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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw #1011 10-8-12 (Page 3)
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Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 51 days
Last activity: 49 days
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.83
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      Originally posted by Dr Unlikely


      Really liked what we got of Barrett/Sheamus, further proof that Sheamus is capable of great things when they let him brawl and stop with the horrible comedy. Very disappointed, though, that they had Barrett and Show within ten feet of each other in a match that was going to end with Show interfering and it didn't involve Barrett taking a swing at him. That kind of match would have been a great opportunity to take Barrett into a real place of his own as a guy who just fights people and would have given them the obvious Sheamus/Barrett vs. Show/Tensai match they'll wish they'd set up anyway.


    TNA would have given this match a clean finish and both guys would have gained more from it. You can still do the run ins and advancement. Non finishes are a downer with most quality Raw matches 'it was a really good match, but ...'


Run-ins and whatnot are a clean finish?
wannaberockstar
Bockwurst








Since: 7.3.02
From: MA

Since last post: 5 days
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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.93
    Originally posted by It's False

    In other words, people tuned in for the first half-hour and switched it over to Monday Night Football.

    It can't be a good sign that they didn't get a boost from the overrun.

    (edited by It's False on 9.10.12 1653)


I'm beginning to think that nothing they do will ever make people on this forum satisfied, yet they keep watching just to complain.

The negativity is just a huge turn-off.
DrewDewce
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

Since last post: 24 days
Last activity: 1 hour
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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.84
    Originally posted by wannaberockstar
      Originally posted by It's False

      In other words, people tuned in for the first half-hour and switched it over to Monday Night Football.

      It can't be a good sign that they didn't get a boost from the overrun.

      (edited by It's False on 9.10.12 1653)


    I'm beginning to think that nothing they do will ever make people on this forum satisfied, yet they keep watching just to complain.

    The negativity is just a huge turn-off.


Here's some positive: I wondered why they didn't start the show with Vince's address, but realized while having to use my TiVo to watch Punk interrupt that speech that they were very smartly counter programming the start of the MNF game. Since the confrontation occurred right around kickoff time of the game it had me checking back during commercial breaks and halftime to see what was going on where otherwise I would have probably ignored RAW totally due to the football and baseball games.



"You are going to get a certain amount of snarkiness on the Internet no matter what, and my rule is that you don't post anything that you wouldn't say to someone's face."
Marc Andreyko (Writer of DC Comic's "Manhunter")
CEOIII
Boudin rouge








Since: 25.7.02
From: Franklin, PA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.30
    Originally posted by wannaberockstar
      Originally posted by It's False

      In other words, people tuned in for the first half-hour and switched it over to Monday Night Football.

      It can't be a good sign that they didn't get a boost from the overrun.

      (edited by It's False on 9.10.12 1653)


    I'm beginning to think that nothing they do will ever make people on this forum satisfied, yet they keep watching just to complain.

    The negativity is just a huge turn-off.


You're JUST figuring this out?



I'm Charlie Owens, good night, and good luck.


Get your Portable ID!
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.29
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
      Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
        Originally posted by Dr Unlikely


        Really liked what we got of Barrett/Sheamus, further proof that Sheamus is capable of great things when they let him brawl and stop with the horrible comedy. Very disappointed, though, that they had Barrett and Show within ten feet of each other in a match that was going to end with Show interfering and it didn't involve Barrett taking a swing at him. That kind of match would have been a great opportunity to take Barrett into a real place of his own as a guy who just fights people and would have given them the obvious Sheamus/Barrett vs. Show/Tensai match they'll wish they'd set up anyway.


      TNA would have given this match a clean finish and both guys would have gained more from it. You can still do the run ins and advancement. Non finishes are a downer with most quality Raw matches 'it was a really good match, but ...'


    Run-ins and whatnot are a clean finish?


I was supposed to have written You can still do the run ins and advancement after the match. Poor proofreading strikes again.



(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 10.10.12 0722)
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.72
    Originally posted by wannaberockstar
      Originally posted by It's False

      In other words, people tuned in for the first half-hour and switched it over to Monday Night Football.

      It can't be a good sign that they didn't get a boost from the overrun.

      (edited by It's False on 9.10.12 1653)


    I'm beginning to think that nothing they do will ever make people on this forum satisfied, yet they keep watching just to complain.

    The negativity is just a huge turn-off.


We discuss the show, we're not cheerleaders for the WWE.

The product they're putting out sucks right now. Almost every factor that can measured shows that. It's not just in our heads. It can't be a good sign that they didn't get a boost from the overrun. They normally get hundreds of thousands of people tuning in to see the last few minutes, but it doesn't look like they got much of a tune-in this week, even with people switching over and seeing McMahon wrestling.

