The W
Views: 101446308
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
19.12.14 1419
The W - Pro Wrestling - Question about the day Benoit died and the RAW episode (Page 3)
This thread has 17 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Thread rated: 4.94
Pages: Prev 1 2 3
(2067 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (53 total)
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
It's rather unlikely that he ever would've gotten the ECW title shot, but a decent lawyer would seem to have a pretty good case for paranoid schizophrenic criminally insane. And that's just straight up psych-based without getting into a wrestling-specific roid rage argument (which would be overly simplistic IMO but who knows what has traction in a jury trial) or Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy argument. It would've been a very visible Trial of the Century type deal, I think. But Benoit also wanted to die and die painfully, that weekend at least, so who's to say how much he would've wanted to aid in his own defense.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 19.12.10 1319)
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
    Originally posted by PaulKTF
    I hate to ask a morbid question but...

    If he killed Nancy on Saturday, and Daniel on Sunday; what the hell did he do to keep Daniel occupied on Saturday so that he didn't find her? Did he hide Nancy's body? My god...


IIRC Nancy died on Friday night, Daniel died on Saturday morning, and Chris died Saturday night or Sunday (it was difficult to tell because his body decomposed quickly in the hot weight room).
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 3 hours
#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.60
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by PaulKTF
      I hate to ask a morbid question but...

      If he killed Nancy on Saturday, and Daniel on Sunday; what the hell did he do to keep Daniel occupied on Saturday so that he didn't find her? Did he hide Nancy's body? My god...


    IIRC Nancy died on Friday night, Daniel died on Saturday morning, and Chris died Saturday night or Sunday (it was difficult to tell because his body decomposed quickly in the hot weight room).


I remember hearing a lifeguard say he saw Chris and Daniel on Friday or Saturday. He probably wanted Daniel to have one good day then the end. Benoit would have been found guilty due to how well it was all planned out. If he killed Nancy in a blind rage sure, but the way he killed Daniel as well covered up Nancy's death tell the tale of a very sane killer almost serial killer like especially with the religious overtones.

A trial would have crushed the WWE, because the media would done everything in their power to get the wrestlers to talk. The media was on them for maybe a month after the deaths, they would have had that same spotlight on them for a year or more depending on the trial. CNN, Fox and the rest would have eaten them alive just to get to NBC who would probably have MSNBC crucify them as well.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
    Originally posted by lotjx
    how well it was all planned out. ... the way he killed Daniel as well covered up Nancy's death tell the tale of a very sane killer especially with the religious overtones.


Does it?
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 3 hours
#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.60
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by lotjx
      how well it was all planned out. ... the way he killed Daniel as well covered up Nancy's death tell the tale of a very sane killer especially with the religious overtones.


    Does it?


In most insanity plead cases, a person just snaps. They usually grab a weapon, throw a punch, push or something that is quick and sudden. Benoit faked a sickness at home, did not return WWE calls, killed Nancy one day and then killed Daniel on the second day then sent text messages to friends then placed bibles over the bodies. This was something that was calculated out over the span of a few days. The moment, he starts lying to WWE is the moment the insanity plead goes out the window then it comes a conspiracy to murder.

Even with the brain scan which I don't really have that much faith in, the prosecution has enough to show Chris was in his right mind due to how the murders were structured. Chris would have been better off killing Daniel and Nancy at the same time as sick as that may sound to have a better defense for insanity. He might have found a jury who is confused by what insanity really is which is common in most juries, but a dead kid is going to tilt the scales to conviction most times then not.

As for the serial killer aspect it comes with the bibles. I probably should have said ritualistic killing rather then serial, but if he did get away with it, it wouldn't shock me to see him kill again.

(edited by lotjx on 19.12.10 1432)
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 6 hours
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
His diary entries, the divers saying they had to take different ways to his home every time because "they're following me", and other things like the shear number of drugs he was taking would point to him being insane for quite some time.

