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21.10.14 0042
The W - Pro Wrestling - Push for sex
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Jonny_English
Mettwurst








Since: 18.3.04
From: Derby, UK

Since last post: 2850 days
Last activity: 2673 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.35
Without wanting anyone to open themselves to litigation, can anyone fill me in on the WWE 'push for sex' rumours/allegations?
Promote this thread!
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3259 days
Last activity: 3259 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
It's usually just bitter wrestlers throwing crap out there. Like The Road Warriors and some others would say that Shawn Michaels got away with so much that he must have had something going on sexually with Vince.

In the early 90's the WWF got accused by some ring boys of sexual misconduct from several WWF employees which led to the firing of Mel Phillips, Terry Garvin and Pat Patterson. However, Patterson was brought back as most people think he didn't do anything. Billy Graham was one of the people who said that he did but Graham has since said that he wasn't telling the truth and didn't know if Pat did anything.

Ever since then and especially with WWE being a public company, I doubt there's any "pushes for sex" going on.

Unless you're referring to something else?
XManiac24
Bauerwurst








Since: 2.3.04

Since last post: 3826 days
Last activity: 3818 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    It's usually just bitter wrestlers throwing crap out there. Like The Road Warriors and some others would say that Shawn Michaels got away with so much that he must have had something going on sexually with Vince.


Uh, I really don't think that is the case. I don't see how you could call The Road Warriors, one of (if not THE) highest drawing, most remembered, and all-around greatest tag teams of all-time could be saying what they are saying just because they are "bitter." What is there to be bitter about?

LoD had never seen anyone get the kind of treatment like Michaels did, not Hulk Hogan, not Steve Austin. And McMahon personally went into the locker room in regards to Austin and told everyone "This is my guy, mess with him and you mess with me." In terms of reputation, sure, the Warriors had the "We're better" attitude and could be pricks at times, but they were drawing money for everyone else. And outside of that, no body had a problem with them, they were doing their jobs. What was Michaels' excuse?

In the overall scheme of fans, both wrestling and non, a whole lot of people are going to remember and appreciate LoD than Shawn Michaels. And considering that the only people who ever defend Shawn Michaels are his Clique buddies, Vince's love of literally gay angles, and the idea that a wrestler operates best when he is "himself," (i.e Michaels is a male stripper), I wouldn't throw the idea that Michaels was the first real member of the VMKMA Club totally out the window.

Michaels helped to get rid of a lot of guys who could have been good in the WWE, and proved to be good with other promotions. If a lot of those guys were there today, I doubt Michaels would have made his "miraculous" comeback.

(edited by XManiac24 on 23.4.04 1232)

(edited by XManiac24 on 23.4.04 1246)

The Maniac: Hysterically enjoying the witty comebacks of Maddox-wannabes and the people who pathetically lick their insightful asses.
OMEGA
Lap cheong








Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 1939 days
Last activity: 1907 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.64
    Originally posted by XManiac24
      Originally posted by fuelinjected
      It's usually just bitter wrestlers throwing crap out there. Like The Road Warriors and some others would say that Shawn Michaels got away with so much that he must have had something going on sexually with Vince.


    Uh, I really don't think that is the case. I don't see how you could call The Road Warriors, one of (if not THE) highest drawing, most remembered, and all-around greatest tag teams of all-time could be saying what they are saying just because they are "bitter." What is there to be bitter about?



Wasn't it Road Warrior Animal that said in an interview a few months ago that WWE was stupid for not putting the Tag Titles on them when they had their match against Kane & RVD in May?



The answer to WWE's financial problems...

Never 'Wiener of the Day', and is actually quite bitter about it.
DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 43 days
Last activity: 1 day
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

    Originally posted by XManiac24
    And McMahon personally went into the locker room in regards to Austin and told everyone "This is my guy, mess with him and you mess with me."
HE DID?

When was this?!?!?!



You heard me, fella
I refuse to lose.
XManiac24
Bauerwurst








Since: 2.3.04

Since last post: 3826 days
Last activity: 3818 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
It was in a Shoot Interview. Forgive me that I cannot remember which one. I could probably scourge SmartMarks and see if I can find it.



