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The W - Football - PSU Penalty Phase
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.27
http://www.cnn.com/​2012/​07/​23/​us/​pennsylvania-​penn-​state-​ncaa/​index.html?​hpt=hp_​t1

So, they get hit with a $60 million dollar fine that goes to sexual abuse charities. 4 Year Post-Season Ban. Ten scholarships gone gone now and five more for each year. All wins from 1998 gone.

I don't think its enough. The money will be there by Friday with the large pockets of their donors. 4 year ban for not going to the Insight Bowl, please. I assume that means the Big Ten Championship game which only started last year. If USC can get through with the loss of scholarships, so can Penn State with their rather shitty schedule.

The vacating of wins is usually meaningless. The games were played and we all saw them win. However, it is a giant kick in the balls to the Joe Pa legacy. Out of all the penalties, this seems the one to get to the source of the problem of this scandal. Joe Pa's ego in covering this up since 1998 due to his desire to be the leader of wins in the NCAA. I thought that was a nice touch.

I think they needed at least a two year TV ban, but I get the feeling the Big Ten Network saved it from that and probably the death penalty. The reason that this got out of control is due to the power of the football program. To destroy the culture, they needed to destroy the football progam. This does not and it feels more like a slap on the wrist. A friend of mine who is a Penn State fan said it best. "We are used to being 8-4, so now we will be 7-5, no big deal."

(edited by lotjx on 23.7.12 0859)


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Since: 8.10.03
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.71
    Originally posted by lotjx
    http://www.cnn.com/​​2012/​​07/​​23/​​us/​​pennsylvania-​​penn-​​state-​​ncaa/​​index.html?​​hpt=hp_​​t1

    So, they get hit with a $60 million dollar fine that goes to sexual abuse charities. 4 Year Post-Season Ban. Ten scholarships gone gone now and five more for each year. All wins from 1998 gone.

    I don't think its enough. The money will be there by Friday with the large pockets of their donors. 4 year ban for not going to the Insight Bowl, please. I assume that means the Big Ten Championship game which only started last year. If USC can get through with the loss of scholarships, so can Penn State with their rather shitty schedule.

    The vacating of wins is usually meaningless. The games were played and we all saw them win. However, it is a giant kick in the balls to the Joe Pa legacy. Out of all the penalties, this seems the one to get to the source of the problem of this scandal. Joe Pa's ego in covering this up since 1998 due to his desire to be the leader of wins in the NCAA. I thought that was a nice touch.

    I think they needed at least a two year TV ban, but I get the feeling the Big Ten Network saved it from that and probably the death penalty. The reason that this got out of control is due to the power of the football program. To destroy the culture, they needed to destroy the football progam. This does not and it feels more like a slap on the wrist. A friend of mine who is a Penn State fan said it best. "We are used to being 8-4, so now we will be 7-5, no big deal."

    (edited by lotjx on 23.7.12 0859)


All well and good but in this mix are the student athletes who didn't do anything wrong.



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Since: 5.9.02
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
The Big Ten has also ruled that PSU won't share in any bowl revenue for the next 4 years- with PSU's share also being donated to charity. PSU is also ineligible for the Big Ten title game for the next 4 seasons.

Money-wise, this is a big penalty to be sure, and the program DOES deserve to be punished, don't get me wrong, this is pretty much lack of institutional control defined, but, this penalty rubs me the wrong way. PSU is losing basically 10 more scholarships a year than USC did, and all this was done by setting aside the normal NCAA investigation process. They did do a good thing by saying that the players who want to leave can do so.

Everyone was saying yesterday "Unprecedented, unprecedented", and money-wise, it is. But, outside of the money, I don't know. I don't know what would have been the "correct" punishment, but this doesn't seem like it.



spf
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.94
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    All well and good but in this mix are the student athletes who didn't do anything wrong.

By this logic it is essentially impossible to ever punish a school for any infraction discovered through investigation.

