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The W - Baseball - Phillies phire Bowa
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Roy.
Pepperoni








Since: 25.2.04
From: Keystone State

Since last post: 2170 days
Last activity: 640 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.62
Click Here (sports.espn.go.com)

I have mixed feelings on this. I know they needed a change, but it really stinks that Major League Baseball players can't take a fiery, confrontational manager. He ran Rolen out of town with his temper and his expectations, and pissed off everybody on the team from Pat Burrell to Mike Lieberthal. I guess baseball players can't take criticism like they used to.

To defend him, the man wasn't allowed to manage the way that he wanted. Every time he called a team meeting, he wound up pissing his team off for calling somebody's crappy play out, so he stopped meeting with them, which, of course, lead to mediocrity. He called something like 2 closed door meetings in the past two seasons.

My prediction for the next Phillies manager: Charlie Manual. He's in the front office in a do-nothing job, and is Thome's favorite person.

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SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1140 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.57
The bottom line on Larry Bowa is he's not only an asshole who ran off the best player the Phillies had post-Mike Schmidt, but he's a crap manager that doesn't win. They needed to fire him because they're paying a lot of money to not go to the playoffs with that group of players that really SHOULD have beaten the team the Braves put out this year. He's won nothing since coming there.

To simply blame the players for being thin-skinned is ignoring that Bowa is a prick. If any team hires him to manage, they deserve exactly what they get with him. You don't need to coddle your players like Dusty Baker does, but you do need to meet them halfway sometimes. Bowa is incapable of that because he thinks he's Casey Stengel or something.

If I were the Phillies I'd hire Mike Hargrove, who is a quality game manager, a great player manager, a winner with veteran teams, and he also has good history with Thome and I think he could get more out of Burrell than Manuel could. I do think they'll go with Manuel though.



@scott.com // @tcf.com // @rym.com // @dvdaf.com
BWT
Boerewors








Since: 27.1.04
From: Philly

Since last post: 3004 days
Last activity: 2608 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.92
Like you Roy I have mixed feelings. Bowa is almost an icon in this town but the fact is he didn't win anything here and was part of three teams that choked down the stretch. Why Ed Wade is still around after 11 straight season of missing the playoffs I don't know but somehow he gets a free pass. Bowa was not going to work and I knew that during his second year. The problem with the Phillies is that we really don't have any guys of value to trade right now. Burrell has very little value due to his big contract and the verdicts still out on the youngsters. If I were in charge I would fire Wade and trade Abreau who likely peaked this year and get three or four decent young players for him and start over. One thing about Bowa that you cant say about his players, he cared.

(edited by BWT on 3.10.04 1643)
Roy.
Pepperoni








Since: 25.2.04
From: Keystone State

Since last post: 2170 days
Last activity: 640 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.62
    Originally posted by BWT
    Why Ed Wade is still around after 11 straight season of missing the playoffs I don't know but somehow he gets a free pass.


Like Bowa, he's a homegrown Phillie. He's supposedly been in the organization forever, and the owners and executives like him, despite his seeming ineptness to do anything meaningful at the trade deadline. This year, I think he was handcuffed because the team was already over budget, but hopefully he can redeem himself in the off season and next year.

    Originally posted by ScottChrist
    The bottom line on Larry Bowa is he's not only an asshole who ran off the best player the Phillies had post-Mike Schmidt, but he's a crap manager that doesn't win.


Rolen was out of town long before Bowa took over, unfortunately. They hated each other, yes, but Rolen was taking shots at the organization for not spending money and for not making the right moves at least a year and a half before Bowa came along. Larry was just the catalyst. I pretty much knew there was no chance of re-signing Rolen, and I think the rest of the city knew that as well.
beefncheddar
Linguica








Since: 16.2.04
From: Mt. Pleasant, SC

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 7 days
#5 Posted on
Fire Bowa? About time.
Fire Wade? Absolutely.
Trade Abreu? No way. I'd rather see them deal Thome than Abreu.

