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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw #1058 9/2/13
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It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 22 hours
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.37
In tonight's edition of The McMahon-Helmsley Era Part 2: Electric Boogaloo:

-Triple H opens with a 20-minute promo. Again.
-Daniel Bryan gets beaten up. Again.
-Big Show gets made into a giant blubbering baby. Again! And no, this wasn't fun when they did it last year and it's even dumber now. Hell, Hunter even pointed out that Show still has an iron clad contract, so aside from not competing, HE CAN'T GET FIRED! Do these people not understand what "iron clad" means? Do they need a lesson from Eric Bischoff on what "iron clad" means?
-Stephanie McMahon tells Big Show that he's going to die! I am not kidding! She did the whole Freddie Blassie deal on him and everything! She's a class act, she is!
-Big Show beats up Daniel Bryan after Stephanie McMahon makes him cry. This after he spends the entire main event treating Bryan like he's made of glass. Man, they sure are convincing me that Daniel Bryan is a top face that should be taken seriously, guys!
-Dolph Ziggler gets beaten up. Again.
-Triple H is in about half the show's segments, just like the Bad Old Days!
-Brad Maddox says hi, even though Triple H and Stephanie McMahon's ongoing presence across most of the show renders his role completely superfluous.
-Cody Rhodes has one of his best matches in a losing effort against Randy Orton, getting him over more than he ever has at any point during his face run. Naturally, Hunter fires him and we don't get to see him on TV for a while, so everyone can forget all about him. Good one, guys. At least he left a hell of a promo on the way out.
-AJ's career-defining promo from last week goes nowhere, as she gets laid out by the Total Divas roster. Also, Stephanie McMahon gets involved (because of course she does) and makes a four-way for the PPV.
-The entire roster gets emasculated by being made to watch and twiddle their thumbs from the top of the stage. Again.

The first time this happened, it was fine. They were establishing a heel presence. Makes sense. The second time was also fine. Building tension and all that. But this is SIX STRAIGHT SHOWS that have ended not only with Bryan getting laid out, but not even having so much as an upper hand (NO, I don't count the Escalade thing!) in this feud. And then factor in that this is supposed to drag all the way out until Wrestlemania (or at the very least Survivor Series) and also add in that Bryan has no chance of winning at the PPV. So what am I watching here? Triple H and Stephanie take up half the shows again? Again, it's not 1999! This wasn't fun the first time!

I watched tonight's episode with friends and they're entirely convinced that Bryan's being made into such an inept top face that it can only mean he's a placeholder for John Cena to return and Rise Above Hate yet again. And I couldn't for the life of me come up with any counter-argument to that.

Look, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the faces will finally rise to the occasion next week (when Edge makes a visit, no less), but I can't be bothered to find out. Not when Monday Night Football is back.

Until the PPV!

(edited by It's False on 2.9.13 2031)

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SKLOKAZOID
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Since: 20.3.02
From: California

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.45
I liked RAW overall. It's consistent with what they've been doing lately.

Glad to see Cody put in another position of importance and nailing it yet again. I heard this was how he's being written off TV while he takes time off, so I think all they're doing here is having him go out with a bang so he has some unresolved issue when he returns.

The Big Show thing I'm cool with, too, because he's been well placed in the feud. Yeah, Big Show has done this literally three other times in his career (nWo, Union, Johnny Ace) and probably more I'm not thinking of, but in terms of main eventers with pull, with Sheanus out it's Henry or Show for this role in the story, and Show is due for some sort of semi-important main event role in 2013. Henry would have been better, though.

What pissed me off was that for as many continuity points as they get from me for bringing up the Iron Clad Contract, they seem to be glossing over that it's an IRON CLAD CONTRACT. As in, he can't get fired. Even the "can't miss a match" thing was weaksauce, but I bought it until he ACTUALLY DID THE MATCH and they still held it against him. Wha? He lived up to his terms! In wrestling court, the McMahons wouldn't have a case.


Now, there's no way Bryan/Orton makes it all the way to WrestleMania 30. I have no idea how this all plays out. Maybe CM Punk steps up and takes on the McMahons/HHH once he's done with Heyman. I'm sure Cena will factor in, too. And Bryan seems almost too important to forget after SummerSlam and beating John Cena cleanly. HHH vs Punk would be cool, as long as Punk won. HHH vs Bryan I'd also love, but Orton vs Bryan seems like just Phase 1 of this. Or Phase 2 if Bryan/Cena was Phase 1.

DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 57 days
Last activity: 30 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96
Don't worry. Vince will come back and straighten everything out. He's the real hero.

At this point, why even have a World Heavyweight title when the champ and the contender are just out there, watching along with all the others?

Next week will be fun with a Canadian crowd. We ALWAYS stay on script. Over/Under on BizarroLand references: 38



Kevin Kelly: "Mr. Austin, would you like to comment on Wade Keller's Take that endorsing the XFL hurts your anti-authority character?"

Steve Austin: "Oh shit, he actually said that? I thought the boys in the back were ribbing me!"

Kelly: "No, he really said that. Did they tell you the part about you sitting in the stands, looking all skeptical?"

Austin: "AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah... oh man that was too much."
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 4 hours
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.83
Yeah, that was just uncomfortable rather than entertaining in ANY way with Big Show. And I think they're reeeeeeally reaching on the fine points of an "ironclad contract" here. Sure, he might not be able to decline a match (though didn't he previously?) but to force him to knock out Daniel Bryan after a match is over? Idiotic. I thought they were going to come up with some "out" clause as an explanation, but nope -- they went full-on with "he has an iron clad contract! He can't be fired! But we're going to threaten him with firing him!"

One thing that's hit me over the past few weeks ... when they're ready to break up Prime Time Players, that "millions of dollars" dance is perfect for it. Right in prime clothesline position.

I would assume Rhodes asked for some time off for his wedding/honeymoon and this is how they wrote him out? Will be interesting to see how long before he pops back up.

Intense promo from CM Punk tonight. I'd say amazing, but he stopped amazing me a while ago. Now I expect it.

So when The Revolution starts, we'll have Bryan, Ziggler, The Miz, Big Show, and Cody Rhodes? Anyone have any suspicions on who else?
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 22 hours
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.37
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    Now, there's no way Bryan/Orton makes it all the way to WrestleMania 30. I have no idea how this all plays out. Maybe CM Punk steps up and takes on the McMahons/HHH once he's done with Heyman.


I had Punk as being the next to feud with the McMahon-Helmsley Faction, since all signs point to NOC being the major blowoff for his Heyman feud (at least until Brock comes back), but after tonight, I'm entirely convinced that Big Show ends up being the next challenger.
    Originally posted by Hokienautic
    One thing that's hit me over the past few weeks ... when they're ready to break up Prime Time Players, that "millions of dollars" dance is perfect for it. Right in prime clothesline position.


Ok, I do need to mention that I absolutely love what they're doing with the Prime Time Players (Losers, no more) with their face turn. That dance is over HUGE and they're playing the babyface roles perfectly! They've become a lot of fun to watch. It's just a little curious that...well...there's a huge elephant in that room that this company just doesn't want to address.

    Originally posted by Hokienautic
    So when The Revolution starts, we'll have Bryan, Ziggler, The Miz, Big Show, and Cody Rhodes? Anyone have any suspicions on who else?

Boy, they've forgotten all about poor Mark Henry already, haven't they?

I'm not sure about the Revolution, but you can easily slide Ryback into the side of the Regime.

On further thought, though, as much as I may not like Stephanie McMahon interjecting herself in AJ's angle, that does seem like a great way to plant some seeds for a Bryan/AJ reunion, Savage/Liz-style.

(edited by It's False on 2.9.13 2100)

JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 23 hours
Last activity: 48 min.
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.83
So surely Stephanie meant she and Big Show have been friends for 12 years, right.

If you think Daniel Bryan is being buried, I think you're in too deep and punching at ghosts.

The angle is so over that it single-handedly salvaged Cody's dead-in-the-harbor babyface turn. Cody was fantastic. It was like his tribute to the late dead Ted DiBiase II, the face turn against the overbearing Legacy leader they never got around to.

    Originally posted by It's False
    AJ's career-defining promo from last week goes nowhere, as she gets laid out by the Total Divas roster.


How is getting attacked by the very people you insulted going nowhere? Isn't it going directly from one place to the next?


    It's just a little curious that...well...there's a huge elephant in that room that this company just doesn't want to address.


I think Darren Young being just a normal wrestler doing his thing because his sexuality is irrelevant is the perfect way to handle it, much better than Darren Young being some gay wrestling hero.


