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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw #1066 10/28/13 (Page 2)
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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.48
It's almost as if the Powers that Creative only have the collective mindpower to work on one push at a time and right now, that happens to be the one given The Rhodeses.



Hokienautic
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Since: 2.1.02
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.84
So why do so many people seem to think that the Wyatt Family attack on Daniel Bryan is shunting him down to the midcard instead of bringing the Wyatt Family into the main event angle? Did you miss the very awkwardly obvious line from Michael Cole about "Hey, they said 'The devil made me do it' after beating down both Daniel Bryan and CM Punk"?

What are the odds that "the devil" is going to be "The Authority"?

Actually, until they took out Punk as well, I thought it was for a break from TV for Bryan for some reason (injury, doing the wedding now, whatever). He sold that like a champ. But with both Daniel Bryan and CM Punk involved, I don't think WWE is trying to push them both down the hole.

(edited by Hokienautic on 29.10.13 1445)
Tyler Durden
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.63
Good lord, the "Daniel Bryan-experiment" is NOT over! They just have to kill time right now. Wait for the Rumble.

As far as Cena goes, I think they are now officially trying to push him as "Superman" John Cena. They even have started to refer to him as "Superman". I wonder, if his next outfit will be in classic blue and red.



#WatchROH
GRL
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Since: 13.7.02
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.11
    Originally posted by Tyler Durden
    Good lord, the "Daniel Bryan-experiment" is NOT over! They just have to kill time right now. Wait for the Rumble.


I gotta admit, as much as I agree that Bryan is not in R.I.P. mode (hey now Sandow) - this whole 'slow burn' argument is harder for me to be okay with. In fact, it's obnoxious in the sense that, yes, slow burns back in the day were awesome. Wrestlemania V, the Mega-Powers explode?!? Fantastic. But they also had 4 big events a year and nowhere near 6-7 hours of new television every week. They have to be better at striking when somebody gets hot and carrying these things through... or at least hinting at a larger, longer-term strategy in play that can spread to the entire roster.
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.60
    Originally posted by GRL
      Originally posted by Tyler Durden
      Good lord, the "Daniel Bryan-experiment" is NOT over! They just have to kill time right now. Wait for the Rumble.


    I gotta admit, as much as I agree that Bryan is not in R.I.P. mode (hey now Sandow) - this whole 'slow burn' argument is harder for me to be okay with. In fact, it's obnoxious in the sense that, yes, slow burns back in the day were awesome. Wrestlemania V, the Mega-Powers explode?!? Fantastic. But they also had 4 big events a year and nowhere near 6-7 hours of new television every week. They have to be better at striking when somebody gets hot and carrying these things through... or at least hinting at a larger, longer-term strategy in play that can spread to the entire roster.


You're absolutely right, and that's why back at Summerslam, I was against the idea of dragging this thing out until WrestleMania. And I'm still against it - I think it's a stupid idea. But I am convinced that it is what they're trying to do.
KJames199
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Since: 10.12.01
From: #yqr

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.68
    Originally posted by Hokienautic
    So why do so many people seem to think that the Wyatt Family attack on Daniel Bryan is shunting him down to the midcard instead of bringing the Wyatt Family into the main event angle?
Years of history.

WWE is much better at dragging guys down than pushing them up. They love their stop-start pushes, their inconsistent storytelling, their 50/50 booking that does nothing for anyone.

I like Daniel Bryan matches as much as the next guy and it's not like he's getting Zack Ryder treatment or anything, but the booking...
    Originally posted by Justin
    ...almost seems like a parody of a worst case scenario people would predict to make themselves miserable.


