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The W - Pro Wrestling - Post RAW Thoughts 2-May-2002 (Page 2)
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Stephanie
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Madison, WI

Since last post: 435 days
Last activity: 15 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.22
My thoughts?

* Allowing the Hardys significant offense on Brock Lesnar diminishes Brock's luster and does little for the Hardys.

* If your "brand" has to use the Hardys as a tag team twice in one night, it's a good indicator that you need to form more tag teams.

* I guess that Nash bleached his hair to get rid of the gray and make himself look younger. The only problem - he'll show his age the minute he tries to wrestle.

* Interesting angle with Brock Lesnar and Heyman - Heyman using the threat of Brock Lesnar Violence to try to snag himself a date.

* Flair/Austin = Vince/Austin Redux. I had higher hopes for Flair than this, but it looks like all he'll be is Vince McMahon (RAW Brand).

* I would love to see a Raven vs. Lawler PPV match for announcing rights on RAW. I'd love it further still if Lawler lost and took his dirty old man shtick with him.

* Music + wrestlers = instant crowd death. Especially when the singers are tone-deaf wrestlers. (It also marks the first time I've heard Billy Joel's "Shameless" sung in a karaoke bar.)

* Having transferred the Title to the Undertaker in less-than-clean fashion the night before, WWE then cranks out a Dusty Finish the next night to keep the belt on the Undertaker. WWE should pay attention to that cup of water that beaned Flair in the side of the head - if they keep booking like this, we'll eventually see trash-in-the-ring-fests that make WCW look clean by comparison.

Steph



I'm going twenty-four hours a day...I can't seem to stop
- "Turn Up The Radio", Autograph
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 41 days
Last activity: 8 days
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    "I can understand it. They put on a poor show with an ending that just left an awful taste in almost everyone's mouths. The Austin sketches dragged on forever. The NWO thing was met with apathy. And in the end instead of a glorious ascendance of a new star, we get the UT triumphant most likely leading towards a KOTR main event with one of the HHH's, or maybe even both. Gee, why that show didn't get 10's all around is beyond me."

    A show Eddie AND RVD being moved up the card, an interesting new twist being put on the nWo, and an Undertaker title reign that's ALREADY better than Hogan's. See how you can look at things from both a completely POSITIVE standpoint as opposed to your completely negative standpoint? Try being a fan for once. I've been away from the 'net for a while, and I have to tell you it's got a whole lot easier to enjoy the WWF/E product.



Being a fan? Or being a lemming? Personally, I have no desire to blindly support anything, be it Titan Sports, George Lucas, Major League Baseball or the government.





Then I can write a washing bill in Babylonic cuneiform,
And tell you every detail of Caractacus's uniform;
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.
Ike
Salami








Since: 14.2.02
From: Burlington, Ontario

Since last post: 4301 days
Last activity: 4286 days
ICQ:  
#23 Posted on
I don't think that was the suggestion. The point is (and I agree with it) that while this show wasn't perfect, it's at least a step in the right direction. There was a lot more right with the show than wrong.

The ending, while not popular, sets Flair up as a heel people can hate. Undertaker won the match, but it set him up as a somewhat precarious champion. RVD lost the match, but he looked damn good doing it and helped establish him as a main eventer.

If you want some good stories to be told, you can't have the set-up and payoff in the same night.



"Go for the eyes, Boo! GO FOR THE EYES! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!" - Minsc, Baldur's Gate.
evilwaldo
Lap cheong








Since: 7.2.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 3321 days
Last activity: 3102 days
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
The show felt like the PPV last night. It starts out strong and then just collapses at the end.

The writers have to learn about pacing and how to schedule matches on a card.





As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough.
Sean
Cotechino








Since: 26.3.02
From: Mastic, NY

Since last post: 4399 days
Last activity: 3488 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
#25 Posted on

    Originally posted by Ike
    I don't think that was the suggestion. The point is (and I agree with it) that while this show wasn't perfect, it's at least a step in the right direction. There was a lot more right with the show than wrong.

    The ending, while not popular, sets Flair up as a heel people can hate. Undertaker won the match, but it set him up as a somewhat precarious champion. RVD lost the match, but he looked damn good doing it and helped establish him as a main eventer.

    If you want some good stories to be told, you can't have the set-up and payoff in the same night.



Except, of course, these stories won't have any logical payoffs. The first clue that business was going down the shitter was the huge bungling of the HHH/Angle feud that simply didn't have a satisfying dramatic conclusion. Since then, angles aren't being blown off in proper fashion and story arcs lead to unsatisfying screwjob finishes.

