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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw #1027 1-28-13 (Raw Roulette) (Page 2)
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JimBob Skeeter
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Since: 2.1.02
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.94
They need to say that Heyman was bresponsible for this dude, too:

djp
Morcilla








Since: 16.2.07
From: 3rd Floor, NW window

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
I see that dude in the front row quite a bit.

I just wish John Cena's mic time was taken and given to Paul Heyman. There's your three-hour show.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.75
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    *(Am I wrong, here? Is it another Del Rio/Show singles match, and then a Chamber match for #1 contender? Seems like a waste not to have Show in the Chamber, and to have Kane/Bryan there but still tag champs. I'd be good with a Del Rio/Show/Ziggler/Jer​​​icho/Orton/??? match, where the last guy could be a returning Henry or Christian. Or Ricardo, even.)


I figured based on them doing such a big heat angle with Show and the Mexicools that it was to set up another singles match. But I guess it could go either way. Depends on how you want to do Dolph/Alberto. If you want Ziggler to steal the title before Mania, you have Alberto retain in a Chamber and then get banked. If you want Ziggler to steal the title at Mania, have Ziggler win the Chamber for the title shot, lose the WM match, and then cash in after losing like an emulator save state.

Or option 3, have Alberto retain in a Chamber and Ziggler use the MITB to get a Mania title match, which would be a new variation (as would lose then win). But I presume Del Rio will be under the full protection of only losing the title due to injustice.

And I figured they started having Kane and Bryan in-fighting again because they'd be in the Chamber against each other.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 29.1.13 1404)
Hokienautic
Toulouse








Since: 2.1.02
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
      *(Am I wrong, here? Is it another Del Rio/Show singles match, and then a Chamber match for #1 contender? Seems like a waste not to have Show in the Chamber, and to have Kane/Bryan there but still tag champs. I'd be good with a Del Rio/Show/Ziggler/Jer​​​icho/Orton/??? match, where the last guy could be a returning Henry or Christian. Or Ricardo, even.)


    I figured based on them doing such a big heat angle with Show and the Mexicools that it was to set up another singles match. But I guess it could go either way. Depends on how you want to do Dolph/Alberto. If you want Ziggler to steal the title before Mania, you have Alberto retain in a Chamber and then get banked. If you want Ziggler to steal the title at Mania, have Ziggler win the Chamber, lose the WM match, and then cash in after losing like an emulator save state.

    And I figured they started having Kane and Bryan in-fighting again because they'd be in the Chamber against each other.


One other thought that just occured to me -- it doesn't make much sense for Dolph to bring up unifying the title if that's not actually something WWE is considering. Would they be so bold as to have him win the Chamber, beat ADR at Wrestlemania ... and then cash in on the winner of Cena/Rock to close the show? Talk about elevating a new star.

EDIT: By the way, anyone else interested in this Intercontinental Cup they're advertising to start on Main Event this week? Looks like they're putting more and more emphasis on the secondary titles lately. Could be another sign pointing to an eventual unification of the biggies.

(edited by Hokienautic on 29.1.13 1440)
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.41
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    If you want Ziggler to steal the title before Mania, you have Alberto retain in a Chamber and then get banked. If you want Ziggler to steal the title at Mania, have Ziggler win the Chamber for the title shot, lose the WM match, and then cash in after losing like an emulator save state.
I really hope they do that. Although, it's almost too telegraphed not to make a big deal out of it in the buildup and have Del Rio plan for this contingency. But it'd still make a cool almost 2/3 falls sort of match where Del Rio has to beat Dolph twice and Dolph only has to beat him once. It's interesting.



    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    Overall, Rock/Cena II and HHH/Lesnar II have a dangerously high chance of making me tune out again for a while, but I'm holding out hope that they almost have to do Punk/Undertaker now which would be one of only two things they could do to get me through this Oregon Trail To Wrestlemania.

I don't really care about HHH/Brock II, but HHH still jobbed pretty hard to Brock at SummerSlam to the point where I don't care if he gets "his" win back or whatever. It's a sideshow, no belts are involved. It's filler. Could Brock be facing someone more worthwhile? Sure. Brock/Ryback would be huge. Brock/Punk would be epic. But it's not really a match that effects the other stuff happening on the show, so I'll let it fly. HHH could be making someone more current look a lot worse, so let's keep him busy with someone we barely see.

Rock/Cena II, however, I'm okay with. Rock winning in Miami last year was the right call to make given where they were and the fact that Cena just needed to lose clean to add some vulnerability. Still, it still felt a little wrong wrong after the way The Rock cost Cena the title against Miz, and the fact that he's a part-timer, to have Cena lose and not follow it up with The Rock putting over someone current on the roster.

