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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW 10/31/05 (Page 3)
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britishiles
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Since: 22.7.05
From: Suburbs of Tulsa, OK

Since last post: 2058 days
Last activity: 103 days
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.06
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    And, that was sad watching Big Van Vader morph into Large Sports Utility Vehicle Vader


Now THAT is funny...



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Torchslasher
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Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 289 days
Last activity: 256 days
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.75
Yes, thank you Austin. Thanks for perhaps tanking a pay per view with your absence. Thank you for making some members of the IWC act like they know for sure how the angle was to play out, and thus can justify any of this. Thanks for thinking that you are still above the company you WORK FOR.

I'm sorry, but Austin has had too many chances to get a pass from me this time.

And for Justin, I don't think Hulk Hogan should have been able to refuse to job to Shawn Michaels either. So he would get a hearty FU as well.



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Since: 17.3.02

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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.03
Okay, if he had walked out of a scheduled main event finish because he didnít want to drop a title, thatís one thing. But he walked out of a gimmick comedy match against an announcer. Do you seriously believe there was someone at home who couldnít wait to drop their cash and watch Austin beat up Coach?

Frankly, they could have left that match off the card entirely and it would have made no difference in the number of buys.
2P4E
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Since: 4.1.05
From: SE12, London, UK.

Since last post: 353 days
Last activity: 17 hours
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.16
    Originally posted by Phantom
    Do you seriously believe there was someone at home who couldnít wait to drop their cash and watch Austin beat up Coach?


Absolutely.




Kevintripod
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Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.55
    Originally posted by Underwater
    holy fuck was that a Nitrotastic clusterfuck of a show.



I absolutely could not have worded it any better than you just did Underwater.



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Deputy Marshall
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Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 351 days
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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.57
    Originally posted by 2P4E
      Originally posted by Phantom
      Do you seriously believe there was someone at home who couldnít wait to drop their cash and watch Austin beat up Coach?


    Absolutely.


I'd have to disagree.

Listen, people knew this wasn't going to be a real match. They knew that it was just gonna be a quick brawl between Coach and Austin, and to be quite frank people aren't as into Coach as a heel to make him draw money in a feud with Austin.

Austin appearing at Homecoming drew big ratings, but I have serious doubts that any fans out there were going to buy the PPV with the sole intention of watching a re-hashing of what he did to the McMahons, but with Coach instead. Also, I heard absolutely no buzz, i.e. casual fans I know simply weren't even mentioning the fact that Austin was going to be at Taboo Tuesday.

The bigger issue was that they COULD have used Austin to draw a bigger buyrate, and they didn't. Same with Foley. These had the potential to be HUGE returns, and instead they were completely wasted. You can say Austin took his ball and went home, but only after WWE fumbled it.

And, as Justin and others pointed out, HE WAS REFUSING TO JOB TO COACH. He's the guy that created that second boom that saved WWE and, you could argue considering WCW's total collapse, might have saved the industry as a whole. You may not like his attitude, you may not like the fact that he said no to a feud with Jarrett because of personal distrust that developed from Debra, you may not like the fact that he's walked out of the company. However, you cannot and should not fault someone with his sort of status in the eyes of the fans (and most sane people in the idustry) for refusing to job to someone whose biggest accomplishment was being a colossal failure as a replacement for Jim Ross, especially considering how much damage that would do to his character. The presence of the guy no one has taken seriously in over five years (Goldust) and the guy who made a Shockmaster-like exit from the ring on RAW (Vader) notwithstanding.

Long story short: he's Steve Austin, not Chris Masters, and he has every right to tell the WWE he doesn't want to be embarrassed on a PPV by Jonathan Coachman.

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 3.11.05 1251)



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Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 215 days
Last activity: 186 days
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.79
    Originally posted by Phantom
    Okay, if he had walked out of a scheduled main event finish because he didnít want to drop a title, thatís one thing. But he walked out of a gimmick comedy match against an announcer. Do you seriously believe there was someone at home who couldnít wait to drop their cash and watch Austin beat up Coach?

    Frankly, they could have left that match off the card entirely and it would have made no difference in the number of buys.


Storylinally thinking:

The big payoff to the months and months of Evolution segments last year was Batista turning on and beating Triple H for the title.

The big payoff to the months and months of Benoit getting beaten down and screwed by Heyman in 2003-04, and to a lesser extent his entire WWE run, was Benoit beating HHH & HBK for the title.

The logical payoff to J.R. getting unjustly fired by the McManiacs & Coach running roughshod for months and months (as he has been since arriving in WWE and creating his heel character) is the heels getting their comuppance and J.R. getting his job back.

Austin was apparently told that the logical payoff would not be happening, basically negating all the build-up and making it useless. So, other than giving his heat to The Coach of all people, there's no actual reason for Steve Austin (multi-time WWE Champion and figure of mythic proportions in WWE canon, comparable only to Hogan & The Rock) to lose to a goddamn announcer.



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Since: 4.1.05
From: SE12, London, UK.

Since last post: 353 days
Last activity: 17 hours
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.16
    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
      Originally posted by 2P4E
        Originally posted by Phantom
        Do you seriously believe there was someone at home who couldnít wait to drop their cash and watch Austin beat up Coach?


      Absolutely.


    I'd have to disagree.

