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21.8.14 1106
The W - Pro Wrestling - [Poll] You and what you think about today's WWF
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Qubber
Boerewors








Since: 7.1.02
From: Sheffield, UK

Since last post: 2687 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
I'm curious about who we are around here, and whether there is an age/experience split in those posters who are happy with the sports entertainment based WWF and those who are after a more wrestling based product.

How old are you? How long have you been watching wrestling? What do you think of the WWF right now (pick one word to summarise your general feeling then briefly expand your sentiment)? Are you anticipating WrestleMania with as much feeling as you have done in previous years?

I'll start the ball rolling:

I'm 24, and I've watched wrestling for over 15 years. My one word is "frustrated". I'm frustrated with the WWF right now because they have the greatest talent roster in living memory but they can't seem to put on consistently good TV. I still think the brilliance is there though, most recently shown during the Angle-Kane match on last weeks Smackdown, which for me was the right mix of "wrestling" with a "sports entertainment" angle on top (I figure putting someone through a table isn't exactly old school ). I'm looking forwards to WrestleMania because it's usually my favourite card of the year and I think Rock-Hogan, Y2J-HHH and Taker-Flair could be either good or at least entertaining and I could happily mark out for those matches. However, I'm not anticipating this years event as much as I have in previous years but I'll still probably sit there with a big shit eating grin on my face for the duration because, well, it's WrestleMania.



"Nobody enjoys a good time more than I do, but this business of yours is as legitimate as a three-legged donkey...which of course is illegitimate because as we all know donkeys have four legs."

Lance Storm, 21st January 2002.
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Yun
Salami








Since: 2.1.02
From: Just outside Dudleyville

Since last post: 3183 days
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#2 Posted on
I can't believe nobody's responded...

I'm 24, I was a good little Hulkamaniac during my younger years but I've only been watching seriously since late '99. My one word is "excited" cause I don't see how the product can get any worse. I don't mean that in the sense of "it's the worst it could possibly be" but in the sense of "I really don't see how they can screw this up." I've always prided myself on my markishness,

-I like sports entertainment
-I like high flyers
-I hate unbeatable monsters
-I'm not a mark for big men, but I do think they're underrated
-I never understood either what the marks saw in Rock or Austin or what the smarks saw in Angle or Benoit
-I think if a guy puts asses in the seats (IE Hogan) then he deserves to be in the main event whether I like him or not.

I better stop now before this turns into a bad rip-off of "I am a Bad American." Just let it be said that the present is good and I think the future will be great.



Everything's cool when you're Yun [point] Cheol [point] Su [point]
Sec19Row53
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Oconomowoc, WI

Since last post: 20 days
Last activity: 22 hours
Y!:
#3 Posted on
I'm 37 years old. I've been a wrestling fan since I was 7 or so, cutting my teeth on the AWA. I was first introduced to the NWA in 1980 via cable (WTBS, of course). Only later, around 1982, did we get WOR, and therefore the WWWF.

One word for right now - uh-oh! It seems that the WWF is re-running the last few years of WCW, and that ain't good. I don't feel the need to expound on that, it seems obvious.

Wrestlemania has never been the big deal to me because I don't order PPVs, so it's just one more time I'll read about it the day after/late that night. I have a feeling that the show could really suck, however, as the main events seem to be too old to be any good. Yes, they may rock the house with pops, but I don't see the stories having any legs to last.



[It's where I sit]
MarchOfThePigs
Salami








Since: 10.2.02
From: Sudbury, Ontario

Since last post: 4413 days
Last activity: 4344 days
ICQ:  
#4 Posted on
I'm 20 years old and have been watching wrestling since I was 7 or 8 years old.

One word to describe the wwf right now would be "awesome". I can't remember the last time I watched a WWF show and thought that it was so bad that I had wasted the past 2 or 3 hours watching it. And until the day comes that I feel like watching the show has become a chore instead of a pleasureable experience, it will remain awesome in my opinion.

I don't think it's possible to not anticipate this year's wrestlemania with as much anticipation as previous years. Rock Vs. Hogan. Who would have ever dreamed that would happen, and now we get to see it in 3 weeks. The past vs. the future. I can't wait.