Not that everyone can be (or should be) THE guy, but Bryan, Edge, RVD, Jericho, Eddie, Rey, Benoit, Punk, and Angle all had potential to be and none of them quite got there. Punk and Bryan still have a shot, but if they ever get there, it will be in spite of WWE booking, not because of it.
wannaberockstar
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Since: 7.3.02
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.03
    Originally posted by Hokienautic
    So why do so many people seem to think that the Wyatt Family attack on Daniel Bryan is shunting him down to the midcard instead of bringing the Wyatt Family into the main event angle? Did you miss the very awkwardly obvious line from Michael Cole about "Hey, they said 'The devil made me do it' after beating down both Daniel Bryan and CM Punk"?


Because this is the Internet and hating for the sake of hating is what it's for.

I just love how everyone criticises WWE for not putting the focus on a wide range of people but then, when they do, they get all "oooh, I guess so-and-so is done with".

And, in case you didn't hear, the noise when John Cena won was cheering. You might not like it but you can't honestly deny that he's popular and people want to see him. You honestly hate John Cena so much that you can't possibly see that, quite possibly, the reason for putting the title on Cena was for Damien to have someone to face that's a good guy, right? Nah, far too easy to just hate him.

(edited by wannaberockstar on 29.10.13 1830)
Dr Unlikely
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.28
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Coming after the PPV, a Raw where John Cena retains against the MITB cash-in, Daniel Bryan is swapped out for Big Show as #1 contender and moved into a program with the Wyatt Family, and Kane turns heel again just for the hell of it almost seems like a parody of a worst case scenario people would predict to make themselves miserable.

At this point, I feel pretty confident that around 2011, someone finally introduced HHH first to the internet, and then to the art of internet trolling, and he's become obsessed with it and applying it to booking and working the fans since then. I'll go ahead and assume that someone was poor Joey Styles, who probably had to explain what he does to HHH during a staff retreat or something.

    Originally posted by KJames199
    Not that everyone can be (or should be) THE guy, but Bryan, Edge, RVD, Jericho, Eddie, Rey, Benoit, Punk, and Angle all had potential to be and none of them quite got there. Punk and Bryan still have a shot, but if they ever get there, it will be in spite of WWE booking, not because of it.
It seems pretty clear by now that the issue is that they don't want to find a new huge star/top guy. They may claim that they want to do it. They may, in fact, believe that they want to do it, but there is too much evidence to the contrary. They pull back every time they get close out of fear or complacency or whatever.

Cena himself isn't at fault for it, but he sure doesn't help help with some of the passive-aggressive shit he does during in-ring interviews before he goes away, and his inability to find a hobby besides lifting weights and smirking at cameras while he goes away.

Vince is the guy I blame for the fear and complacency to pull the trigger on even genuinely trying to push someone as a full-fledged New #1/Actual HHH or Cena Equal. And HHH - as amazing as he actually seems to be as a guy with an eye for talent, building resources and human relations - simply doesn't have it in his DNA to understand how to put other people over. It's probably not totally his fault, considering his presumed mentors are guys like Nash and Michaels who have equally great minds for the business and similar reluctance to ever actually use those canny, entertaining brains for the betterment of anyone else (I'm firmly in the camp that Michaels getting the Yes Lock on him last night is the only payback Bryan is getting from him for the Superkick).

So I mean, I guess the point is, things are never going to actually change, for better or worse, on any dynamic as long as Cena and HHH are around in their current roles, and they're never going anywhere because HHH is next-in-charge and John Cena is an immortal superman who can not be killed and will love us all in his infinite grace and warmth and shining light forever and ever.

Anyway, I don't even care about the Bryan stuff for now so much as I'm offended by how lazy and dumb the Kane segment was. What the hell was that, and why would you simultaneously give the impression that Bray Wyatt isn't important enough for Kane to want revenge on while putting Wyatt into a program with Punk and Bryan, who even theoretically need a third person?

