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The W - Pro Wrestling - Patterson not a fan of HHH?
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TopTenPro
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Since: 21.3.04
From: Johnson City, TN

Since last post: 3522 days
Last activity: 3317 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.48
411PWInsider says Pat Patterson does not think HHH should be so dominate.

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/newsboard.php?news_id=10461

As reported previously, Pat Patterson worked with the RAW brand recently to view the product and come up with ideas on how to improve it. Patterson apparently has told Vince McMahon that one of the problems is Triple H dominating the brand too much. Word is that he told Vince that RAW needs more strong characters who are involved in the story.

If this story is true then what direction does VKM choose? Vince has seemingly had a good relationship with Patterson for years, but what now?


(edited by JustinShapiro on 9.10.04 0137)


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BigSteve
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Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.21
Wow. This would be great if it is true. I can't imagine one of the 'stooges' telling Vinnie Mac things he doesn't wanna hear.
Jay
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Since: 27.3.04
From: St. Louis, Missouri

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.15
    Originally posted by TopTenPro
    If this story is true then what direction does VKM choose? Vince has seemingly had a good relationship with Patterson for years, but what now?


However unfortunate it may sound, Triple H. No question.



"The doctor said it would be okay!" -Kane
EastCoastAvenger
Bockwurst








Since: 4.1.02
From: Clearwater, FL

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.84
I remember hearing the report of a joke told in the locker rooms about HHH. It went something like, "Wow, if Triple H and Stephanie ever get a divorce... Vince'll sure miss Stephanie!"

Kinda makes me think Vince and Captain Trips (a cookie for whoever gets the reference!) are pair-bonded for life. Soulmates, if you weeeeeeel!



Two hours later they decided to stop at a diner
Because they loved the smell of eggs and coffee
I just had to smoke a cigarette and wear a hat
By the time that they set off again, the sun was starting to set
It made the sky look red like a nuclear ray
One of them said "what do you want more than anything
in this whole wide world
Do you want money, do you want sex, or do you want all that success?"
I thought about that one myself
(Then they came upon the thing)

From, "The Church of Logic, Sin and Love" by The Men
Dr. Ed Powers
Longanisa
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Since: 1.10.04
From: Los Angeles

Since last post: 3508 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.74
Triple H's dominance is what's keeping wrestling alive in the joke we all know as sports entertainment.

Triple H rescued wrestling. He valued the world title in an era when titles were being passed around left and right. Yet at the same time, Triple H can be a strong champ and put over younger stars, i.e. Shelton Benjamin. The man gives back to the business.

He handpicked two young wrestlers for his Evolution stable, and who are the two brightest stars in wrestling? Mr. Batista and Mr. Orton.

I'd rather have Triple H hold on to the title for the next twenty years than have Vince win it. Oh yeah, too late he already has.

Wrestling was on life support and the wrestlers were becoming less and less like athletes. Instead, they became fat-out-of-shape-stuntmen who had to wear cover-ups like sweats, jerseys and t-shirts when wrestling. What happened to looking like an athlete? Triple H at one point had the best body in the business and it's no coincidence that his proteges Orton and Batista have physiques that rank in the top 5.

Triple H is the only reason one can be proud to be a wrestling fan.

He Rules All.





"Never will be a Rockets fan even if my crybaby Lakers never get their act together." - Ed Powers
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Finder W
Chaurice








Since: 11.11.03
From: Albany, NY 12211

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#6 Posted on
This almost seems to good to be true. Almost makes me think it's a plant of some sort.

Finder

(edited by Finder W on 8.10.04 1558)
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.62
    Originally posted by Dr. Ed Powers
    Triple H's dominance is what's keeping wrestling alive in the joke we all know as sports entertainment.

    Triple H rescued wrestling. He valued the world title in an era when titles were being passed around left and right. Yet at the same time, Triple H can be a strong champ and put over younger stars, i.e. Shelton Benjamin. The man gives back to the business.

    He handpicked two young wrestlers for his Evolution stable, and who are the two brightest stars in wrestling? Mr. Batista and Mr. Orton.

    I'd rather have Triple H hold on to the title for the next twenty years than have Vince win it. Oh yeah, too late he already has.

    Wrestling was on life support and the wrestlers were becoming less and less like athletes. Instead, they became fat-out-of-shape-stuntmen who had to wear cover-ups like sweats, jerseys and t-shirts when wrestling. What happened to looking like an athlete? Triple H at one point had the best body in the business and it's no coincidence that his proteges Orton and Batista have physiques that rank in the top 5.

    Triple H is the only reason one can be proud to be a wrestling fan.

