It is just a damn shame that the Internet world rapes our business each and every day. I guess it is just the nature of the beast, and there isnt anything we can do to stop it. Keeping that fact in mind, I sincerely wish you all my very best. I thank you again for your time and support.
They're called assholes. They are in every single part of the world - and people have to deal with them.
It's not the internet that is at fault, it's the assholes.
This kind of thinking really bothers me. First, he's defeatist about the whole situation. Perhaps he didn't try hard enough to block the assholes from his site.
You can't just open a public forum and hope for the best. Even Chris and I have had to enlist other moderators to help out. People are assholes - you have to assume this and put plans in place to moderate the exposure that the assholes get. It seems to me that they were overwhelmed - but that seems more like bad implementation than a failure for the internet.
I'm just worried that this is yet another voice in the WWE offices slamming the internet, because he didn't really understand how to make it work for him.
Sorry it didn't work out for you. Maybe rethink calling me an accomplice to rape at some point, too.
Willful ignorance of science is not commendable. Refusing to learn the difference between a credible source and a shill is criminally stupid.
I could be totally wrong here, but I got the impression he was trying to have a go at the assholes. I mean he's posted a message on the internet sincerely thanking people and wishing them all the best so that would at least suggest that he doesn't tar everyone with the same brush.
He appeared to me to be more upset with the ease with which asshole's can be asshole's when they're on the net. I mean you more or less have to find out someone's a wazzuck before you can do anything about it, and even then the action you can take against them to deter them from doing it again is pretty limited.
I guess the way he sees it is that he set up a forum for fans and as far as he's concerned they abused his good nature. I don't agree with the suggestion that the 'internet world' is inherently bad, but that may just be shoddy wording on his part. Even if its not, he is from a generation that can be pretty technophobic so to lump the technology in with the asshats when aportioning blame is perhaps understandable in those terms.
I can see why you'd be a bit pissed off but I genuinely think you were more likely to be one of those who he was sincerely wishing all the best rather than one of those he was accusing of raping the business.
I agree with Paul when he says the internet rapes the nature of the business(well, the users)
I was a loyal member of that message board, and when he returned to the WWE, all hell broke loose. "You said you wouldn't be rejoining the WWE! You lying fatass! I can't beleive you would lie to us! LIER!!" blah blah blah. And people would shout back "Ever hear of the word Kayfabe?" back and forth.
Sometimes a lie is a shocking swerve, and other times a lie is just a lie.
In either case, he lied to people who trusted him, in order to further his own career. I can understand why people were upset by this.
It's one thing when a character - Paul Bearer - lies to you. You know it's a script, and you get upset at the writing. It's another thing when a person lies to you (Piper, Percy, etc.) - people feel betrayed.
Maybe they've been playing these characters for too long if they can't tell where that line is any longer.
(Editorial note: I realize his name isn't really Percy Pringle, but I can't remember what it is and it's not that important for my point so I'm not going to look it up).
(edited by Guru Zim on 8.4.04 1557) Willful ignorance of science is not commendable. Refusing to learn the difference between a credible source and a shill is criminally stupid.
I used to visit his website at least once a day. His "Ask Percy" section was great and a good way to ask things that you have been wondering about in wrestling. But at least 4 times a day someone would post (when the return of the Undertaker was known on the net) "Are you going to return to WWE with Taker?" And every time he would say "No the rumors a totally false" or something to that degree. Now, this was in the part of his message board where he wasn't being "WWE's Paul Bearer" but where he was being "Percy Pringle regular guy". I can understand why people got upset cause they were trying to be truthful with him and thought he was doing the same. So, if you went to his message board and asked a question you really wanted an answer to and he said he would be truthful and now he turns around does the exact opposite, you would be pretty pissed with him too.
Originally posted by XPacArmyAt least 4 times a day someone would post (when the return of the Undertaker was known on the net) "Are you going to return to WWE with Taker?" And every time he would say "No the rumors a totally false" or something to that degree. Now, this was in the part of his message board where he wasn't being "WWE's Paul Bearer" but where he was being "Percy Pringle regular guy". I can understand why people got upset cause they were trying to be truthful with him and thought he was doing the same. So, if you went to his message board and asked a question you really wanted an answer to and he said he would be truthful and now he turns around does the exact opposite, you would be pretty pissed with him too.
I'd say his obligation has to be first and foremost to the WWE given that they were who he signed a contract with. I'd imagine they'd have been quite firm with him about not letting the public know he was coming back until it happened. He doesn't even really have the option of a 'no comment' because that would be taken as confirmation that he was returning.