The Rock is undefeated in matches since coming back (despite Punk's pin on Sunday) and he really has to lose to someone, and it should be one of the top WWE guys. If it's Cena, so be it. I'd take Punk, Bryan, even The Miz as guys who should beat The Rock, but if Cena can beat anyone on the roster but can't beat The Rock, it just makes everyone else look bad.

Also, if you forget about the other PPVs and just pretend like WrestleManias are isolated events that happen once a year, Cena has lost his last two WrestleMania main events - both because of The Rock - and now it's time for The Great One to get knocked on his ass.

Creatively, I do wish they did Rock/Cena II at the Rumble and Punk/Rock at WrestleMania with Punk going over ultimately, but the tradeoff of Punk having a mega-title reign and the business being huge for a WrestleMania rematch justifies Rock/Cena II. Let's do it and see what lies ahead.


That's not to say this is the most exciting stuff that could be going on in WWE right now. I totally understand how RematchaMania wouldn't appeal.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 29.1.13 1155)
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.29

    Would they be so bold as to have him win the Chamber, beat ADR at Wrestlemania ... and then cash in on the winner of Cena/Rock to close the show? Talk about elevating a new star.


Cena is not going to finally beat the Rock, and then immediately lose to Ziggler. John Cena is not Tommy Dreamer.

(Unification sometime down the road seems plausible down the road, but it doesn't seem like it's a goal for them, just something they'd do if dovetailed with other stories.)



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MUTigermask
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Since: 8.10.03
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
The MitB case that Ziggler is carrying has a contract for a title match against the World Champion, not the WWE champion.

(edited by MUTigermask on 29.1.13 1308)
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by MUTigermask
    The MitB case that Ziggler is carrying has a contract for a title match against the World Champion, not the WWE champion.


Right. So why have Ziggy mention unification in his Rumble promo? Unless A) Creative screwed up or B) The brand split is dissolving in terms of touring and the blue briefcase will now count for either World Championship. In which case, Ziggler ends up looking extra smart for holding onto it as long as he has.



"Cody, I mustache you a question." - The Miz
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.75
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by MUTigermask
      The MitB case that Ziggler is carrying has a contract for a title match against the World Champion, not the WWE champion.


    Right. So why have Ziggy mention unification in his Rumble promo? Unless A) Creative screwed up or B) The brand split is dissolving in terms of touring and the blue briefcase will now count for either World Championship. In which case, Ziggler ends up looking extra smart for holding onto it as long as he has.


I thought it was just to explain Ziggles' incentive for bothering to try to win the Rumble under impossible odds when he already had the convenience of the briefcase.
Chumpstain
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Canada

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.46
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Right. So why have Ziggy mention unification in his Rumble promo? Unless A) Creative screwed up or B) The brand split is dissolving in terms of touring and the blue briefcase will now count for either World Championship. In which case, Ziggler ends up looking extra smart for holding onto it as long as he has.


Ziggler would have used his Money in the Bank contract to challenge Del Rio, and his Royal Rumble win to challenge The Rock/Punk, thus winning both titles (possibly in the same night).
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.07
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
      *(Am I wrong, here? Is it another Del Rio/Show singles match, and then a Chamber match for #1 contender? Seems like a waste not to have Show in the Chamber, and to have Kane/Bryan there but still tag champs. I'd be good with a Del Rio/Show/Ziggler/Jer​​​​icho/Orton/??? match, where the last guy could be a returning Henry or Christian. Or Ricardo, even.)


    I figured based on them doing such a big heat angle with Show and the Mexicools that it was to set up another singles match. But I guess it could go either way.
    (edited by JustinShapiro on 29.1.13 1404)


It certainly seems like they're headed for a singles match but I prefer an Elimination Chamber match. I love the way that ADR/Big Show has been booked. It always seems unrealistic when somebody actually knocks out the Big Show with a regular wrestling move so I like that Del Rio has to come up with creative ways to beat him. Surely they could rig the Elimination Chamber in a way to have him win with some kind of creative pin again.



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.29

    I'd be good with a Del Rio/Show/Ziggler/Jer​​​​​​icho/Orton/???


How about ?? as Ricardo (thru circumstances not yet explained)? They can repeat the scene from last night, with ADR stuck helpless in the pod while his friend is getting mauled by Show again and finally getting released for revenge.

(edited by thecubsfan on 29.1.13 1553)


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Dr Unlikely
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.30
    Originally posted by thecubsfan

      I'd be good with a Del Rio/Show/Ziggler/Jer​​​​​​​​icho/Orton/???


