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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw #1035 3-25-13
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It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.37
A main event Q'n'A debate.

These bastards ended the show with more than half an hour of talking...talking...about NOTHING! And it went all the way to 8:30! I want that last 30 minutes of my life back!

The rest of the show is a complete blur to me, because...oh GOD, that main event!

Is the mentality that everyone's going to pay for Wrestlemania anyway, so they purposely stopped trying to sell the show?

Positives: The Shield/Wacky Three-Man Squad That Can't Get Along, Jericho/Fandango, and the Jericho/Ziggler match.

That's all this show gets from me. Whoever wrote this show should go play in traffic.

(edited by It's False on 25.3.13 2106)



WE are the tag team champions!
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Lexus
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.74
My girlfriend won tonight.

"When AJ turned around and kissed him (Dolph Ziggler), I totally thought he was then going to turn and kiss the big black dude."



"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Frown and the world laughs at you."
-Me.
Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.45
My only hope is that Cena's "you didn't really beat me Rock, I just made a mistake!" talk is the hint of a heel turn.



"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 1 day
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.73
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    My only hope is that Cena's "you didn't really beat me Rock, I just made a mistake!" talk is the hint of a heel turn.

Let me predict your future. Someone is going to say something about "make-a-wish", merchandise, kids, and women, and thus, Cena will never turn heel for the next thousand years. I don't agree with it, but that's what someone says every time a heel turn is mentioned, so there ya go.

This feels like the buildup for In Your House: Put Up Your Dukes. Main event is the only thing that feels Mania worthy. I liked the last segment; really astounded people thought it was nothing. These are still the two best guys for promos with intensity, and they had intensity tonight. I also liked the panel. If nothing else, it was a new idea. Granted, this angle should have been here two weeks ago, and Rock's absences badly hurt it, but they knew his schedule when they decided to put the belt on him. This is a show that has already done like a ten million dollar gate and is probably legitimately sold out by now. With the price increase, even if they don't top last year's number for buys they'll still make more money. So what, exactly, are people expecting, other than "better than this"? I am not blown away either, but meh... I am mildly interested now. Kind of.





Quiet, Or Papa Spank!
AlbySure
Boerewors








Since: 10.12.01
From: LA

Since last post: 23 days
Last activity: 6 hours
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.65
Booker T's heel turn further foreshadowed by falsely declaring that he was the only guy in the panel to wrestle both Rock and Cena (lest we forget Mick Foley's participation in the 2007 Vengeance five-way main event... which Booker was also in).
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.37
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
      Originally posted by Big Bad
      My only hope is that Cena's "you didn't really beat me Rock, I just made a mistake!" talk is the hint of a heel turn.

    Let me predict your future. Someone is going to say something about "make-a-wish", merchandise, kids, and women, and thus, Cena will never turn heel for the next thousand years. I don't agree with it, but that's what someone says every time a heel turn is mentioned, so there ya go.




The logical response to this SHOULD be, "Well, simply build SOMEONE ELSE up and let THEM take that Make-A-Wish, merchandise, child superhero role." Unfortunately, there simply IS no one else, because everyone in this company either doesn't fit that profile or has been buried beyond belief.

-Punk? Absolutely not. It'd be out of character for him, even if he did go back to being a babyface. He's simply not that type.
-Orton? Again, doesn't fit with his persona.
-Big Show? Maybe, but we've already seen that he can't draw as a top babyface. (All apologies to cfgb, who loves the guy.) Not to mention, how much time does he have left?
-Ryback? Nope. Again, doesn't fit his character.
-Daniel Bryan? Buried. (Though he's salvageable.)
-Kofi Kingston? Perfect personality, but buried.
-Zack Ryder? Also perfect, but totally buried.
-Justin Gabriel? Has the look, but buried.
-Tyson Kidd? Has the tools, but buried.
-Rey Mysterio? No longer reliable, because of his injuries.
-Sin Cara? Younger than Rey, but the language barrier is a big deal.
-Brodus Clay? Has the perfect look and persona, but every time it looks like they're about to pull the trigger, they book Big Show to knock his lights out again, forcing them to start from scratch.
-Alberto Del Rio? Not over. At least not yet. Another maybe, but not even close to Cena's level. Like Justin Shapiro said in a previous Raw thread, he's a likelier candidate to take Rey's old "Mexican ambassador" role.
-The Miz? If he ever gets his shit together in the ring, the company could give him a shot, but right now, it's a no.

Really, the only one that could possibly come even close to filling the void left by Cena would be Sheamus. His stock dropped a bit in the last few months, but he's a lovable guy, has decent mic skills, puts on good matches, and has the "I used to be bullied" backstory that the PG crowd just eats up. He's the best replacement for Cena they have right now.

