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19.4.14 0929
The W - Pro Wrestling - Puro recommendations?
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drjayphd
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Since: 22.4.02
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#1 Posted on
Okay, I can feel myself turning into the stereotypical smark as I type this, but what the hell. Here's my question. I'm getting tired of the typical WWF product, and I'm looking for some puro. I've heard a lot about it, but I don't really know where to start.

I am a pretty big fan of the cruiserweight stuff I've seen from the WWF and WCW, if that helps. I also loved some of the better, more psychological matches from the aforementioned feds, as well as a little ECW-esque brawling.

So, with that in mind, can anyone recommend a good show to start with? I can only afford a one or two tape set right now, so saying "Best of Japan" isn't gonna help unless I can pick a couple of tapes from that instead of getting the whole set.
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eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
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#2 Posted on
All Japan vs. New Japan is cool. If you like cruiserwieghts, go with M-Pro or Toryumon. M-Pro "These Days" is often touted as one of the best shows out there, but I also like the "Sasuke & Me" tape. My favorite feds are Zipang, SPWC and Osaka Pro and FMW, though, but most puro aficianados don't seem to agree.



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Mild Mannered Madman
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Since: 1.3.02
From: Westminster, CA

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#3 Posted on
As usual somebody recommends this to a Puro newbie, so...

Super J Cup '94.

Two of the best matches of the decade
Jushin "Thunder" Lyger -v- The Great Sasuke
Wild Pegasus (Chris Benoit) -v- The Great Sasuke.

Names the U.S. fan is somewhat familiar with
The aforementioned Pegasus
Black Tiger (Eddy Guerrero)
Dean Malenko

As a tournament, its an easy event to follow.

The 95 J Cup, adding Jericho to the previous mix, is hardly a bad idea either.






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Since: 26.3.02
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#4 Posted on
When I first got into puroresu, I was heavily into the junior style, but now I've grown to appreciate other styles. For the newbie I would definitely recommend the J-cups 94 and 95, as previously stated.

You may not be ready for All Japan just yet, so the worst possible thing you could do is go out and buy a tape with "best of Misawa vs. Kawada" and watch it like a highlight reel. It will be as entertaining as hell, but you will only be getting about 10% of the enjoyment you can out of the matches.

It's really hard to get into AJ (my current favorite style) because there's really no jumping off point. So maybe one of those "best of 1993" AJ tapes would be a good place.

Another style is shoot-style, but there are a bunch of variations within that might be too tedious for me to explain in this one post. Battlarts is one, basic style, which is focused on building the match towards big suplexes and submissions. For more "realistic" fighting, there is RINGS.

Hopefully, this was somewhat helpful, but most likely came out rather jumbled. :P



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Trineo
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Since: 19.3.02
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#5 Posted on
I would say get nearly all of Mutoh's matches from last year (I noticed highspots has a comp out), it's not your typical Puro but in my opinion are some damn good matches. Also the December 2000 NOAH PPV is really good, as were all the All Japan vs. New Japan stuff (but I think somebody already mentioned that).



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eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
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#6 Posted on
I really don't like that fake shoot stuff. I've only seen some of the New Japan stuff, but it's awful. Is Battlearts that much better than those fake shoots that NJ did with Goodridge and others?



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Sean
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Since: 26.3.02
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#7 Posted on
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    I really don't like that fake shoot stuff. I've only seen some of the New Japan stuff, but it's awful. Is Battlearts that much better than those fake shoots that NJ did with Goodridge and others?


Battlarts:New Japan Fake Shoot stuff :: Chris Benoit:Giant Gonzalez

Also, to the guy above - if you watch clipped versions of the Mutoh matches they are good, but the psych and selling of the overall matches are just horrible.

(edited by Sean on 2.5.02 1245)
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eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
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#8 Posted on
I don't know about that. Coming from someone that is still a fan of WWF, and generally a fan of all wrestling, I think Muto still puts on consistently good matches. That tag match from last October or November, it was him and Hase vs. um . . . Nagata and someone? That's how good it was. Seriously, that was an amazing match. Hell, I even liked Mutoh vs. Scott Hall, which everybody else seemed to hate.



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Lexus
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Since: 2.1.02
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#9 Posted on
You know, this always seems to happen.

Not to knock Japanese wrestling, because it is good. It is fabulous, to be exact, it's clean, technical, and downright amazing to watch. My only gripe with it is that his has no soul. True, the WWF may be getting a wee bit tiresome as of late (Ever notice how on every board when you see that WWF RATINGS ARE LOW that somebody is looking for Japanese stuff). However, the WWF, and its fans for all accounts and purposes, has soul. Here's my point.

I'm not sure what year it was, but it was the Super J Cup held where Wild Pegasus (Benoit) beat Liger in the finals. I hadn't quite seen much poruresu up until then, so I was enthusiastic about watching the show. And the wrestling was just as I described it last paragraph. Benoit/Lyger was quite possibly better than any effort I've seen in the WWF since, speak of the devil, Benoit/Angle. Here's the scoop though.

