Originally posted by Joseph RyderYes the taser looked completely necessary, he appeared to be a huge threat to everyone around him.
No offense, but I can't really tell if that's sarcasm or not. If it is, then I have to point out that while he may had not looked like a threat, you can never be 100% sure. I'm sure most everyone thought a loudmouth son and his drunk father were no threat until they jumped the Royals 1st base coach.
Even if he wasn't putting people lives in danger, the kid was a dumbass who was being a incredible annoyance. He wanted attention, so he figured to do it in a way that wasted a lot of hard working people's time and even money. I mean, a lot of them have tight schedules or kids with tight schedules (remember it's still school season) and to have someone delay the game means they might not be able to watch the end of it. You think that's fair?
Also, I would point out that he could had been a danger anyway. With the police focused solely on him, they can't focus on other possible dangerous situations (ex. a fight in the stands or someone with a health problem). The ass deserved a taser. I know if was the officer, I would had held on the trigger a good couple more seconds. DON'T RUN ONTO THE FIELD!
I read where a poster on another board thought the tasing was completely unnecessary. He/shy alluded that he should have been contained but not tased, partially due to his only being 17. How in the world does the security staff know how old the idiot is? Idiots.
Originally posted by djpI read where a poster on another board thought the tasing was completely unnecessary. He/shy alluded that he should have been contained but not tased, partially due to his only being 17. How in the world does the security staff know how old the idiot is? Idiots.
I woulda tased his balls.
My concern is that there are 350 people who have died after being shocked by tasers in the last 10 years. Given that, I think it should only be used to disarm a dangerous assailant, not as "this kid is making us look stupid because we're so out of shape".
Originally posted by supersalvadoranI have to point out that while he may had not looked like a threat, you can never be 100% sure.
I thought tasings were reserved for people who WERE threats, or sure to become threats, not ones who "most definitely were not threats but goddamnit I'm too out of shape to catch him."
Originally posted by supersalvadoranI'm sure most everyone thought a loudmouth son and his drunk father were no threat until they jumped the Royals 1st base coach.
First sentence from the AP article about that incident: "With his eyes on home plate and his back to the seats, Tom Gamboa never saw them coming."
This kid on the other hand...by the time he was tased, he was not a threat. All eyes were on him. He would not be sneak-attacking Jayson Werth. Two completely different incidents.
Originally posted by supersalvadoranEven if he wasn't putting people lives in danger, the kid was a dumbass who was being a incredible annoyance.
Is that the barrier now for tasing? Being an "annoyance"?
Originally posted by supersalvadoranHe wanted attention, so he figured to do it in a way that wasted a lot of hard working people's time and even money. I mean, a lot of them have tight schedules or kids with tight schedules (remember it's still school season) and to have someone delay the game means they might not be able to watch the end of it. You think that's fair?
Because of this unruly behavior, Jr got to bed at 1:04 am instead of 1:01 am. For some reason I can't muster the outrage.
Originally posted by supersalvadoranAlso, I would point out that he could had been a danger anyway. With the police focused solely on him, they can't focus on other possible dangerous situations (ex. a fight in the stands or someone with a health problem). The ass deserved a taser. I know if was the officer, I would had held on the trigger a good couple more seconds. DON'T RUN ONTO THE FIELD!
From the video it appeared this kid took up the time of ONE officer and a variety of grounds crew.
Seems the taser has gained in popularity over the past 10 years, I wonder what type of behavior will earn you a tasing 10 years from now. I don't think we as a society should be okaying its use just because Chief Wiggum can't run down a 17 year old kid in an ENCLOSED SPACE, and to end the embarrassment he just electroshocks someone.
Originally posted by Joseph RyderIs that the barrier now for tasing? Being an "annoyance"?
How about "failure to comply with a police officer's instructions". Is THAT enough reason?
I can't find what the rules would be Philly, but in Canada, for example, the answer would be "no".
Originally posted by Calgary HeraldAs RCMP announced changes to its Taser practices Tuesday, new numbers from the Alberta Solicitor General's office show the controversial stun guns are being used less often in the province.
On Tuesday, for the second time in two years, the RCMP revamped their rules on Tasers -- this time dictating the weapons should only be fired when a suspect is causing "bodily harm" or is about to do so.
It's not unusual for there to be policies in place that make it clear when the use of Tasers is warranted and when it's not, and "being an idiot running around" tends not to qualify.
EDIT: Or even better, what AWA said.
(edited by hansen9j on 5.5.10 1523) It is the policy of the documentary crew to remain true observers and not interfere with its subjects. "This topic is going to suck to read in three years." -Psycho Penguin "Well. Shit." -hansen9j
I was a pre-taser police officer. That is, we didn't have them. We had batons.
But we had LOTs of sessions at line up about necessary force, and in fact, this sort of event (because we had Candlestick park) was brought up.
We were never to use our batons on someone just because they were escaping, but only if they brought force onto us (like, they wanted to fight or something). Necessary force is all about using what is needed without using too much.
In my opinion, just mine, this Tasering is used too frequently and without considering necessary force. Had someone grabbed the kid, which they would have soon, he would have stopped rather than fought, as do most of these field runners. If he didn't, well then, sure, taser him. That's necessary force.
We'll be back right after order has been restored here in the Omni Center.
