I'm in the "why the fuck did they do the camera thing backstage" group, as it lessened the impact of the final segment which could've easily been solved with Batsita revealing he knew HHH was doing it all along or some other plot contrivance that revealed it instead of HHH doing it on his own.
Also, I think HBK's pep-talk and then challenging Angle might've inspired Orton to make his challenge to kill the undefeated Wrestlemania legend. Just a guess.....
Part of me was thinking that Batista would sign the Smackdown contract, celebrate with Triple H & Flair, then turn on them and sign the other contract as well. Thus setting up a double Batista main event where Batista would win one and lose the other. But this is probably better storylinewise.
As for the "Triple H's acknowledging his evilness on camera like a dumbass" stuff. I would have liked it if after Triple H's Four Horsemen and D-X comments he would have revealed his actions by saying something like...
"This shouldn't be a tough question for you Batista. WHY DO YOU THINK I SET UP THOSE SMACKDOWN VIDEOS?! I did it for you. I did it to show you what JBL and Big Show thought of you. I did it to make you see what together Evolution can do in this business if we were both champions, and most of all, I did it to set that fire under you that you had at No Way Out last night!
But I would never do it because I was scared of you. Because, to me, you are nothing to be feared."
Originally posted by JustinShapiroSorry. I know it's one of your most peevest pets, but the on-camera plot reveal comes with the territory and is irrelevant, to me, to the execution of the angle itself by the performers in the final segment, which I loved and got a giant reaction from people who forgave Invisible Camera and were, in fact, delighted to be sharing a secret with their man, David Batista. I could've and would've done without the backstage skit, but it didn't affect my enjoyment of the important part.
(edited by JustinShapiro on 22.2.05 0221)
I dunno. I'm quite forgiving of The Camera, but this was an instance I felt they shouldn't have used it. Subtlety has never the WWE's strong point in recent years, and this just proved it. They felt the need to sledgehammer the viewer over the head that "HHH WAS BEHIND EVERYTHING!!!", when anyone w/ a functioning brain had it figured out already. Not showing the big reveal backstage would have lent more anticipation to the contract signing, since it would leave some doubt in our minds where Batista would go. Even though it was pretty obvious he was staying on Raw, the big reveal prior to the signing erased all doubt.
Anyway, Chris Masters is dead in the water already. Big, lumbering strong guy rarely works in today's wrestling world, especially when Raw aleady has Tomko (big, strong heel w/ tatoos) and Snitsky (big, strong crazy heel), and SD has Heidenreich (big, strong heel who writes poetry). JR & Lawler saying "it looks like he's cut out of stone!" (twice, I believe) doesn't help him get over, either. They might as well have said "hey, hey's big & muscular, please react to him." It may be too soon, but they might have to stick him in Evolution if they really want him to get over, because I don't see him getting over the way he's going now.
And, for the nitpicky, I don't believe Christian was the legal man in the tag match when he got pinned.
The HHH-Batista-Flair backstage scene didn't violate any rules, so it's fine by me. In fact, I was thinking "gee, how is Batista gonna find out about this...oh, ok." Cause in order for HHH's plan to actually - you know - work, Batista couldn't have known about it. By the end of the night, though, it wasn't important - Batista was determined all along to challenge HHH (That point was really hammered home when Long didn't even bring up the limo). The *really* important thing to take away from this, in my eyes anyway, is that Flair didn't know about this beforehand. HHH was unprofessional in not letting Flair in on the plan. He needed to tell him at some point before the contract signing, so what better time than the last possible minute I guess? Flair's involvement may be a key development in the story.
Originally posted by Spaceman SpiffAnyway, Chris Masters is dead in the water already. Big, lumbering strong guy rarely works in today's wrestling world, especially when Raw aleady has Tomko (big, strong heel w/ tatoos) and Snitsky (big, strong crazy heel), and SD has Heidenreich (big, strong heel who writes poetry). JR & Lawler saying "it looks like he's cut out of stone!" (twice, I believe) doesn't help him get over, either. They might as well have said "hey, hey's big & muscular, please react to him." It may be too soon, but they might have to stick him in Evolution if they really want him to get over, because I don't see him getting over the way he's going now.