It would be similar to a soccer player who was being targeted by a rival club. He may be perfectly well aware that he's moving, but out of respect to his current and future employers he wouldn't say anything, either to the press or to fans on the street, until an official announcement's made.
Whether he's being Paul Bearer, Percy Pringle or Pepe le Peu he had still signed a contract with the WWE and had to abide by their rules. Any fans who are upset (and in my opinion they really have no right to be) should direct their anger at the people who told him to lie rather than at him.
I agree with him fully. Everyone in this worldwide IWC community tries to justify everything they say and do with "Well, it's the internet, we can say whatever we want and WWE is just jealous because they cannot control it." or my general favorite message board comeback "If you don't like _____, don't watch or stay off the board."
Well, that it kind of bogus. Just because you have the freedom to say something doesn't mean you should. I guess this is advice could be applied to some of my comments as well, but usually when I make those comments, it is to point out IWC faults...which are then usually deleted by someone. But that's beside the point.
I can see how people can think it is "cool" to be so in the know, but to me it is a little pathetic.
People say kayfabe is dead, well it is not entirely Vince's fault. People chant "bullshit" or "you sold-out" when they don't like the finish or someone is leaving. They chant "you fucked up" when a guy slips on the ropes. It's tasteless and it is rude.
News sites and "journalists" report every little detail on a returning wrestler, post spoilers, and even report bogus news. Yes, we don't have to read them, but for some people, it's like telling the 4 year old not to open the Special Box of Wonderful Mystery.
I don't want to plug but WrestleZone.com is one of the best examples of, literally, two 18 year old losers who put up bogus headlines and make up their own news.
I mean, we all can agree that during the MNW's it was a really cool feeling to be wondering who was going to come out at any time...now, everything is so well-known and publicized, and invariably chanted by the fans, essentially ruining the atmosphere.
We all call everybody "marks" like we really understand the concept of the term. Whatever happened to being just a plan fan of someone or a move? Why is it people use the term "mark-out" when RVD does a VanDaminator or when Ric Flair gives a good promo...why can't it just be enjoyed? Nobody would call someone who liked Metallica or Madonna a mark for them, they'd call them a fan.
We have IWC 100's trying to be like a legit (matter of opinion) PWI 500. The IWC 100 is one of the lamest things I have ever heard of, unless you are a wrestler.
The whole point of wrestling is to suspend belief and just ENJOY as we all know.
I think if anything, Bearer was referring to those people who act like they know a lot, but don't. The people who want to call Raven Scott or think everything is a work (Austin contract negotiation, SS 97). He is not referring to all of us fans who are "fans" not "marks."
I probably could be thrown into that group who act like they know a lot and I am sure a few wieners would throw me in there. But I just say actual facts on any board, I usually don't give an opinion unless I have solid facts, matches, etc. behind, and even still, some people can change my mind. I just take wrestling as what it is...a really entertaining and interesting thing to watch.
(edited by XManiac24 on 8.4.04 1706) The Maniac: The object of greatness for envious Maddox-wannabes all over the internet.
Did You Know?: Kurt Angle is not the only olympic gold medalist in WWE history. Bad News Brown won one in Judo.
I used to read that board daily and learned a fair amount of wrestling history doing so. But the writing was on the wall a long time ago--this doesn't surprise me one bit. No, I don't think he shut it down because of "assholes". Probably WWE simply put the hammer down now that he's on the air again; that's the most likely explanation, IMO. Frankly, I wondered what was taking him so long.
Originally posted by Nuclear WinterI don't understand how people could be mad at him for "lying." People kept asking if he was returning, and he kept saying no, because it was supposed to be a surprise.
Is he supposed to come out and say "Hey hey, alright guys, you got me. I am coming back at WrestleMania"?
Good one. He probably had a nondisclosure clause in his contract, and for good reasons.
As for getting upset about the internet, this seems to be a little backward. The internet is here. It's not going away. It's changed the way people communicate and share information. But for some reason, the wrestling industry seems to feel particularly put-upon by this progress.
There are discussion boards about everything under the sun on the net. Does the publishing business gripe when internet bookworms gossip about books? Ditto for music, movies, television, whatever. Hey, I'd rather have my fans discussing my performance on the internet than not discussing it at all.
So sayeth Randy Stilton, the real Stinky Cheese Man!
(I'm told that, in the UK, my name is actually hilarious.)
Well the internet is here, and no, it's not going away but there is something to be said for the fact that no one regulated this damn thing when it first broke through. Every other medium where you can broadcast freely is regulated. What you put out for public consumption on television and radio and in movie theatres is at least subject to some form of classification and is required to meet certain standards. The internet is a place where anything can be put out there. It is the easiest place to say and do more or less whatever you want. You have total anonymity.