Hell in a Cell from KotR '98. TLC. TLC 2. RVD vs. Jerry Lynn one through a billion. All of these are examples of fabulous wrestling seen here in the States, all of them ***** matches. It should also be noted that all of them have a very distinct feel that is almost contrary to any poruresu you may watch.

Now, Poruresu is performed like a simulated sport, if you will. Imagine the 49ers vs. the Rams, or the Yankees and the White Sox. The game will be fantastic, with a lot of emotion, possibly a little buildup, and athleticism to spare. It'd be a good game, to say the least.

Now, American wrestling is more like men going into personal conflicts and through heated battles to retain victory. Again, take the 49ers and the Rams, but now chalk them in as oppenents in the NFC championship game. Again, take the Yankees, but put them in the ALCS against Boston. Now you've got something to talk about, something with soul.

The only problem of late, however, is that instead of having Yankees/Red Sox or 49ers/Rams on our WWF programming, we get stuff like Marlins/Expos or Cardinals/Browns. Yeah, it might be good, but who would pay money to go watch the Expos play?

And with that note, after probably contradicting myself time and again, I bid adieu



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MoeGates
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Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#10 Posted on
I get your point, but I think a lot of "Japan having no soul" is due to the fact that the vast majority of American Puro fans don't speak Japanese and aren't going to be able to understand the commentary and promos. Add in the fact that there's some cultural differences between the two styles (and countries). I'd guess that Puro to a Japanese fan has as much "soul" as the WWF to the American fan.

Of course, not being Japanese or even a huge Puro fan I could very well be wrong. Any Japanese speaking Puro fans out there that could help us out?

Moe



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EastCoastAvenger
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Clearwater, FL

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#11 Posted on
Japan has no soul?! Are you freakin' kidding me?!

The biggest American wrestling angle of all time, the nWo, was a (not particularly well-done) knock-off of a Japanese angle.

Like Moe said, If you don't understand the language or culture, you're going to get jack shit from the angles end of puro, which is coo1, since most non-Japanese wrestling fans watch it for the kickass matches anyway.

I speak a little Japanese, (not enough to carry on a deep philosophical conversation or discuss the meaning of life, but just enough so the chicks find me kawaii!) and the angles, while not as soap-opera-rific as American angles are pretty cool sometimes, but they are more like older NWA stuff. Backstage interviews (I told you i'd whip his ass!), The occasional vignette (kinda rare), and the best part: 20 minute promos are few and far between! My only problem is that there arent enough anime references in puro. I'd bust a gut if Mutoh went all deadpan and told his opponent "Omae O Korosu" (I'm going to KILL you! - From "Gundam Wing").

THe soul is there, it's just in code! :-)



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Sean
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Since: 26.3.02
From: Mastic, NY

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#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by Lexus
    You know, this always seems to happen.

    Not to knock Japanese wrestling, because it is good. It is fabulous, to be exact, it's clean, technical, and downright amazing to watch. My only gripe with it is that his has no soul. True, the WWF may be getting a wee bit tiresome as of late (Ever notice how on every board when you see that WWF RATINGS ARE LOW that somebody is looking for Japanese stuff). However, the WWF, and its fans for all accounts and purposes, has soul. Here's my point.

    I'm not sure what year it was, but it was the Super J Cup held where Wild Pegasus (Benoit) beat Liger in the finals. I hadn't quite seen much poruresu up until then, so I was enthusiastic about watching the show. And the wrestling was just as I described it last paragraph. Benoit/Lyger was quite possibly better than any effort I've seen in the WWF since, speak of the devil, Benoit/Angle. Here's the scoop though.

    Hell in a Cell from KotR '98. TLC. TLC 2. RVD vs. Jerry Lynn one through a billion. All of these are examples of fabulous wrestling seen here in the States, all of them ***** matches. It should also be noted that all of them have a very distinct feel that is almost contrary to any poruresu you may watch.

    Now, Poruresu is performed like a simulated sport, if you will. Imagine the 49ers vs. the Rams, or the Yankees and the White Sox. The game will be fantastic, with a lot of emotion, possibly a little buildup, and athleticism to spare. It'd be a good game, to say the least.

    Now, American wrestling is more like men going into personal conflicts and through heated battles to retain victory. Again, take the 49ers and the Rams, but now chalk them in as oppenents in the NFC championship game. Again, take the Yankees, but put them in the ALCS against Boston. Now you've got something to talk about, something with soul.

    The only problem of late, however, is that instead of having Yankees/Red Sox or 49ers/Rams on our WWF programming, we get stuff like Marlins/Expos or Cardinals/Browns. Yeah, it might be good, but who would pay money to go watch the Expos play?

    And with that note, after probably contradicting myself time and again, I bid adieu



Where to begin, where to begin?

First, I'll say that there was never a Super J-Cup where Benoit beat Lyger in the finals, but our memories fade over time so I can forgive that one.