I was surprised by how unimpressive his build was. I was expecting more mass, something akin to Steiner. I'm not getting the Ken Patera/Hercules Hernandez/Dino Bravo/Billy Jack Haynes vibe from him. He didn't even do a press slam on Stevie to boast his strength.
I also find the recent Simon, Hassan and now Masters wins over the RAW Squash Squad (Stevie, Slaughter, Hurricane, Val) to become less and less impressive.
"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
I have no problem with how it was done, but a better way to have handled it would have been to have it start out as one of those BATISTA IS WALKING(tm) shots and have him stop at the door when he hears HHH and Flair talking and have both him and the cameraman eavesdrop the conversation, but not have it as if HHH is making the confession with the camera already in the room.
It's not as if the invisible camera thing is unprecedented, but the camera being with Big Dave and not Evolution would have made more sense.
(edited by Blanket Jackson on 22.2.05 1023) "It's wicker propelled by fire!"
Originally posted by Blanket JacksonIt's not as if the invisible camera thing is unprecedented, but the camera being with Big Dave and not Evolution would have made more sense.
I was thinking they should have done a split-screen instead, where they show Dave walking in and eventually ending up at the Evolution dressing room as HHH starts laying out the plan to Flair. I did think it was pretty good as it was, though.
“To get ass, you’ve got to bring ass." -- Roy Jones Jr.
"Your input has been noted. I hope you don't take it personally if I disregard it." -- Guru Zim
I'm not as bothered by HHH's admission of his evil actions, but man, it would have been great if Ric Flair had told him he'd gone too far. Nonetheless, Flair's celebration/reaction was classic entertainment, even though nobody believes a word of it, especially the line about it being "the greatest thing I've ever seen in this business"
Also, I liked Flair's brief interaction with the Masterpieceofshit at the limo. I'm not sure I want to see Ric's career end putting this musclebound lug over, but I wouldn't mind another solid run for the Nature Boy. Wooooo! It does make me believe he's the next Evolution wannabe, and the tension with Flair will go on. In any event, while I'm unimpressed with his wrestling, his brief mic skills were delivered pretty well for a newbie.
Add me to the list of those entertained by Hassan and Daivari. I hope Benoit gets a good match out of him.
Was anyone else feeling cheated that Jericho didn't come out to Simon Dean and tell him to "SHUT THE HELL UP!", although I think it has been a while since Y2J used that catchphrase.
Originally posted by too-old-nowFlair's celebration/reaction was classic entertainment, even though nobody believes a word of it, especially the line about it being "the greatest thing I've ever seen in this business"
I immediately thought his Black Scorpion scheme was much better.
"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Originally posted by Mr ShhThe HHH-Batista-Flair backstage scene didn't violate any rules, so it's fine by me. In fact, I was thinking "gee, how is Batista gonna find out about this...oh, ok." Cause in order for HHH's plan to actually - you know - work, Batista couldn't have known about it.
Wouldn't it have been better if Batista figured it out on his own? Outsmarting the Cerebral Assassin? I mean, jeez, it wouldn't be hard for him to put the pieces together:
1) Batista saved HHH's bacon a few times already 2) HHH has thrown subtle digs at Batista 3) Batista won the rumble 4) HHH has said Batista being #1 contender means HHH doesn't have to worry about losing the belt 5) HHH's has been prodding Batista to go to SD instead of facing HHH 6) tape "all of a sudden" show up of JBL bad-mouthing Batista 7) JBL's limo tries to run him down, but JBL is coincidentally never seen?
The "Hunter spills the beans" backstage segment was not only unnecessary, but poorly performed as well. Flair is at his worst when he does those over the top positive reactions to something. He's better when he's the crazy pissed-off old man.