The fact that no one is ready to step up to fill Cena's shoes and allow the flexibility for a heel turn is an indictment of The E's entire system and their lack of ability to create any draws outside of Cena. If they had actually PUSHED SOMEONE NEW with half the effort they've given John Cena on a weekly basis for almost TEN YEARS, they wouldn't have this problem.

(edited by It's False on 25.3.13 2349)


WE are the tag team champions!
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 1 day
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.38
    Originally posted by It's False
    The logical response to this SHOULD be, "Well, simply build SOMEONE ELSE up and let THEM take that Make-A-Wish, merchandise, child superhero role." Unfortunately, there simply IS no one else, because everyone in this company either doesn't fit that profile or has been buried beyond belief.

When they did it with Hogan, they had Sting. When they did it with Austin, they had The Rock. But still, I think you can do it without another main event-level guy ready to go. You just have to redevelop characters and make the audience see them in ways we haven't seen them before.

Yeah, Sting was already a top star in WCW when Hogan turned, but Goldberg came much after the heel turn and Piper was brought in during it. Maybe Sheamus would fill more of a "Lex Luger" lameduck type role while someone else further down the card was built, but it's not like there's no one to oppose a heel Cena. WWE has almost an overabundance of faces to at least challenge him.

More than anything else, they need to create the vacuum first with a Cena heel turn and THEN work on filling it with someone. Just the air of uncertainty of not having that top babyface would make whoever does step into that role all that much more of a hero.

I think it's even cooler when the babyface opposing the heel is a dark horse candidate. My money is still on Cody Rhodes as the guy with the most potential to be a main eventer someday.

In fact, hell, snag Sting from TNA and have one of Cena's boyhood heroes be the first to challenge him. (Obviously that won't happen)


I liked the last segment, although it was too long, but really we shouldn't be having this interview with two weeks to go till WrestleMania. I feel like THIS should have been the last interview with things getting a little more physical between the two in the buildup.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 26.3.13 0029)
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 16 hours
Last activity: 16 hours
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.73
Sheamus is absolutely ready to take up that mantle.

If their last desperate act to make this show seem newsworthy is to tease a Cena heel turn they'd better be willing to deliver.
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 14 hours
Last activity: 14 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.60
    Originally posted by Lexus
    My girlfriend won tonight.

    "When AJ turned around and kissed him (Dolph Ziggler), I totally thought he was then going to turn and kiss the big black dude."


My wife said the exact same thing.

As for the main event debate/promo/whatever, I thought it was mostly hot air until Cena went ahead and cut a blistering heel promo for five minutes in the middle of it. I missed that guy. Telling me that the real reason Cena wants this rematch so bad is because he doesn't accept that Rock beat him the first time, and that no matter how much he talks about respect, the fact is that he hates the Rock for what happened last year and want to absolutely ruin him this year, that's how you put heat on an angle. Of course, others are right, and that's the promo that should have been cut weeks ago so that they could build off of it. I guess we'll see where this goes in the next week, but as of right now, I'm just not invested enough in WrestleMania to drop the cash on it.
Tyler Durden
Landjager








Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 11 hours
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.61
After another awesome RAW, aren't we all now superexcited for this year's Wrestlemania? *

















*sarcasm!



#WatchROH
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 172 days
Last activity: 172 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.45
    Originally posted by Tyler Durden
    After another awesome RAW, aren't we all now superexcited for this year's Wrestlemania?


First, in the interest of fairness, that was a WAY better RAW than last week's Nitro 2000.

Second, I live Tweeted RAW and rather than rewriting everything I said, I'd invite you to check out my Twitter feed (twitter.com). I actually LIKED Cena and Rock's Q&A panel. It was much more effective, to me anyway, than I expected it to be.

Plus I have a lot of Fandango jokes, like:






"Cody, I mustache you a question." - The Miz
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 17 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.80
Jericho is a miracle worker because he got Fandango over last night. I pray to God his flying legdrop is called the Ballroom.

How many tag matches have Ziggler and Big E had? Two? And they get a title shot at Mania? OK.

For all the gripes about the Mania card, we get at least three matches where the audience will be split: Taker/Punk, Cena/Rock, and Henry/Ryback.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 172 days
Last activity: 172 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.45
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    I pray to God his flying legdrop is called the Ballroom.


Mirrorball.

Ziggy and Big E. get a title shot because the tag team champions used to date AJ. That's as good a reason as any.



"Cody, I mustache you a question." - The Miz
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 17 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.80
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Ziggy and Big E. get a title shot because the tag team champions used to date AJ. That's as good a reason as any.


I'd like to see them in a tag match before then just to suggest the actual match has any significance.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Dr Unlikely
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 10 hours
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.30
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      I pray to God his flying legdrop is called the Ballroom.


    Mirrorball.
Ballroom Blitz.

If Cena's not positioned as a heel (he doesn't have to "think" he's one, but the story being told has to be that he IS one) by the end of Extreme Rules, they have nothing.

