On wikipedia, they will sometimes do a popularity check on google to see what kind of phrasing is most popular. Basically just how many results each one gets. "that's a given": 229,000 results "that's a give in": 76 results
Not that popularity necessarily tells which is right, but that's a pretty huge differential.
Which one really depends on what you are trying to say: 45. give in, a. to acknowledge defeat; yield. b. to hand in; deliver: Please give in your timecards.
giv·en –noun 8. an established fact, condition, factor, etc.
I've always thought it was a given, ie something that both sides agree is true.
It's typical in mathematical proofs and logic to refer to something that is already known as a "given," e.g., "Given that p is true and q is p, q must also be true." I would assume the use of the phrase in common language originates from this.
Much like "bold-faced lie" vs. "bald-faced lie," it wouldn't be impossible to rationalize both versions. But in this case I think "that's a given" is the intended phrase and "that's a give in" is a corruption used by people who don't understand the former.
There are all whole bunch of improper things people say. Usually it's because it's not a word they're familiar with, or they mishear it. Some people say "mute point" instead of "moot point". The song from the Navy is called "Anchors Aweigh", not "Anchors Away". You do something with "bated breath", not "baited breath". You are at someone's "beck and call", not "beckon call". Some are more common mistakes than others though. Someone who cheats at cards is supposed to be a "cardsharp", not a card shark. So says Common Errors in English Usage (The W at Amazon).
Originally posted by Mr. BoffoThere are all whole bunch of improper things people say. Usually it's because it's not a word they're familiar with, or they mishear it. Some people say "mute point" instead of "moot point". The song from the Navy is called "Anchors Aweigh", not "Anchors Away". You do something with "bated breath", not "baited breath". You are at someone's "beck and call", not "beckon call". Some are more common mistakes than others though. Someone who cheats at cards is supposed to be a "cardsharp", not a card shark. So says Common Errors in English Usage (The W at Amazon).
Here, here. ;)
"Teach children that they have great potential because they are human." -Warrior
Originally posted by Mr. BoffoSomeone who cheats at cards is supposed to be a "cardsharp", not a card shark. So says Common Errors in English Usage (The W at Amazon).
Now I was completely with you right up until that last example. How about the same reference source on "card shark" (dictionary.reference.com), indicating synonymous terms? Or this one (phrases.org.uk) from Britan, discussing both as possible parallel development -- advocating acceptability of both. And yet another (itre.cis.upenn.edu) about the not-necessarily clear etymology of the respective terms.
And I always thougt it was "fuckin' A", but have never had a clue why.
I don't care much about it either way, I just wanted to list something that I read that most people were saying improperly. A better example would be that most people pronounce flaccid wrong (it's of Latin origin, and should be pronounced with a hard c, no pun intended).