers. They were disappointed by Wrestlemania "only" being the 4th biggest show ever, and Extreme Rules this year was nothing special. 2011 and 2013 will probably end up being close to the same number after late buys come in, so they'd seem to be more like the baseline of what WWE does now without a special outside attraction. Comparatively, Punk and Rock at the Rumble was the biggest non-Mania PPV in five years. It'll put Lesnar to the test again when he does WM 30 without Rock on the card.


That all may be true, but (and this is an interpretation of course) going by Vince saying "fans didn't buy the attraction, as most of you know these events are attraction driven", I'm going to guess that he didn't mean the guy who headlined the 2 biggest UFC PPV or the guy that got a gospel choir to sing him down at WMXXVII.

Plus, you can also reason that no matter who is at the top, be it Bryan, Punk, Show, Orton or whomever, they will always do that baseline number, so why push the guys that 'don't look like Supermen'?



Kevin Kelly: "Mr. Austin, would you like to comment on Wade Keller's Take that endorsing the XFL hurts your anti-authority character?"

Steve Austin: "Oh shit, he actually said that? I thought the boys in the back were ribbing me!"

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Tribal Prophet
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Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.14
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    I thought SummerSlam was a well built PPV. The Daniel Bryan "Weak link" storyline was built all summer long and he was positioned properly as the underdog against the guy who beat The Rock. It's a real shame it didn't draw well, because they really had a lot of great stuff going on this summer.



You mean telling fans for months that the #1 contender is the pathetic member of whatever team he's on (including 6 mans he was involved with) without definitively proving he's not, and then giving him the title match with absolutely no build or storyline (and then leaving most fans with the opinion that even if he won, Orton would just use his briefcase to take the title from him anyways) was a strong way to build the second biggest program of the year?
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.11
I highly doubt Survivor Series will be a better number. They have only themselves to blame for this disaster or the internet fanbase that decided to pass on this or stream it for free.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.45
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
      Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
      I thought SummerSlam was a well built PPV. The Daniel Bryan "Weak link" storyline was built all summer long and he was positioned properly as the underdog against the guy who beat The Rock. It's a real shame it didn't draw well, because they really had a lot of great stuff going on this summer.



    You mean telling fans for months that the #1 contender is the pathetic member of whatever team he's on (including 6 mans he was involved with) without definitively proving he's not, and then giving him the title match with absolutely no build or storyline (and then leaving most fans with the opinion that even if he won, Orton would just use his briefcase to take the title from him anyways) was a strong way to build the second biggest program of the year?


This is Internet revisionist history and is the popular line I'm seeing on Bleacher Report and all sorts of message boards, this kind of one-sided idea that Bryan was not presented as a credible challenger to Cena's belt.

That's nonsense. Sorry, but my memory is better than that.

Cena came out on RAW and picked Bryan because he wanted to face someone who could beat him. As the build developed, Cena started talking trash, but that's only natural. Thing is, people forget that Bryan defended himself even in their face-to-face interview by labeling Cena a "brand" and basically saying straight up that he could kick his ass. And he did!

EDIT: Going back to their face-too-face promo (http://www.youtube.com/​watch?​v=FJgfxsYaQzA), Cena said nothing that Flair hadn't said in any of his money-drawing feuds. Bryan didn't have Cena's respect on the level of the Rocks/HHHs/etc., because respect is earned. In that same promo, Cena listed all the guys he'd beaten. This was all building up the mountain Bryan had to climb so that it would actually mean something when he pinned Cena, which he did.



The narrative Vince presented about Bryan being unmarketable was the same narrative he presented about Mick Foley. Didn't hurt his drawing ability as he had several highly rated RAW segments during the WWF's hottest period. It's a valid criticism from the evil owner of the company and wasn't really a reflection of his ability to beat Cena. In fact, that's the very thing they were afraid of in the narrative.

Furthermore, Bryan was built up incredibly well over the summer, but people have forgotten about it. It's not WWE's fault either because they established on RAW repeatedly that Bryan was the best wrestler in the company ALL SUMMER LONG. (http://www.411mania.com/​​wrestling/​​video_​​reviews/​​289412/​​Views-​​from-​​the-​​Hawke%5C​​%5C​​s-​​Nest:​​-​​Daniel-​​Bryan-​​vs.-​​Randy-​​Orton:​​-​​The-​​Saga.htm)

It started with Orton (and Kane?) calling Bryan the "weak link" and Bryan going on to kick Orton's ass and make him tap after a great series of matches on TV. This is what started it all! Bryan owned Orton's ass and the only way Orton could beat him was by HHH turning on him and a MITB cash-in after Bryan beat the top guy in the company.