Prying open my third eye.
bash91
Merguez








Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

Since last post: 736 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#5 Posted on
I'm 32 and I have been watching wrestling since (deep breath) 1974. (As an aside, why does that sentence sound like the beginning of a twelve step program?) Except for a three year stretch, 1992-1994, when I lived a life of spartan simplicity with no tv, no car, and no money, I've been hooked.

The word I prefer to use right now when discussing the WWF is questionable. I really wonder about the booking and the direction of the company. However, I still watch their television religiously and get the ppv's. I think I have missed 3 ppv's in the past 4 years and have been incredibly lucky in that the ones I have missed have been the bad ones like the infamous "Kennel in a Cell."

Wrestlemania has me really stoked because I will be there with the wife and two of our best friends from Bloomington. The card looks good from an entertainment standpoint, although the match quality may be less than stellar. Now I can only pray that they don't screw it up by adding some huge SNAFU match just so everyone can get their Wrestlemania payout or by putting the single most overrated man in wrestling today, Booker T, on the card. We will be more than happy if his presence is not felt. Nevertheless, even if he is there, I will still be marking out like I was 6 and watching Bobo Brazil battle Dick the Bruiser every Saturday morning.

Tim -- still thinking about that new sig and preparing to be flamed by all the Booker marks out there.



A wife with a copy of CIV III and her third different bar exam in as many years is a bad combination.
"Verhoeven's _Starship Troopers_: Based on the back cover of the book by Robert Heinlein."
Nykk
Longanisa








Since: 26.1.02
From: Ohio

Since last post: 3905 days
Last activity: 3300 days
#6 Posted on
I'm 20 years old and I'm an alcoholic... no wait, I'm thinking of someone else.
I've been watching the wrestling since 1991, when I was about nine years old (subsequently, all my Ninja Turtles figures became wrestling figures a short while later). A friend introduced me to the WWF, so it's always been my favorite promotion.

My one word for right now is "bored." I'm not really the typical smark because I cared about match quality way before I first got on the Internet in 1997, but it had always been secondary to entertainment in my mind. So with that in mind, imagine coming off the year 2000, which may have been the best year in terms of quality storylines, entertainment and wrestling in the WWF than any other year up to that point to the Alliance crap after WrestleMania last year and continuing the downslide to the present day. One problem I see is that the hierarchy is not moving, either in the midcard or in the main event level. Kurt Angle and Triple H can wrestle five star matches every week for the next six months, but eventually even that would get boring. New people need to be switched in and out of these roles so that there is some variety (and no, the nWo does NOT count as fresh faces). Triple H/Angle? Seen it. Austin/Angle? Seen it. Austin/Triple H? Seen it. Austin/Rock? Seen it. Undertaker/Austin? Seen it. I think you get the point. Give me some match ups and feuds I haven't seen before.

As for WrestleMania, I think my lack of enthusiasm this year has more to do with real-life stuff like the fact that two of my closest friends will not be able to make it home to see it. I have a friend who gets the PPVs at his house every month, but WrestleMania is usually the one that all of us go to. Last year my friends drove two hours to pick me up from school just so I could be there, so that factor will be missing this year. Then again I wasn't actually too thrilled with the WrestleMania CARD last year, and the actual event ended up being one of the best of all time.
Saruman
Salami








Since: 25.1.02
From: Kirksville, MO

Since last post: 4392 days
Last activity: 4362 days
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#7 Posted on
Okay, then...
22. Watching since '90, caught a Flair/Sting match at my cousin's house...been a fan of wCw/nWa since. Actually like watching the WRESTLING in a program, which is why I'm not all too thrilled with the current progressions. Honestly, I would rather see a storyline like what Perfect was trying to do last night, with a "You screwed me at the Rumble (or whatever event) so I'm gonna get even." Put the emphasis back on the ring. You know, it's the World WRESTLING Federation, not the world sportz entertainment federation. I never watched much wwF outside of 96-97 and the last year or so. But I did watch the end of wCw last year, and they put together good, ring based feuds. The Steiner injury bit was great, kinda like what they should have done with Vader back in 94. Of course, they screwed that up.
Anyway, I would have liked to have been booking wCw with the talent they had in 92-94, they didn't need Hogan, he's what fucked them up for good.
Wow, this is my longest post, by far.
Anyway, I want to see wrestlers tell a story in the ring as much as with their mouths and (usually) stupid backstage skits.
Oh, please, don't get me confused with a Keith-esque workrate freak who believes the only good wrestling has ever come from Japan. I just appreciate it if the matches are used less as filler and more as content.



