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The W - Pro Wrestling - Question about the day Benoit died and the RAW episode (Page 2)
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Llakor
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Montreal, Quebec, CANADA

Since last post: 561 days
Last activity: 553 days
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.54
I don't think that I have ever told this story...

I spent most of that day talking to sports reporters in Montreal on background, explaining how important Benoit was in the wrestling scheme of things, giving them facts to use or verifying facts that they already had.

Most of them knew me because of something that had happened in Montreal in 2005 involving an independent wrestler named Kurt Lauder. (Feel free to Google away. Imagine a scenario where Robert Englund killed someone with an authentic Freddy Krueger glove, one with real blades. In that scenario, I was Wes Craven.)

As the day wore on, the journalists started hinting that the story was about to get worse, much worse, but all of them complained that they had trouble verifying any of the rumours that they had heard... but it did not look good.

My personal feeling is that Vince probably suspected that things were not going to end well, but had no way of confirming it one way or another and fell back on his "show must go on" instincts, hoping for the best, dreading the worst.

I say this as someone who was in a position oddly similar to Vince's - had to make a choice (with others) and made what turned out to be (in hindsight) the wrong one.

Hindsight is easy. Living in the moment is very hard. There is no time to make a rational choice, you have conflicting information and you desperately want to believe the best possible scenario.

Add to that the fact that the law enforcement officials who actually know either refuse to give you the facts you need to make a decision or actively lie to you.

I am not saying Vince made the right choice, but I know EXACTLY why the choice was harder than many of you realize.

-Llakor



"Don't Blame CANADA, Blame Yourselves!"
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 66 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
    Originally posted by InVerse
    It seems pretty obvious to me... Even if Vince had a clue as to what might have happened, it certainly wasn't confirmed at the time Raw went on the air. So which looks worse, doing a tribute and then having to apologize for it later, or not doing a tribute, finding out that Benoit didn't kill anyone and then looking like a total asshole for failing to memorialize him? It's much easier to save face after the former than the latter.


It'd be easy to simply say "we didn't have time put together a show" (even if it was just Benoit's biography dvd that they aired) and run the tribute next week. Yes, it would be a lie, but wrestling is nothing but lies, so it'd be nothing new.

I have to believe Vince knew before the show aired that Benoit did it. The police that made the call that it was Benoit got a lot of their information from the WWE to begin with. The fact that they re-aired the show for the west coast feed proves that they had no moral problem with running a tribute for a guy who killed his family, so that argument is out. I'd also assume that someone would have told him as a "heads-up" to get the lawyers ready for dealing with the media over it.
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 2 days
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.17
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet

    It'd be easy to simply say "we didn't have time put together a show" (even if it was just Benoit's biography dvd that they aired) and run the tribute next week. Yes, it would be a lie, but wrestling is nothing but lies, so it'd be nothing new.


Sure, they could have done that, I still think it would have looked worse than doing things they way they did.

Personally, I don't care either way. As far as I'm concerned, they should exploit the hell out of Benoit, make as much money as they can off of it and give (probably more than) the money that would have been due to Benoit to his remaining kids.

On the other hand, here's Lance Storm's take on the matter, since someone brings it up on his Q&As at least every six months:

    Originally posted by Lance Storm

    Q: Considering the saying, "time heals all wounds". Do you think the WWE is taking the right approach in ignoring and erasing Benoit’s accomplishments completely?

    A: I can’t believe this subject still comes up. I was a friend of Chris Benoit’s and I think WWE is absolutely right. Wrestling accomplishments are nothing compared to murdering your wife and child. As much as we all want to separate those two aspects of Benoit’s life, WWE can’t promote or market the work of a man who murdered 2 people.



    Originally posted by Lance Storm

    Q: In your last Q&A (dated 10/3/10), you stated you agreed with the way WWE has handled anything Benoit-related. While I agree it is in their best interest to disassociate themselves with Benoit in any way they see fit, how do you deal with the gaping holes in another wrestler's career where Benoit was a focal point to that man's story? Watching Chris Jericho's DVD set, there are times where it looked as if the subject of Benoit was very delicately tip-toed around, especially when it came to Jericho's time in Japan and his ascent up the WWE ladder in the early-2000's. With the news of an Orton DVD release in the works, his first World Title win won't be given the proper historical acknowledgment because he won the title from Benoit. In the Monday Night Wars series on WWE Classics OnDemand, it's getting close to the time in 1998 where Benoit was feuding with Booker T and Finlay over the TV Title and he only became a bigger TV presence as time went on. If you're WWE, do you feel there's a way to distance yourself away from Benoit without diminishing the work of other another man's career?