    He Rules All.


Man, where to begin....

* Triple H didn't "value" the world title. He held it for a long time because he was booked to, simple as that. Had Rock, Austin, Undertaker, or anyone booked for a year-long title run, the exact same thing would've happened.

* The two guys he handpicked for Evolution are two guys who, coincidentally, wrestle the same style as HHH himself. Ergo we're seeing nothing new; Orton is a poor man's HHH who is a very poor man's Ric Flair.

* I'll ignore the remark about HHH "putting over young stars," as that ship has sailed long ago over Glass Ceiling Falls. There were no survivors.

* I couldn't care less if a guy has a million-dollar physique if he can't wrestle, or cut a promo, or entertain me in some way. It's logic like this that keeps WWE pushing talentless guys like Heidenreich, Jindrak and a dozen others. If you're a half-decent wrestler at all, you MUST be in shape, I don't care who you are. Some of the bodies might not be impressive, but the cardiovascular conditioning has to be off the page. The ECW "out-of-shape" guys weren't anywhere near the bigtime. The only guy in a major fed with a physique like that is Foley, and I'll be willing to state that Mick Foley is ten times the pro wrestler that HHH will ever be.

* And finally, wrestling didn't "go on life support" until AFTER Triple H was installed as the headline star after the Rock went to Hollywood and Austin became parttime. It's WWE's fault for making a bland heel as their top guy instead of a charismatic face.



KaneRobot
Morcilla








Since: 24.2.02
From: Bowels

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Last activity: 1667 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.15
    Originally posted by Dr. Ed Powers
    Triple H's dominance is what's keeping wrestling alive in the joke we all know as sports entertainment.

    Triple H rescued wrestling. He valued the world title in an era when titles were being passed around left and right. Yet at the same time, Triple H can be a strong champ and put over younger stars, i.e. Shelton Benjamin. The man gives back to the business.

    He handpicked two young wrestlers for his Evolution stable, and who are the two brightest stars in wrestling? Mr. Batista and Mr. Orton.

    I'd rather have Triple H hold on to the title for the next twenty years than have Vince win it. Oh yeah, too late he already has.

    Wrestling was on life support and the wrestlers were becoming less and less like athletes. Instead, they became fat-out-of-shape-stuntmen who had to wear cover-ups like sweats, jerseys and t-shirts when wrestling. What happened to looking like an athlete? Triple H at one point had the best body in the business and it's no coincidence that his proteges Orton and Batista have physiques that rank in the top 5.

    Triple H is the only reason one can be proud to be a wrestling fan.

    He Rules All.


Dear god.

As HHH's dominance went up, business went down. That's some rescue.

Yeah, he really put the value back in that world title when Bischoff handed it to him without him beating anyone. Newsflash - the title isn't legitimately worth a damn thing because wrestling is not true competition. A title belt is a prop.

Wrestling "was on life support?" Wrestling is not now and never was on life support. Wrestling isn't going anywhere, HHH or no HHH. I'll ignore your praise of HHH's likely steroid-enhanced physique, and I won't even mention Batista...oh, whoops.

If you're proud to be a wrestling fan only because of HHH, you're exactly the kind of fan WWE wants. Thank god there are less and less of you as time goes on.

Triple H is on top of the company for two reasons, and two reasons only - 1) He's banging the heiress to the company and can do whatever he wants 2) The top stars who are more well known and/or respected than him (Austin, Rock, Angle, Undertaker) are either out of the company or on the other show.




"We fight in Soviet Union, or we fight NOWHERE."
Phantom Lord
Salami








Since: 18.6.04
From: The Bensonhurst section of Brooklyn, NY

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.80
Triple H's dominance is what's keeping wrestling alive in the joke we all know as sports entertainment.

I don't even know how to possibly respond to that statement with out questioning the original posters mental state.

Triple H rescued wrestling. He valued the world title in an era when titles were being passed around left and right. Yet at the same time, Triple H can be a strong champ and put over younger stars, i.e. Shelton Benjamin. The man gives back to the business.

Oh yeah...that rub on Shelton has worked wonders for him so far...

Wrestling was on life support and the wrestlers were becoming less and less like athletes. Instead, they became fat-out-of-shape-stuntmen who had to wear cover-ups like sweats, jerseys and t-shirts when wrestling. What happened to looking like an athlete? Triple H at one point had the best body in the business and it's no coincidence that his proteges Orton and Batista have physiques that rank in the top 5.

Triple H is the only reason one can be proud to be a wrestling fan.


I'd take a guy in sweats over a roid monkey any day of the week.

Triple H no longer has the best body because the old theory of building muscle upon muscle upon muscle does nothing for conditioning.