Here's a clue for you: Undertaker will not do a clean job to RVD, even though the angle calls for it. Austin will not do a clean job for Eddy Guerrero, but their angle doesn't call for it.

Besides, this month's PPV has a Smackdown! challenger, so RVD will have to wait a month before doing yet another job to the Undertaker.



Giant Baba is a sexual icon.
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 41 days
Last activity: 8 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18

Has it necessarily been established as formula that the champion's defense goes: raw wrestler, sd wrestler, raw wrestler, sd wrestler?




Then I can write a washing bill in Babylonic cuneiform,
And tell you every detail of Caractacus's uniform;
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.
Divakind
Mettwurst








Since: 19.2.02
From: Charleston, WV

Since last post: 2409 days
Last activity: 2348 days
#27 Posted on
Will we be able to check out the Ross Report this week and find out that "RVD had a Slurpee with the Undisputed Title on Monday"? In the midst of my second markout moment of the night (the first courtesy of Raven), soon's I saw Flair grab the mic, I thought, "Aw, s**t, it's Jericho/HHH all over a-gain! We've been there, done that!"

Is it just me, or is there a creeping outbreak of "Dusty finishes" lately?

Hardys twice in one night? Dear Lord....do they make enough ipecac to suffer through that hell? And since I'm job hunting, I'm hereby offering my services to WWE as a heel announcer. Just for their matches though. (Someone get the seven-second delay button on standby!)

Who's the crack smoking idiot on the writing staff who thinks we're all so damn stupid we'll buy the sight of Eddy Gurerro, longneck in hand, down at the local bar when the man's trying his damndest to stay clean and sober?

I've already posted my thoughts on the whole Raven/Lawler thing in another section and I'm just too lazy to re-type it. Just say I was pleased & leave it at that.



"I'm overflowing with the juices of life!"

--Evan Dorkin/Welcome to Eltingville
billnopus
Haggis








Since: 3.1.02
From: From the Dark Side

Since last post: 1100 days
Last activity: 414 days
#28 Posted on
As soon as Hebner's Hand hit 3 in the Main Event, I knew
what was coming.

I was practically pleading for the Memphis Crowd to start
chanting "DUSTY" at Flair. Man, it's awful what they are
doing to him.





2002 rspw Quote of the Year: JR--"Lita's no Cheater"
Ike
Salami








Since: 14.2.02
From: Burlington, Ontario

Since last post: 4301 days
Last activity: 4286 days
ICQ:  
#29 Posted on

    Originally posted by Divakind
    Dear Lord....do they make enough ipecac to suffer through that hell?


ipecac? Is that a typo or something I've never heard of?



"Go for the eyes, Boo! GO FOR THE EYES! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!" - Minsc, Baldur's Gate.
Sean
Cotechino








Since: 26.3.02
From: Mastic, NY

Since last post: 4399 days
Last activity: 3488 days
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ICQ:  
#30 Posted on

    Originally posted by Ike

      Originally posted by Divakind
      Dear Lord....do they make enough ipecac to suffer through that hell?


    ipecac? Is that a typo or something I've never heard of?



Ipecac is a chemical used to induce vomiting.



Giant Baba is a sexual icon.
Spiraling_Shape
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 15 hours
Last activity: 10 hours
#31 Posted on
f you look at the reader reaction on the Torch it's ALL negative.

But Torch feedback is *always* negative.

Has it necessarily been established as formula that the champion's defense goes: raw wrestler, sd wrestler, raw wrestler, sd wrestler?

Yes, right after the split, it was said that the PPV title shots would alternate like that. Hence the Austin/Taker #1 contender`s match at Backlash.



"Why don't you say 'what' if you like to sleep with your own sister." - The Undertaker
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 41 days
Last activity: 8 days
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18

    Originally posted by Sean

      Originally posted by Ike

        Originally posted by Divakind
        Dear Lord....do they make enough ipecac to suffer through that hell?


      ipecac? Is that a typo or something I've never heard of?



    Ipecac is a chemical used to induce vomiting.



One of the best bits ever on the late,lamented Mystery Science Theater was when Joel and the bots came up with their own ipecacs. "blue cheese dressing and circus peanuts."



Then I can write a washing bill in Babylonic cuneiform,
And tell you every detail of Caractacus's uniform;
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.
BDC
Chourico








Since: 26.1.02
From: Falls Church, VA

Since last post: 4379 days
Last activity: 3836 days
AIM:  
#33 Posted on

    Originally posted by Divakind
    Who's the crack smoking idiot on the writing staff who thinks we're all so damn stupid we'll buy the sight of Eddy Gurerro, longneck in hand, down at the local bar when the man's trying his damndest to stay clean and sober?