I really get a kick out of the concept of "rating" and "ignoring." To think, I made someone so mad...haha..gets me everytime.
darkmatcher
Bockwurst








Since: 12.2.03
From: New York, USA

Since last post: 2674 days
Last activity: 1749 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.84
How many of us have urged to spread vicious lies about those we possess malice toward? Its unfortunately not limited to children. Its not at all IMpossible that Road Warriors were really just bitter, even though Shawn discussed Hawk on the Confidential tribute show and was supposedly friends right before Hawk's death. Interesting that.

"LoD had never seen anyone get the kind of treatment like Michaels did, not Hulk Hogan, not Steve Austin."

Hogan and Austin? Vince let them get away with so much that its not even funny. Also, Shawn has said in interviews that he's often had near scuffles with Vince due to disagreements. Getting away with some stuff doesn't mean he had a great relationship with him. Top guys often get away with things that well, lower-card guys don't. But of course, every top guy who doesn't draw loads of money(which means about 90% of them) should have a BAD relationship with the boss and shouldn't get away with ANYTHING.

"Michaels helped to get rid of a lot of guys who could have been good in the WWE, and proved to be good with other promotions."

Details, pleez.
"And considering that the only people who ever defend Shawn Michaels are his Clique buddies,"

But the list of wrestlers who bitch about him isn't that much or at all larger than of Hogan or some others. For example, I never saw Mick complain about him in his book(on the other hand, he wasn't much of a fan of IWC hero Flair).

"Vince's love of literally gay angles, and the idea that a wrestler operates best when he is "himself," (i.e Michaels is a male stripper),"

When did Michaels literally play a male stripper? He played an egomaniacal guy who flaunted his good looks..with the intention of angering male fans and wooing females. And seeing how he was actually good-looking and giftedly charismatic, it worked, homophobic reactions aside (the later stuff he did with Hunter in DX seemed like a satirical "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" play.) I don't see how he was any worse than than Rick Rude, The Model or Val Venis, however he was more successful. Btw, does that mean they, or Chuck and Billy or once actually homo-gimmicked Dustin Runnels were in the KMAC?

All this said, whether happily married man Shawn(or anyone) is actually a non-hetero, is none of our business. Whether he had relations with Vince..while ALSO NOT our business, cannot be proven anymore than it can. Why people are more interested in what wrestlers do behind the scenes than in front, I don't know. But reading a bunch of interviews from jaded wrestlers or reports from jaded columnists who may or may not have agendas against a guy, does not a viable subtitute for actually BEING THERE make.
Craigerson
Cotechino








Since: 4.8.03
From: Maryland

Since last post: 3055 days
Last activity: 3053 days
AIM:  
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.54
    Originally posted by XManiac24
    Vince's love of literally gay angles, and the idea that a wrestler operates best when he is "himself," (i.e Michaels is a male stripper)


Throwing out the first part of this quote, while I agree most guys really hit their stride once they are playing themselves but are you saying Vince is always in favor of workers having gimmicks where they are themselves? So Gangrel really was a vampire?


    Michaels helped to get rid of a lot of guys who could have been good in the WWE, and proved to be good with other promotions.


The money drawing power of Shane Douglas? I'm not losing sleep over Shawn driving Dean Douglas out of the WWF.
XManiac24
Bauerwurst








Since: 2.3.04

Since last post: 3826 days
Last activity: 3818 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
I believe I may need to clairfy some thoughts.

Gangrel may not be a "vampire," but did he not have the vampire teeth surgically put in? And secondly, didn't he play some sort of gothic/vampiric character on the indy scene and stil does to this day?

As far as Michaels goes, yes, he was a male stripper. I don't think it was a case of being a cocky good-looking guy. I think his pre-match dancing and post match stripping where he would either moon the crowd or tease the crowd that he was going to go full-frontal could back up that statement.

As far as Rick Rude went, HBK and Val Venis (especially) are just the poor evolutions of the character Rude perfected. Rick Rude WAS the guy who was good-looking and cocky and that was it, that's not Michaels. He was a ladies man, he had the occaisonal Warrior pulls his pants down to his butt, but he wasn't intentionally taking them off. Rick Rude was also a stand-up guy and well-liked by a lot of people. Plus he was from Minnesota...