I was trying to figure out how they could have revealed the secret to Dave without a huge logic gap and I came up with Bischoff. Take away the backstage segment and have Bischoff interject after Hunter's spiel to Dave. He's so desperate to keep Batista that he reveals Hunter was behind the Smackdown footage and the limo. Then, after some good reaction facials, we segue back into how it played out last night.
There is a bit of a logic flaw with my version, I know. Bischoff has been acting like he didn't know who was playing the Smackdown footage. But his character's allegiances have been kinda blurry lately, so it wouldn't be totally inconceivable for him to let HHH get away with his plan in the interest of keeping the Raw champion happy. Dave could also reveal later that it didn't matter anyway since he had figured Hunter out from Step 1.
The problem with all of this is that the audience needed total clarification that Hunter had indeed been behind the plan all along. We had all figured it out, natch, but that doesn't change things. Batista saying "I figured it out, Hunter" wouldn't have cut it, Bischoff saying "it was him!" wouldn't hve cut it, we needed definitive, clear-cut proof that Trips was the guy pulling the strings. And you don't get much more clean-cut thn having the guy himself admit it.
Count me on the side of those who didn't mind the Invisible Camera(TM). Yeah, it's annoying, especially when someone like Lita tells whoever she's talking to it's a "big secret" and not to tell anyone ... but I must concur with OSH, the show isn't really made for the IWC, who'd figured it out months ago and knew a Batista turn was on the way anyhow. Besides, it's a TV show, we have to have SOME way of finding out what goes on outside of the ring. If it means suspending my disbelief about HHH revealing his EVIL PLAN(TM) in front of a camera guy, hey, it's wrestling, there's plenty of SoD going on anyway. Every time you see a move that requires the person taking it to help out, you're suspending your disbelief. Honestly, if we're supposed to believe that Kane can shoot fireballs and create walls of hellfire and brimstone (when he remembers, anyway) ...
I marked out like a mother when Batista powerbombed HHH through the table, though I was wishing he would say something about how he knew HHH would never treat him as an equal, even if he did win the WWE title.
The rest of the show was pretty blah, except for the tag team match, which I thought was farking awesome, even if there wasn't one single reference to being like 7-time champs AND brothers ... also, much as I am loathe to admit it, I LOVE heel Trish. She's damn good at it, and so sexy when she's evil ... hell, the black eye almost made her look prettier by contrast.
I never thought I'd be a Batista mark. Good job, WWE ... THAT'S how you build a face turn.
Its not like Batista had this dumb surprised response to listening in on Triple H's confession. He just smiled like he already knew it. The way the angle has been done, Batista has pretty much known all along that he wanted to face HHH.
I don't think anyone in the audience thought Batista wasn't going to turn on Triple H so the segment was just confirmation for them, or those who haven't been watching every week, that Triple H was behind it all.
"When did they pass a law that says the people who make my sandwich have to be wearing gloves? I'm not comfortable with this. I don't want glove residue all over my food; it's not sanitary. Who knows where these gloves have been?" - George Carlin
Originally posted by SchippeWreckThe "Hunter spills the beans" backstage segment was not only unnecessary, but poorly performed as well. Flair is at his worst when he does those over the top positive reactions to something. He's better when he's the crazy pissed-off old man.
While Flair may be better at being the pissed-off old man, his over the top positive reaction is still better than anyone else on either roster, with the possible exception of Eugene.
Anyone else hoping that Batista gets interviewed in the highlite reel next week? Will Jericho be put in the "welcome to babyface" role?
Originally posted by TheCheatThe rest of the show was pretty blah, except for the tag team match, which I thought was farking awesome, even if there wasn't one single reference to being like 7-time champs AND brothers
J.R. actually did mention the fact that E & C were 7 time tag champions and he mentioned that the two of them collectively had held 27 championships.
I agree. It's nice to see you sticking with this project. I know it can be a bit of a drag banging these out with little to no replies, but it's good stuff. This is one of those things that makes me sadder than it should. I miss the banter.