That the universe was formed by a fortuitous concourse of atoms, I will no more believe than that the accidental jumbling of the alphabet would fall into a most ingenious treatise of philosophy - Swift
Originally posted by StaggerLeeHow about "failure to comply with a police officer's instructions". Is THAT enough reason?
No. Far too vague, depends on what the officer's instructions are and the situation.
Originally posted by AWArulzIn my opinion, just mine, this Tasering is used too frequently and without considering necessary force. Had someone grabbed the kid, which they would have soon, he would have stopped rather than fought, as do most of these field runners. If he didn't, well then, sure, taser him. That's necessary force.
Agree. This kid had NOWHERE to go and 4-5 adult men chasing him (probably more every few seconds it continued). Catch him, cuff him (if you even need to), charge him with "being annoying" and put him in a cell for the night. Be a professional. Why does the taser have to get involved?
Agree. This kid had NOWHERE to go and 4-5 adult men chasing him (probably more every few seconds it continued). Catch him, cuff him (if you even need to), charge him with "being annoying" and put him in a cell for the night. Be a professional. Why does the taser have to get involved?
Because the kid was a fuck up. I get your point, but when even your parents leaving you hanging out to dry, yeah. You fucked up
"Use the Taser" from the Philly crowd sets a new standard. And a good one. If it's rude and you can clap to it, right on
FLEA
Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high
"Learn to love yourself... for it is the greatest love of all" - Jeremy Borash 11:24 AM May 13th,2009
Joseph Ryder, I understand your disagreeing with the use of the taser. But again, I have to ask, how exactly do you know 100% he wasn't going to be a threat? How, for instance, are you so sure he wasn't hiding a object that could harm others? Or how are you so sure he wouldn't go after one of the players and attack them? In fairness, I might watch too much COPS or those 'amazing police videos' shows. but I have seen and heard many instances on the show where people who were thought of as 'not a threat' turned on fit and well trained police officers and injure or even kill them. I go by the old saying 'never judge a book by its cover' and I believe it applies in this case. Just because he was a teenager running around like a idiot doesn't mean we or the police can just assume he wasn't a threat.
Because of this unruly behavior, Jr got to bed at 1:04 am instead of 1:01 am. For some reason I can't muster the outrage.
Except that's not the case for most. What about those who try to 'beat the traffic'? Or those who use public transportation? If they miss a bus or a train, that three minutes can become 30 minutes, an hour, or even more. And you can still say it's nothing, but if you have an hour or so wasted away and you have a crappy day at work for whatever reason due to losing the time to prepare, sleep, etc, you wouldn't just think of it as an simple annoyance.
Maybe because I live in the area, I would not extend the benefit of the doubt to any Philly fan, based on precedent.
I have friends who hate when all the Philly fan incidents are brought up and I understand them hating the subject of cheap shots by jerks in the media like Mariotti or Bayless.
Originally posted by supersalvadoranJoseph Ryder, I understand your disagreeing with the use of the taser. But again, I have to ask, how exactly do you know 100% he wasn't going to be a threat? How, for instance, are you so sure he wasn't hiding a object that could harm others? Or how are you so sure he wouldn't go after one of the players and attack them? In fairness, I might watch too much COPS or those 'amazing police videos' shows. but I have seen and heard many instances on the show where people who were thought of as 'not a threat' turned on fit and well trained police officers and injure or even kill them. I go by the old saying 'never judge a book by its cover' and I believe it applies in this case. Just because he was a teenager running around like a idiot doesn't mean we or the police can just assume he wasn't a threat.
Are you seriously suggesting that, in dealing with suspects who are not being violent or threatening, police should blindly assume they will become violent and threatening and act accordingly? Aside from the fact that it violates just about everything about everything, I don't see any problems with that.
Running onto a baseball field doesn't make someone likely to be violent. At least not anymore than a number of other crimes, such as running a red light. I don't think police should use force during a routine traffic stop just because the driver might get violent when the office approaches the window.
Because of this unruly behavior, Jr got to bed at 1:04 am instead of 1:01 am. For some reason I can't muster the outrage.
Except that's not the case for most. What about those who try to 'beat the traffic'? Or those who use public transportation? If they miss a bus or a train, that three minutes can become 30 minutes, an hour, or even more. And you can still say it's nothing, but if you have an hour or so wasted away and you have a crappy day at work for whatever reason due to losing the time to prepare, sleep, etc, you wouldn't just think of it as an simple annoyance.
It's still only three minutes, regardless of what it is causing you to miss. That doesn't mean I have any idea what "beating the traffic" has to do with this, though. If people taking public transportation are counting on the game to end in a specific three-minute window, they have other problems.
And of course that still wouldn't justify the excessive force used to catch him.
Originally posted by Joseph RyderFirst sentence from the AP article about that incident: "With his eyes on home plate and his back to the seats, Tom Gamboa never saw them coming."
If Tom Gamboa is going to be brought up, perhaps someone should ask him his thoughts: like this guy did:
As of 2/28/05: 101 pounds since December 7, 2004 OFFICIAL THREE-MONTH COUNT: 112 pounds on March 9, 2005 OFFICIAL SIX-MONTH COUNT: 142 pounds on June 8, 2005 OFFICIAL ONE YEAR COUNT: 187 pounds on December 7, 2005 As of 2/27/06: 202 pounds "I've lost a heavyweight" As of 7/31/06: 224 pounds As of 12/7/08 (four years out): Still 210 pounds down! Now announcing for NBWA Championship Wrestling! *2008 NBWA Personality of the Year*
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