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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw #1066 10/28/13 (Page 3)
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.11
    Originally posted by GodEatGod
      Originally posted by lotjx

      About the cheering. For the 100th time, I was at Mania this year, I have never heard anyone get booed like that ever. And again, I have been to NHL Playoff games with hated rivals on the other side of the rink. He is a draw, no doubt, but he is the greatest draws of all time like he once was. He hasn't been for awhile. Dr. Unlikely is dead on and if WWE wanted someone else to get those cheers, Cena gets in those small market areas, they could. Actually, they are and its Punk and Bryan.


    But why does having Punk and Bryan necessarily mean they have to get rid of Cena? Yeah, Cena gets the shit booed out of him, especially in big markets with smarky audiences (and at smark-heavy shows like Wrestlemania). But why should that make WWE change anything? From what I've seen on this board, you hate Cena more than virtually anyone else and yet you paid good money to go to Wrestlemania! So did the other people there booing him out of the building. They didn't just discover they hated Cena when they got there. They hated him well beforehand, and then shelled out plenty of money for good seats to the biggest show of the year anyway..

    They still got your money. Of course they want to put out a good enjoyable product, but they measure how much you enjoy the product by how much you spend on it. Hardcore internet fans tend to watch even when they hate it, so there's really no risk in offending us. I don't know how many times and for how many years I've seen people on boards declare it's the last straw and they're not watching anymore. Some of them stick to it, but it's clearly not enough to make a big difference to WWE's bottom line. And, yes, that bottom line is much smaller and tighter than it was during the Attitude boom.

    But I don't actually believe the whole "wrestling is cyclical" thing. I don't think another boom is coming. With the internet and massive 500 channel cable dilution, WWE is a niche product and is going to stay a niche product. But that doesn't mean they need to cater to the hardcore fans. Instead, it makes those few less dedicated fans you get even more valuable, because they're the profit on top of the hardcore baseline. And the marginal customers, the parents whose kids are into it or the guy who checks it out every now and then for nostalgia, still really like Cena. Because they don't watch every week or every show every week, he's not nearly as overexposed to them as he is to us.

    As John O pointed out, Cena's still relatively young (yes, Vince tried to replace Hogan at around Cena's age, but Hogan is STILL in the wrestling business and only stopped wrestling at all because his body wouldn't let him anymore). Cena's a much better company man who gets along much better with Vince than Hogan ever did. He's going to be on top of the company for, I'd estimate, at least another eight or nine years.


I went to Wrestelmania, because its Fucking Wrestlemania. I'd go to the Super Bowl if my team wasn't in it either. Its a bucket list item. It could have been Santino vs. Hornswoggle as the main event and I'd still pay the almost $200 a ticket, because the rest of the card was stacked and it is a really good show minus the Chris Christie 2016 campaign message instead of the National Anthem. Oudom, go to Mania, the crowd is worth it and the card should be stacked. Trust me, you will have fun.

I don't hate Cena. I think John is actually a class act. His Make a Wish record is phenomenal and from all reports, he seems like a good dude. I hate John Cena Superman. Its tired and boring as hell. He is now the small market guy. The people in cities with the Big 4 PPVs are spending top dollar for those shows where Raw and Smackdown, are fairly cheap tickets. So, if your fan base is niche and your hardcore fans are booing the shit out of a guy then maybe you should re-think all of this when its fairly clear you have two other guys who can are more over.

John O is 1000% right. Cena is here to stay minus a major revenue bust or a scandal where he is caught with drugs. Which would be our version of Lance Armstrong expect Vince would use it on TV. Other than that, Cena is here to stay as the face of the WWE even though it might be costing WWE money and viewers.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
oudom
Kolbasz








Since: 12.1.12

Since last post: 18 days
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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.62
    Originally posted by lotjx


    I went to Wrestelmania, because its Fucking Wrestlemania. I'd go to the Super Bowl if my team wasn't in it either. Its a bucket list item. It could have been Santino vs. Hornswoggle as the main event and I'd still pay the almost $200 a ticket, because the rest of the card was stacked and it is a really good show minus the Chris Christie 2016 campaign message instead of the National Anthem. Oudom, go to Mania, the crowd is worth it and the card should be stacked. Trust me, you will have fun.



Wrestlemania as a bucket list item is already done. I went to Wrestlemania at Miami and it was so frickin awesome, I wanted to go again next year to New Jersey but decided not to because 1) it might be cold (I live in Hawaii) and 2) I already saw the Main Event (once in a lifetime!) and most likely Cena is going over this time around. I don't regret that decision. It's almost guaranteed it won't be Thrice in a Lifetime in 2014, but I wouldn't want to see Big Show vs Randy Orton as the Main Event or something stale like that. And this time, I want to stay for Raw because cool shit always happens on the Raw right after Wrestlemania.