I'm pretty sure a scan of his brain would show major damage had taken place as well. Didn't they say he had dozens of lesions visible to them once they took a look at the brain? Those would have to show on any scan.
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 18 hours
Last activity: 16 hours
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.21
    Originally posted by lotjx
    In most insanity plead cases, a person just snaps. They usually grab a weapon, throw a punch, push or something that is quick and sudden.


I'm fairly certain that this is false. There's a pretty significant difference between a "crime of passion" and being able to medically demonstrate that an individual has lost a capacity to determine right from wrong.

    Originally posted by lotjx
    This was something that was calculated out over the span of a few days.


You simply don't know this. While I think it's fairly morbid to speculate on Benoit's state of mind and motivations, I think it's fairly safe to say that no one knows his thought process over the course of those days. To assume that this was premeditated and calculated is to assume facts that are simply not available.

What I do know is that no one I would identify as "sane" person could do what he did...
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 day
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.13
Loathe as I am to agree with lotjx, the lying to your employers to cover your tracks thing would probably deal a blow to the outright insanity plea. He was clearly pretty seriously mentally ill, but prisons are filled with people with mental problems.

"medically demonstrate that an individual has lost a capacity to determine right from wrong"

Here's where it falls apart. Mentally ill? Absolutely. But his actions all indicate that he knew how horrifying his crimes were. This isn't either/or - it's not "calculated" or "crazy". Just because he didn't plan this out and do it all in cold blood doesn't mean he'd be found insane.

I'm going to stop now because this is depressing the fuck out of me.
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 6 hours
#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
The problem is, none of us will ever know how often he slipped in and out of insanity. He obviously was lucid for wrestling matches, but a lot of evidence shows that he wasn't for much of his normal life.

It's very possible that he "woke up" to realize what he had done and panicked, tried to buy time to think of what to do, then decided to end his own life.

But like I said, we'll never know.
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 3 hours
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.60
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    The problem is, none of us will ever know how often he slipped in and out of insanity. He obviously was lucid for wrestling matches, but a lot of evidence shows that he wasn't for much of his normal life.

    It's very possible that he "woke up" to realize what he had done and panicked, tried to buy time to think of what to do, then decided to end his own life.

    But like I said, we'll never know.


With that I agree. Yet, the fact he was lucid for wrestling matches, lied to the WWE and then committed two murders on separate days is not going to play well for the insanity case. As astonish that I am Amos agrees with me, but not shocked to get a dig into me, he is right. As for the "crime of passion" that was meant if he just killed Nancy and not Daniel. He might have been able to get away with that defense, but again he also killed Daniel days later. I do think to some degree he did calculate the murder of at least Nancy since he did lie to the WWE about the sickness. What really scares me is if the WWE knew Chris was this paranoid about people chasing him, why didn't they step in?

I know some people here want Benoit to be back on WWE TV for a variety of reasons mainly due to him being one of the best wrestlers for his time. And to be fair, Benoit maybe the wrestler I respected and admired the most. He fought threw a lot of shit to become champion and his title win is one of my favorite wrestling moments. However, he is a killer. A child killer at that and if the last image of Christ Benoit on WWE TV or ever is Vince public apologizing for honoring the guy as well as throwing him under the bus, I am ok with that. I'd be ok if the WWE took a picture of him threw it in the middle of the ring and had everyone piss on it. The worst part at least in wrestling terms is that he took Eddie's Mania moment and thrashed that as well. He became a cancer who pretty much eat away at some of the best matches and moments WWE did in the 2000s. He can stay off my TV forever as far as I am concerned and I am a little astonish people are willing to forgive and forget just to watch a match or relive a feel good moment.