Insert clever comment.
Qubber
Boerewors








Since: 7.1.02
From: Sheffield, UK

Since last post: 2687 days
Last activity: 1950 days
AIM:  
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
This is great guys, thanks.

A plea to all lurkers/jobbers/fans of sports entertainment: come on in and throw your two cents in! This is one of those "everyone makes a single statement" type threads, you won't get flamed or argued against (hopefully) as it is just a "your opinion" thing. This is purely me asking for personal interest so I can work up some stats for my own (sad) amusement.



"Nobody enjoys a good time more than I do, but this business of yours is as legitimate as a three-legged donkey...which of course is illegitimate because as we all know donkeys have four legs."

Lance Storm, 21st January 2002.
Ffej
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.02
From: Flatwoods, KY

Since last post: 2259 days
Last activity: 569 days
Y!:
#9 Posted on
I am 24 years old and staring watching wrestling when I was 4 or 5. My Uncle used to be a pro wrestler in the early 60's (he was never famous or anything and mainly wrestled in the Ohio Valley territory)and he watched wrestling all the time and he got me hooked.

I consider myself to be a sports entertainment mark. While I enjoy a good wrestling match, I also love a good promo. Thats why I am one of the few in smarky world that likes the Rock so much.

As for the WWF right now, I think its "on the verge." There are moments of brilliance and moments of "What the hell are they thinking?" There mid card is clusterf&ck right now and there SO much talent being under used or not used at all. But at the top there are things I never thought I would see with Rock/Hogan, Austin/Hall. Those are fantasy matchups that I am excited to see. The HHH/Jericho feud is hot as well.

I am excited for WrestleMania because Hogan/Rock, Austin/Hall, and Jericho/HHH. Those three matches earn my $40 alone. I hope Hogan can hold his own in the ring and we all know how good Scott Hall CAn wrestle. I hope they all give it their all out there and if they do it should be one heck of a show.



If I lived back in the wild west days, instead of carrying a six-gun in my holster, I'd carry a soldering iron. That way, if some smart-aleck cowboy said something like "Hey, look. He's carrying a soldering iron!" and started laughing, and everybody else started laughing, I could just say, "That's right, it's a soldering iron. The soldering iron of justice." Then everybody would get real quiet and ashamed, because they had made fun of the soldering iron of justice, and I could probably hit them up for a free drink.
WTF13
Boerewors








Since: 22.1.02

Since last post: 4397 days
Last activity: 4397 days
#10 Posted on
I'm 29 years old and have been watching since I was 12, but didn't watch regularly from 1988-1992 or so due to lack of cable television. I grew up on Mid-South and NWA broadcasts. I didn't like the WWF when I was growing up, though I would watch it because I thought Piper was cool. WWF was only on one hour a week as opposed to four hours of NWA and two of Mid-South, so the Fed didn't influence my wreestling tastes very much--it seemed second rate compared to the other promotions I was watching, and Ric Flair seemed infinitely cooler than Hogan.
I think early on, I realized that the heels were the ones worth my attention, though if my favorite heels turned face I would continue to like them.

These days I pretty much like wrestling and sports entertainment equally, and I think the entertainment aspect is just as important as in-ring skill. If someone is a great wrestler but can't make people care about what they're doing, they don't deserve main event status. That being said, I still prefer when angles play out in the ring as opposed to in backstage skits, and appreciate consistency and logic during the matches.

My word to describe how I feel about the WWF: Pessimistic. Although I think the NWO is being handled properly, I don't think it's something the WWF can have continued success with over 2002. I'm wanting to see some new ideas and some new talent and am hoping a roster split will have something to offer other than variations on Austin vs. HHH vs. Angle vs. Rock. I took a sabbatical from watching wrestling during the Invasion angle, and am definitely not afraid to do so again if WWF heads in the wrong direction.