(edited by oudom on 30.10.13 1439)
PowerPB13
Potato korv








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
I haven't been to a WWE show in a few years. In that time, I've passed on several shows that would have been no-brainers in the past(Rumble, Raw 1000, a few in-between PPVs). I haven't bought a WWE PPV in a long time either. I'm pretty close to just letting the shows record and fast-forwarding through them at a later time. It's frustrating because the in-ring content is as good as it's ever been(thus why I still watch).



-PB
Then: http://www.nwwwo.com/
Now: http://www.facebook.com/patrickab7
Moss
Summer sausage








Since: 23.9.10
From: Calgary, AB

Since last post: 69 days
Last activity: 53 days
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.07
    Originally posted by SchippeWreck
    I get that sometimes they need to create fresh characters out of the NXT people when they're called up, but WWE produces an NXT television program and shows it to people voluntarily. Completely ignoring its existence is kinda silly. (JBL is the NXT Commissioner, for chrissakes!)


They've mentioned JBL is the commish after mentioning Xavier Woods and JBL not knowing who that was but that's pretty much the only time they mention NXT. They mentioned NXT when the Shield debuted.

NXT is great, they should be promoting it a bit on their on-TV shows. Why not mention Summer has been training at NXT & calls herself the First Lady? You can even leave out she was NXT before Mrs Fandango, make it implied she went after Fandango took her from the dance floor.

Why didn't they have Big E come out with the NXT championship instead of pretending Team Hell No had no way to know what he was like in the ring?

I agree it's not something they want to over do, but I don't know anyone who's watched NXT and didn't like it.

(edited by Moss on 30.10.13 1838)


BORK LASER PLS
Rudoublesedoublel
Potato korv








Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 41 days
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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
If this has been addressed already, I apologize, but...

Randy Orton cashes in on a prone Daniel Bryan and it's all good.

However, John Cena must first be given time to show that he's able to defend himself.

If it were merely a case of "heel action" with Randall Keith, I'd be fine with it - but there is sufficient precedent behind the idea of cashing in on prone champs that the lack of continuity annoys me even more.

Thing is, I don't dislike Cena as much as everyone else does (clarify - I respect him as a human for the good things he does for kids and I grudgingly admit that he has good to excellent matches with folks, he holds his own well).



Eight ain't enough.
Greymarch
Boerewors








Since: 24.2.03
From: Toronto, Canada

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.28
Actually I think they added that as a stipulation to briefcase cash ins a while back. The Orton/Bryan situation is a bit hinky due to HHHs direct involvement.
Chumpstain
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 2 days
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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.24
Yeah, normally the referee would check to make sure the injured wrestler is ready to go before starting the match, as they've established in the last few years. However, Triple H being the referee threw a wrench into that, as he clearly had no interest in making things remotely fair for Bryan.

While the smart move for Damien Sandow might have been to get a referee in his pocket to make the cash-in match against Cena start more promptly, after what happened with Scott Armstrong last month, you can't blame him for being a bit leery of trying such a thing!
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4 days
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#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.83
Uh, this one got away from me. But baseball is so forever-taking.

Da ting about John Cena is a lot of the very best stuff he's done has been in the last 2 years. The MITB Punk match, the Rock angles before WM27 and 28 and at least the first Rock match, the Lesnar match, and the Daniel Bryan match are all near the top of the John Cena legacy. Cena's the only guy who could've had era-spanning dream matches with Rock and Lesnar, and the only guy who Punk and Bryan beating for the title could've made for the emotion and impact that it did.

But. That sort of legacy-enriching victory lap stuff comes at the end of the line.
- Hulk Hogan's "whoa, it's finally happening" run with Ric Flair came in his last six months as the guy in WWF. A year later, Vince was ready for him to play the Babe Ruth/Bruno Sammartino living legend role after a torch pass to Bret Hart.
- Bret Hart turned heel to work fresh feuds with younger babyfaces Michaels and Austin, and that was after he had already signed a 20 year contract that was intended to wind him down into the Ruth/Sammartino spot and eventually an agent job.
- The Rock's dream match with Hogan was the very last thing he did on his final run as a weekly wrestler. The only thing that interested him after that was pitching special attraction matches with Goldberg, Sting, Savage, decidedly not Shawn Michaels, and, eventually, Cena.
- Steve Austin's career ended due to injuries just before he could embark on his special attraction year with planned mega-matches against Rock: The Final Battle, Goldberg, and Brock Lesnar.