As far as Michaels burying talent...While, you may not lose sleep over Douglas, I hope you realize that HHH is almost doing his exact same gimmick and has been for quite some time, now...so, I guess it does sort of draw...at least it did, cheap imitations never work.

And from HBK's very own contradicting lips "Shane Douglas was getting cheap heat by cursing and the girls and such. Whatever he had in ECW he didn't bring with him into the WWF. He stunk." Five minutes later. "I innovated the whole Attitude Era with the cursing and the girls and such."(2000 RF Video Shoot). Yea, Shane Douglas is a liar and he sucks.

Bam Bam (who was a pretty decent fan favorite in his first WWF run), Candido, Scorpio, and Douglas are guys who could have done well, but didn't get the chance. Jannetty, Jake The Snake, Bret, and Ole Anderson are a few of the guys who talk about how "Shawn Michaels was cool before he became Shawn Michaels" (Jake Roberts Shoot). But I guess we don't take their views seriously because the IWC doesn't like them.

I have made this argument before, but everyone still overlooks it. I am not trying to get people mad, but people have to be realistic when it comes to this guy. The whole "Every top guy played politics and held guys down." is so utterly, utterly lame and such a last resort of debate. If Flair (everyone's hero, check out NoDQ.com for his remarks on the IWC), Hogan, and Austin were holding people down...it's because they made substantial contributions to the sport and drew MONEY for EVERBODY ELSE (the whole point of wrestling). Michaels did not.

HBK, as far as moveset goes, is the best there probably ever was...even Shane Douglas admits that, and so will I. But that's where it ends for him. He is definitely not as great as everyone thinks he is and certainly not a legend, despite what Jim Ross squeals every week. Cult Legend?, no doubt, yes. Pro Wrestling Legend or Icon?...no way, in my view.



I really get a kick out of the concept of "rating" and "ignoring." To think, I made someone so mad...haha..gets me everytime.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1984 days
Last activity: 1918 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.57
So...he's not a pro-wrestling legend...despite being, by your own admission, one of the great in-ring competitors of all-time? If Hogan can buy his way into legend status solely through his now-deceased drawing power, then I'd say Shawn can have the same thanks to his outstanding performance in the OTHER major area of pro-wrestling excellence.

"Candido, Scorpio, and Douglas are guys who could have done well, but didn't get the chance."

Oho man yeah, like those guys the ~KLIQ~ "buried" called Mick Foley, Dwayne Johnson and Steve Williams. Boy, Shawn's sure lucky he managed to keep *those* guys from getting massive opportunities to prove themselves.

"I have made this argument before, but everyone still overlooks it."

And people have directed arguments at you before, and your favoured debate technique is overlook them. Besides, you're preaching to the fucking choir around here about Shawn's former backstage clout. Everyone pretty much accepts that he was a total asshole, but most draw the line at totally-fabricated accusations of sexual tete-a-tetes in return for-haha-wrestling pushes. You really think that, after returning from a court case that nearly destroyed him, Vinnie would go about building his house o' cards around a guy blowing him on the weekends? Jesus, the man built a multi-million dollar company, he's not a retard.



For Relaxing Times...Make It Suntory Time

CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 8 hours
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AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.07
    Originally posted by XManiac24
    I really get a kick out of the concept of "rating" and "ignoring." To think, I made someone so mad...haha..gets me everytime.
How do you feel about "banning?"



Kings16
to go!
CRZ
XManiac24
Bauerwurst








Since: 2.3.04

Since last post: 3826 days
Last activity: 3818 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    You really think that, after returning from a court case that nearly destroyed him, Vinnie would go about building his house o' cards around a guy blowing him on the weekends? Jesus, the man built a multi-million dollar company, he's not a retard.


No, dude, I am not saying Vince is a fool. I am one of the few people who says that Vince know's what he is doing. That is not to say that he makes the correct decision all the time, but he is no fool. And as far as Foley, Austin, Rock go...I had never heard anything about them being held down as well. And besides, as we all know, if something blows up like those three guys did, it can't be stopped.