"No one has a beer party at Scott Hall's expense!"
tricknee
Tocino








Since: 14.1.02
From: Oceanside, CA

Since last post: 4041 days
Last activity: 2380 days
#11 Posted on
I'm 27 and I've been watching wrestling since I was 7.

The worst/best thing I did to my hobby was start reading and participating in internet wrestling discussion around 1998. It changed the way I see the sport. It detracted from my enjoyment of the product, but gave me a new form of enjoyment in the form of critical discussion.

Right now, I see the WWF as decent entertainment. My only big gripe is that with the roster currently assembled we could be seeing the best matches and angles of all time. In terms of wrestling talent and charisma/acting ability, there should be no limit to what is possible. Instead we are given an uneven but generally entertaining product.

One word to sum up my feelings is... "bored". I almost feel like I am watching reruns because I already know which 4-6 characters will be featured each week, and the only question is which combination they will be in. We basically get 2 hours of top card angles with mid-card matches sprinkled in almost as if they were commercial breaks.

I miss WCW.


Pheadfred
Pickled pork








Since: 9.2.02
From: Nashville

Since last post: 4227 days
Last activity: 3310 days
#12 Posted on
I kind a like this thread , it's a good barometer for us newer people around here , but I would like to see more of the heavy hitters reply also , come on dudes , lay the 411 down .

I'll sum myself up like this ...

" Old school , new school , any damn school . And don't worry about missing the bus son , because I'll take you to school ."

That's just a tag line I always liked to use , so I'm not really an arrogant bastard , just a bastard .

As far as the WWF goes , there's things I like about it and there's things I don't like about it , but I guess I'll keep on watching until the very end .
The main thing is ,imo, they need competition to survive .



"Damnit Peggy , here I am trying to contain an outbreak and you're driving the monkey to the airport. " - Hank Hill
Scorpio
Boudin rouge








Since: 18.2.02
From: Laurel, MD, USA

Since last post: 3801 days
Last activity: 3752 days
#13 Posted on
I am twenty-eight.

Been watching wrestling for about five or six years or so. However I love reading the histories that are out there online, so I have a bit more knowledge than my career would suggest.

One word for the current state of the WWF? Slow. I want movement, momentum. And not just when a top-card guy goes out on an injury or to film a movie.

Am I anticipating this year's WM as much? I can't honestly say that I am.




PMMJ
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#14 Posted on
Now I can only pray that they don't screw it up by adding some huge SNAFU match just so everyone can get their Wrestlemania payout or by putting the single most overrated man in wrestling today, Booker T, on the card.

You didn't say that. Tell me, you did NOT just say that!

Anyway...I'm 26. Like most people my age, I was into wrestling during the Hogan era. I was never a mark for Hogan, because I never got to see him wrestle, but I was a big Warrior fan. I was really a mark for fancy entrances and neat moves (here I'm thinking stuff like powerslams, slingshot suplexes, top-rope cross-bodies, and even a standing hurricanrana I saw Shawn Michaels pull off in his Rocker days). I fell off in the late eighties, and started getting back into it sporatically in the mid nineties, depending on my cable situation. I watched WCW because that's where all the folks I remembered had gone. But while watching I saw stuff like Eddy Guerrero/Chris Benoit matches which blew my mind.

Then, even though I still didn't have cable, I had discovered the internet. So I've been a smark since 97 or so.

I'm a mark for the "spectacle" of pro-wrestling, for lack of a better word. Athletic in-ring moves, Elaborate entrances, creative crowd interactions, the stuff that makes pro-wrestling a "show." I guess that's more on the "sports-entertainment" side, but I think the in-ring action is a great deal of this.

I'm not so exited about the WWF product these days. The in-ring stuff isn't very innovative, and I don't watch PPV's so it's even worse. In addition, I don't like the storytelling as much.

I really like it when different characters and plots are all intertwined in an elaborate manner. This is why I'm such a mark for tournaments, which generally have a lot of different sub-plots within one main plot. I thought the 32-man WCW tournament was the greatest angle of the modern era.