Also, the student athletes are being given an out to go to any school with no loss of eligibility and start immediately, so the NCAA is doing something to ameliorate the punishment for the current players.





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Since: 20.6.02
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.54
    Originally posted by spf
    Also, the student athletes are being given an out to go to any school with no loss of eligibility and start immediately, so the NCAA is doing something to ameliorate the punishment for the current players.


That's all well and good, but the season starts in a month. I don't think I've ever seen a transfer process that lasts less than a month.

I'm happy to see that Penn State, at the very least, got hit harder than places like USC, whose infractions were pretty miniscule in comparison to this. So good to the NCAA, I guess. Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut.




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lotjx
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.27
Considering the tweets by the football players and alumni after this, no one should really shed a tear for them. If anything, death penalty seems more appropriate.



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spf
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.94
    Originally posted by It's False
      Originally posted by spf
      Also, the student athletes are being given an out to go to any school with no loss of eligibility and start immediately, so the NCAA is doing something to ameliorate the punishment for the current players.


    That's all well and good, but the season starts in a month. I don't think I've ever seen a transfer process that lasts less than a month.


Apparently the players are also being allowed to transfer without penalty after the season as well.



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Eddie Famous
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Since: 11.12.01
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.97

One of the reasons it was a four-year ban on the postseason was so they would not have to bend previous rulings on transfer of players.

If a student is in 4th grade this year, by the time he is a college freshman PSU will have regained the maximum number of college scholarships available for football.

The players will be allowed to transfer at any time, even to another conference school, without penalty. The conference had not allowed that in the past.

From ESPN: "The scholarship reductions mean that Penn State's roster will be capped at 65 scholarship players within a couple of seasons. The normal scholarship limit for major college football programs is 85. Playing with 20 fewer is crippling to a program that tries to compete at the highest level of the sport."

Basically, they have decimated the program. Saying anything else shows a very limited knowledge of how college football works.





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Since: 27.6.02
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.10
85 scholarship players on a college football team?

I hate sports.



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Since: 2.1.02

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.55
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    One of the reasons it was a four-year ban on the postseason was so they would not have to bend previous rulings on transfer of players.

    If a student is in 4th grade this year, by the time he is a college freshman PSU will have regained the maximum number of college scholarships available for football.

    The players will be allowed to transfer at any time, even to another conference school, without penalty. The conference had not allowed that in the past.

    From ESPN: "The scholarship reductions mean that Penn State's roster will be capped at 65 scholarship players within a couple of seasons. The normal scholarship limit for major college football programs is 85. Playing with 20 fewer is crippling to a program that tries to compete at the highest level of the sport."

    Basically, they have decimated the program. Saying anything else shows a very limited knowledge of how college football works.




I don't know. Two years into the USC sanctions, the Trojans just went 10-2 and finished No. 5 in the final AP poll. They probably would have won the Pac-12 had they been eligible. Penn State will lose 25 scholarships total, if I'm reading that right - 10 this upcoming year, and five more in each of the three remaining years of sanctions. Didn't USC lose about the same amount?

USC's bowl ban was shorter, so there's that. I personally think the taint of the Sandusky scandal will do far more to decimate the program than anything the NCAA handed down will.
TheOldMan
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Since: 13.2.03
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.69
I might have gone with a 5-year Bowl/B1G Championship ban, just so they can't even pitch recruits on "redshirt, help us rebuild and be a hero your 'Senior' year". But in addition to the scholarship reductions, it's going to be really, really hard to get any commitments for the first two years. For a program that sees itself on the upper echelon of college football, this is a big blow.

The $60 million should have been Penn State announcing this idea on their own, it's like a teeny bit of the punishment is letting the NCAA get the PR benefit of the idea.

While the NCAA has used the 'death penalty' on occasion (I read one about a school I never heard of and their tennis program), it will never happen to a major conference football team again. You have the TV deals to consider, and more importantly putting holes in the schedule for schools that have a Penn State game on tap.