(That said, all is forgiven if it turns out that Kane's Mask And Wig can possess anyone who Stephanie forces to wear them, giving them the sinister power of Kane. Especially if she makes Ryder put them on and Ryder is possessed into becoming the New Kane, possibly called Dark Ryder.)
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.11
    Originally posted by wannaberockstar
      Originally posted by Hokienautic
      So why do so many people seem to think that the Wyatt Family attack on Daniel Bryan is shunting him down to the midcard instead of bringing the Wyatt Family into the main event angle? Did you miss the very awkwardly obvious line from Michael Cole about "Hey, they said 'The devil made me do it' after beating down both Daniel Bryan and CM Punk"?


    Because this is the Internet and hating for the sake of hating is what it's for.

    I just love how everyone criticises WWE for not putting the focus on a wide range of people but then, when they do, they get all "oooh, I guess so-and-so is done with".

    And, in case you didn't hear, the noise when John Cena won was cheering. You might not like it but you can't honestly deny that he's popular and people want to see him. You honestly hate John Cena so much that you can't possibly see that, quite possibly, the reason for putting the title on Cena was for Damien to have someone to face that's a good guy, right? Nah, far too easy to just hate him.

    (edited by wannaberockstar on 29.10.13 1830)


About the cheering. For the 100th time, I was at Mania this year, I have never heard anyone get booed like that ever. And again, I have been to NHL Playoff games with hated rivals on the other side of the rink. He is a draw, no doubt, but he is the greatest draws of all time like he once was. He hasn't been for awhile. Dr. Unlikely is dead on and if WWE wanted someone else to get those cheers, Cena gets in those small market areas, they could. Actually, they are and its Punk and Bryan.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.83
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    I don't even care about the Bryan stuff for now so much as I'm offended by how lazy and dumb the Kane segment was. What the hell was that, and why would you simultaneously give the impression that Bray Wyatt isn't important enough for Kane to want revenge on while putting Wyatt into a program with Punk and Bryan, who even theoretically need a third person?


Yeah exactly. Let's even say that you need Kane to be a heel now, because that is a good and useful idea, and Kane hadn't found a new calling as a tenured character babyface after about 8 years of irrelevance. How could you not have Kane return to save Daniel Bryan from the Wyatts, team with him against htem, then turn on him because he's brainwashed/it's best for business/someone set his blackberry to May 19th/he wants to apologize to Stephanie for tombstoning Tori. Why would you just waste that whole step.

Meltzer says that the current plan for the Punk & Bryan vs. Wyatts feud is a Survivor Series elimination match. So how much u wanna figure the Wyatts' 4th is Kane (favorite demon of the devil who made them do it -- Stephanie McMahon is the devil? not the first I've heard of this)? And with the Rhodes Warriors set up with the Real Americans, that just leaves your regular bros like Miz, Kofi, or Ziggler if he's lucky to be on the Straight Yes Society team. So why not just have Kane be with them first and ... dang.



    Originally posted by TheGreatWhiteBob
    What this feud has taught us:

    If you expect WWE to carry feuds to their logical conclusion, you're a fool.

    If you expect the bulk of WWE PPVs to be anything other than placeholder events where little is progressed and even less is settled, you're a fool.

    If you expect WWE to listen to their audience and get behind the most popular wrestlers in any meaningful way, you're a fool.

    If you expect feuds involving HHH to end with HHH on the losing side, you're a fool.


Well, here's my counterargument to that.
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.42
There's two issues at play here, one good one bad.

The good; we're all certainly conditioned that the Road to Wrestlemania is a critically important time. Stars are made, angles created. We anticipate the build up.

The bad; no other PPV has this kind of build up to be a big deal, and it's possible the WWE knows this which is why the trigger doesn't get pulled until Mania.



"You can't put a price on integrity"
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.11
I still doubt Wrestlemania XXX is going to have Bryan main eventing when Taker, Brock, Cena, HHH, Orton, HBK and possibly Hogan and Austin are going to be in the mix in some way. Rock is out due to shooting schedule, but I can see him do the HOF. I am thinking they are going to let Bryan and Punk tear the house down while Cena and Orton main event for the undisputed title with Hogan or Austin as the guest referee or enforcer. Taker and Brock is rumored which could easily be the main event as well.