In liu of a tournament, a great time for this kind of storytelling was a couple years ago. Take Angle. He had a relationship and backstory with everyone. no matter where on the card. He admired Vince. He had Edge and Christian as buddies. He was enemies with Austin and the Rock. He hated HHH (even though both were heels), but flirted with his wife. He always made fun of Essa Rios. There were a million little intertwined plots that could be jump-started at any time. A great GREAT booking job during that era. I wish that kind of storytelling would come back.

Moe



And you know this...Man!
Kokolums
Linguica








Since: 21.2.02

Since last post: 4470 days
Last activity: 4460 days
#15 Posted on
I am 29. I started watching wrestling when Savage beat Tito Santana for the IC belt. I watched until the first vignettes for Razor Ramon aired (I remember him sitting in a pool chair cutting a promo). I then came back to wrestling, but to WCW, right when the Piper/Hogan angle started. I switched back to the WWF when WCW brought in WOYAH. I only watched one fed at a time.

-------

My one word: train-wreck.

I'm fairly, but not completely, convinced the WWF will be out of business in 2 years from what I'm watching. They've got an impressive streak of screwing up every major angle they've tried for the past couple of years. And they keep making the same mistakes because its their formula that's bad.

I'm watching it as you would a train-wreck. Its a disaster, but you can't peel your eyes away. Partly because when the WWF hangs up the "closed" sign, a lot of wrestling's past will be gone. I'm enjoying it while its here.

-------

You can't anticipate Wrestlemania. You aren't supposed to. They de-emphasized it to a regular PPV. Its not their signature event anymore. Feuds haven't built up over months to be concluded at WM in years.

-------

I'd fix the product as follows:

1. Identify signature main events.

example: Let's say the WWF identifies Nash V HHH, HHH V Jericho, Austin V RVD, and Rock V RVD as four signature main events for the future.

2. Only allow signature main events to go off at Wrestlemania.

If they headline a PPV, it must end in a screwjob DQ. So don't bother more than once. Make sure you save lots of signature main events for future Wrestlemanias, since you never know who will still be with the company and viable when the time comes.

3. Build up the storyline between the wrestlers of your upcoming signature main event throughout the year.

The WWF books on the fly. It shows, and it sucks. There's no compelling story to follow.

4. Use JTTS in mini-feuds with your main eventers to pace your signature main event angles out.

Mr. Perfect, Undertaker, Kane, Scott Hall, Golddust, DDP
all would be suitable in this role. There are plenty of
free agents and WWA talents that you can mix in as well.

5. Use monster characters instead of parity at the top of the card.

Parity is exciting on paper but boring in practice. It also leaves the fed without any clear direction.

-------

Right now they've already done Austin V Jericho and Rock V Jericho for the title. Those should've never been done. They should've saved them for a future Wrestlemanias. If Jericho was booked to main event WM for the next 3 years it wouldn't be a bad thing. But its lost its punch now.

Actually this booking tells you they don't think Jericho is main event material so they are blowing off the main event matchups to get them in. Then they de-push him.
mskj
Summer sausage








Since: 10.1.02
From: Tennessee

Since last post: 905 days
Last activity: 664 days
#16 Posted on
I'm 21, I watched WWF from Wrestlemania 3 until whatever one Hogan beat Slaughter. I picked it back up in late 98, mainly because of the Rock, and have only missed two ppvs since.

I am excited about the WWF. I'm excited about the nWo. I'm looking forward to the company split. The Rock still puts me on the edge of my seat. I'm esp. excited about the future of the WWF. They have an amazing talent roster and they have bulit a solid fan base. I think by Wrestlemania X-10 (0?) the top of the WWF is going to look very different. I look forward to that.

I'm looking forward to this Wrestlemania just as much as any before it. I don't think the match (Hogan-Rock) will be that great, but I do think it will be remembered for a long time.

