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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW 02/21 (Page 3)
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Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 5 hours
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
    Originally posted by GRL
    All I caught was the offending segment, and my first thought was... "okay, no Dave in the room... Flair just left a message on the phone, but did he hang up?"



Funny, that was my first thought as well. Afterwards I was thinking it would be a pretty creative way of having someone spill the beans. Instead of Flair leaving a message, they could have just had him saying something like "C'mon Dave, pick up" before HHH comes in ... and then just putting the phone down. The last image from the scene could have been a closeup of the phone with "Dave Batista," "Length of call: 3:45" and a voice from the phone saying "Son of a BITCH." lol. Either that or have Flair come back into the room and pick up the phone, then look panicked and say "Dave, you there big guy? Dave? Oh shit."
PostModernBoy
Cotechino








Since: 5.2.03

Since last post: 3250 days
Last activity: 2990 days
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.51
I think that HHH spilling the beans was in character at least. He fancies himself the cerebral assassin and he has a huge ego, so he wants someone to know what he genius he is for coming up with the plan.

I'm not as upset that they used the camera. Showing that Batista knew may have been a better option than Batista merely telling us that he knew. But they did need to show who was behind it all rather than having Batista sign for Raw and leaving the explanation as to why for next week. How it was done this week was superior than signing the contract and powerbombing Triple H this week and explaining why in an interview next week.

Now, if Batista had a cool submission move, it would have been cooler to have Batista accuse Triple H of being behind it all and attacking him, then putting him in a move until he confesses everything he said in the backstage segment, including that he did it to inspire Batista. Then Batista pretends he believes the "good for Evolution" spiel and moves to sign the Smackdown contract with a battered Hunter and Nature Boy cheering him on, before giving the thumbs down and power bomb.

The interesting part now is whether or not HHH sincerely thought he was doing what is best for Evolution, or if he did it because he didn't want to face Batista. Given the question of whether or not Batista should enter the Rumble, the latter is the likely possibility, although HHH will definitely try to plead the former.

Some predictions for the next few weeks: Tyson Tomko, fresh off his comments from this week, will be one of the wrestlers fed to Batista. Batista vs. Flair is also a likely Wrestlemania tune-up. We'll get a backstage Orton/Batista meeting with them comparing notes on leaving Evolution.

Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 1 day
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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.11

What happened to the whole Randy Orton/concussion thing? I thought it would have been a great continuation of the storyline if he'd have gotten a post-match Conchairto.

I was all for Orton, but after last night, I came to realize he is just so vanilla now. And the whole posing-raising-his-arms thing is REALLY OLD.

Smart money would have him side back up with Evolution along with Stacy. The whole "if you can't beat'em, re-join'em" scenario. And it would give Batista someone to feud with after Triple H.



BABY MAYHEM

Summer 2005
sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 1882 days
Last activity: 583 days
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.09
    Originally posted by PostModernBoy
    The interesting part now is whether or not HHH sincerely thought he was doing what is best for Evolution, or if he did it because he didn't want to face Batista. Given the question of whether or not Batista should enter the Rumble, the latter is the likely possibility, although HHH will definitely try to plead the former.


I thought it was pretty clear that HHH was doing this so he wouldn't have to face Batista, ever since the "don't be selfish" lines first started from HHH before the Rumble.
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by Mayhem
    What happened to the whole Randy Orton/concussion thing? I thought it would have been a great continuation of the storyline if he'd have gotten a post-match Conchairto.

When E&C were getting the chairs, I thought/was hoping Orton was going to be eating the Conchairto to continue the concussion angle, and to give E&C the victory.

    Originally posted by Mayhem
    Smart money would have him side back up with Evolution along with Stacy. The whole "if you can't beat'em, re-join'em" scenario.

I don't like the guy, but that would be disastrous for him. Evo are the ones who kicked him out, so joining back up w/ them would really make him look like a little bitch.



