What is with Raven's backhanded complements (or outright disses) to RVD? Every time he's on Heat Raven won't put him over. So far I've heard him say his moves don't hurt, he's slow, and he copies his moves. It's done in the "very transparent backhanded compliment" way, so I don't think it's just part of the heel sctick (although the "copy moves" was probably just him putting over the frogsplash angle). Did these two have some kind of heat in ECW or something? What's the deal? And how could Raven think he would get away with this shit on TV? If I were Vince I'd take him off color right now for not putting people over. It's not like he isn't expendable.
See this is what ticks me off. Right now Raven is the only heel announcer in the WWF that actually ACTS like a heel announcer. And just because he doesn't put over your precious RVD you think he should be demoted. I hope your joking because that's fucking rediculous.
I think Raven should be promoted to Raw. Get Lawler the F out and put in someone that actually gives a damn.
We've got a brand new dance that's called we've got to overcome.
Raven was definitely playing heel well, but as I just watched the tape, Moe, I don't know how accurate your accusations are. Raven said that RVD's moves are "slow and methodical." He said that he "didn't think the spinning heel kick was enough to keep Goldust down long enough to hit the frogsplash, but he must have hit him in the kidneys."
Raven was being a great heel announcer this week. This should be listed as a good thing.
Maybe it's all a plan, see? Raven figures that if he disses RVD enough, maybe he'll get put in an actual angle with the guy. It sure would be more exposure than Raven's ever gotten before, so it's worth a try. If it works, Raven has a good chance to get more over, and if it fails, he's just being a good heel colorman, as mentioned above.
After all, Raven is a kayfabe "Genius", right? He could be sitting there at the announce table forwarding his agenda.
Everything I touch, starts to melt in my clutch........ I'm too much!
My point is that a heel announcer talks shit about the faces. Raven is doing that with every face BUT RVD. With him he'll give these weird little backhanded compliments. Stuff like "People don't know this, but RVD is really very slow and methodical. He runs the ropes slow, when you whip him into the turnbuckle he goes in slow, he throws slow forearms." That's not complimenting the guy, and it's not being a heel. That's running down the guy's wrestling skills on TV. I mean, talking about how he runs the ropes? There is no Kayfabe reason to talk about a guy running the ropes for christsakes. If you're really trying to put the guy over as "methodical" you'd say "What people don't know is that RVD is more than just flashy moves. He also has the ability to slowly and methodically take an opponent apart." That's just one example. He does it all the time.
I like Raven as a color guy, and I'm not a particularly big RVD fan. It's not a complaint, it's just a qeird thing that seems somewhat unprofessional on Ravens part. That stuff a) doesn't get RVD over and b) doesn't get Raven over.
The thing is Moe....is that Raven's right. I watched the match and heard the commentary, and thought Raven did an excellent job. His backhand comments (which he does do to others) I find fit into his character, and actually shows that yes, Raven does have a grduging level of respect for RVD. THe standing moonsault comment was one, Raven said that it's very little impact, it's just a flashy move. He's right about that.
Personally, I'd keep him at heat....then get him to RAW when Lawler finally goes away.
I just graduated from TV-Broadcasting. An educated redneck? WHAT?!
Moe, to go by CRZ's rule if you see it on tv it's a work. I think Raven is trying to be a heel announcer and with RVD he's having a hard time to find something to rag on him for. This whole running the ropes thing doesn't make sense to me either. But it's not something the average mark is going to catch or worry about. Anyways, it's better than him saying RVD's mic skills suck.
We've got a brand new dance that's called we've got to overcome.
Well, I agree that he's right. But the announcers are supposed to try and cover up wrestlers' weaknesses, not point them out.
I don't know if he's trying to start a feud with RVD (cool), trying to stay in character for himself (WAY to subtle and deep for me), or if he just hasn't gotten the hang of announcing.
Maybe Raven is trying to invent a new kind of heel announcer, because heel announcers usually rag on faces in ways that still point out the reasons why MOST people like them (and laud heels for the reasons most people hate them). Fans are not into RVD because of his slow and methodical style, or because they think his offense doesn't hurt, or because his kicks look weak because he tries to catch people in the kidneys with them.
Perhaps Raven's point of attack with RVD is to blast him for what Ross applauds him for - RVD's supposedly this great wrestler, while Raven in turn breaks down this pedestal Ross has put him on, calling his moves methodical and slow - exactly what everyone else is saying he's not. It's a twisted method if I'm right, but it's just a suggestion.
All I know is that if Raven tells the story about being stung by a Scorpion (What did you expect? He's a scorpion?) one more time (I've now heard him use this 3 times in the last two weeks) I'm not going to watch any show with him commentating again.
While Lord knows that I'd like to see Raven in the hunt for something else besides the Hardcore title, I've got to admit, he is doing one helluva job as the heel announcer for both Heat and Excess.
Even though they come at it from different approaches, having him on the broadcast team reminds me of when Michael Hayes used to fill the same role on "Jakked" a couple of years ago. Hayes was sort of a "Lawler lite" (read: horny letch) at times, but the simple fact of the matter is, the guy had actually "been there, done that" and offered some pretty decent insight.
Same thing with Raven. The man's been in the business for fourteen years and is considered one of the best, if not THE best in terms of ring psychology. That's got to carry over into the announcing end of things as well. He's a heel announcer, it's his job to p*** us off and from the looks of some of these posts, he's succeeding on all counts!
All I'll say is that when I've finished watching him and Coach on the second hour of Excess and turn over to Jakked, the ONLY way I can get through the show is to hit the mute button to silence Marc Lloyd, the only man who can make Al Snow REALLY have to work hard to be funny!!
To sum it up?
Raven's back on TV. He's doing a helluva job. I'm happy.
I like Raven and Coach on commentary. They are way above Cole and Taz's level.
As for Raven/RVD, I noticed what Moe is talking about once. RVD went for a backflip into a pin when his opponet is down. Raven stated that the move didn't really hurt to much, and it was more for show. The move got a two count.
Later in the show RVD went for the Rolling Thunder, an RVD trademark move. Raven stated that this move was very painful.
I have no problem with an announcer, and especially a former wrestler, talking about how much a particular move hurts. We can't have everything be a "Devastating Manuever".
I have to agree with Guru on the scorpian analogy though. I like it, but he's pulling it out on every show.
How many stops and restarts is this now? They looked promising at one point, but how many times is their fan base supposed to go back to them? Sounds like another MECW to me, just with a couple more DVDs.