    Boy, they've forgotten all about poor Mark Henry already, haven't they?


Mark Henry hurt his hamstring running away from John Orquiola on Saturday night and is out. So Big Show & Mark Henry vs. Rollins & Reigns is off for now.

    Originally posted by Hokienautic
    I would assume Rhodes asked for some time off for his wedding/honeymoon and this is how they wrote him out? Will be interesting to see how long before he pops back up.


I figure he will be hired back as part of the demands and righted wrongs when everybody finally takes a stand and gets some leverage, but that'll have to be a little more creative than when they'd just have Linda McMahon come out and randomly reverse things.

    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    Now, there's no way Bryan/Orton makes it all the way to WrestleMania 30. I have no idea how this all plays out.


Bryan gets screwed at Night of Champions, then a rematch at Battleground or some kind of team-up with the united faces (though that'd be logical for a Survivor Series). Then I think Bryan will get Orton in Hell in a Cell, the first ever HIAC at the HIAC PPV where the feud will actually warrant HIAC. And he will overcome everything and win the title there.

    Originally posted by It's False
    On further thought, though, as much as I may not like Stephanie McMahon interjecting herself in AJ's angle, that does seem like a great way to plant some seeds for a Bryan/AJ reunion, Savage/Liz-style.


That would be amazing.
LostInUbe
Linguica








Since: 19.11.02
From: Ube, Japan

Since last post: 8 hours
Last activity: 54 min.
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.54
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro

      Originally posted by It's False
      On further thought, though, as much as I may not like Stephanie McMahon interjecting herself in AJ's angle, that does seem like a great way to plant some seeds for a Bryan/AJ reunion, Savage/Liz-style.


    That would be amazing.


The episodes of Total Divas (if it's still on at that time) would be interesting viewing.

Dammit, I still think Shawn Michaels should be involved in all of this somehow.

Is Daniel over enough that if someone in the proposed Revolution turns on him and goes to the darkside it would get a stale character over? OK OK, I'm talking about the Miz.



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Texas Kelly
Lap cheong








Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 2 days
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
Ladies and gentlemen, the following public service message is brought to you by your friends from D-Generation X, who would like to remind each and every one of you that if you're not down with that, we've got two words for you...

Well, with Cody taking time off, him going over Damien Sandow twice has gone from making little sense to absolutely no sense whatsoever. We could have a strong-looking MITB who's a serious threat to either ADR or RVD (plus a "best for business" cover for HHH to justify Cody's "firing"); instead Sandow looks like a total jobber-chump for nothing and the only one who comes out of the mess looking good is (no surprise) HHH. But hey, what do I know?

Clock's ticking, E. You've got until Survivor Series to get the belt onto Bryan or you'll have blown it yet again because the fans won't care in the same way. Just a reminder.



e-mail me at texas (dot) kelly (at) gmailread a bunch of incoherent nonsense
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While the switch from Cena to RVD should alleviate some complaints, the inevitability of the belt's return to Cena (note where Summerslam is this year) and the poor initial showing by the new ECW are enough to keep the indicator where it is for now. The pieces are in place, though, especially on RAW, for improvements to be made to the IWC's psyche in the near future.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 4 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.85
I'm with It's False on this one. This is starting to feel like the Facgime/nWo booking where the bad guys are made "cool" because they hold all the cards, win all the time, and make all the faces sad/weak/ineffectual. Uphill battles are fine. But you gotta win some battles here and there.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 1 day
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.97
I also agree that it's starting to be a bit much and that the faces need some kind of win, which I think I actually said last week, but whatever - I can give them a couple more weeks when everything is this hot and people are actually investing in the television product. But serously, I *need* to see D-Bry knock somebody out here.

Show's "iron-clad" contract was weak (seriously, how hard would it have been to tell us that it's set to expire at the end of the year?), but I don't think they ever expected to have to explain that out. It felt like they just did everything on the fly last night, and at least they did address it and now it's done. Where it goes from here, I don't know.

On the other hand, that was a total starmaking moment for Cody last night. It's a royal shame that he's taking time off, because that's the sort of thing you want to capitalize on. The only way that could have made him look better is if he'd won the match and they'd fired him anyways.
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 25 days
Last activity: 3 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.88
The fact that they 'fired' Cody might mean he does a run-in sooner than later when they do one of those "the roster is not allowed to interfere" type of things. And then say it over and over.