OMEGA
Lap cheong








Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 1849 days
Last activity: 1817 days
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.70
Yeah, I noticed the whole 'invisible camera' thing. I thought "That's pretty stupid", but didn't think anymore about it. I just think I've gotten used to WWE either doing the 'invisible camera' tricks or using multiple cameras and shots for backstage stuff. I've just sort of stopped caring about WWE trying to be Hollywood (I think being at the Great American Bash and watching employees working so dilligently in setting up Paul Bearer for his death without an ounce of sorrow for the guy has made me apathetical enough to just say 'eh, just a show').



The answer to WWE's financial problems...

Never 'Wiener of the Day', and is actually quite bitter about it.
JoshMann
Andouille








Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.64
    Originally posted by Spiff
    I don't like the guy, but that would be disastrous for him. Evo are the ones who kicked him out, so joining back up w/ them would really make him look like a little bitch.


Which if you're going to go back to being a heel it's not the worst first step in the world. But the only way it would make sense is if HHH were to use Orton to submarine his otherwise unbeatable challenger. And also this becomes Orton's way of making an memorable impact as Michaels suggested in his little pep-talk.

If HHH were to retain by sneak-attack RKO, it would have Orton be seen as a prick by the fans for interfering, screwing Batista out of the title and for reponying up to Trips. Also it would illustrate that HHH couldn't beat Batista without help, thus keeping Batista strong and still as a challenger.

And I agree that it would make him look like a wuss, but some heels aren't renowned for their courage.

It may be ripping off WM2K's booking a little bit, but to be fair, they made a killing off of Backlash in 2000 by doing it that way.



"It's wicker propelled by fire!"

Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 7 hours
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.11
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
    If HHH were to retain by sneak-attack RKO, it would have Orton be seen as a prick by the fans for interfering, screwing Batista out of the title and for reponying up to Trips. Also it would illustrate that HHH couldn't beat Batista without help, thus keeping Batista strong and still as a challenger.


I'm only thinking in terms of post-WM buyrates here, BUT ...

As much as I (and most other people, I'm assuming) want to see Batista get the strap at WM, Blanket makes a really good point. That way, Backlash could be headlined by Triple H vs. Batista in a Hell in a Cell match (or some other gimmick-esque match).

Having Orton cost Batista/re-join Evolution could provide one of the better PPV swerves since the Austin/Rock/McMahon scenario of WMXVII.

And also poses the question of do you switch BOTH Heavyweight Championships at WM? I personally think Batista could survive not getting the title more than Cena.

(edited by Mayhem on 22.2.05 1503)


BABY MAYHEM

Summer 2005
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 2 min.
#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.46
"that would be disastrous for him. Evo are the ones who kicked him out, so joining back up w/ them would really make him look like a little bitch."

Spoilers? I guess? According to Dave, Orton will end up on Smackdown as a heel, getting him away from Evolution and getting him back in the role he needs to be in, the two most important things you can do for him at this point. I think his actual jump is still supposed to be in the draft lottery after an interpromotional match with Undertaker. Whether he turns before, during, or after the Undertaker match we'll have to see.

As far as the remaining six weeks, that is a while. Batista & Orton vs. Hunter & Flair has Raw main event written all over it, but if they do it, I hope they would keep Batista and HHH separate as much as possible (Orton sells most of the match, HHH never tags in against Batista except for a few odd stomps) since you don't want to give away much more Physicality after the big table spot.


Flair accidentally leaving The Plan on Batista's voicemail is a great idea. I wish they would've done it that way, if not skipping the entire revelation scene, but oh well.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1895 days
Last activity: 1829 days
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.83
I think they're still keeping to their post-WM trade plans, with the two world champions-in this case Batista and Cena-switching shows in the draft. THat way Batista's got a strong challenger already built for him-JBL, and maybe Show-and Cena's on the live, edgier show.

Also, if Orton's going to challenge Taker at Mania, I'd love to see him talk H and Naitch into helping him screw UT out of his winning streak in exchange for help in the ME, only to get drafted to SmackDown and have to face the music. Picture Orton getting murdered in Hell In A Cell at Judgement Day....beautiful.



"That Squirrel Can Waterski!"

ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2446 days
Last activity: 2332 days
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.04
Has anybody EVER landed a concerto?!?!
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 7 hours
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#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by ShotGunShep
    Has anybody EVER landed a concerto?!?!


I don't remember anyone but E&C ever trying, but they landed them several times back when they were together. I'm failing to remember any specific hits, but I seem to remember them hitting one on the Big Show one time.





Become Republican!
OMEGA
Lap cheong








Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 1849 days
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#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.70
Edge & Christian use to hit the concerto all the time. The WWE might have gotten worried about concusions and other injuries and put a stop to the move. Of course, they still whack people with chairs on their unprotected heads (and don't get me started on how much they need to stop that!), so maybe not.



The answer to WWE's financial problems...

Never 'Wiener of the Day', and is actually quite bitter about it.
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 387 days
Last activity: 387 days
#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.09
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Originally posted by ShotGunShep
      Has anybody EVER landed a concerto?!?!


    I don't remember anyone but E&C ever trying, but they landed them several times back when they were together. I'm failing to remember any specific hits, but I seem to remember them hitting one on the Big Show one time.







According to the September 4th, 2000 edition of RAW Recap done by someone who no longer recaps www.slashwrestling.com, Edge and Christian landed a mistimed "chairsandwich" in order to win a shocking main event victory.
Kevintripod
Andouille








Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.04
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by geemoney
      The backstage thing with Batista listening was pretty good, and I'm not even gonna mention the camera being RIGHT THERE as he talked (oops, I did), because it's evident WWE doesn't care....
    Translation: I enjoy having my intelligence insulted, and hope that they continue to insult my intelligence again and again. Here's some more of my money, WWE! Enjoy it!

    Seriously, given that this of all storylines probably have had the most amount of time and thought given to it, the best they could do is use the magic invisible cameraman? Give me a fucking break. NOT TO MENTION Triple H giving up that he was behind the clips AND the limousine...BEFORE the contract's been signed? Give me a fucking break TWICE.

    "pretty good" is MILES from my evaluation of this segment. I may be the only person watching who can't forgive this kinda crap, as I'm apparently the only one for whom Batista powerbombing Triple H through a table didn't cast some kind of magic amnesia spell that erased that shitty, stinky, non-logic-based segment from memory.

    (edited by CRZ on 21.2.05 2333)


Wade Keller ??? Is that you ???

Count me in as one of the people who loved the ending and how everything unfolded. People who are all mad and upset about the Triple H & Flair "magic camera" scene need to get a grip and quit taking wrestling so seriously.



"This just got a hell of a lot better." - Stifler, American Pie
Jackson
Sujuk








Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 1898 days
Last activity: 1424 days
#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.10
    Originally posted by OMEGA
    Edge & Christian use to hit the concerto all the time. The WWE might have gotten worried about concusions and other injuries and put a stop to the move. Of course, they still whack people with chairs on their unprotected heads (and don't get me started on how much they need to stop that!), so maybe not.



Even when they do "hit" the Concerto they still clank the chairs together behind the victims head so I don't think they would need to ban the move.



Phantom
Frankfurter








Since: 17.3.02

Since last post: 2284 days
Last activity: 2260 days
#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.17
One other thing about the Magic camera: as dumb as it may seem, it lets HHH still lay claim to the Cerebral Assassin moniker. Batista didnt definitively out HHH as having a stupid plan that anyone with half a brain could see through. If he did, it would have buried that part of HHHs heel gimmick. Instead, it was HHHs overconfidence that led to his blabbing his plan for Batista, the camera man, and everyone in the arena.

I dunno. Were viewing a world where guys recover instantly from horrific automotive accidents, where the Peoples Elbow is considered a better finisher than the Spinebuster that led up to it, and where a woman can be contractually obligated to marry a man she despises because her boyfriend lost a match. Magic Cameras that only break the fourth wall when convenient are just a part of that package.
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 80 days
Last activity: 3 days
#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.58
    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    Its not like Batista had this dumb surprised response to listening in on Triple H's confession. He just smiled like he already knew it. The way the angle has been done, Batista has pretty much known all along that he wanted to face HHH.

