Rank how you feel these Jedi/Sith rank in power... each at his zenith: Yoda, Emperor, Obi Wan, Qui Gon, Maul, Vader, Luke, Dooku, Windu
My picks are as follows:
Yoda The Emperor Dooku Vader Windu Obi-Wan Qui-Gon Maul Luke
Yoda has to be on top b/c I don't think we'll ever see him as his peak, butwhat we see is just awesome. The emperor is next b/c he's the fucking emperor. Dooku was pretty badass and gave Yoda a run for his money. Vader is Vader, but I think the top three were too good for him (plus, Dooku kickedhis ass when he was Anakin w/o breaking a sweat, although I could be provenworng in Ep. III). Windu seems more badass than Obi Wan, though that could just be Sam L. Obi Wan lived much longer what Qui Gon and I think an older Kenobi was much more powerful than Qui Gon was anyway. Maul was a big disappointment, but nothing compared to the absolute pussy Luke was as a Jedi.
Yes, but Vader's going to kill Dooku to become Palpatine/Sidious's new apprentice in Episode III, so that's got to count for something. (not a spoiler - just obvious). And, under the same token, Maul killed Qui-Gon, right?
EDIT: Yeah, and plus he's Darth fucking Vader!
(edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 29.8.02 1551)
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I can't believe I'm actually doing this, but I'll challenge your order, and even attempt to use logic (in a science fiction universe no less).
First, when you ask how they rank in power, I assume you're talking about combat, since that's the only clear measure the audience sees.
Second, I can only conjecture as to the abilities of a few characters at their "zenith". For example, we see little of Emperor Palpatine and Yoda in battle. Also, Luke has received little training compared to the others, so I'm assuming he has greater potential than we see in the original trilogy.
Third, I am disregarding all of the Star Wars universe except the movies, because (1) Most of the books read like fan fiction and (2) Lucas clearly disregards other writers' work as not binding, since he's already defied several of their premises in his last two movies.
Okay, let's categorize a few of the subjects. Emperor Palpatine, Yoda, and Windu are clearly in the "Master" category. One can also make a case for Qui-Gon being there (Obi-Wan said he would be on the counsel if he would just go along with them), but going with assumption #1 above, he doesn't cut it since he was defeated by Maul. Dooku, however, seemed to be elevated above the rank-and-file Jedi Knight.
Maul and Obi-Wan are clearly below this tier. Neither had the abilities to do combat with a master.
The Skywalkers are a separate category to me. Clearly, Anakin is supposed to have the most potential of any being in the galaxy. The fact that he is manipulated by Palpatine in future years doesn't necessarily mean that he wasn't as powerful. He obviously thought that, along with Luke, he could overthrow the Emperor (see Empire Strikes Back. Also, we have yet to see him at his prime. He's still young in Episode II (though he held his own against Dooku for a while), and his body had been decimated by the time Episode IV takes place. Still, he is able to wipe out the Jedi Order. That's not exactly a small feat. I'm also guessing he takes Dooku's place in Episode III by destroying him.
Luke is also a special case. His training is abbreviated, but Obi-wan and Yoda still think he has the ability to overthrow Vader and Palpatine. In fact, Palpatine only got him after he overpowered his father and threw away his weapon.
Anakin/Vader Luke (This assumes his abilities are not yet peaked and largely based on Obi-Wan and Yoda's faith in him.) Palpatine Yoda (below Luke & Palpatine b/c he never felt able to directly challenge the Emperor, but felt Luke could) Dooku Windu Obi-Wan Maul Qui-Gon (would be higher if this went beyond fighting ability)
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luke kills his father...therefore he can not go at the bottom.
Maul does...after such hype for him, i was expecting more from him in the movie, and not being killed so quickly, or at all.
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I agree with WyldeWolf's assesment here except for two things. The first is Yoda. If we're talking about in his prime at the height of his power, Yoda should go above Palpatine. I believe the only reason Yoda never challenged the Emperor, was because he was too old to fight off both Anakin and Palpatine and his millions of stormtroopers. Remember, there was a bunch of Jedi dead from the fight with the battle droids, so the legions of stormtroopers do have an effect.
The next point is that Obi-Wan should probably be higher. While we haven't actually seen it yet, he does defeat Anakin and throw him in the lava pool (unless Lucas changes his mind) so that has to count for something. He killed Maul, beat Anakin, and then went toe-to-toe with Vader later before giving up. So Obi-Wan probably needs a higher seeding.
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Well if anyone remembers my postings on the billion page episode 2 thread I'm just gonna go off it...