I'll tell you who the idiot is if you can tell me that the majority of wrestling fans have any idea at all that Eddy Guerrero has a history of problems with sobriety.



It's a miracle!
Leroy
Andouille








Since: 7.2.02
From: Huntington, NY

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#34 Posted on
You know, it just feels like with some of you people its "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

For weeks everyone has bitched about Hogan-Undertaker and all of the other piss-poor angles we have had over the course of the last few weeks. And rightfully so...

Then RAW finally shakes up the card, introduces some relatively new feuds and makes the show at least some what better than the crap that's been offered over the last two weeks. And some of you STILL aren't happy.

Was it the best show of all time? No. But Jesus, let's give it - oh, I don't know - at least another week before claiming that all of the new angles suck.

Why some of you even bother to watch is beyond me....



"It's hard to be a prophet and still make a profit."
- Da Bush Babees
Enojado Viento
Potato korv








Since: 12.3.02
From: Your Grocer's Freezer, NC

Since last post: 635 days
Last activity: 53 days
#35 Posted on
Well, despite the fact that this show was excruciatingly padded and fell apart in the second hour, there were things I liked about this outing.

-Taker asserting his authority. For God's sakes, I had been waiting for this promo. The world champ SHOULD be the center of the show and he got himself over as an asshole fairly well. RVD didn't do too bad either, despite how I felt about the finish of the main event match.

-Austin/Guerrero, well "you think this feud is about. . .KARAOKE?" I'm hoping once we get to the ring with this Austin will step up his game like he did during the 3-way feud with Benoit and Jericho. I'm willing to endure a terrible setup to an angle (and this one was terrible and mostly inaudible)if we get a solid match or three out of it.

-The nWo. It's kind of a win-win situation. If Nash gets his way and the nWo is a threat again (erm, how I'm rather blanking on) then fine. Maybe WWE-WEE will get some of their money back. If they don't, well we get the continuation of the "B-Team" stuff that used to be on ScoopThis.

-JR's "Dragnet" reference. Thank God TWO people saw the movie.

There. Four good things, although I'm kinda reaching on #4.




-LS
"I fight alone, but at least I'm gonna die."
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 112 days
Last activity: 112 days
#36 Posted on
Why is everybody screaming about last night's finish? It's been done before. So what. Hell, Mick Foley did it to Benoit twice when he had beaten the Rock. So why scream Jericho? If anything was bad about RAW, it was everything that didn't happen in the stadium. God that sucked. It made last night almost unbearable. But I loved the title match, and I loved Flair restarting the match because I would've absolutely hated a 1 night title reign for the belt.

-Jag

Maybe it should've been a non-title match, and they should've let RVD go over cleanly.

/edit Or maybe everybody should've assumed it was a Title match, and then RVD wins, and Flair came out and said "I'm sorry, you were all misinformed. That was NOT a WWE Title match, so give that damn belt back to Taker." And then Taker beats down RVD while he's arguing with Flair.

(edited by Jaguar on 21.5.02 1526)
"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter." "Hate, who do I hate? You tell me." "Who do you love?" -Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
Enojado Viento
Potato korv








Since: 12.3.02
From: Your Grocer's Freezer, NC

Since last post: 635 days
Last activity: 53 days
#37 Posted on

    Originally posted by Jaguar
    Why is everybody screaming about last night's finish? It's been done before. So what. Hell, Mick Foley did it to Benoit twice when he had beaten the Rock. So why scream Jericho? If anything was bad about RAW, it was everything that didn't happen in the stadium. God that sucked. It made last night almost unbearable. But I loved the title match, and I loved Flair restarting the match because I would've absolutely hated a 1 night title reign for the belt.

    -Jag

    Maybe it should've been a non-title match, and they should've let RVD go over cleanly.

    /edit Or maybe everybody should've assumed it was a Title match, and then RVD wins, and Flair came out and said "I'm sorry, you were all misinformed. That was NOT a WWE Title match, so give that damn belt back to Taker." And then Taker beats down RVD while he's arguing with Flair.

    (edited by Jaguar on 21.5.02 1526)



Well, in all honesty I hate that finish every time its used, whether it's with Benoit/Rock, HHH/Jericho, and everybody. It seems like a tease and it betrays a general sloppiness in logic. "1-2-Johnny Ace," (thanks to CRZ) is a false finish, "RVD wins--no, wait, no he doesn't" is fingerfucking the audience.