I'm fine with them dragging things out one last month by having Cena win via pulled tights or some other baby step half-measure, but Extreme Rules has to end with him crossing the line to meet his own impossible expectations. It's the only way to justify the last two years and the only payoff to the "last year I had to win, but this year I really have to have to win!" track they laid down last night.

There are probably a half dozen variations of a viable Heel Cena they could spend a solid year on - suit-wearing Cena, cowardly Cena, delusional Cena, unhinged monster Cena, etc. - that could all lead to obvious contenders (Corporate Cena goes against an Undertaker-humbled Punk, Coward Cheater Cena goes against berzerk Orton or Ryback, Delusional Cena goes against Sheamus, Berzerk Cena goes against Ryback/Sheamus/Henry).

Will they do it? Probably not. Especially because "I don't know, let's turn Orton heel and have him fight Cena again" seems like the easy out they think they're giving themselves. But this is it, this is all they have. They repeatedly avoided or fumbled any chance to have anyone leapfrog Cena since 2009 and (since he already beat Brock) there's literally nothing left to do with Cena other than "guy finds out that Hustle, Loyalty, Respect can't get it done." Ideally, that leads to the Bret Turn with kids as his Canadians, which all but happened last year, but the twist is that he slowly starts to realize/acknowledge that he resents them even more than the people who booed him because wrestling for them made him incapable of beating The Rock and becoming the greatest ever.

As for the Make-a-Wish thing and merchandise sales, that's a self-fulfilling problem. Until they give kids someone else to want to meet, they aren't going to want to meet someone else. Sheamus seems like he was grown in a lab to step into that spot, and as long as it's bully-killin', funny-hat-wearin' Sheamus and not the jokebook owning Whiter Cena Sheamus, there's no reason they can't work with that.

Though, of course, I still think that a properly-done heel turn for Cena gives them the perfect person to handle the charity requests and appearances, and that's ...Heel Cena:
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.80
    Originally posted by It's False

    Really, the only one that could possibly come even close to filling the void left by Cena would be Sheamus. His stock dropped a bit in the last few months, but he's a lovable guy, has decent mic skills, puts on good matches, and has the "I used to be bullied" backstory that the PG crowd just eats up. He's the best replacement for Cena they have right now.



I agree with everything you said, but the problem with Sheamus is he's the same age as Cena. Granted he doesn't have the mileage on his body Cena does (nobody does) but if Cena's being talked about as too old or broken down to go for a few more years, I'm not sure you can take a guy who will be 37-38 or so by then and make him "the guy" for the next 5-10 years.

Looking at the current roster now, they're going to be screwed for a true top guy, at least for a short period of time, for all the reasons you listed.
PowerPB13
Potato korv








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

Since last post: 13 hours
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AIM:  
#17 Posted on
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    How many tag matches have Ziggler and Big E had? Two? And they get a title shot at Mania? OK.


Technically zero since they've been saying that Mania will be Big E's in-ring debut.



-PB
Then: http://www.nwwwo.com/
Now: http://www.facebook.com/patrickab7
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 10 hours
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
I remember NWO Hogan doing Make a wish appointments. The massive problem for this Mania is there is no effort to make new stars. Everyone in the three big matches are already over or part timers or both. They have no match that is going to high profiled enough for Ziggler, Bryan or anyone else. They are all stuck in mid card hell. Mania is where they used to make stars. Now, its all about status quo. Why can't Rock face Ziggler or Bryan vs. Brock or Taker vs. Sheamus or Ryback. Also, does the McMahon family need these paydays? Its Von Erich booking.

(edited by lotjx on 26.3.13 0924)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
JimBob Skeeter
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

Since last post: 14 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.90
Anyone catch Jericho telling Fandango:

"Don't say a word........dont' say anything........." and then groping Curtis's ankles to get his attention? You could even hear it in the replay and read Jericho's lips, too. You need to hold the mic up so my voice doesn't come thru, Junior!
geemoney
Scrapple








Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

Since last post: 8 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.84
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I remember NWO Hogan doing Make a wish appointments. The massive problem for this Mania is there is no effort to make new stars. Everyone in the three big matches are already over or part timers or both. They have no match that is going to high profiled enough for Ziggler, Bryan or anyone else. They are all stuck in mid card hell. Mania is where they used to make stars. Now, its all about status quo. Why can't Rock face Ziggler or Bryan vs. Brock or Taker vs. Sheamus or Ryback. Also, does the McMahon family need these paydays? Its Von Erich booking.

    (edited by lotjx on 26.3.13 0924)


Wrestlemania also used to be the place where big storylines ended and new ones began. That's no longer the case, either. Like it or not, Wrestlemania has now become "let's try to top last year's record revenue for the show!" for WWE, not "let's use the Mania name to make new stars."



@gregmparks - live Tweeting of Raw and Impact, wrestling thoughts and other slices of life.
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