    A: Maybe I’m wrong in this but “Proper Historical Acknowledgment” seems to be a bit much to me, same with “Gaping Holes”. Certain things take a back seat to Multiple Murder and wrestling matches are one of them. Yeah it sucks that stuff has to be omitted and skipped but life isn’t perfect.

PaulKTF
Summer sausage








Since: 26.5.06

Since last post: 1179 days
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
    Originally posted by InVerse

    Personally, I don't care either way. As far as I'm concerned, they should exploit the hell out of Benoit, make as much money as they can off of it and give (probably more than) the money that would have been due to Benoit to his remaining kids.



Um, I think the shareholders would have a problem with the company they invested in exploiting the career of a child-murderer to make a buck even if that money went to Benoit's family.

Plus it would be a publicity nightmare.

Remember that the WWE is a publicly traded company and they have to account to the shareholders for all of their decisions and the results of those decisions.
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 50 days
Last activity: 8 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.60
    Originally posted by InVerse
      Originally posted by Lance Storm

      Q: In your last Q&A (dated 10/3/10), you stated you agreed with the way WWE has handled anything Benoit-related. While I agree it is in their best interest to disassociate themselves with Benoit in any way they see fit, how do you deal with the gaping holes in another wrestler's career where Benoit was a focal point to that man's story? Watching Chris Jericho's DVD set, there are times where it looked as if the subject of Benoit was very delicately tip-toed around, especially when it came to Jericho's time in Japan and his ascent up the WWE ladder in the early-2000's. With the news of an Orton DVD release in the works, his first World Title win won't be given the proper historical acknowledgment because he won the title from Benoit. In the Monday Night Wars series on WWE Classics OnDemand, it's getting close to the time in 1998 where Benoit was feuding with Booker T and Finlay over the TV Title and he only became a bigger TV presence as time went on. If you're WWE, do you feel there's a way to distance yourself away from Benoit without diminishing the work of other another man's career?

      A: Maybe I’m wrong in this but “Proper Historical Acknowledgment” seems to be a bit much to me, same with “Gaping Holes”. Certain things take a back seat to Multiple Murder and wrestling matches are one of them. Yeah it sucks that stuff has to be omitted and skipped but life isn’t perfect.




It seems to me that the crux of THIS particular problem is that Benoit's brain showed signed of deterioration due to trauma, which may or may not have occurred in these wrestling matches. Unlike, say, editing OJ Simpson out of Buffalo Bills' history, which is unnecessary because nobody directly attributes (yet) OJ's alleged (*cough*) crimes to his football-playing activities. It wouldn't make me feel good to put in a Jericho DVD and see Benoit do a flying headbutt, knowing how it all turned out.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 126 days
Last activity: 36 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.09
I agree with you on the "flying headbutt" thing, JayJay. I've watched the WrestleMania XX main event a handful of times since Benoit's death, because it still stands out as one of the greatest matches of all-time in my opinion. But besides the fact that it's impossible for me to replicate the emotional roller-coaster ride of watching it for the first time (and the jubilation I felt when Benoit won the title), I cringe whenever I see the flying headbutt, and that match is no exception.

God... do you think if he'd never done the flying headbutt a single time, he'd still be alive? That's a terrifying thing to think of.

    Originally posted by lotjx
    I think once Chavo got that cryptic text, they probably knew he killed them.


God, poor Chavo. He was the man who first saw his uncle Eddie when he passed away, and he got a cryptic test message that lets that kind of information out about one of his uncle's best friends. I don't know how close Chris and Chavo were, but in any evnet I can't imagine how emotionally traumatized Chavo must have been by those events.

That's one of several reasons why I get so infuriated when he's made to lose to Hornswoggle like twenty times in a row, and gets squashed by Kane in less than eight seconds at freakin' WrestleMania. (But it's not by any means the highest reason on that list).



"Justice has a name. And the name it has, besides 'justice', is Captain Hammer."
--The Mayor, Dr. Horrible's Sing-a-Long Blog

Fan of the Indianapolis Colts (Super Bowl XLI Champions), Indiana Pacers and Washington Nationals

Certified RFMC Member-- Ask To See My Credentials!