I agree with you about the idea of a non-title main event with RVD going over, however. Don't know WHY a grudge match main event seems to be a dirty word now.



-LS
"I fight alone, but at least I'm gonna die."
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 85 days
Last activity: 8 days
#38 Posted on
On the "hardcore fan" thread, I stated that I only want to be entertained, I don't particularly care by who or how. This is a good example of that, I thought last night's show was pretty piss poor, worse than the last few. Those who liked the show seem to because Eddy and RVD got to interact with the big main eventers. They care about who is getting the pushes. What I care about is that the Eddy/Stone Cold segments were long, and big piles of steaming 100% Wrestlecrap. Not entertaining at all. What I care about is that RVD/Undertaker was the main event, and only got 4 minutes. They showed a few weeks ago that they can put together a good match if you give them 8 minutes or so. And while last nights match wasn't bad for 4 minutes, there is just only so much you can do in 4 minutes, and it felt rushed.

I'm not a guy who thinks the show should go wall-to-wall wrestling. Even if I was, I know that's not happening anyway. But is it too much to ask to have 8 minutes for a main event? That's not that long of a match. And is it too much to ask for the writers to do a little quality control on their sketches? You know, honestly evaluate the material, and how much you have. If it turns out you really only have one good segment's worth, just cut the others and ask the WRESTLERS to go a minute or two longer to fill in the time. You know, wrestling is probably what WRESTLERS do best, not improving crappy material as actors or comedians.

I don't care what they do as long as it entertains. Quite frankly, most of the sketches sucked. So that leaves wrestling, and there was not enough of it to be too awfully entertaining. Therefore, I have to give the show a thumbs down. There's a need of better sketches, or better and longer matches, I don't care which.
Jackson
Sujuk








Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 1903 days
Last activity: 1429 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.10
I knew from the moment Taker busted open RVD hardway (what comes around goes around Rob) that it was gonna be a good show. Now before you think I am just marking our for our new champ Cartman Taker (respect my authority!) let me tell you what else I liked.

1. NWO B-team. I was having flashbacks.
2. Goldust-Booker T. Maybe next week Goldust will come out dressed as Darth Vader and tells Book to come back to the Gold Side.
3. Austin. Getting Austin out of the ring and doing skits for a while is exactly what he needs. Anything to stop him from cutting promos that involve him saying the same thing 10 different ways to get 10 whats. It's gotten old. It's tired. I said it's gotten stale. No one wants to hear it. It's pathetic.
4. Raven. I thought that The Kat was going to come out and blow him right in front of Jerry. I was totally marking out until I remembered where they were.
5. Arn and Flair. Just the image of Arn on the stick with Flair standing behind him just smiling was old school at its best.

Overall the show just had a completely different feel to it. If I had to guess I would say Paul E. has got the book. Great show. Reader feedback to the torch was all negative? More proof it was a great show.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. UNDERTAKER IS AWESOME!




Bubbles? Oh come on Sharon! I’m Ozzy Osbourne the Prince of Fucking Darkness. Evil, evil, more fucking evil not a boatload of fucking bubbles man.
Bernard LĂ©Doush
Chaurice








Since: 16.5.02
From: L.A.

Since last post: 4451 days
Last activity: 4451 days
#40 Posted on
I think the WWE did do some things right last night like RVD getting a boost,and I guess the Lesnar / Bubba thing.But...to go as far as saying the WWE is back and on track is nuts!

How fucking horrible was the bar scene?Come on, they just bench Austin from the ring so a few min. later they can build a feud with Eddie?huh?

O.K. Kevin Nash was serious tonight so the NWO is going places...right

The Hardy Boyz wrestle twice and get nothing out of it.They should have put the Can-Am Connection out there at this rate.

Austin stuns Flair?Austin stuns Anderson and drinks beer..Fresh!

Tommy Dreamer.hhhhhh

Raven's cutting on Lawler was great though. How much fun must that have been for him to say all that stuff?

Im not in the boat with everyone saying shit like it was the worst Raw, but it wasnt that great either.

I do think that getting some fresh writing or motivating the writers would work wonders though.

(edited by Bernard LéDoush on 21.5.02 0629)
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Well, shit, man, yeah, we're talking about TNA. I could end every single paragraph in my post above with "but whatever, these losers are still in TNA, so who cares?" I mean, what's your point? --K
- Karlos the Jackal, TNA Destination-X Results / Discussion (2007)
Related threads: RAW/May 13th (Spoilers Inside). - RAW roster thinning... - WWE RAW #1 thread - More...
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