What do all four guys have in common?
1) they were all moved or were being moved into the living legend status and special attraction spot to complement a new franchise guy.
2) they all turned heel when they believed they'd reached the end of the line as top face and needed to freshen it up.
3) they all eventually quit the company.

With 3), There will come a day when John Cena isn't a full-time wrestler in WWE, but he's never going to leave for TNA like Hogan and Bret did. Injuries may do him in like Bret and Austin, but sports medicine & science have come a long way since then. Cena's neck, elbows, and knees are going to continue to be bad, but this latest injury shows that that's just going to slow him down ever so temporarily while he regenerates like the T-1000. I envision time lapse photography of Cena's career from full-timer to limited house shows to Raw GM to Raw color commentator to doing Freddie Blassie motivational speeches from a wheelchair every week to surprise! majority shareholder (Cena plays a long game).

1) and 2) are the more interesting, uh, evitabilities? In 2012, Cena took a break from the title picture to give Punk his big run and worked as a special attraction in the Cenaweight division, but he was still the main event and centerpiece of the TV. Then this year after he got the title back, it was almost scary how little there seemed to be left for him to do as champion, especially after they decided to take a break from Cena/Punk. They turned Ryback at a time when he was all but the only possible option, pulled Mark Henry out of their back pocket one last time and lucked into him hitting an unexpected home run on his own in his last at-bat, and that was it for heels. The only place left to turn was finally running with Daniel Bryan's popularity as phase 1 in a major angle designed in part to get, DUN DUN DUN!, Randy Orton back into an important position again, the Viper of Vipers returns to his throne with no absence of malice. Granted, Cena/Orton hasn't happened in 4 years, but, you know.

If Cena hadn't needed surgery, we'd have gotten Cena/Bryan/Orton matches for two months. Instead, because of the injury return, he's being kept away from that for now, but his only possible opponents are Alberto Del Rio, a rehash from 2 years ago who's less over now than the first time they feuded, and Damien Sandow, An Actual Jobber who he's already pinned clean.

It really seems like we're at a point where the only thing left for John Cena to do in his entire life is the Streak match with the Undertaker. In a pinch, they could arrange Cena vs. Hogan or Cena vs. Sting for a big show, though not for much longer. But what is there for him to do to bridge his big Mania matches? Here's who it took to get him from Batista at WM26, to three years of Rock, to now: Sheamus, Barrett, Punk 1, Miz, Truth, Punk 2, Del Rio, Kane, Big Show, Punk 3, Ziggler, Ryback, Henry, Bryan, Del Rio 2. Who's left? Randy Orton: Months in a Lifetime is on queue, the Shield isn't undefeated anymore, and ... Bray Wyatt?

In '05-06, Cena started the recovery for WWE from the post-boom collapse, but it was wasn't just him being there that turned things around. His emergence created fresh matches with old guard stars Triple H and Shawn Michaels and new rivalries with brand new main eventers Edge and Randy Orton. '05-09 was John Cena's WWE for sure, but they had a viable ensemble on top that went seven deep with Cena, Batista, Triple H, Undertaker, Michaels, Edge, and Orton. Enough depth to run two separate brands and enough to keep going without missing a beat whenever one of the seven got hurt.

There's nothing wrong with Cena being around. He's good! Cena and Orton are valuable and sometimes excellent performers, but they have to be a part of a new ensemble of guys on top. Of the rest of that '05-09 list, Batista, Michaels, and Edge are retired, and HHH and Taker only do 1 or 2 matches a year. Since then, WWE has only restocked the cupboard with CM Punk, a major blessing considering he made his own break right when he was about to leave. They handpicked Del Rio and Sheamus as the new replacements; neither got over as much as they wanted but both will probably keep getting opportunities. Daniel Bryan is at that level if they let him stay there. There were times in December and April when Dolph Ziggler seemed like he was right on the verge of getting there, and then, yeah.

Vince McMahon is 68. Cena is 36. It's the TV angle at the moment, but Vince really is going to choose one last guy to be the actual face of WWE before he turns things over to "Paul" and Stephanie. For a second, he thought it was going to be Ryback, bless him. If we're laying odds, it'll probably be Roman Reigns. Either way, if Cena isn't going to turn heel (and not in a My Bleacher Report Editorial, "John Cena should turn because wahhh!" way, but because he would immediately have fresh matches with everyone and he could remain the Nu SuperCena centerpiece for years), then he needs to be transitioned into the "Babe Ruth" spot Vince envisioned for Hogan and Bret. They need to build a new ensemble of main eventers around him, Orton, and Punk, not just have Cena kill time with guys in between matches with Rock and Lesnar. WWE brought Cena and Orton to the top by having them work evenly with Hunter, Undertaker, and Shawn. Now they're the Hunter, Undertaker, and Shawn. They don't need to be replaced, they need to bring other guys up to their level with them.