Now I'm not saying there's not a bright side to it. In a way it's nice to have a lack of censorship, and the low overhead costs of getting a blog or a cheap little homepage to spout off views eliminates a previously unavoidable problem of those not having money being without a voice. Hell, you can even make money with your own online store, without having to rent a property, open up shop, pay rent and smile to customers. So I suppose, on sheer basis of principle alone, I can see the greatness of the internet.
But you know, it's a hell of a lot easier under those non-restrictive conditions to slander(libel?) people, to harass people, to blackmail people, and to circulate illegal materials. It's not all gravy. There's a flip side to this coin and it's bad. We don't need to go into detailed debate about suicide method sites, bomb construction sites, pedophilia sites and whatnot, but we all know it's out there and the anonymity veils people who are into illegal activities. Bonds them and unites them and let's them communicate. That's not a good thing.
Now relating this quickly to the context of wrestling, it's the same idea. I can understand people of Percy's generation; who broke in around a time when they protected the business, not exactly being thrilled to hear insider terminology being bandied about by people who have never been a part of the business. But hey, I look at it as the simple fact that wrestling was living in the stone age. You know, people were talking about the workrate of other athletes long ago, since the dawn of the sports themselves, and they did it, and do it, on TV in front of larger audiences. They didn't call it workrate, but it was still a matter of conjecture to those who studied it closely enough. Take film critics. Roeper at any moment will talk about pacing, dialogue, drama, intensity...the same things we dissect about wrestling, and no one ever says "If you've never been on a movie set, you don't get an opinion." Newsflash, you fucking neaderthals. You don't get to tell people if they have an opinion. Disagree, argue, ignore but don't step on the shoes of free speech and peaceful (on-line) assembly. It's just the wrestling business that clings to this impotent notion of some great philosophical divide between the performers and the fans. And I'm glad that corpse is in the proverbial grave, because the next generation of wrestling fans will not know of this "you don't get an opinion" facist bullshit. If Percy Pringle or anyone else in the business can't take criticism, they shouldn't put themselves in a position to be criticized. All public figures are subject to criticism simply by virtue of the resounding visibility of their vocations. If you're intensely private, or you can't handle it without closing up shop, you're in the wrong business. Go start a catalogue business or a general store and don't pout. Of course, you have the right to pout but I'll do what bitchy celebrities should always have done. Ignore it.
I'd tell you to kiss my ass, but I don't want to get it infected.
Thing with being a good critic is that you're able to enjoy something and explain why you enjoyed it as much as why you didn't enjoy something. While there are tons of Scott Keith wannabes running around quoting passages from 'Tonight in this Very Ring...' and pawning them off as their own, that does not make the talented critics' points any less valid. I believe it was Dr. Tom who said just last week in a column that some of the best in the business couldn't explain to you WHY they were so good in the ring, it just came naturally, well there are some people who, after reading up on how to perform in the ring and watching enough matches, begin to see through the lines and point out what's enjoyable and not so in a match. It comes as natural as the skill does to the guy that can't explain why he's so good, and it is just as fundamental to the business as the matches themselves.
I totally agree, GURU. In October of 2k2, Pringle parted ways with the WWE and embraced the Internet (his first interview was with Woodward and Scherer at 1wrestling), he got his feet wet, but really didn't "shoot". The more he got involved with the IWC, the more bitter he became towards his former employees. Several times he said "I'm never going back, the Kane storyline ruined the business, etc. Which is all well and good, everyone is titled to his own opinion.
But damn, he shouldn't be shocked that after saying he's not going to do something and then DO it, would betray the same group of sycophants that he befriended when he didn't;t have a better offer. I agree that keeping the "kayfabe" wrap on his WM return was well intended, but when you have the same IWC Cartel saying point blank "HE'S GOING TO BE THERE" and then get pissed at his fans that read that (along with his column)...well, you reap what you sow. All of these wrestlers that are "Internet connected" whine that we are jaded and cynical, but damned if they won't play up to that if they think it will help their careers. Sleep with the dogs, wake up with the....well, you know.
Speaking of which -
XManiac24: We have IWC 100's trying to be like a legit (matter of opinion) PWI 500. The IWC 100 is one of the lamest things I have ever heard of, unless you are a wrestler.
1. *THE* IWC 100 - There is only one.
2. But what did you think of The Wrestling Dead Pool? I created that SPECIFICALLY for people that were not fortunate enough to be included in THE IWC 100.
3. You wouldn't have said that if you were #32
Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high...
Well said, geemoney. I used to like looking back at the different lineages of the different championship belts (NWA, WCW, WWF, ECW), but now that has become an exercise in "Which new belt coincides with the old belt?".