I don't know that there's ever been a notable NCAA sanctioning where the coach hadn't already got out of dodge, and left innocent players and students and alumni fans in the lurch. In this case, I think there's just a little bit of responsibility for the Happy Valley community for allowing Joe Paterno to turn the campus into a virtual fiefdom. (And I'm still waiting for someone to start looking into those real estate deals) The Penn State community trusted in JoePa, they got burned.

And the video of students reacting as the penalties were announced this morning?

Totally #whitepeopleproblems



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Since: 2.1.02
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.23
    Originally posted by TheOldMan

    The $60 million should have been Penn State announcing this idea on their own, it's like a teeny bit of the punishment is letting the NCAA get the PR benefit of the idea.


They raised $208 million for this fiscal year. 2nd best year for donations. The $60 million will not hurt them at all.



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wmatistic
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Since: 2.2.04
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Originally posted by Eddie Famous
      One of the reasons it was a four-year ban on the postseason was so they would not have to bend previous rulings on transfer of players.

      If a student is in 4th grade this year, by the time he is a college freshman PSU will have regained the maximum number of college scholarships available for football.

      The players will be allowed to transfer at any time, even to another conference school, without penalty. The conference had not allowed that in the past.

      From ESPN: "The scholarship reductions mean that Penn State's roster will be capped at 65 scholarship players within a couple of seasons. The normal scholarship limit for major college football programs is 85. Playing with 20 fewer is crippling to a program that tries to compete at the highest level of the sport."

      Basically, they have decimated the program. Saying anything else shows a very limited knowledge of how college football works.




    I don't know. Two years into the USC sanctions, the Trojans just went 10-2 and finished No. 5 in the final AP poll. They probably would have won the Pac-12 had they been eligible. Penn State will lose 25 scholarships total, if I'm reading that right - 10 this upcoming year, and five more in each of the three remaining years of sanctions. Didn't USC lose about the same amount?

    USC's bowl ban was shorter, so there's that. I personally think the taint of the Sandusky scandal will do far more to decimate the program than anything the NCAA handed down will.


USC's appeal caused the scholarship reductions to not take effect until just this year I believe, so we haven't seen the impact and they had a couple years to stock up their roster to minimize it. Penn State's penalties start now and it doesn't look like they will appeal.

I still want someone to clarify the scholarship reductions though. They say they are capped at 65, I get that part. But I've also read they can only sign 15, instead of the normal 25 per year. Is that only this year, or is that 15 per year for the next four? Because the latter would be devastating. They'd end up with more walk-ons than scholarship players by the time the penalty was up.

Which they kinda deserve, so I'm good with it.
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.14
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    I still want someone to clarify the scholarship reductions though. They say they are capped at 65, I get that part. But I've also read they can only sign 15, instead of the normal 25 per year. Is that only this year, or is that 15 per year for the next four?


It's 15 per year through 2016, so in the BEST case scenario they could be at 65 with a few redshirts from this class and a full complement of 60 guys over four years.

The thing I read that is pretty good at summarizing the impact is that Penn State football won't have a full team of 85 guys based on four 25-man recruiting classes until *2020*.



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Since: 2.2.04
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.41
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by wmatistic
      I still want someone to clarify the scholarship reductions though. They say they are capped at 65, I get that part. But I've also read they can only sign 15, instead of the normal 25 per year. Is that only this year, or is that 15 per year for the next four?


    It's 15 per year through 2016, so in the BEST case scenario they could be at 65 with a few redshirts from this class and a full complement of 60 guys over four years.

    The thing I read that is pretty good at summarizing the impact is that Penn State football won't have a full team of 85 guys based on four 25-man recruiting classes until *2020*.


That's about what I was coming up with as well, just wanted to make sure so thanks for confirming. Basically this is the death penalty, only the NCAA didn't want to hurt other schools by forcing them to lose a game on the schedule or not be able to be on TV.

I'm okay with it.
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