As far as dead drawing goes, you cannot put HBK on the same level as a Hogan, Flair, or Austin. And if you had kept with my argument, I said he had a great moveset, nothing else (it takes a lot more to be a competitor). And if I am preaching to the "fucking choir" (you gots class, bub...), then why does everyone still look at him through rose-tinted glasses. It isn't a matter of his backstage stuff, it never was for me, I could care less about the Clique...it's the total package...I do not believe he is as good as everybody makes him out to be. When someone tells me wrong...I listen and I accept it if it is true...I don't overlook it, like you said. Everyone has an opinion, and all I have ever tried to state is fact. And again, I never meant to step on anyone's toes.

Besides, man, what's it matter? CRZ is pulling the plug on me anyway because I took away his nookie toy. And this post will probably be deleted with yet another zinging comment from the Long-Haired Lummox in consequence, so pass the word around. So, really, what's the point? I am sure everyone will be wetting their pants over that news.

You make a lot of good points OldSchool and I like(d) debating with you, as with a lot of people on here. So thanks to all the people who contributed to my threads, good or bad and went back and forth with me.

Oh well, see you in the funny pages.

(edited by XManiac24 on 24.4.04 1935)

(edited by XManiac24 on 24.4.04 1956)

I really get a kick out of the concept of "rating" and "ignoring." To think, I made someone so mad...haha..gets me everytime...especially the quick quips from those witty mods. Way to be lame, guys!!!
darkmatcher
Bockwurst








Since: 12.2.03
From: New York, USA

Since last post: 2674 days
Last activity: 1749 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.84
Ok, I don't know if you'll be back or not, but I feel I have to say this and maybe you'll read it. You don't think Shawn's a very good due to being limited to having a good moveset. Alright, but I don't think it's his solely his moveset that ever attracted most of his admirers, because that's not just all he's about. Anyone can have a moveset, but people appreciate him (the worker, not the person) for his moveset, bumping and selling, storytelling, charisma in and out of the ring and ability to draw audiences into his matches and captivate them like few others. He was able to pull great matches out of poor performers(Sid, Nash, Crush) and could hang with almost any style. And his paving the way for a style of wrestling in North American made him responsible for a generation of young followers..if that's not a legend I don't know what the hell is. I'm sorry you don't see all of that, and that may be why you have a hard time finding people who will agree with your deprecation of him. But people aren't just chosing to respect his work for the hell of it...they hate him as a person but as a wrestler Shawn Michaels is the real deal. He's the package and he's one of the best. Even those co-workers who hate him the most would and do agree, they've never bashed his work.
Jonny_English
Mettwurst








Since: 18.3.04
From: Derby, UK

Since last post: 2850 days
Last activity: 2673 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.35
So, to clarify my original question, the rumours were that HBK was blowing VKM in return for the strap...

Anyone else accused of this? Or, as someone stated previously is it just bitter guys throwing something random out of left field because Shawn was a prick backstage and may have had the boss' ear...?
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.54
(allegedly) "Wildfire" Tommy Rich got his one week NWA World Title from a blowjob.



Thank you for your irrelevant opinion.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 12 hours
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.11
I'd say Shawn is a legend but he's still overrated. If he was as sound in the ring as people say he is, he wouldn't have needed to mortgage his spine to have good matches. Say what you will about guys like Shawn Michaels and Kurt Angle, but if a guy like Flair can take half their bumps (or in the case of Hogan, a fifth of them) and be twice as over and draw more money than they must be knocked down the "legend" scale just a little bit, no? These two in particular, Shawn and Kurt, transition out of everything with a bump. That's why they nearly crippled themselves. They're sorta like Foley, only with talent. Foley another guy I have trouble considering a legend, because as good as his promos are, all of his matches revolve around large bumps that are unsafe to take.



I'd tell you to kiss my ass, but I don't want to get it infected.
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3259 days
Last activity: 3259 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    I'd say Shawn is a legend but he's still overrated. If he was as sound in the ring as people say he is, he wouldn't have needed to mortgage his spine to have good matches. Say what you will about guys like Shawn Michaels and Kurt Angle, but if a guy like Flair can take half their bumps (or in the case of Hogan, a fifth of them) and be twice as over and draw more money than they must be knocked down the "legend" scale just a little bit, no? These two in particular, Shawn and Kurt, transition out of everything with a bump. That's why they nearly crippled themselves. They're sorta like Foley, only with talent. Foley another guy I have trouble considering a legend, because as good as his promos are, all of his matches revolve around large bumps that are unsafe to take.