When they get their act together and start putting out a product that is consistently engaging again, people will post about how they loved things again, just like we do when they (and TNA) hit their brief spurts of 'doing things right'.
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 51 days
Last activity: 49 days
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.83
Whilst I pretty much agree with Tribal Prophet, I do think having to recap SmackDown for so long really did a number on It's False's ability to enjoy anything WWE puts out.
wannaberockstar
Bockwurst








Since: 7.3.02
From: MA

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#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.93
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
      Originally posted by wannaberockstar
        Originally posted by It's False

        In other words, people tuned in for the first half-hour and switched it over to Monday Night Football.

        It can't be a good sign that they didn't get a boost from the overrun.

        (edited by It's False on 9.10.12 1653)


      I'm beginning to think that nothing they do will ever make people on this forum satisfied, yet they keep watching just to complain.

      The negativity is just a huge turn-off.


    We discuss the show, we're not cheerleaders for the WWE.

    The product they're putting out sucks right now. Almost every factor that can measured shows that. It's not just in our heads. It can't be a good sign that they didn't get a boost from the overrun. They normally get hundreds of thousands of people tuning in to see the last few minutes, but it doesn't look like they got much of a tune-in this week, even with people switching over and seeing McMahon wrestling.

    When they get their act together and start putting out a product that is consistently engaging again, people will post about how they loved things again, just like we do when they (and TNA) hit their brief spurts of 'doing things right'.


No one ever said you had to be a cheerleader but if you don't like something, why bother talking about it at all?
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 13 hours
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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.35
To be fair, a lot of people point out the good, too. Like Bryan/Kane, Punk/Heyman, the tag team tournament, the use of Ryback and for Johnny O, AJ's shorts. The rest of the show is just trash. Even some of the good I mentioned has been polluted by the garbage that is coming out of the writing room. Yes, its football season, but Raw's ratings have been in a downward spiral for months. Turning Punk has been a giant mistake and compounded with the fans trying him this week and his punchy response. They refuse to make the show interesting and when they do have good stuff, they find a way to screw it up at the end. They have no clear direction on where they want to go and keep believing Cena will save them or waiting to break the glass with Austin and Rock returning.

You also can't be blind by the fact WWE has too many wrestlers, a ton of them are comedy acts or generic heels. I understand they have a ton of time to fill, but they need to trim the fat. They need to focus on ten to fifteen wrestlers not including what little is left of the women's division and that is it. You can't build stars if you don't have the air time along with an announcer that buries the faces every chance he gets.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 52 days
Last activity: 48 days
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.69
    Originally posted by wannaberockstar
    No one ever said you had to be a cheerleader but if you don't like something, why bother talking about it at all?


I've been watching wrestling on TV on and off since the 60's, why would I necessarily lose all interest in this latest 'down' period? As a Cubs fan (not *The Cubs Fan mind you) I'm not entirely unfamiliar with dissatisfaction with a product I continue to follow.

I guess you could say that the internet tends to feed into people of like interests forming consensus opinions with their back and forth.. but hey, this very site is an internet messageboard and all, so there you go.

The 3-hour Raw has been a solid thumbs down from the audience, if not a total disaster yet. Add to that another new hour in "Main Event" that has started out by pushing two potential PPV draws onto 'free' TV, I get the idea McMahon is making the same mistake ABC did when they ruined ratings giant "Who Wants To Be a Millionaire" by pushing it to 4 nights a week. The "PG era" can be at times insulting, at least to those of us who watched the Attitude Era. It's not like all is well in Vince's WWE fiefdom.

And for anyone saying all we do is complain, go back and check out the Raw threads around the "pipe bomb", or even back to slash wrestling during the days of the SmackDown Six. Or see the last few months of Impact.



El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 13 hours
Last activity: 8 hours
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#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.43
You know what I like? Some of the "old school" practices that are coming back. I think in several respects we're seeing Triple H's love of WRESTLING actually making it's way into things.

- Longer title reigns.

- Legit high profile stars teaming with the tag titles, and fighting for the tag titles.

- Actual tag teams!

And also, the gradual build of a star through the use of local jobbers, changing up the music, getting a catch phrase over, and allowing him to showcase some moves.

The Ryback initially had no reactions. Now he's getting bigtime pops, chants, and all of this on the live show. The announcers are selling the guy huge, which is a big plus.

Small thing I loved? JBL saying "I won titles with my clothesline", and gave props to Ryback for his. Great rub there.

Hot crowd for the main event, can't argue with a hot crowd.

And man, Daniel Bryan is OVER.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 11 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.42
    Originally posted by El Nastio
    - Longer title reigns.



I thought about this during the Sheamus match. The two big titles haven't changed hands since April. That seems like a recent record.