I'm guessing we're gonna get HHH vs Show at some point, the way they are after him (while Orton deals with Bryan)

Truth be told, Orton vs Bryan doesn't need much extra build.
People will want him to kick Randy's face in.
The rest of the roster requires build (then again, they use that build to push Big Show, someone who technically doesn't need it, while Ziggler and such DO need it)

lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
Lance Storm feels that Bryan is no longer believable and has jumped the shark. So, take that for what it is worth. Steph's promo was a mess and this is one of their head writers. I understand that all wrestling storylines and feuds come back in some form. Yet, I was really hoping to go about my wrestling life time without dealing the McMahon-Helmsley era. I know for a lot people this was considered a great time, it wasn't. The wrestling was great most of the time, but the segments, booking decisions and rather incoherent storylines were dreadful. This was the era where garbage was thrown into the ring to end Wrestlemania. Trying to go back to era makes no sense to me unless of course you were on top during that time which HHH and Steph were.

The person who is going to save this is Cena. Its not going to be Vince, its going to be the real A++++ face of the company. Texas Kelly is dead on if they don't put the belt on Bryan soon then whatever momentum they think they have will be gone. I think people really underestimate the power of the constant 20 minute HHH promos. The WWE fans have been trained to see him as a legit bad ass and someone who is right on the mic. Bryan is only now being seen as a bad ass, but he needs more bad ass scenes. Destroying cars and having Big Show treat you like a toy isn't one of them.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.16
    Originally posted by It's False

    Boy, they've forgotten all about poor Mark Henry already, haven't they?


Mark Henry injured during live event. (wwe.com) I was there.



"Cody, I mustache you a question." - The Miz
PowerPB13
Potato korv








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

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Last activity: 15 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
I saw a few Jeremy Wyatt signs on Raw. I like Jeremy Wyatt. Really good wrestler.







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Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.43
Bryan needs to lay out the Shield backstage w/ a chair or pipe or whatever (even if it's just an establishing shot of them all knocked out w/ a pan up to Bryan), then do a short promo into the camera addressed to HHH about how he's tired of doing things his (HHH's) way, and it's time to take matters into his own hands. How many times does he have to get beat up by them before he decides to be proactive about taking them out first?



Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.28
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    So surely Stephanie meant she and Big Show have been friends for 12 years, right.
I was expecting a lot more discussion on this point already. I think she did "mean" 12 years old, since she prefaced the whole thing by claiming that the person she was bringing out was a friend and advisor since she started in the company.

So there's only two ways to understand that whole thing.

Either:

-The WWE has a Marvel comics sliding time scale, and everything that has ever happened in WWE history has happened since 1999 (the year Stephanie and Big Show first debuted).

Or

-Big Show and Andre are now the same character for storyline purposes. Everything that Andre did was now actually done by Big Show, and that nine-year layoff between The Princess Bride and Jingle All The Way backs up Stephanie's point about how hard it is for Show to get movie roles. Also, Hall's "Hey, was Andre your dad?" line is now scandalous because Hall is talking about Big Show's former gimmick, and probably he now said "Hey, I loved you in your old Andre gimmick, I can't wait to some day have pinned you while you use it."

As someone with a keen interest in Wrestling Law (legality and contract law as they exist and are enforced within the world of wrestling), I'm obviously gutted by the lazy and illogical the handling of Big Show's Iron-Clad Contract. This is one of the worst storyline betrayals I can remember and can only be saved if a returning David Otunga shows up and turns face by reading fine print that proves that Show can do whatever he wants with no consequences and we get a series of Otunga/Maddox skits that culminates in Otunga/Maddox for the third annual Miracle On 34th Street Fight.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    The angle is so over that it single-handedly salvaged Cody's dead-in-the-harbor babyface turn. Cody was fantastic. It was like his tribute to the late dead Ted DiBiase II, the face turn against the overbearing Legacy leader they never got around to.
I was surprised - given my "a good gimmick to repackage Ted Jr. in would be as a guy who is fired" stance - to also be bummed out that Ted Jr. wasn't there (so he could, in turn, be fired or killed to get heat on HHH and Orton).