Fall is the appropriate season for the WWE, because it feels like every year their storylines fall apart and take a break til the Rumble comes around. I love Mania, but trying to do a storyline from SummerSlam to Mania doesn't work with this much TV time. I know people will bring up Cena/Rock, but Rock was gone for a good chunk of that and screwing over Punk as well as wasting a Rumble win on Cena was pretty poor.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.32
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    I guess the point is, things are never going to actually change, for better or worse, on any dynamic as long as Cena and HHH are around in their current roles, and they're never going anywhere because HHH is next-in-charge and John Cena is an immortal superman who can not be killed and will love us all in his infinite grace and warmth and shining light forever and ever.


This is the God to honest truth and gospel, especially about John Cena. He will never leave and he will never, ever change. This is the difference between John Cena and every other The Face of WWE that came before. Hulk Hogan? Ego, politics, perceived success outside wrestling, the McMahon steroid trial, all contributed to him finally vacating the throne. Stone Cold Steve Austin? Too many injuries to sustain a decade long run at the top, and also too much Attitude for the changing face of corporate, PG sports entertainment. The Rock? Hollywood, and a destiny as the biggest and most successful movie star cross over from wrestling the world has ever seen.

John Cena? He is going nowhere. He is exactly where he wants to be doing the only thing he ever wants to do and is capable of doing, and in doing so, has redesigned the architecture of the whole company to revolve around him. Even when felled by a grotesque injury, he returns in a third of the projected time to recuperate. John Cena has no future in Hollywood; neither seems to want the other. John Cena can't be injured. Freakish physique and strength aside, no accusations of drug use has ever been levied his way. His ego, and he does have one, seems to be in check, or at least perfectly aligned with the McMahon-enforced ideal that No One Is Bigger The WWE. John Cena is the most perfect Face of the WWE that has ever or will ever exist, and he is still young, relatively healthy, may or may not marry a Bella who does and will keep him happy sexually in his enormous CeMansion. All of this adds up to the conclusions that not only is John Cena never changing, not only is WWE never changing, but these last ten years of John Cena on top are only a prelude of what's to come.
KJames199
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Since: 10.12.01
From: #yqr

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.68
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Freakish physique and strength aside, no accusations of drug use has ever been levied his way.
I'd suggest millions of accusations have been levied; it's just that nobody has any proof. Lots of evidence (his physique in general, his apparent superhuman ability to return from injury), but no proof.
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    he is still young
36, according to Wikipedia. Definitely still young (I'm 37 so I have to try to make myself believe this) but he's only one year younger than Hulk Hogan was at Wrestlemania VI when Vince tried to bring in Ultimate Warrior as Hogan's replacement. Historically, Vince hasn't wanted to build around "older" guys, instead relegating them to special attraction-type roles. But you and/or Dr. Unlikely, PhD are right, that doesn't look to be in the cards for Cena any time soon. And I'm sure part of that is the self-fulfilling prophecy (Vince doesn't think Punk or Bryan can be the The Guy, so they're not booked like The Guy, so they aren't perceived as The Guy, justifying Vince's decision to not book them like The Guy).

Did I have a point with any of this?

I loved the superkick ending of the PPV for the lotjx-saturated comedy of it all - the blindest squirrel, the biggest nut - but it still inspired me to finally take Raw off the DVR recordings list.

But the new video game is neat! I should go write about that instead.
PowerPB13
Potato korv








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
Cena's overexposed. Hulk Hogan's schtick lasted as long as it did because he WASN'T on TV every week, wrestling every week, kicking out of finishers every week, etc.



-PB
Then: http://www.nwwwo.com/
Now: http://www.facebook.com/patrickab7
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 84 days
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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.32
Cena JUST returned from 2 months away where he wasn't on TV every week.