Please understand, I don't want them to deal Thome, but they do have a guy (Howard) that they could plug into 1B. As far as replacing Abreu goes, if you think you can go out and get a 30-30 guy, be my guest. Otherwise, I'll stick with Abreu.
BWT
Boerewors








Since: 27.1.04
From: Philly

Since last post: 3004 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
My point with trading Abreu was that he is the lone Phillie that has any trade value at this point. Thome has too big of a contract to move so thats not going to happen. Abreu has a high salary (10 million) but I think that if he was on the market tomorrow there would be 15 teams making an offer. The biggest mistake the Phillies made over the last two years was the Estrada for Millwood trade that killed there rotation and made them keep Lieberthall at 7.5 million. Thats almost 20 million in salary for two players who have been huge failures. The other major mistake of Ed Wade was never pulling the trigger on Shilling in the off season. Oh and what has Ryan Howard shown you in 19 games? Your going to trade Thome for a guy who hit two home runs and five RBI's in 39 at bats?

To make things worse it looks like John Vukovich's run is over as a Phillies coach.
http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/phi/news/phi_news.jsp?ymd=20041005&content_id=883658&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp
Roy.
Pepperoni








Since: 25.2.04
From: Keystone State

Since last post: 2170 days
Last activity: 640 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.62
    Originally posted by BWT
    To make things worse it looks like John Vukovich's run is over as a Phillies coach.


Dang, I really like the guy. Unfortunately, when Bowa was being hired, Vuke was also in the running, and the Philly papers ran rampant with quotes from Phillies saying that they hate Vuke and he's too hard on the guys.

I guess they're really going for a "touchy-feely" staff. Too bad, because Vuke was one of the best 3rd base coaches.

Manager Candidates according to the Philadelphia Inquirer (philly.com)
    Originally posted by Philadelphia Inquirer
    Wade did not comment on prospective candidates, but Charlie Manuel, Grady Little and Jim Fregosi have been mentioned. Don Baylor, Marc Bombard, Cito Gaston, Davey Johnson, Jim Leyland, John Russell, Juan Samuel and Gary Varsho are all interesting. There are others.


Fregosi! They can't be serious. I love the guy, but they had one good year with him as manager!
SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1140 days
Last activity: 474 days
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.59
    Originally posted by Roy.
      Originally posted by Philadelphia Inquirer
      Wade did not comment on prospective candidates, but Charlie Manuel, Grady Little and Jim Fregosi have been mentioned. Don Baylor, Marc Bombard, Cito Gaston, Davey Johnson, Jim Leyland, John Russell, Juan Samuel and Gary Varsho are all interesting. There are others.



Don Baylor is certainly interesting. Davey Johnson would be a nice hire for anyone.



@scott.com // @tcf.com // @rym.com // @dvdaf.com
beefncheddar
Linguica








Since: 16.2.04
From: Mt. Pleasant, SC

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 7 days
#9 Posted on
    Originally posted by BWT
    Oh and what has Ryan Howard shown you in 19 games? Your going to trade Thome for a guy who hit two home runs and five RBI's in 39 at bats?


No. I'd rather not deal Thome. But if I had a choice of which player to deal, I'd pick Thome over Abreu.

The Phils have no replacement for Abreu. Losing Abreu would leave them with an OF of Burrell, Michaels or Byrd or an acquisition in CF and a big hole in right. That's a terrible OF, unless Burrell figures out what he did two years ago.

And as far as Howard goes, it's not so much what he did in 19 MLB games. It's more what he's done his ENTIRE minor league career -- hit the you-know-what out of the ball.
Roy.
Pepperoni








Since: 25.2.04
From: Keystone State

Since last post: 2170 days
Last activity: 640 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.62
Neither Thome or Abreu are going anywhere. Thome is so beloved in Philadelphia, there would be an outright revolt if he was traded. The man is a class act on and off the field, and what he's done to endear himself to fans is amazing. I daresay that he's the most popular athlete in Philadelphia (Maybe tied with T.O. right now). Both Thome and Abreu have huge contracts, but the ownership is comfortable with them. Bobby's just starting to be liked by the fans (screw Howard Eskin) as well, and considering he's the only Philly to ever have a 30-30 season (twice, no less) and he had the best year of his career, he's sticking around a long long time.

Howard's playing outfield in winter ball, and is open to the idea of becoming an outfielder. If he does, it's a questionable outfield, defense-wise. That is, if Howard spends next year in the bigs.