Co-Winner of Time's Person of the Year Award, 2006

Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 22 hours
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.30


I think Vince was actually asked about this, I think for some kind of magazine, and responded something to the effect of: "It's one thing to include him as part of a historical perspective, which I believe is okay, and it's another thing to promote him, which is not okay." And he compared it to OJ.

I really think editing him off PPVs and Monday Night Raws is kind of silly, and maybe they've been doing that but I haven't noticed on MNWars from 24/7. I know I've seen him in Horseman promos. Whatever I've seen of Benoit, somehow, I don't immediately think of those events. Maybe I'm desensitized. Maybe I feel redeemed by the conclusion that his brain damage made him "not criminally responsible". To be honest, I still find it harder to watch Eddie's stuff.



(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 17.12.10 2216)


Quiet, Or Papa Spank!
RYDER FAKIN
Six Degrees of Me








Since: 21.2.02
From: ORLANDO

Since last post: 42 days
Last activity: 42 days
AIM:  
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.17
Paul KTF: Um, I think the shareholders would have a problem with the company they invested in exploiting the career of a child-murderer to make a buck even if that money went to Benoit's family.

Plus it would be a publicity nightmare.

Remember that the WWE is a publicly traded company and they have to account to the shareholders for all of their decisions and the results of those decisions.


The shareholders have no control (i.e. - saying "I'm a shareholder I think this is offensive, listen to me") as the McMahon family has carte blanche to do what they want due to the voting privilege stock. By the way, I took more offense to the exploitation of Eddy than an allegedly mistimed "tribute" to a murderer

And also, the shock seemed to wear off of the "Crippler Crossface" around the 3rd time HBK used it

Sure - sell your stock. But I find that impossible when I'm bribed a huge dividend each quarter. As a matter of fact, it's quite easy to figure out when the stock is going to move from $14 to $16 or $17. But that's just easy pickings, kinda of like a cute little stock known as "SYMC". Timing

The Benoit murders did not affect the business. What's killing things is that can't make up their minds whether to make a feud serious, or just have a comedy variety show. But again, what they do doesn't have too much of an effect on the stock. Investors see a well divedend company that turns a profit each quarter - and kicks in the dividend to make sure the stock is not sold a bargain basement deal.

The only reason the stock went public re: IPO is that Vince 1) wanted to be legit and 2) needed a billion dollars. Their decision making leaves a lot to be desired, but it is consistent. I'm disappointed that they constantly squander money making opportunities that would make the investment more attractive, but that won't happen until Vince dies, or steps down.

WWE has seemed to take the WCW approach - give the shit away on a Monday night - screw the 100,000 left as suckers for buying the PPV. This may all change one we get WWE television, but only if the right deal is made. WWE could never come to terms with Time Warner / Brighthouse to show that classic channel, and it killed the idea

Regardless, WWE is a $13 to $17 stock to play with and enjoy the the bribe money that goes with it. I have that, but am not foolish enough to be offended or even dismayed that MY suggestions mean nothing. So I just take things as they are. Once Vince steps down and / or Johnny Ace takes a long walk off a short pier and keeps walking until his hat floats, WWE will keep chugging right along - fun stock, could better, but if you want to compare WWE stock vs. the crazed fluxes of the market, it's still a good investment

FLEA

(edited by RYDER FAKIN on 18.12.10 1402)

Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high








Due to not believing IN THE LAKERS, Frosty is walking around with $20 of my money!
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 49 min.
Last activity: 25 min.
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.60
I talked to a guy who played around with the stock market when WWE went public, he bought the stock and it split twice and he got out a few days later. They still sent him all the stock detail and the McMahons had 80 to 95% of all the stock with HBK, Big Bossman and other wrestlers. WWE stock even if Vince dies which I can see a huge sell off after that is announced, nothing will change. As long as Steph and Hunter are running the program, things will be kept the same expect for some PG-13 stuff. Vince will probably will his share of stock to the grand kids anyway. I also was more pissed about the way they turned Eddie's death into a way to get Rey and Orton over then just letting it go after a month.

dwaters
Lap cheong








Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 22 min.
Last activity: 22 min.
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.45
It's strange how Vickie has gone from poor Eddie's widow to just another heel WWE personality.