    I don't think anyone in the audience thought Batista wasn't going to turn on Triple H so the segment was just confirmation for them, or those who haven't been watching every week, that Triple H was behind it all.


You are absolutely right about Batista's reaction being one of knowing all along, and laughing at the dumb asses talking about it with him being right there. To me, that is what makes the segment even worse. If the purpose of this segment was not to reveal Triple H's role in all this to Bastista, what was the purpose? The way I see it, the only reason this segment existed is because WWE didn't have enough faith in its fans to get it.

How about stopping the segment with Triple H's "More than you know" response, with Flair's "what are you taking about", but instead of going with the reveal, just have Triple H say it's not important right now and needing to concentrate on getting Batista to make the "right choice"? Then you have established that Flair was not part of the plan, and you can have fun with that in the next few weeks (leaving Flair's allegiance in question). Sure, they haven't spelled it out for everyone, but why should they have to? (As far as those who don't watch regularly, that is why they have recaps)



The Bored are already here. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. And no... we won't kill dolphins. But koalas are fair game.
Kevintripod
Andouille








Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

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#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.04
    Originally posted by Phantom


    I dunno. Were viewing a world where guys recover instantly from horrific automotive accidents, where the Peoples Elbow is considered a better finisher than the Spinebuster that led up to it, and where a woman can be contractually obligated to marry a man she despises because her boyfriend lost a match. Magic Cameras that only break the fourth wall when convenient are just a part of that package.




Exactly......wrestlers are doing things in the ring that would kill a person if it was real, but alot of people like to look past all of that stuff and spend their time worrying about where the cameras should and shouldn't be.



"This just got a hell of a lot better." - Stifler, American Pie
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 22 hours
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ICQ:  
Y!:
#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.44
    Originally posted by Phantom
    I dunno. We're viewing a world where guys recover instantly from horrific automotive accidents,
...which I believe was decried as pretty fucken stupid the last time it happened...

    where the People's Elbow is considered a better finisher than the Spinebuster that led up to it
I don't think people will tell you "it's a better finisher," but an elbow to the heart probably WOULD put you down for three

    and where a woman can be contractually obligated to marry a man she despises because her boyfriend lost a match
I believe THAT was decried as stupid when it happened as well...

    "Magic Cameras" that only break the fourth wall when convenient are just a part of that package.
...so I hope you'll understand when I feel it's okay for me to pipe up and say HEY THIS IS STUPID
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
    Exactly......wrestlers are doing things in the ring that would kill a person if it was real, but alot of people like to look past all of that stuff and spend their time worrying about where the cameras should and shouldn't be.
I'm not going to bother repeating myself AGAIN about internal logic and consistency and all that crap because obviously a certain portion of the audience is perfectly happy either (a) having their intelligence insulted or (b) not having sufficient intelligence to feel insulted.

Even in this very thread, a number of scenarios were offered up to get the big points across and yet NOT resort to the magic invisibile cameraman - even one or two that would have made for fine television viewing - and these people had under 24 hours after RAW to think about it before posting here. Contrast that with the team of "writers" working for WWE that had weeks (or even MONTHS) to plot out the final act of Batista's Big Turn on Triple H, and they took the cheap and lazy way out. Frankly, it was about as weak as a "shut up and enjoy it" counterargument.

I, The Viewer, DESERVE better. Am I going to get it if I don't DEMAND better? Hell, I probably won't get it either way. But the WWE damn sure won't get my fifty bucks come April 3rd if they can't promote an event I want to pay for, and building a storyline that I give a damn about is still the best way to promote an event. I can't think of ONE match or storyline on RAW that I would pay to watch play out. Now, sure, this isn't a problem if I'm just one man alone railing against the system and withholding his fifty clams...but what if I'm NOT?



When it seems like the whole world is full of idiots,
maybe your standards are a bit high.
- Guru Zim
CRZ
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I got to be honest, its really annoying when a semi-retired wrestler still gets to outshine and beat up the entire roster making them look like fools.
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