If Cody was getting time off, I thought this was a pretty great way to do it. Gives Orton a needed clean win over someone people care about, gives Rhodes a genuine face direction after the pretty terrible "I'm a face now because of...reasons!" post Money In The Bank logic and finally lets Cody embrace his inner-Dusty. Fired Up Man Of The People Rhodes Family Avenging Cody Rhodes is a thing I want to watch on TV and enjoy for several weeks before complaining about it.

My hope is, he returns disguised as Doink, then removes the Doink makeup to reveal Goldust makeup under it, then removes the Goldust makeup to reveal his face protector mask so we know it's Cody.

Since Edge is set to be on next week's show, I think we can all agree that the best possible use of him is a backstage segment joined in progress where he's finishing a conversation with Christian and all we hear of it is "...seriously, though, if there's anything I can do, anything at all..." to further Shapiro's "Christian Is Dying" subplot.

Connected to nothing else, I really, inexplicably, want an RVD turn at some point where he becomes Corporate World Heavyweight Champion Robert Van Dam and wears suits and cuts the ponytail. I don't know or care where it would go or what the upside would be (aside from maybe a brief Punk/RVD feud, I guess), but it should happen.
Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

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Last activity: 20 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.37
The Big Show angle appeared really effective on paper, but played to a dead silent crowd. Pretty surprising, since the crowd reacted the correct way throughout the rest of the night, especially for Cody. It was almost as if the crowd didn't want to see Bryan attacking a distraught Show.

I'm pretty complimentary of almost everything WWE has been doing in the past 1+ month, but man, that Ricardo-RVD pairing is horrible. Ricardo looks like a goof without the suit, sounds worse when doing an introduction in English, and the whole thing takes away the Points To Self intro.

(edited by Mr Shh on 3.9.13 1011)


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TheGreatWhiteBob
Tocino








Since: 5.3.11
From: England

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#18 Posted on
Still digging RAW but I'm definitely ready for a hope spot. Just one week of Bryan (or Show, or even Ziggler) standing tall at the end of the show to establish that the Facgime aren't completely unstoppable. I'm guessing we get that next week though.

Big Show's "ironclad" contract seems decidedly un-ironclad, but at least they're not pretending the contract doesn't exist. It's pretty rare that they actually bother with continuity of this kinda stuff. So it's progress if nothing else. It feels for all the world that they're building towards Big Show vs HHH which doesn't particularly excite me but the build has at least been pretty good with Show flexing his thespian muscles each week. Carrying on with the 1999 parallels (to go along with HHH as Vince, Steph as Shane, Orton as Rock, Bryan as Foley, and The Shield as Big Boss Man), Big Show is now 1999 Kane, reluctantly doing the corporate stable's bidding but not being able to do so without experiencing extreme inner turmoil.

Orton/Rhodes was Cody's best match in forever. They're doing a good job of establishing potential allies for Bryan. An Orton/HHH/Shield vs Bryan/Show/Ziggler/Miz/Rhodes Survivor Series match could be pretty great.

I was hoping they'd build on the momentum of AJ's promo from last week, but they pretty much retconned the sentiment of said promo. On commentary, AJ's beef with the Total Divas went from "they're only here because of their looks, I'm here because I work hard" to "I'm jealous of the attention they get". It's a subtle shift in tone, but a telling one.

Night of Champions is looking pretty good on paper. Ziggler vs Ambrose (assuming that's what they're building to) should be pretty great.



"That's some shameful shit..."
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 hour
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.42
Lets assume for a moment that they have this planned out. They want a "moment". A "moment" means things like the right people at the right time.....at the right place. Yesterday was not the right place. Crowd wouldn't have went for it, I don't think. And they'll be a hope spot on Smackdown. Maybe. MAYBE.

But if you want to know where the true revolution takes place, there's only one location that makes sense.

Canada.

Toronto is on Monday, Ottawa on Friday (well, Tuesday). My prediction is that we'll see major movements happening on Monday.






"You can't put a price on integrity"
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.85
Toronto is one of those "Bizarro audience" sites. I think the WWE will be wary of relying on them for a engineered moment. Insane crowd? Yes yes yes. Obedient crowd? No no no.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
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Geemoney, I'd just like to congratulate you on your initiative in doing this book. It sounds good, and ECW Press has published a lot of great wrestling books.... most recently I really enjoyed Jimmy Hart's autobiography that they published.
Related threads: Raw #1057 8/26/13 - Raw #1056 8/19/13 - Raw #1055 8/12/13 - More...
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