It seems the only example you cite is the final to a (non-existant) tournament match, and is thus not comparable in terms of "passion" or "soul" to the blowoff match to a feud.

There are puroresu matches that will match or blow away any US match you can find in terms of passion and crowd heat, because puroresu matches are not like "exhibitions." This impression can only have come from watching a very small amount of puroresu. Watch the Mitsuharu Misawa/Jumbo Tsuruta feud, or the Misawa/Kawada feud, Lyger/Sano, Lyger/Samurai, Chono/Mutoh, Sasuke/Kaientai, etc.

Really though, I have seen these feuds and I don't speak a lick of Japanese, yet they came across just incredibly.



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eviljonhunt81
Pepperoni








Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

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#13 Posted on
I think it's harder to get into a feud when just watching one match, though. Even in US matches, I can see how some old ECW matches would be much cooler if I knew and had watched everything that led up to it. That's just part of the problem when watching tapes. The guy who started the thread said he didn't have the money to buy a whole lot, so he has to expect that the background for a match wont mean as much to him, which does take away from the overall enjoyment. That's why I think he should start with a tournament (easy to understand, as each guy wants to win) or All Japan vs. New Japan (one company invading the other).



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Sean
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Since: 26.3.02
From: Mastic, NY

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#14 Posted on
I change my recommendation - buy the best of early Liger tape from Bob Barnett - it has his whole feud with Sano, plus a nifty match with Owen Hart, and lots of Hiroshi Hase and Nobuhiko Takada. What's not to love?



Giant Baba is a sexual icon.
Lexus
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

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#15 Posted on
While it's true the nWo was ripped off from Japan, could you please give me a play by play detailed story as to what the Japanese nWo did?

Maybe Japan has soul, maybe it doesn't. Do I understand any of the storylines? Does anybody who posts here know? I doubt it. We buy our tapes (I say we because I, in fact, actually am nuts about Kid Dragon) with no real backstory to what's going on. We watch for the pure wrestling matches, not for any storylines. Thus...

We buy soulless wrestling tapes.



While working security at a local indy show, I saw Ricky Morton's bare ass, and the next time I hear anybody out there say "playing Ricky Morton", the person they mention had best have a really nice ass.
Sean
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Since: 26.3.02
From: Mastic, NY

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#16 Posted on

    Originally posted by Lexus
    While it's true the nWo was ripped off from Japan, could you please give me a play by play detailed story as to what the Japanese nWo did?

    Maybe Japan has soul, maybe it doesn't. Do I understand any of the storylines? Does anybody who posts here know? I doubt it. We buy our tapes (I say we because I, in fact, actually am nuts about Kid Dragon) with no real backstory to what's going on. We watch for the pure wrestling matches, not for any storylines. Thus...

    We buy soulless wrestling tapes.



Here's the short version:

Riki Choshu worked for New Japan Pro Wrestling. One day, Riki got pissed off and decided to take him and a few of his buddies (Yoshiaki Yatsu, Animal Hamaguchi) and jump to All Japan Pro Wrestling.

The heat for Seikigun vs. Ishingun was insane, the hatred was unreal - it was essentially promotion vs. promotion, but without the consent of New Japan.

The rest is history.



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deadbeater
Morcilla








Since: 12.2.02
From: Parts unknown

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#17 Posted on
You know, as good as the Japanese men's wrestling is, the women's wrestling is light years ahead of anything else out there. The moves they do, the men will do a few years later.

The Hollywood Blondes finisher was inspired by the Jumping Bomb Angels.

The power bomb was introduced to women's wrestling first.

The women were the first to jump from the ring to the arena floor.

Just a few samples of the gifts to wrestling the unfair sex provided.

Weevil
Polska kielbasa








Since: 19.3.02
From: Ireland

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#18 Posted on
I really loved the joshie addiction tape that Dean Rasmussen put together. It had great matches, a lot of differant styles and they seemed more characterful than other stuff i've seen. Some sort of mixed tape like that would probably be a good idea anyway and maybe you could read up on the storylines before hand
Big John DUD!
Linguica








Since: 25.3.02

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#19 Posted on
Golden Boy tapes has a best of Japan 2001 6 tape set for 60 dollars. (It's the latest series of rants that SC**T K**T*
is doing for various sits and it's looks rather interesting.
BTW I know that particular canadian smark is not very well liked on this site hence the astriks)
Nate The Snake
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Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

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#20 Posted on

    Originally posted by deadbeater
    You know, as good as the Japanese men's wrestling is, the women's wrestling is light years ahead of anything else out there. The moves they do, the men will do a few years later.

    The Hollywood Blondes finisher was inspired by the Jumping Bomb Angels.

    The power bomb was introduced to women's wrestling first.

    The women were the first to jump from the ring to the arena floor.

    Just a few samples of the gifts to wrestling the unfair sex provided.




I'd thought that Lou Thesz was credited with the first (albeit somewhat accidental) power bomb. I know that they did the DVD first though.



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