First, Ric Flair's the exception, not the rule. He should be crippled, yet he's surprisingly healthy. All of his contemporaries like Steamboat, Race, Windham, Funk, are all shot physically. So were Hennig and Rude.

Do you think for one second Shawn Michaels would have gotten a second look from Vince if he didn't bump his ass off for all the talentless slugs on the roster? The fact that Michaels abused his power when he got on top should not distort the fact that he HAD to sacrifice his health to get anywhere near the top of the card. He broke new ground for headliners and that, along with his work, earns him "Legend" status.

He seems to have done just fine now that he's not taking the huge bumps too so obviously he wasn't just big bumps. There's been hundreds of wrestlers who took tons of bumps, none of them as good as Shawn Michaels. And if you think Michaels transitions out of everything with a bump, you're not watching closely or you're just applying the Kurt Angle argument to him out of conveinence.

Sure Hogan's a bigger legend then Michaels. It doesn't negate what Michaels did. He wasn't blessed with the height and body of Hulk Hogan (who's crippled now too). He had to do it differently. Just like the biggest money maker in history, Steve Austin, had to do it differently. Just like Mick Foley had to do it differently.

And to say Foley is just unsafe bumps and no talent is missing the entire point. Go watch a New Jack match, a Vic Grimes match, a Jeff Hardy match, a RVD match, a Sabu or Sandman match, and you'll quickly appreciate the talent that Mick Foley has.

Yes, he took a lot of high impact (not high risk) bumps but the matches were tight, the psychology was better then most, and the bumps were memorable. Combine that with his mastering the art of the promo, breaking ground in the literary field, his aid in helping guys like Austin, Rock, HHH, draw money, and you have yourself a legend.

I'll agree that Kurt Angle is slightly overrated and doesn't have legend status but that's through little fault of his own. He came into the game about 10 years too late and with a laundry list of injuries from amateur wrestling. He wasn't a fan of pro-wrestling. He came in during a spotspotspotspot style and that's what he was taught. He mastered what he was taught. How people expect him to work like a Chris Benoit when he doesn't have a fraction of the ring experience of Chris Benoit always amazes me. It also speaks to how great of a job Angle has done in his short career that people even dare to expect that from him.
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 9 hours
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.24
Didn't Shawn fuck up his back by landing wrong on a casket?
I thought his back was alright up until that point?



*sigh* Why bother?
Jonny_English
Mettwurst








Since: 18.3.04
From: Derby, UK

Since last post: 2850 days
Last activity: 2673 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.63
His back had been fucked up since very early in his career. The bump on the casket was, if you'll pardon the pun, the straw that broke the camels back.
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3259 days
Last activity: 3259 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
    Originally posted by dMp
    Didn't Shawn fuck up his back by landing wrong on a casket?
    I thought his back was alright up until that point?


He was having back troubles for about a year or so but worked through them for the most part.

The casket bump was the big injury and he probably should have only been out about 6-8 months but he went ahead and worked the WrestleMania match against Austin and severely worsened his condition.

So he was forced with career ending surgery. Instead he tried to rehab it in alternative methods to avoid possibly career ending surgery. That didn't work so he ended up having the surgery.

Now he was ready to try and come back at WrestleMania 17 in Houston (2001) but he showed up to several meetings and events in "no condition to perform" and was sent home. This was pretty much rock bottom for him as Triple H was pissed cause he went out on a limb for Shawn and Shawn fucked it up.

Somewhere in the next year or so, Shawn found God and changed his ways. He got another chance (nWo) and suggested doing a match. He did the one at SummerSlam with Triple H with the idea of doing a rematch at WrestleMania but his back responded OK from the match. He started doing more but he did too much and that's why he didn't wrestle much between the Rumble and Mania.

Since then he's wrestled about 2-3 times per month, sometimes a little more. Apparently he goes through at least an hour of stretching before and after a match. He does all sorts of treatments during the rest of the week. He's learned to work around the back injury and through trial and error in those early matches knows what he can and can't do. So he can probably stay on this schedule of wrestling once a week for as long as he can avoid a wrong bump on that back.
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Given the storyline buildup, it definitely makes sense for a "Little Jimmy" to have thrown a drink in R-Truth's face, but aren't they walking a dangerous line on "encouraging" other fans to do the same?
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