My main criticism of the way Bryan's push was handled was that it was too one-note. Not that he wasn't presented as a credible challenger. Bryan was presented as "all heart" and an "underdog.' Well, go back and look at Foley. All of that was true about Foley, BUT what made Foley marketable was that he was ONE CRAZY MO-FO on top of all the heart he had. Bryan's underdog persona was presented as generic.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 7.11.13 1709)
CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.48
I stole this from the Place to Be Podcast's Facebook group:




ekedolphin
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.22
Hmm. I'll bet that weirded out even Goldust, which is terrifying to contemplate.



"Has it never occured to anyone that maybe Kane attacked him, because no one likes The Miz?"
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dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.88
Lol yeah I chuckled when that happened and said to my friends "Think this is Cena's response to Orton's jump from a few years ago?"

I was amused by Punk and Bryan both going "omg, can't believe I am not the only one being attacked!"

the 3man tag match was pretty damn good.
The big show stuff dragged on and on.

Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 11 hours
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#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.60
    Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
    Plus, you can also reason that no matter who is at the top, be it Bryan, Punk, Show, Orton or whomever, they will always do that baseline number, so why push the guys that 'don't look like Supermen'?


You might have something here. I was interested in getting Summerslam, but I passed because of how ludicrously expensive WWE PPVs have become. The last PPV I bought was WrestleMania XX, which was $50. Even that was a hard pill for me to swallow, and I really liked the show. Spending more than that (even allowing for the fact that a decade has passed and there's inflation to consider) means that I'm really unlikely to buy a future PPV, so if it's just the same 300K or so people shelling out no matter what, Vince might as well just push the guys he likes - which we know suits him just fine.
PowerPB13
Morcilla








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

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#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
I'm at a point in life where my disposable income is more limited than it once was. That's on top of the price hikes for PPVs. I haven't watched many wrestling PPVs at all in the past several years; saw MITB '11 and this year's Elimination Chamber at sports bars and that's been about it in recent memory. Only watched 'Slam due to a friend getting it.

Which, going by WWE's logic, just means that the Daniel Bryan fans are the types that don't have the money to spend on wrestling PPVs and aren't worth appeasing.



-PB
Then: http://www.nwwwo.com/
Now: http://www.facebook.com/patrickab7
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

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#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.33
    Originally posted by PowerPB13
    I'm at a point in life where my disposable income is more limited than it once was. That's on top of the price hikes for PPVs. I haven't watched many wrestling PPVs at all in the past several years; saw MITB '11 and this year's Elimination Chamber at sports bars and that's been about it in recent memory. Only watched 'Slam due to a friend getting it.

    Which, going by WWE's logic, just means that the Daniel Bryan fans are the types that don't have the money to spend on wrestling PPVs and aren't worth appeasing.


Yes. That is why if you want to send a message, don't get Survivor Series, no matter how much your brats want it. Re-reading the SummerSlam thread warmed my cold dead heart last night.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

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#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.42
Seeing reports that "management" feels as if people want to see "larger than life" wrestlers, and that's why buy-rates were down. That's disappointing, but not unexpected based off of the numbers.

In a variation of Ockam's Razor; the simplest answer may be the best. They've built Bryan into the new Foley, or possibly into an early-mid career Jericho. Capable of stepping into a Main Event when needed, usually carries an upper-mid card match.

Since they've "made him" and put him over strongly, they could easily pull the trigger at any time and run with him at the top again.



"You can't put a price on integrity"
DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 83 days
Last activity: 83 days
#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96
    Originally posted by PowerPB13
    I'm at a point in life where my disposable income is more limited than it once was. That's on top of the price hikes for PPVs. I haven't watched many wrestling PPVs at all in the past several years; saw MITB '11 and this year's Elimination Chamber at sports bars and that's been about it in recent memory. Only watched 'Slam due to a friend getting it.

    Which, going by WWE's logic, just means that the Daniel Bryan fans are the types that don't have the money to spend on wrestling PPVs and aren't worth appeasing.