(edited by mskj on 28.2.02 1332)
Updating Ohio State's basketball record could get to be a chore. Just remember, Michigan sucks.
BigPofo
Chaurice








Since: 27.2.02
From: New Jersey

Since last post: 4457 days
Last activity: 4136 days
#17 Posted on
I'm 26 and I was a huge fan back in the Rock N Wrestling days. I stopped watching for a while and came back again in late 1998. I must admit my interest in the WWF today has faded lately. I think it has lost some of the fire it used to have. The fueds they have developed between wrestlers seem too short and never seem to have a big payoff at the end. I like a good mix of sports entertainment and good wrestling. I think that there isn't enough focus on the in ring aspect of the storylines. I remember a time when the main event was the most important match of the show on RAW or Smackdown. Now it is always some random tag team match, or a match ruined by a run-in or DQ.
Markme123
Polska kielbasa








Since: 7.1.02
From: San Jose, Cali

Since last post: 3664 days
Last activity: 3372 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
#18 Posted on
Well why not:

I'm *16* and have been watching wrestling since I can remember. I grew up watching mostly the WWF, but did find WCW in 1992. In January of 93, my dad bought me a blank tape and taught me to record wrestling shows on our gray Zenith VRC. I remember taping WWF Mania, Clash of the Champions XXII(Thunderdome!), Nickelodeon's Wild n Crazy Kids, and Looney Toons. I also taped the Monday Night Raw where Brutus Beefcake got beat up with a breifcase by Money Inc. I didn't watch too much WWF in 95 (which I think was the worst year for the company), so I turned to WCW(that didn't last long). Anyway, I grew up with the WWF's 'Sports Entertainment', so unlike a lot of guys I don't get too mad when they srew up something. I like to say that I have "an emotional bond" with them because of reasons I won't get into here.

I mean, like the Rock, I like Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, the Undertaker, the nWo, Regal, Chris Jericho. I like the Taker-Flair angle. I like Billy and Chuck(...), so as a whole I still enjoy WWF TV. They're not close to the level of compelling TV/angles that they achieved in 97 and 98. Nor is their main event scene as strong as in 2000 and early 2001. I do agree however, that they need to have more coherent storylines and better continuation with their fueds. Use the history between wrestlers to futher the angle. Don't just drop the RVD-Goldust fued without an expanation. Use the fact that Van Dam beat Regal in 26 seconds in a nontitle match to build heat for the championship match at WM. Simple stuff like that does help.

Still, eventough I feel that the WWF is in a rut, I don't think it is as god awful as others say it is.

(edited by Markme123 on 27.2.02 1307)
"We can't bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell them stories that don't go anywhere. Like that time I took the ferry over to Shelbyville; I needed a new heel for my shoe. So, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickle, and in those days, nickles had pictures of bumblebees on them. "Give me five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where were we? Oh yeah, the important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have any white onions, because of the war; the only thing you can get was those big yellow ones..." -Abe Simpson
UAsnake2002
Cotechino








Since: 27.2.02
From: Tuscaloosa, AL, USA

Since last post: 4404 days
Last activity: 4404 days
#19 Posted on
How old are you? How long have you been watching wrestling? What do you think of the WWF right now (pick one word to summarise your general feeling then briefly expand your sentiment)? Are you anticipating WrestleMania with as much feeling as you have done in previous years?

I am 22 and have been a fan since was about 7. The one word to describe the WWF is quagmire. They are basically stuck in their own mess, and are not patient enough to slowly rise up. Instead they want a quick fix (Invasion, nWo etc.). It just won't happen. I'm anticipating this year's WM just as much as previous years. It's Wrestlemania, the greatest PPV of all time. Sure Tito Santana vs The Executioner was on the first WM, but hey they all can't be perfect.



____________________ is Walking!

A)The Rock
B)CRZ
C)Everyone, away from this crap.
Bitter The Clown
Loukanika








Since: 20.2.02

Since last post: 4106 days
Last activity: 2158 days
#20 Posted on
I'm 23. I've been watching wrestling since 1998. The best word to decribe the WWF right now is recovering. I think in a year or two, the WWF will go through a major shake-up, similar to the transition from the "New WWF Generation" to the Attitude Era. I imagine 'Taker and SCSA will probably be gone in the next few years, and I don't see the nWo staying around much longer. As for Wrestlemania, I'm a bit wary. I'm not as pumped for it as I was last year. Although I think most of the matches will be good, there just hasn't been enough build-up for an event of this size and significance. Of course, I'm still going ot buy it.
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I'm holding out for him to inherit the Disco Inferno theme with the wolf at the beginning. Can you dig that, SUCKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?
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