    How about ?? as Ricardo (thru circumstances not yet explained)? They can repeat the scene from last night, with ADR stuck helpless in the pod while his friend is getting mauled by Show again and finally getting released for revenge.

    (edited by thecubsfan on 29.1.13 1553)
Yeah, Ricardo is exactly the guy I want in there for that, and for that very reason. #1 and #2 would be Ricardo/Show and Ricardo would spend most of the match climbing on things and running from Show before finally getting demolished, and Del Rio would be stuck in there until #5 or #6, making Del Rio Faces and screaming at Big Show.

As to how you get him in there, I don't know. Maybe lift the Joseph Park angle from TNA with Del Rio spending the next month "teaching" Ricardo how to wrestle to defend himself, and then have Ricardo win some match over guys at Sandow's level in a fluky way to get the final spot.
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    Rock/Cena II, however, I'm okay with. Rock winning in Miami last year was the right call to make given where they were and the fact that Cena just needed to lose clean to add some vulnerability. Still, it still felt a little wrong wrong after the way The Rock cost Cena the title against Miz, and the fact that he's a part-timer, to have Cena lose and not follow it up with The Rock putting over someone current on the roster.

    The Rock is undefeated in matches since coming back (despite Punk's pin on Sunday) and he really has to lose to someone, and it should be one of the top WWE guys. If it's Cena, so be it. I'd take Punk, Bryan, even The Miz as guys who should beat The Rock, but if Cena can beat anyone on the roster but can't beat The Rock, it just makes everyone else look bad.

    Also, if you forget about the other PPVs and just pretend like WrestleManias are isolated events that happen once a year, Cena has lost his last two WrestleMania main events - both because of The Rock - and now it's time for The Great One to get knocked on his ass.

    Creatively, I do wish they did Rock/Cena II at the Rumble and Punk/Rock at WrestleMania with Punk going over ultimately, but the tradeoff of Punk having a mega-title reign and the business being huge for a WrestleMania rematch justifies Rock/Cena II. Let's do it and see what lies ahead.


    That's not to say this is the most exciting stuff that could be going on in WWE right now. I totally understand how RematchaMania wouldn't appeal.
I don't object to Rock/Cena II on principle or anything like that, it's just that they didn't have the (foresight? guts? talent? all three?) to actually justify it. There's a not-too-complex scenario, one they seemed to set up themselves with Cena's empty arena promo last year, that would have gotten them there pretty easily. Rock beats Cena, Cena comes out and tries to shrug it off, only now it's open season on John Cena from people in the past as his old nemesis Brock comes back and crushes him. A physically and mentally broken Cena then tries to get his groove back at SummerSlam by going after Punk for the title, but he's not himself anymore and can't do it. Protege Ryback steps in and takes up the Punk chase while Cena, now truly in a terrible funk, gets sidetracked by AJ (and this can't stop Punk from shattering Cena's modern record) and then has an actual back-and-forth with Ziggler and Big E. Which leads right into the Royal Rumble where Cena is looking at Punk and Rock as the true top guys and the Royal Rumble as the only way he can possibly get back to the top. And just as it happened, the perfect last guy for Cena to have to get past would be Ryback, the guy who leapt ahead of him at Hell In A Cell. That John Cena winning the Rumble and getting a chance to set things right against The Rock would be a genuinely interesting character: a humbled Cena going against someone legit positioned as the Greatest Superstar Ever.

But they didn't do it. He beat Brock (and man, imagine if Lesnar wins that match and you still get to have Cena/Lesnar II with Reborn John Cena trying to finally beat Brock at either SummerSlam 2013 or WMXXX?), he literally said on TV "I can get a title shot any time I want", he cut promos where he made it clear he still believed he was better than whoever had the WWE title, he (again, the character) turned down the title shot at Hell In A Cell, he steamrolled Ziggler.

That's what I'm mostly turned off by, that they skipped over all (or even a few, at least) of the things they needed to do for Cena to cut that "I have virtually no chance of winning!" promo, which also would have made for both a more entertaining year of TV and a Cena with fewer people pissed off at him any time they roll into a major city.
CRZ
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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.43
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely

      thecubsfanHow about ?? as Ricardo (thru circumstances not yet explained)? They can repeat the scene from last night, with ADR stuck helpless in the pod while his friend is getting mauled by Show again and finally getting released for revenge.
    Yeah, Ricardo is exactly the guy I want in there for that, and for that very reason. #1 and #2 would be Ricardo/Show and Ricardo would spend most of the match climbing on things and running from Show before finally getting demolished, and Del Rio would be stuck in there until #5 or #6, making Del Rio Faces and screaming at Big Show.
C'mon, man, you couldn't find a way to inject El Locál in there while you're at it?