It's a good thing I guess.
PaulKTF
Summer sausage








Since: 26.5.06

Since last post: 1179 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
    Originally posted by dwaters
    It's strange how Vickie has gone from poor Eddie's widow to just another heel WWE personality.

    It's a good thing I guess.


Yeah; I think it's good for her, and to her credit she plays the annoying heel pretty damn well. I'm glad Vince is employing her.
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 2 hours
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.97
I would think there would be a time when Benoit matches are at least shown in context with what someone else was doing. It might not be anytime soon, but I can't see it not happening.

It's not like the NFL mentions OJ a whole lot these days anymore.

StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 18 days
Last activity: 18 days
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    I would think there would be a time when Benoit matches are at least shown in context with what someone else was doing. It might not be anytime soon, but I can't see it not happening.

    It's not like the NFL mentions OJ a whole lot these days anymore.



To the contrary: ESPN, the NFL, or whatever other relevant party freely mentions OJ whenever the topic of Heisman winners or all-time great running backs comes up. I've never watched a broadcast or read an article and thought OJ was conspicuous by his absence.

- StingArmy
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 3 min.
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    I would think there would be a time when Benoit matches are at least shown in context with what someone else was doing. It might not be anytime soon, but I can't see it not happening.


It's already happening. Benoit was on the Elimination Chamber DVD. The commentary is edited to take out basically everything said about Benoit except his name and what he's doing in the match though.
PaulKTF
Summer sausage








Since: 26.5.06

Since last post: 1179 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      I would think there would be a time when Benoit matches are at least shown in context with what someone else was doing. It might not be anytime soon, but I can't see it not happening.


    It's already happening. Benoit was on the Elimination Chamber DVD. The commentary is edited to take out basically everything said about Benoit except his name and what he's doing in the match though.


Wow- I'm surprised they're putting him on a DVD so soon (and yes, I think 4 years after is too soon); even with the edited commentary.
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 479 days
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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.92
So, going by Lance Storm's philosophy: GoodFellas should not have been made into a movie. The Naked Gun movies should be banned. Boardwalk Empire should not be broadcast by HBO. And, anything involving Stalin or Hitler should never be broadcast by the History Channel. And, Benoit allegedly murdered 3 people, not 2 since suicide is murder under another name.
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 126 days
Last activity: 36 days
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.09
I think that if Benoit had killed his wife and child and not committed suicide, there's a fairly decent chance that he would have been found "not guilty by reason of insanity" or "guilty but insane". With all the brain damage he had, as someone mentioned earlier, I can't imagine he could have been held criminally responsible.

(Would he have been let go from WWE and told never to return? Absolutely.)



"Justice has a name. And the name it has, besides 'justice', is Captain Hammer."
--The Mayor, Dr. Horrible's Sing-a-Long Blog

Fan of the Indianapolis Colts (Super Bowl XLI Champions), Indiana Pacers and Washington Nationals

Certified RFMC Member-- Ask To See My Credentials!

Co-Winner of Time's Person of the Year Award, 2006

PaulKTF
Summer sausage








Since: 26.5.06

Since last post: 1179 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    I think that if Benoit had killed his wife and child and not committed suicide, there's a fairly decent chance that he would have been found "not guilty by reason of insanity" or "guilty but insane". With all the brain damage he had, as someone mentioned earlier, I can't imagine he could have been held criminally responsible.

    (Would he have been let go from WWE and told never to return? Absolutely.)


If he hadn't killed himself; there wouldn't be a scan of his brain and he would've been sentanced to life in prison or death, so yeah I'd say he wouldn't have been working for the WWE ever again.

He was stable enough to plan out the murders and know that he would've been facing a severe punishment so I think he would've been held accountable for his actions.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 18 days
Last activity: 18 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43
This is all just rampant speculation and semi-educated guessing at this point. I'd imagine if he was actually crazy then a trained medical professional would have seen enough in him to order a psych evaluation. That could, on its own, be enough to support an insanity plea, or at the least it could have led to more thorough medical tests, including brain density scans, etc. (which as far as I know can be done even when the subject is living).

- StingArmy
PaulKTF
Summer sausage








Since: 26.5.06

Since last post: 1179 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
I hate to ask a morbid question but...

If he killed Nancy on Saturday, and Daniel on Sunday; what the hell did he do to keep Daniel occupied on Saturday so that he didn't find her? Did he hide Nancy's body? My god...
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