It was only after Triple H stopped taking the left over ICOPRO that Vince had that he got back to a somewhat respectable level of wrestling. But no matter how good he may be, the fact remains in 2002-2003 he sabotaged RVD, Kane, and Booker T when they could have been big draws for the company.

Triple H in fact did this to Orton. Give him the belt just so he can say "See...he cant draw".

Well I think the numbers don't hold to well for Triple H either.

In the end Triple H did not save wrestling. All he did was add on to the misery and give us on the Internet something to complain about.





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Since: 3.11.02
From: BC Canada

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
    Originally posted by EastCoastAvenger
    I remember hearing the report of a joke told in the locker rooms about HHH. It went something like, "Wow, if Triple H and Stephanie ever get a divorce... Vince'll sure miss Stephanie!"

    Kinda makes me think Vince and Captain Trips (a cookie for whoever gets the reference!) are pair-bonded for life. Soulmates, if you weeeeeeel!


Steven King's The Stand. I actually read that in the summer of 2002 and created a wrestler in No Mercy named Capt. Trips.
Hurrikane757k
Salami








Since: 20.1.04
From: Fairfax, VA

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.19
    Originally posted by Dr. Ed Powers
    Triple H's dominance is what's keeping wrestling alive in the joke we all know as sports entertainment.

    Triple H rescued wrestling. He valued the world title in an era when titles were being passed around left and right. Yet at the same time, Triple H can be a strong champ and put over younger stars, i.e. Shelton Benjamin. The man gives back to the business.

    He handpicked two young wrestlers for his Evolution stable, and who are the two brightest stars in wrestling? Mr. Batista and Mr. Orton.

    I'd rather have Triple H hold on to the title for the next twenty years than have Vince win it. Oh yeah, too late he already has.

    Wrestling was on life support and the wrestlers were becoming less and less like athletes. Instead, they became fat-out-of-shape-stuntmen who had to wear cover-ups like sweats, jerseys and t-shirts when wrestling. What happened to looking like an athlete? Triple H at one point had the best body in the business and it's no coincidence that his proteges Orton and Batista have physiques that rank in the top 5.

    Triple H is the only reason one can be proud to be a wrestling fan.

    He Rules All.


I didn't know that Ric Flair posted here.
Dr. Ed Powers
Longanisa
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Since: 1.10.04
From: Los Angeles

Since last post: 3508 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.74
What did I get myself into? All this Triple HHHate. Well, let me try to explain some of the statements I made. When I say Triple H saved wrestling, I was trying to say that wrestling became nothing but shock tv featuring garbage wrestling. The science of the "sport" was becoming extinct. Here comes HHH, in nothing but black tights and boots. He didn't need a flashy costume or resort to high spot after high spot to represent wrestling. The man comes back from a torn quad and is rocked up like a mother. Man, to be yoked up as much as he was tells you this man has DEDICATION.

He upgrades his out-of-ring persona by emulating his hero, Ric Flair. He puts together a top-notch stable that creates a spot for Flair to remain significant in today's wrestling world. Then, he along with Flair go out and get the two top prospects to groom them for stardom. Evolution was a vehicle where four men had a chance to shine. HHH is a team player.

RVD worked way too loose and sloppy to become a main event player. Booker T. was buried by the Rock early in the botched inVasion angle and not by HHH. Kane just sucks. He sucked as Isaac Yankem. He sucked as Diesel. What? By putting a stupid mask on him, all of a sudden he's cool?

Triple is a franchise player. He was and is the MVP of the WWE. When Rock is off making movies and Austin just can't go anymore, Triple H is there busting his butt. He's like the Michael Jordan of the WWE. An MVP player in the ring and the embodiment of class as the champion out of the ring. The lear jets, the limos, everything, right down to the tailored suits. 1st class all the way.

He wasn't holding anyone down. HE WAS THAT MUCH BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE. He wasn't holding anyone down. If anything he lifted them up. Evolution breathed new life into Ric Flair. Evolution turned Randy Orton into a champion. Evolution allows Dave Batista a shot at becoming something greater than he would have ever been without them.

The guys who got buried probably deserved to get buried. Orton and Batista are not getting pushes because of Evolution. They were put in Evolution because they were worthy of being pushed.

Like I said earlier, HHH is to wrestling like what MJ is to basketball. GAME OVER.