I'm guessing Burrell is going to have a better year next year, especially if they get a manager that can deal with him. I guess Bowa made him into a headcase. I think that says more about Burrell than about Bowa, frankly.
BWT
Boerewors








Since: 27.1.04
From: Philly

Since last post: 3004 days
Last activity: 2608 days
AIM:  
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
Ed Wade was on 610 today with Glen Macnow (who is filling in for the suspended Howad Eskin) and Mike Miss (who returned to the station a few weeks ago and I hope he gets a full time job).

Wade said in August he was leaning towards firing Bowa but didn't tell him when Larry asked. However he claims he didn't lie to him.

Wade said that he didn't make a move at the deadline because "we did everything that we could" When asked about Beltran he said money was not an issue but the lack of players was. He says they did all that they could.

Wade says that Hammles and Floyd were not available during the deadline despite other teams advances.

When asked if he ever intervened on issues between the team and the coaching staff he said he never had a team meeting but did meet with some players on conflicts with the medical staff *COUGHBILLYWAGNERCOUGH*.

He said he doesn't think this team is missing heart or character LOL!

He said he thinks that Thome and David Bell were great leaders this past year and said there was never any quit from this team.

He said he would be open to trading Thome for the right offer but said it would take a great deal to move him.

Said they didn't get Schilling in the off season because they couldn't match up talent.

Glen Macnow brings up the fact that the Phillies are one of only four teams over the last seven years to not make the playoffs and asks how he keeps his job. Ed Wade said the team is better then it was when he got here.

He said they would love to re sign Eric Milton and that Kevin Millwood would likely not be back.

Even though I disagree with just about everything Wade said I respect that he faced the heat and called in. I really think that if we offered Floyd and Howard to KC would would be in the playoffs now with Beltran. Very good interview.

Oh and Roy I don't dislike Abreu I just think that he has peeked as a player and that he does still write people the wrong way by his laziness in the outfield. I think he is a very good player and maybe the best RF in Phillies history.
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 9 hours
Last activity: 9 hours
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41

Wait, Missanelli came back? When did that happen?

I guess we can thank the new program director, since they finally got rid of Bigby.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
The Affirmation, Baby Blog
Roy.
Pepperoni








Since: 25.2.04
From: Keystone State

Since last post: 2170 days
Last activity: 640 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.62
    Originally posted by odessasteps

    Wait, Missanelli came back? When did that happen?


Last I heard, he's only back until the Eskin suspension is up. He started right after Howard's suspension.
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 9 hours
Last activity: 9 hours
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41

I didn't realize he had been fired from WMMR. (my reading of the Inquirer online has gotten very lapse.)

Them bringing Fredericks out of retirement to work with Mike is a great gimmick.

I wonder if they will bring back the Field of 64, for one last time.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
The Affirmation, Baby Blog
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by Roy.
    Howard's playing outfield in winter ball, and is open to the idea of becoming an outfielder. If he does, it's a questionable outfield, defense-wise. That is, if Howard spends next year in the bigs.

The speculation on that is to prevent teams from picking off Howard for basically nothing. Teams know he won't be supplanting Thome (therefore lowering his value), so by working him in the OF, the Phillies can hopefully up his trade value.


    I didn't realize he had been fired from WMMR.

He's been off WMMR for 2-3 months now.



BWT
Boerewors








Since: 27.1.04
From: Philly

Since last post: 3004 days
Last activity: 2608 days
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
From what I've been told by my friend who interns at 610 is that they want to bring back Missanelli in the mid day slot with Anthony. For now he should be with 610 during the Eagles season doing pre and post game shows and then after that who knows.
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 9 hours
Last activity: 9 hours
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41
    Originally posted by BWT
    From what I've been told by my friend who interns at 610 is that they want to bring back Missanelli in the mid day slot with Anthony. For now he should be with 610 during the Eagles season doing pre and post game shows and then after that who knows.


ALthough I've not listened to the station since I moved, I think the line-up peaked with Mac and Mac and then Mike and Steve. When Jody left and they brought in Garguano (sp) and put Mike with Eskin, the station jumped the shark.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
The Affirmation, Baby Blog
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