    Listen, people knew this wasn't going to be a real match. They knew that it was just gonna be a quick brawl between Coach and Austin...


Depends who the "they" you refer to are. People mark out for Austin even when he's not in a match at all. I'm not an expert on what causes big buyrates, especially since Sky Sports shows the smaller PPVs for free anyway, but i do know that i was sitting next to a friend during the homecoming RAW who was jumping up and down in his seat and practically wetting himself just to see 4 stunners and a few "BOOYA!"s. There's the added factor that "they" might have actually thought JR was sure to get his job back following a fun 2 minute Coach squash ending in a beer supernova.

To be honest i wasn't bothered with the Batista switch in terms of what i expected from the actual match up, i was just thinking that people underestimate the "StoneColdamaniacs" sometimes.



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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.05
    Originally posted by Freeway420
    So, other than giving his heat to The Coach of all people, there's no actual reason for Steve Austin (multi-time WWE Champion and figure of mythic proportions in WWE canon, comparable only to Hogan & The Rock) to lose to a goddamn announcer.


Except that it's not so much Coach beating Austin as VINCE beating Austin with grossly inferior goons (sorry, Vader and Goldust).

Look at the story: Vince and family were all stunned by Austin, and they fired JR the next week (complete with a Linda heel turn that could be reasonably blamed on Austin stunning her). Austin then accepts a match to get JR's job back against the guy who replaced Ross. Coach is then embarassed on a few RAWs, leading up the announcement that he would have back up.

And here's where it all went to hell storywise as Vince had a glorious chance to say that he had suspended Austin for some infraction, thus keeping him from championing Ross at the PPV and Coach gets to keep the job. If he HAD shown up, Austin losing to another Vince stooge would have been his come-uppance for starting it all and cementing the WWE cliche that Vince will screw over everyone if given the chance.

Austin losing cleanly to Coach? Yes, that's a joke. Austin losing to three guys thanks to Vince interference, that's another notch in the bigger feud.

I want to know why JR didn't tell Austin what the plan was before this weekend.

(edited by Matt Tracker on 3.11.05 1034)


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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 16 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.46
    Originally posted by Torchslasher
    Thanks for thinking that you are still above the company you WORK FOR.


Technically he only works for WWE Films by acting in movies, and isn't under contract to wrestle. He's paid per appearance for his Raw and PPV bookings. In that sense, he is above the rest of the roster, at least in terms of how much control they can exert over him.


    And for Justin, I don't think Hulk Hogan should have been able to refuse to job to Shawn Michaels either.


Well, perhaps agreeing to split two matches would've been the professional/generous thing for Hulk Hogan to do. But he's got creative control. So Shawn says "How about we do a second match that I win," Hogan says "Sure I'll do a second match that I win," and it's non-negotiable because of the contract that Vince McMahon gave him. All Michaels could do was stop pushing for a second match and complain about Hogan on TV.

Now, people might think Hogan is selfish or a prick for not being willing to split two matches with Michaels, though it was within his right based on the contract Vince gave him. But I'd have to think that most are going to understand why Steve Austin pulled out of an angle where not only was he going to come out of retirement and wrestle his first match in 2.5 years against Jonathan Coachman and lose, but an angle in which he was completely misled about what it was for and where it was going, so that WWE could spring the 'real' plan on him at the last second with the hope that by that point he'd have no choice but to go along with it.

What Austin and anyone who watched TV assumed from the beginning was that this was just the 678th rerun of the storyline where Jim Ross is cruelly fired then has his job happily saved a few weeks later. Instead, Vince waited until the last minute to tell him the finish and that Ross was not coming back. Which means that, as Freeway said, Austin was participating in a storyline that was -- without his knowledge (which they got away with by writing their TV fly-by-night-week-to-week) -- only designed to further embarrass J.R. and to get Coach and Stephanie McMahon over as heels.

Besides being dishonestly dealt with about the Ross angle, there's the fact that, as Cubs Fan mentioned, Vince and Hogan decided to tease an Austin/Hogan match before Austin agreed to anything to publicly 'shame' him into doing the match. So with the manipulation with the Ross angle, and the manipulation with the Hogan angle, if you're a paranoid rattlesnake like Steve Austin and you're asked to lose to an announcer and be storyline-fired, without any explanation on what direction that is supposed to go in either, then something really fishy must seem like it's going on. DTA (don't never trust nobody), especially with months of further political games to be played in attempting to convince him to do the Hogan match.

So with ALL of that in mind, I can't believe anyone would fault Steve Austin for balking in the awful three-sided face of WWE's 1) rampant booking stupidity, 2) firing and humiliating his best friend, and 3) dishonesty in how he was being used to the point of attempted railroading. The fact that he's not even under contract to wrestle is the legal icing on the cake of justifiability.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 3.11.05 2152)
PsychoticMidget
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Since: 2.12.04
From: Detroit, MI

Since last post: 3031 days
Last activity: 3031 days
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.76
Hear, hear! Great post Mr. Shapiro.



We're the middle children of history...no purpose or place. We have no Great War, no Great Depression. Our great war, our defining crucible, is a spiritual war.

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Damn, makes me wish I saw the PPV. But after reading the Results, makes me wonder if WWE read my suggestion about Kane and Taker... Oh, I hope. Threep's Kane/Taker Fantasy Booking
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