The WWE title changed hands 8 times last year (Miz to Cena, Punk, Rey, Cena, Punk, Del Rio, Cena, Del Rio, Punk).

The heavyweight title also changed hands 8 times last year (Edge to Ziggler, Edge, Christian, Orton, Christian, Henry, Big Show, Bryan).

This year, we've have three top-title champs total.

You gotta attribute that to Punk's effectiveness as a performer against Ziggler, Jericho, Bryan, and Cena and his ability to sell himself and the angle. Sheamus hasn't had any quality challengers. It's Bryan and Del Rio. Big Show remains, as I've said since Swagger's reign, angle spackle.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.74
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by El Nastio
      - Longer title reigns.



    I thought about this during the Sheamus match. The two big titles haven't changed hands since April. That seems like a recent record.

    The WWE title changed hands 8 times last year (Miz to Cena, Punk, Rey, Cena, Punk, Del Rio, Cena, Del Rio, Punk).

    The heavyweight title also changed hands 8 times last year (Edge to Ziggler, Edge, Christian, Orton, Christian, Henry, Big Show, Bryan).

    This year, we've have three top-title champs total.

    You gotta attribute that to Punk's effectiveness as a performer against Ziggler, Jericho, Bryan, and Cena and his ability to sell himself and the angle. Sheamus hasn't had any quality challengers. It's Bryan and Del Rio. Big Show remains, as I've said since Swagger's reign, angle spackle.

Yeah, this has to be the longest simultaneous title runs since Cena and Batista in 2005. I am all for it, except the champs aren't always featured as the top guys. Sheamus sometimes, but only on SD, so...
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.72
    Originally posted by wannaberockstar


    No one ever said you had to be a cheerleader but if you don't like something, why bother talking about it at all?


Because if we only talked about the stuff we liked, we'd be cheerleaders?
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 11 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.17
    Originally posted by wannaberockstar
      Originally posted by It's False

      In other words, people tuned in for the first half-hour and switched it over to Monday Night Football.

      It can't be a good sign that they didn't get a boost from the overrun.

      (edited by It's False on 9.10.12 1653)


    I'm beginning to think that nothing they do will ever make people on this forum satisfied, yet they keep watching just to complain.

    The negativity is just a huge turn-off.


While I didn't like the Punk/Vince thing, I actually really liked the rest of the show - it's one of the best ones they've done since switching to 3 hours. But that's the problem. They do things I like, but they don't maintain a consistent standard. When I complain, it's not because I like complaining. It's because there are still things I really enjoy, and I wish they'd concentrate on those.
dwaters
Lap cheong








Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 8 hours
Last activity: 8 hours
#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.19
    Originally posted by lotjx


    You also can't be blind by the fact WWE has too many wrestlers, a ton of them are comedy acts or generic heels. I understand they have a ton of time to fill, but they need to trim the fat. They need to focus on ten to fifteen wrestlers


I feel the opposite- not enough variety in the guys we see. We keep getting tag and singles combos of Ziggler/Del Rio/Sheamus/Punk/Orton/Bryan/Kane.

It feels like they just throw the above names in a hat when picking Raw matches.

I do think it's time to do something with Kofi- he might as well have debuted last week for as much as I know about his personality. He's a great talent, there's just nothing to latch on to there.



"I've buried my brother alive...twice" -Kane in anger management
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 9 hours
#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.74
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by El Nastio
      - Longer title reigns.



    I thought about this during the Sheamus match. The two big titles haven't changed hands since April. That seems like a recent record.


This is why Main Event giving away Punk/Sheamus on a throwaway free TV show drove me crazy. With two of the longest title reigns in recent memory, I don't think there's a better time to start building towards a big-money title unification program. I haven't even heard the term "brand" mentioned on TV in over a year, so what's stopping them from unifying the titles at this point?

(edited by It's False on 10.10.12 1520)


John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 54 days
Last activity: 54 days
#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.48
This response moved to its own thread. (The W)

(edited by John Orquiola on 10.10.12 1558)

@CMPunk
“@ZackRyder: @CMPunk She played me bro” I got your back.
jon jones
Weisswurst








Since: 25.2.11

Since last post: 544 days
Last activity: 544 days
#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.02
I don't get how you guys can claim to be wrestling fans and complain so much. How can you complain about getting more wrestling? RAW expanding to 3 hours was the best. The matches get more time, and it increases my chances that I'm going to be able to catch it. And that Main Event show? I don't even know when it's on, but if I see it on the TV guide, I'll for sure watch as much of it as I can. How is it a bad thing to get more shows? I used to watch Jakked, and I loved it even if the main event was Perry Saturn beating up on some jobber. If you don't like what's on TV, then go do the dishes or some pushups or take out the trash, and hopefully when you come back the match you want to see is on.