(edited by Dr. Ed Powers on 9.10.04 0231)




"Never will be a Rockets fan even if my crybaby Lakers never get their act together." - Ed Powers
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Since: 16.2.04
From: UK

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.58
(deleted by CRZ on 9.10.04 1825)
TopTenPro
Italian
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Since: 21.3.04
From: Johnson City, TN

Since last post: 3522 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.49
Before I update the story I need to talk about this quote:

"Like I said earlier, HHH is to wrestling like what MJ is to basketball. GAME OVER"

Ask Isiah Thomas how much "MJ" helps someone, especially when it comes to an Olympic medals.

http://411mania.com/wrestling/news/newsboard.php?news_id=10464

"We reported yesterday that Pat Patterson recently spoke out about how the RAW brand is too focused on Triple H and that the brand needs to create new stars. His feelings could cause a split between he and WWE. Patterson's feeling was that Triple H has been over-pushed and has not made any top stars. With Triple H being a McMahon now, Patterson's views could end up costing him his job. It also cannot be ignored that all major WWE indicators have slumped during Triple H's reign on top. Of course, it appears that Patterson is the only one willing to tell Vince McMahon that"

If Patterson is fired what kind of message does that send to the entire WWE locker room? No matter how strange Pat's personnel life has been, Vince has stood by him, now that may all end. VKM seems misguided in this entire situation.

It makes you think, is he putting his daughter's happiness in front of a good product? HHH is great, and having a hero like Flair doesn't hurt,but HHH I have seen Ric Flair, and you sir are no Ric Flair, and this is not 1980s NWA pro wrestling. Pat Patterson is correct, HHH needs to be a less dominate part of the show.





PAM ANDERSON on being named E!'s best blonde:
"The carpet don't match the drapes!"
"... Just kidding, there is no carpet."
BigSteve
Pepperoni








Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 2791 days
Last activity: 2519 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.21
    Originally posted by Dr. Ed Powers
    What did I get myself into? All this Triple HHHate. Well, let me try to explain some of the statements I made. When I say Triple H saved wrestling, I was trying to say that wrestling became nothing but shock tv featuring garbage wrestling. The science of the "sport" was becoming extinct. Here comes HHH, in nothing but black tights and boots. He didn't need a flashy costume or resort to high spot after high spot to represent wrestling. The man comes back from a torn quad and is rocked up like a mother. Man, to be yoked up as much as he was tells you this man has DEDICATION.

    He upgrades his out-of-ring persona by emulating his hero, Ric Flair. He puts together a top-notch stable that creates a spot for Flair to remain significant in today's wrestling world. Then, he along with Flair go out and get the two top prospects to groom them for stardom. Evolution was a vehicle where four men had a chance to shine. HHH is a team player.

    RVD worked way too loose and sloppy to become a main event player. Booker T. was buried by the Rock early in the botched inVasion angle and not by HHH. Kane just sucks. He sucked as Isaac Yankem. He sucked as Diesel. What? By putting a stupid mask on him, all of a sudden he's cool?

    Triple is a franchise player. He was and is the MVP of the WWE. When Rock is off making movies and Austin just can't go anymore, Triple H is there busting his butt. He's like the Michael Jordan of the WWE. An MVP player in the ring and the embodiment of class as the champion out of the ring. The lear jets, the limos, everything, right down to the tailored suits. 1st class all the way.

    He wasn't holding anyone down. HE WAS THAT MUCH BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE. He wasn't holding anyone down. If anything he lifted them up. Evolution breathed new life into Ric Flair. Evolution turned Randy Orton into a champion. Evolution allows Dave Batista a shot at becoming something greater than he would have ever been without them.

    The guys who got buried probably deserved to get buried. Orton and Batista are not getting pushes because of Evolution. They were put in Evolution because they were worthy of being pushed.

    Like I said earlier, HHH is to wrestling like what MJ is to basketball. GAME OVER.

    (edited by Dr. Ed Powers on 9.10.04 0231)


Although I know you're just talking crap now, let me respond thusly:

Having black boots and not doing high spots is not a good thing. It harkens back to the days of Lou Thesz but not in a good way. It shows how boring Trips is at times.

Flair, the greatest ever, will never need HHH or Vinnnie Mac or anyone else to help him remain significant. In any field, a man who has done as much as Flair will always be remembered.

OK, fans don't care if RVD "works sloppy". If you've watched any WWE, you know he's way over ( and I don't even really like him.) The Rock didn't bury Booker. The Rock hasn't buried anyone ever. Either way, Booker was still over at WM XIX, but Hunter didn't job the title to him. And Kane? Kane has been around for six years, more over than ever now, and to say he's not over based on a gimmick he had 9 years ago is so stupid.