IN OTHER WORDS YOU COULD SAY THAT "HIS TIME," WHILE NOT "UP," ISN'T QUITE "NOW" ANYMORE
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.19
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Congrats to the Shield, btw, for making it nearly one year before they started teasing their breakup. Hence, it would seem, the Wyatt being moved up into their obstacle gang spot.


I can't believe nobody has followed up on this. Ambrose basically crapped on Rollins and Reigns for losing the tag titles and pimped himself as the best member of the Shield, and then after the siz-man was over (which Reigns RULED with his headstand sell of the DDT AND the double spear, which I marked out for because Reigns does the BEST spear) Ambrose held his belt up a little too proudly and that got a sneer out of Reigns. I loved ALL that.

Also, I never want the Shield to break up. They are the closest group we have going to the Horsemen. I hope this tease of dissension ends with Rollins and Reigns winning the tag titles back soon, although it doesn't look that way with the Real Americans entering the tag title picture. Please stay together Shield...if only for the kids.

This whole show was worth watching for me thanks to IJ's Cenagasm when she realized Justin Roberts was NOT, in fact, introducing Randy Orton at the beginning of the show. And she really thought Sandow might win, so Damien has that going for himself.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.85
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    If Cena hadn't needed surgery, we'd have gotten Cena/Bryan/Orton matches for two months. Instead, because of the injury return, he's being kept away from that for now, but his only possible opponents are Alberto Del Rio, a rehash from 2 years ago who's less over now than the first time they feuded, and Damien Sandow, An Actual Jobber who he's already pinned clean.


It's my hope that Cena brings someone up the main event the same way he tapped Bryan to challenge him to SummerSlam. Antonio seems the best candidate for that, and that angle would allow Cena to fight the We The People stable.

Otherwise we're left with Kane or Ryback. Do they turn Ziggler? Do they try to legitimize Wade Barrett again?



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.54
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    It's my hope that Cena brings someone up the main event the same way he tapped Bryan to challenge him to SummerSlam.

Is there really any incentive for Cena to do this, given how little his efforts have meant just two months later?

    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Otherwise we're left with Kane or Ryback.

Ryback's pretty much finished at this point, if those backstage heat rumors are true. As for Kane? He's this company's reliable crutch. If you need an imposing main event figure, go to Mt. Perpetually Over and bring down Kane.

    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Do they turn Ziggler?

Because I just KNOW the writers are going to get bored with Langston sooner than later, I think Ziggler might be better served tagging up with his old buddy. In fact, reunite them with AJ and let them have a babyface run. Why not?


    Do they try to legitimize Wade Barrett again?

This is inevitable. They're going to come up with some other half-hearted gimmick, try and shove him down our throats, and then get bored with him again and he'll just float around aimlessly until someone decides to take him off TV to start the cycle all over again. I'd really rather not take this ride for the hundredth time. And I actually LIKE Wade Barrett!

(edited by It's False on 31.10.13 1017)



"Playing guitars. It's hard to sing while playing...guitars."
DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 5 days
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#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.59
Read it and weep, fella


    Originally posted by It's False
      Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Otherwise we're left with Kane or Ryback.

    Ryback's pretty much finished at this point, if those backstage heat rumors are true.
Waitwaitwait, what? I'm out of the dirtsheet loop. What'd Ryback do now?



CLICK OR DIE
Prolly time for a new sig :(
Chumpstain
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.24
    Originally posted by It's False
    This is inevitable. They're going to come up with some other half-hearted gimmick, try and shove him down our throats, and then get bored with him again and he'll just float around aimlessly until someone decides to take him off TV to start the cycle all over again. I'd really rather not take this ride for the hundredth time. And I actually LIKE Wade Barrett!


They've already got his next gimmick. Bad News Barrett. It just has yet to debut on TV, as far as I know. It's a JBL and Cole Show exclusive, along with Hornswoggle's mysterious stalker and Renee Young's Hadoken.
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.35
    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
      Originally posted by It's False
        Originally posted by Matt Tracker
        Otherwise we're left with Kane or Ryback.

      Ryback's pretty much finished at this point, if those backstage heat rumors are true.
    Waitwaitwait, what? I'm out of the dirtsheet loop. What'd Ryback do now?


I haven't seen any mention of an incident, but just a general sense they have accepted Ryback is not that good, not that over anymore and unlikely to get a lot better.



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