And stop complaining about how there are too many wrestlers on the roster. You need people that lose, otherwise you'll be complaining about "why are they jobbing this guy out when he has so much talent?" That's like saying "why don't NBA teams just cut bench players 9-12 that never get playing time and average 2 points a game? They would save so much money if they just fired them. There are too many players on the team dammit!" Because you need jobbers for the stars to beat up on during practice (house shows). But people pay to watch Vince McMahon's stars during wrestling practice.

And I'll never understand people who complain about getting good matches on free television. If they advertise a champion vs champion match or a PPV quality match on free television, I'll make a much bigger effort to stick around, because I know I'm going to get a good match. I don't bitch about it and say,"They could have saved this for the PPV dammit!" And if they end it with interference or some kind of run in, then what do you expect? That's why it's on free television. Of course they're going to save the good stuff for the PPV. Then the GM can make a cage match or some stipulation that someone's banned from ringside or something to make the PPV really worth watching. You know, all they have to do is wait about 2 months, and then have Michael Cole tell me "At the Royal Rumble, Champion vs Champion, CM Punk vs Sheamus... FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER!!!" and I'll think, "really? Wow they've both been in the company for a while, I can't believe it's really the first time they've ever wrestled. But if Michael Cole says it's the first time ever, then it's probably true." It's not like I'm going to remember what happened 2 months ago. If it weren't for the recaps, I probably wouldn't even remember what happened last week.


And CM Punk hitting that fan was awesome. How can anyone complain about that? I wish wrestlers hit more fans. There's nothing better than seeing a fan rush the ring and get the shit beat out of him. Fans are the ultimate jobbers.
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.80
    Originally posted by jon jones
    I don't get how you guys can claim to be wrestling fans and complain so much. How can you complain about getting more wrestling? RAW expanding to 3 hours was the best. The matches get more time, and it increases my chances that I'm going to be able to catch it.


Well then, let's just make RAW a 24 hour show. I'm sure that would just be even MORE awesome than it is now. I mean, fewer people are watching the shows because it's not about putting random people in matches and hoping for quality. More time does not always make a match good. Did R-Truth and Brodus Clay need the 3 minutes it got on Monday? It probably didn't even need 45 seconds. Wasn't there a Damien Sandow / Sheamus match a couple weeks ago that went 18 minutes? That's bullshit. Did matches need more time a few months ago? Of course. Giving every match an extra 10 minutes isn't much better though.

There's a reason movies get scenes cut for time. Yea, you're chopping out parts of the show that hardcores might want to watch, but after a certain point you lose the audience when things go too long. Every form of entertainment has a maximum length it should go, and wrestling matches are no different.


    Originally posted by jon jones
    And stop complaining about how there are too many wrestlers on the roster. You need people that lose, otherwise you'll be complaining about "why are they jobbing this guy out when he has so much talent?"


But they're still "jobbing" guys with talent out. I don't even need to know who you're talking about because unless his name is Cena or Punk, they're doing it. They're making everyone lose. The parity booking strategy they're using is causing their product to stagnate. Fans don't get behind ANY of the midcarders now because it's been drummed into our heads for years by the WWE themselves that "The guys you're watching now don't matter... you may as well go to the can now until John Cena comes out."


    Originally posted by jon jones
    And I'll never understand people who complain about getting good matches on free television. If they advertise a champion vs champion match or a PPV quality match on free television, I'll make a much bigger effort to stick around, because I know I'm going to get a good match. I don't bitch about it and say,"They could have saved this for the PPV dammit!" And if they end it with interference or some kind of run in, then what do you expect? That's why it's on free television. Of course they're going to save the good stuff for the PPV. Then the GM can make a cage match or some stipulation that someone's banned from ringside or something to make the PPV really worth watching.


I don't think people complain about getting free matches on tv as much as they're complaining that the WWE has NO booking plan and is just making up shows as they go. They used to plan things out months in advance, and now they make it up on the Friday (or later) before Monday, sometimes making things up during the show while it's on the air.

Wrestling is about telling a story, both in the matches and in the booking. When they give away "money" matches for free on tv because they're short-sighted, and then end up having to put the "jobbers" in PPV spots, all that they've really done is sacrifice an enjoyable long term story for a 10 minute TV match.


    Originally posted by jon jones
    If it weren't for the recaps, I probably wouldn't even remember what happened last week.


And that's the biggest evidence I could possibly give you that so many hours of wrestling a week is not a good thing.


    Originally posted by jon jones
    And CM Punk hitting that fan was awesome. How can anyone complain about that? I wish wrestlers hit more fans. There's nothing better than seeing a fan rush the ring and get the shit beat out of him. Fans are the ultimate jobbers.


I wish you had said this at the start of your post. I could have saved some time.
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