But now he's on twice a week as the Champion of Smackdown!
SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.85
I thought the Summer Rae match was great, but I'm biased. NXT is the only WWE product I watch on an even remotely consistent basis. It would have been nice of the commentators to maybe acknowledge her NXT wrestling background instead of acting all surprised about her ability. ("Did Fandango show her those moves?")

I get that sometimes they need to create fresh characters out of the NXT people when they're called up, but WWE produces an NXT television program and shows it to people voluntarily. Completely ignoring its existence is kinda silly. (JBL is the NXT Commissioner, for chrissakes!)

Poor Summer had to deal with at least two people botching the finish, too. Khali was too far away (looked like she was supposed to slap him then turn into Natalya), and Natalya missed her cue, forcing Summer to turn around twice.

(edited by SchippeWreck on 30.10.13 1153)


"It's magic! We don't need to explain it!"
GodEatGod
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Since: 28.2.02

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.14
    Originally posted by lotjx

    About the cheering. For the 100th time, I was at Mania this year, I have never heard anyone get booed like that ever. And again, I have been to NHL Playoff games with hated rivals on the other side of the rink. He is a draw, no doubt, but he is the greatest draws of all time like he once was. He hasn't been for awhile. Dr. Unlikely is dead on and if WWE wanted someone else to get those cheers, Cena gets in those small market areas, they could. Actually, they are and its Punk and Bryan.


But why does having Punk and Bryan necessarily mean they have to get rid of Cena? Yeah, Cena gets the shit booed out of him, especially in big markets with smarky audiences (and at smark-heavy shows like Wrestlemania). But why should that make WWE change anything? From what I've seen on this board, you hate Cena more than virtually anyone else and yet you paid good money to go to Wrestlemania! So did the other people there booing him out of the building. They didn't just discover they hated Cena when they got there. They hated him well beforehand, and then shelled out plenty of money for good seats to the biggest show of the year anyway..

They still got your money. Of course they want to put out a good enjoyable product, but they measure how much you enjoy the product by how much you spend on it. Hardcore internet fans tend to watch even when they hate it, so there's really no risk in offending us. I don't know how many times and for how many years I've seen people on boards declare it's the last straw and they're not watching anymore. Some of them stick to it, but it's clearly not enough to make a big difference to WWE's bottom line. And, yes, that bottom line is much smaller and tighter than it was during the Attitude boom.

But I don't actually believe the whole "wrestling is cyclical" thing. I don't think another boom is coming. With the internet and massive 500 channel cable dilution, WWE is a niche product and is going to stay a niche product. But that doesn't mean they need to cater to the hardcore fans. Instead, it makes those few less dedicated fans you get even more valuable, because they're the profit on top of the hardcore baseline. And the marginal customers, the parents whose kids are into it or the guy who checks it out every now and then for nostalgia, still really like Cena. Because they don't watch every week or every show every week, he's not nearly as overexposed to them as he is to us.

As John O pointed out, Cena's still relatively young (yes, Vince tried to replace Hogan at around Cena's age, but Hogan is STILL in the wrestling business and only stopped wrestling at all because his body wouldn't let him anymore). Cena's a much better company man who gets along much better with Vince than Hogan ever did. He's going to be on top of the company for, I'd estimate, at least another eight or nine years.



"Never piss off a hawk with a blowgun" - Conan O'Brien
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 84 days
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.32
    Originally posted by SchippeWreck
    Natalya missed her cue, forcing Summer to turn around twice.


Nattie constantly misses cues. She fucks matches up on a regular basis. She's terrible.
oudom
Summer sausage








Since: 12.1.12

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.62
Man, WWE makes it harder and harder to be a fan. I am planning on going to Wrestlemania in NOLA but HITC PPV and Raw is making me regret that decision. Tickets are going on sale November 16. I think I need to quit watching Raw and start watching after Royal Rumble.
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