And no, considering there has been 100 years of pro wrestling in this country, HHH is certainly NOT AT ALL analogous to MK. AT ALL. (Unless MJ was never more than the 4th or 5th best guy in his own era in the NBA.)
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 1976 days
Last activity: 1629 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.89
Whether you like HHH or not isn't really the point. Patterson didn't say to fire HHH or even to move him out of the main event. He just said that HHH is dominating the brand too much.
Too much time in his interviews. Too many plot lines involving him. Too many angles where he never jobs. Sure he loses matches but then he wins the rematch the next month and buries his opponent or just ignores them like Benoit.
To me HHH is even more stale the SCSA was in his WHAT phase. Not exactly boring but we have seen this all 20 times before.
Now VKM is the boss. He can do what he wants. It is Patterson's job to tell the boss what he thinks need to be done. Now Vince needs to decide what he is going to do.



Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.13
The real issue here, since there have been thousands of Triple H debates over the last couple years, is Patterson saying this. I can't see Vince dropping Pat like a ton of bricks simply because he said Triple H is too overpushed. This is Pat Patterson, ladies and gentlemen, say what you will about Trips being burrowed in Vince's behind (and he is), but you can't deny the fact that Patterson has been McMahon's right hand for many years. I would venture to guess that Vince regards Pat's opinions very, very highly. The other "stooges" may have less cause to trust that Vince would tolerate their honesty if it conflicted with his views, but Pat is somewhat above this.

This man was accused of sexual assaulting members of the roster, offering them pushes for sexual favours and was also suspected of having sex with underage boys. Whether these accusations are true or not, and many wrestlers have can attest to at least the former being likely, the point is that Vince took him back. Despite all the indrecibly negative attention that could draw to him, Pat meant enough to Vince that he was willing to tough it out just to have Patterson on board.

Also to Ed Powers, couple notes. First of all, it's the booking that allows anyone to be perceived as a star. Whether Evolution came around or not, if Orton or Batista are booked as ahead of the pack, that is how they attain such status. It has nothing to do with Triple H. Business went down with his elevation, so that argument is terribly weak. And it's not just whether he jobs that makes people question him as a team player, it's his immoveable main event position. As soon as Benoit was away from Triple H, he was moved back down to the mid-card, World title and all. Even Orton/Benoit was about Triple H, it was a set-up for Trips/Orton. That's not being a team player.

And the title is not a prop. It's an honour for which all the guys on the roster are shooting, the MVP award of sorts. That why we're all so happy when someone who really deserves it, like a Benoit or a Guerrero, finally gets it.



Hot Virgins-The World's Most Steadily Shrinking Commodity
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 3507 days
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.46
TopTen Pro, that HHH is not Ric Flair is perhaps the best quote on this board in the last year. That has been copied into my book of quotes, to you sir, I tip my hat and say, well done.

If Patterson does get fired over this and then Vince has lost his damn mind. Pat is saying what everyone has been saying since 2002, Raw is HHH and thats the problem. He is not a ratings bringer. Rock, Austin, Foley, and even Benoit recent title reigns have brought in the most viewers and has been the most consistant. Raw was getting at least 4s and the occasional 5 or 6 when Rock showed up. I say they put the title on Benoit. He has been a rock in the ratings and in the locker room. Its time for the era of HHH is Raw to be over. It was over after the necrophilla angle and should have been totally over with Booker T at Wrestlemania XIX. There is nothing new or interesting to do with HHH and Orton's chase is a pot luck of what Austin, Rock and Foley used to do. I say let Benoit have the title then turn HBK, Edge and then Orton. Of course, the real problem will always be HHH in the title picture. Its a lose/lose situation and I'm very proud of Pat for having the guts to tell Vince the truth, HHH is not the man.
SlipperyPete
Bauerwurst








Since: 13.8.04

Since last post: 3550 days
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.58
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    The real issue here, since there have been thousands of Triple H debates over the last couple years, is Patterson saying this.
The real issue here is that PWInsider.com is saying this and everyone seems to believe it right away, even though that site has the news reporting credibility of Honky Tonk Man. I would like to hear if someone else is backing this story before thinking about it too heavily.

(edited by SlipperyPete on 9.10.04 2012)
Packman V2
Bratwurst








Since: 16.3.04
From: Albuquerque, NM

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Y!:
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.93
Now I don't wanna knock HHH, but lemme say this. Ever since Tivo, I get Raw watched in a lot quicker time. I attribute this to the ability to fast forward through Commercials, most Diva angles/matches, and last and certainly not least, HHH's long, drawn out, no end in sight, bore a man to tears promo. His act is stale, and the biggest plus that myself and I think other fans were looking forward to, was him taking the hiatus to do whatever movie, yet he still showed up.





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