That's the thing... WWE isn't going to 'cater' to the types that don't buy PPVs or get them in other way. They are going to cater to the fans that do buy it, which are mostly parents who have kids that want to see their hero (in this case, John Cena). The way I watched SS was to wait 1 week and then found it on Youtube (and I only watched Cena/Bryan and Lesnar/Punk.. . and seeing that there were about 250K views, seems I wasn't alone).

But the WWE also knows fans like 'us' will always be around and never leave. We're passionate enough to post on messageboards like these and when things don't go the way we want, we'll either rationalize it or just find something that we like and get behind it. Daniel Bryan is just another in a long line of guys that the 'internets' will get behind (before, there was Punk, Benoit, Guerrero, Tazz, Jericho, etc...) and in a few years, there will be someone else. It's like Neo with The Matrix.



Kevin Kelly: "Mr. Austin, would you like to comment on Wade Keller's Take that endorsing the XFL hurts your anti-authority character?"

Steve Austin: "Oh shit, he actually said that? I thought the boys in the back were ribbing me!"

Kelly: "No, he really said that. Did they tell you the part about you sitting in the stands, looking all skeptical?"

Austin: "AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah... oh man that was too much."
Kevintripod
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Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

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#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.98
    Originally posted by El Nastio
    They've built Bryan into the new Foley, or possibly into an early-mid career Jericho. Capable of stepping into a Main Event when needed, usually carries an upper-mid card match.



So he's a solid B-plus.





"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

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#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.42
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
      Originally posted by El Nastio
      They've built Bryan into the new Foley, or possibly into an early-mid career Jericho. Capable of stepping into a Main Event when needed, usually carries an upper-mid card match.



    So he's a solid B-plus.


A - minus.



"You can't put a price on integrity"
Moss
Kishke








Since: 23.9.10
From: Calgary, AB

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#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.08
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    This is Internet revisionist history and is the popular line I'm seeing on Bleacher Report and all sorts of message boards, this kind of one-sided idea that Bryan was not presented as a credible challenger to Cena's belt.

    That's nonsense. Sorry, but my memory is better than that.



Exactly. The only people who called D-Bry the weak link were Orton (who IIRC seemed to stop after Bryan beat him), Vince and I think Steph (heels) and the one saying it loudest...Daniel Bryan. The whole storyline was that it wasn't true, and to break up Team Hell No so D-Bry could go to win the WWE championship.

Even heelish announcer JBL insisted he was NOT the weak link and repeatedly talked about how great he was, just that he can't be the face of the company/is bad for business.

Cena's trash talk was just that and was chosen because Bryan is the opposite of "pathetic".

The "payoff" of the angle was horrid, but the rest was great and Bryan beat Orton repeatedly after beating pretty much everyone else including the #1 guy clean.



BORK LASER PLS
SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

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#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.85
    Originally posted by KJames199
      Originally posted by Kevintripod
      I was wondering out loud to my wife if it was a clip-on tie since it hung down so short, but then I remembered Kane is a really tall guy.
    The tie thing was the first thing I thought too. It's gotta be hard for someone that tall. I'm 6'1" and I prefer to have tall-guy ties to ensure they're long enough when I'm wearing them. I don't know where one even buys a tie long enough for someone who's 6'6" or whatever Kane is supposed to be. Same place Big Show gets his suits, I guess.

    Or maybe in the Sears mens wear department where Undertaker bought his Kane outfit.

Kane took the hint and picked up a longer tie in Brussels:





"It's magic! We don't need to explain it!"
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 16 hours
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#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.83
Punk vs. Orton has been the rumored WWE title match at Wrestlemania for a while, and today's Figure-Four newsletter still has it listed (FWIW, along with "despite Shawn's denials, people in the company strongly believe Michaels vs. Bryan is happening"). I guess between now and then they could have an epiphany to replace Punk with stars as God intended like Roman Reigns or Big E, but I don't really see the Wyatt thing as a severe downward reckoning for our dear faves.


    Originally posted by dMp
    I was amused by Punk and Bryan both going "omg, can't believe I am not the only one being attacked!"


Hahaha. It was such brand new information to each of them, which they then knowingly revealed to everyone who had long since known.
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That's the one from after the 1997 Royal Rumble. The "thanks for letting me be your hero" promo was in Canada during the Hart Foundation angle, I'm pretty sure.
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