(edited by lotjx on 20.12.10 0802)
PaulKTF
Summer sausage








Since: 26.5.06

Since last post: 1236 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
    Originally posted by lotjx

    I know some people here want Benoit to be back on WWE TV for a variety of reasons mainly due to him being one of the best wrestlers for his time. And to be fair, Benoit maybe the wrestler I respected and admired the most. He fought threw a lot of shit to become champion and his title win is one of my favorite wrestling moments. However, he is a killer. A child killer at that and if the last image of Christ Benoit on WWE TV or ever is Vince public apologizing for honoring the guy as well as throwing him under the bus, I am ok with that. I'd be ok if the WWE took a picture of him threw it in the middle of the ring and had everyone piss on it. The worst part at least in wrestling terms is that he took Eddie's Mania moment and thrashed that as well. He became a cancer who pretty much eat away at some of the best matches and moments WWE did in the 2000s. He can stay off my TV forever as far as I am concerned and I am a little astonish people are willing to forgive and forget just to watch a match or relive a feel good moment.

    (edited by lotjx on 20.12.10 0802)


I agree wholeheartedly.

"But what about his legacy?" some ask.

Murdering his family including his developmentaly disabled son is his legacy and it trumps anything he might have done as a wrestler.

"Let's remember the good times". I can't. I just can't watch him wrestle without thinking about what he did.

"But I want to see him wrestle!". Well then frankly; you're a selfish, person who at the very least puts entertainment above the lives of a woman and child.

I'll admit I was never a big fan of him as a wrestler or as a character; but I at least could respect that he was good at what he did.

But that all flew out the window when I found out what he did. I just don't care how good he was at putting on a show- it doesn't matter.

If I were the WWE; I'd cut out his segments and matches from now on and never reverse that policy.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
    Originally posted by PaulTKF
    Murdering his family including his developmentaly disabled son is his legacy and it trumps anything he might have done as a wrestler.


His son wasn't developmentally disabled according to his teachers and aunts. But I would think this all goes without saying. The first thing that comes up in Chris Benoit word association is not "2003 MOTY with Kurt Angle."

    Originally posted by PaulKTF
    "But I want to see him wrestle!". Well then frankly; you're a selfish, person who at the very least puts entertainment above the lives of a woman and child.


Oh OK. Bit dramatic.

I'm sure there are some strange Benoit birthers out there who think his good matches outweigh all and want him restored to glory, but most people aren't as strawmannish and bring a touch more nuance to their opinions.

I think "get Benoit out of my wrestling, I don't want to see that jerk" is reductive in a way because the Benoit story is inextricably tied to pro wrestling, the physical toll, drugs, and Eddie Guerrero's death (which itself was also directly tied to those things). Yes, everyone else in pro wrestling has managed to not kill anyone, but it's dishonest to treat it as some kind of shameful outlier by Captain Murder who just happened to wrestle for an occupation.

That's a different argument, however, than whether WWE is under any obligation to include him in their stuff, which they certainly aren't. They already are, though. I completely understand people who have no desire to watch him in wrestling stuff. But I don't think a preference for unaltered historical completeness is equivocal to forgiving and forgetting either.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 20.12.10 1512)
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 18 hours
Last activity: 16 hours
#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.22
Not to reopen a fairly dead thread, but I just came across this article on Big Think regarding the correlation between head injuries and serial killers (just in time for the holidays).

Inside the mind of a serial killer (bigthink.com), Michael Stone, Forensic Psychiatrist, Columbia University


    There are other men who were raised in fairly good homes, or even rather normal homes, but who suffered a head injury that affected these key areas in the frontal lobe, such as Richard Starett in Georgia... and about 30% of the serial killers had experienced some form of rather serious head injury. So that’s a factor that not too many people know about, but that’s important also.

Pages: Prev 1 2 3
Thread rated: 4.94
Pages: Prev 1 2 3
Thread ahead: Smackdown #592 12-21-10
Next thread: NWA Championship Wrestling from Hollywood #14 - 12/17/10
Previous thread: WWE.com Top 25 Matches of 2010
(2067 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
Goes well with the "he's really retired now" thing. But anyways, it's good to see Sean Bean getting a new job
The W - Pro Wrestling - Question about the day Benoit died and the RAW episode (Page 3)Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.754 seconds.