Dr Unlikely
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.30
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by Dr Unlikely

        thecubsfanHow about ?? as Ricardo (thru circumstances not yet explained)? They can repeat the scene from last night, with ADR stuck helpless in the pod while his friend is getting mauled by Show again and finally getting released for revenge.
      Yeah, Ricardo is exactly the guy I want in there for that, and for that very reason. #1 and #2 would be Ricardo/Show and Ricardo would spend most of the match climbing on things and running from Show before finally getting demolished, and Del Rio would be stuck in there until #5 or #6, making Del Rio Faces and screaming at Big Show.
    C'mon, man, you couldn't find a way to inject El Locál in there while you're at it?
Oh, I thought about it, but I felt like I used up my El Locál Fantasy Booking Privileges last month when I suggested a Del Rio/Rosa/Ricardo version of Cena/AJ/Ziggler.
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.59
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
      *(Am I wrong, here? Is it another Del Rio/Show singles match, and then a Chamber match for #1 contender? Seems like a waste not to have Show in the Chamber, and to have Kane/Bryan there but still tag champs. I'd be good with a Del Rio/Show/Ziggler/Jer​​​​icho/Orton/??? match, where the last guy could be a returning Henry or Christian. Or Ricardo, even.)


    I figured based on them doing such a big heat angle with Show and the Mexicools that it was to set up another singles match. But I guess it could go either way. Depends on how you want to do Dolph/Alberto. If you want Ziggler to steal the title before Mania, you have Alberto retain in a Chamber and then get banked. If you want Ziggler to steal the title at Mania, have Ziggler win the Chamber for the title shot, lose the WM match, and then cash in after losing like an emulator save state.

    Or option 3, have Alberto retain in a Chamber and Ziggler use the MITB to get a Mania title match, which would be a new variation (as would lose then win). But I presume Del Rio will be under the full protection of only losing the title due to injustice.

    And I figured they started having Kane and Bryan in-fighting again because they'd be in the Chamber against each other.

    (edited by JustinShapiro on 29.1.13 1404)
Drum roll...


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
Justin's right! Elim Chamber for the title shot, although the participants are a little wonky, with rather than Justin's suggestion of:
Jericho vs. Ziggler vs. Bryan vs. Kane vs. Orton vs. someone

it's instead:
Bryan vs. Kane vs. Orton vs. Sheamus vs. Khali (what) vs. a returning Jack Swagger, taking Dolph's spot after he declined (huh)

So without some further machinations, we're not getting Del Rio/Ziggler (at least as a scheduled and announced match), and we appear to be getting Del Rio vs a newly heel Orton (as Swagger is the only heel in the crew, and he ain't winning).




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Reverend J Shaft
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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.11
Is anyone else thinking Taker/Brock is a possibility for WM? Given that I despise Taker, the only match that wouldn't send me into a furious rage would be Taker beating someone who shows up only slightly more than he does. And it would make perfect sense for Vince to choose the one sure WM wrestler as an instrument of revenge on Brock and Heyman.
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.80
    Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
    Is anyone else thinking Taker/Brock is a possibility for WM? Given that I despise Taker, the only match that wouldn't send me into a furious rage would be Taker beating someone who shows up only slightly more than he does. And it would make perfect sense for Vince to choose the one sure WM wrestler as an instrument of revenge on Brock and Heyman.


Taker's not in good enough health to handle a match with Lesnar. Lesnar/Triple H has been the plan for WM since probably around Summerslam.

Also, Undertaker is awesome.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.76
    Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
    Is anyone else thinking Taker/Brock is a possibility for WM?


Since Brock and Punk are linked through Heyman, and Taker and Hunter are linked through their matches, they could always switch them. But I think Triple H is the McMahons' surrogate fighter now for all family business.

They had a similar choice for Mania 2009 after Orton punted Vince. Their first choice was to have Vince bring in Stone Cold for revenge (in Texas, for the 25th anniversary of Wrestlemania, with Austin going into the HOF). But he didn't want to wrestle, so they made Triple H the family protector.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 30.1.13 1448)
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.29
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
      Is anyone else thinking Taker/Brock is a possibility for WM?


    Since Brock and Punk are linked through Heyman, and Taker and Hunter are linked through their matches, they could always switch them. But I think Triple H is the McMahons' surrogate fighter now for all family business.


The other thing here is as epic as Undertaker/Brock might be, Triple H vs CM Punk at WrestleMania would be even more insufferable. That's not been a good combination at other times and WM would bring out the worst in it.



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