Yoda belongs at the top and Obi Wan ranks above Anakin. Both Yoda and Obi could have beaten Vader and Yoda (but maybe not Obi) could have beaten the Emperor on raw power alone but that was not the role they were destined to play. They were destined to guide Luke to take his dad and the Emperor down.
And Maul managed to kill Qui Gon when he was also fighting Obi, so Darkman unquestionably bottoms out the list.
Originally posted by rikidozanluke kills his father...therefore he can not go at the bottom.
Luke didn't kill Vader - Vader killed himself by removing him helmet when Luke reawakened Anakin Skywalker inside him.
that's still good enough for me.
"Smeg off, Rimmer." Dave Lister from Red Dwarf "The Nazis had pieces of flare that they made the Jews wear." Peter Gibbons from Office Space "What's the name of the cat?" "Annoying Customer." Randel Graves from Clerks showing off his people skills
I guess I'm the ultrageek then because I actually read the Star Wars novels (Rogue Squadron, New Jedi order, etc).
Note to WyldeWolf; it's actually the opposite. The two prequals have conformed nicely with the "expanded universe". Rogue Planet, for example.
Yoda: At his peak, there is no other who can compare. The Emperor: Obviously, he nearly single handedly brought back the Sith. Darth Vader: You don't exteriminate most of the Jedi and not be powerful. Meanwhile.... Luke Skywalker: Heir to the Skywalker tradition, he's quite the accomplished warrior. Obi-wan: Trained two of the above, definitly a powerful Jedi. Dooku: Had the benifit of being taught by a jedi master and a Sith Lord. Nice combination. Windu: Lower than the rest because his character has not been fleshed out yet. Maul: Bad timing with his death, he could've been higher. Qui-gon: Lower than the rest because well... he justy isn't as powerful
If you do factor in the expanded universe, then you need to consider Jacen Solo, Kyle Katern, and Ganner Rhysode (well, at least when he was dying).
Actually, the Emperor's lightning had more to do with Vader's death than removing the mask. I forget the site I saw, but the premise was that there was so much electricity running through him (so much that his bones fluoresced) that he would have died soon anyway. Removing the mask simply sped up the process, as his suit and what was left of his mortal body were pretty much cheesed by the energy that went through him.
Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastardLuke didn't kill Vader - Vader killed himself by removing him helmet when Luke reawakened Anakin Skywalker inside him.
Not quite. From the "Jedi" script (emphasis added):
Darth Vader: Luke, help me take this mask off. Luke: But you'll die. Darth Vader: Nothing can stop that now. Just for once let me look on you with my own eyes.
Originally posted by ICEMANBut there is really no actually way to measure them except for Midiclorians.
Personally, I'm half-expecting to find out that the Jedi were only partially correct - in full truth, the Midiclorians are actually the servants of the *Dark* Side of the Force. As a result, the Jedis' search for someone with a high level of Midiclorians actually assisted the Dark Side. (I'm not the only person pushing that theory, either.)
More importantly, there's one person you haven't ranked - who hasn't received formal training, but still has potential:
Leia, daughter of Anakin, brother of Luke.
Where does she rank?
Steph
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Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastardLuke didn't kill Vader - Vader killed himself by removing him helmet when Luke reawakened Anakin Skywalker inside him.
Not quite. From the "Jedi" script (emphasis added):
Darth Vader: Luke, help me take this mask off. Luke: But you'll die. Darth Vader: Nothing can stop that now. Just for once let me look on you with my own eyes.
Originally posted by ICEMANBut there is really no actually way to measure them except for Midiclorians.
Personally, I'm half-expecting to find out that the Jedi were only partially correct - in full truth, the Midiclorians are actually the servants of the *Dark* Side of the Force. As a result, the Jedis' search for someone with a high level of Midiclorians actually assisted the Dark Side. (I'm not the only person pushing that theory, either.)
More importantly, there's one person you haven't ranked - who hasn't received formal training, but still has potential:
Leia, daughter of Anakin, brother of Luke.
Where does she rank?
Steph
The midiclorians could probably be used by the dark side.If you remember Anakin has a high count of them,almost enough for a lot of people to say that the midiclorians were what made him,he was a immaculate conception remember.
I also think that Darth Sidious/Palpatine created Anakin with the midiclorians and buried him on Tattoine to come back and train him as his apprenctice but the Jedi got to him first but Sidious knew Anakin would turn because it is his destiny.
As for the Leia thing, I think she would be ranked in the top if she actaully got trained by a Jedi but she's not so she's kinda in the middle.
And she's Luke's sister. :)
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