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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw 1056 7/21/15 (Page 2)
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Tenken347
Knackwurst








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 41 days
Last activity: 3 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.99
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
      Originally posted by geemoney
        Originally posted by Dr Unlikely


        They took their most talented guy and instead of booking an angle of "Well, Rollins is so devious and hyper-talented, maybe he can find a way to beat Brock", they made him look like an incompetent stooge for months with a planned payoff of Cena coming and saying "You're an incompetent stooge, and I was the one who spent this year beating all the super-talented indy workers, and your title is meaningless compared to me!" He pulled a classic Cena '12 on him. Ruck John Cena, man. Of all people, HHH should know better. He got over being the exact opposite of how they've booked Rollins as Champ.




      I think you may be giving WWE too much credit for thinking ahead here. I never got the impression the end-game of Cena's U.S. Title run was to put him back in the main events against Seth Rollins; rather, it seems like WWE pushed the panic button due to low ratings, causing them to (a) bring the Undertaker back to face Lesnar, leaving Rollins without a challenger for Summerslam, resulting in (b) John Cena, the one proven draw for WWE, going back in the main event/title picture.
    I agree that Cena is definitely Vince's In Case Of Emergency Break Glass option, but Taker's need to get healthy and back into shape for any match means they must have had Taker/Lesnar in their plans for more than the few weeks since that record low rating, right? Which means either they were planning on Cena/Rollins for the title match, or they really were planning on Kane/Rollins, which, is perhaps more damning in its own way.

    Either way, no matter what the plans were, they apparently involved making Rollins look like trash for months to get some combination of Kane and HHH and Stephanie over for unknowable, unfathomable reasons. There's no excusing that. And even with that damage done, salvaging it by having Cena come out and tell everyone how Rollins, and transatively, the WWE World Heavyweight Championship, are trash is equally inexcusable. I can't think of a scenario where business and ratings would be any worse off if they tried even slightly to make the new champ and "future of the company" at least look even remotely like a match for Brock and Cena.

    Anyway, weird subplot with Cena back in the title(s) picture: any title shot he gets now needs to play up that this one ties Flair. That's a pretty huge thing and it would be weird for that not to be a motivating factor now.


Actually, I think a lot of this comes straight out of the fact that Cena and the US title have been made to look very strong, and Rollins, you know, hasn't. I'd be willing to believe that the plan really was to build up the US title to drop to Kevin Owens, right up until the point where somebody realized that Cena's program was the default main event no matter where it fell on the card, and that the US title actually is more credible and important than the World title. That had to be fixed, and while I agree that probably the smart thing to do would be to, you know, start having Rollins win matches and look good, at least they're acknowledging the current state of affairs. I mean, they're not acknowledging whose fault the current state of affairs is, but then, when do they ever?


Also, other stuff. I generally like what's going on with the women so far, and they are proving me wrong (except by continually letting Brie Bella wrestle), but, and I am very serious about this, STOP CUTTING TO THE COMMENTARY DESK DURING MATCHES. I can hear everybody just fine without seeing them, and there is a match going on on the other side of the camera that maybe I'd like to watch.
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 327 days
Last activity: 327 days
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.59
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by Lexus
        Originally posted by CRZ
        1156


      7/20/2015


    Look, I'm not a scientist, ok.


It probably would have helped if the guy before you didn't post Raw 1055. Never reference that guy's thread titles for anything.

Hokienautic
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 1467 days
Last activity: 1452 days
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.87
    Originally posted by Tenken347
    Actually, I think a lot of this comes straight out of the fact that Cena and the US title have been made to look very strong, and Rollins, you know, hasn't. I'd be willing to believe that the plan really was to build up the US title to drop to Kevin Owens, right up until the point where somebody realized that Cena's program was the default main event no matter where it fell on the card, and that the US title actually is more credible and important than the World title. That had to be fixed, and while I agree that probably the smart thing to do would be to, you know, start having Rollins win matches and look good, at least they're acknowledging the current state of affairs. I mean, they're not acknowledging whose fault the current state of affairs is, but then, when do they ever?


The countdown to when Rollins costs Cena the US title starts ... now.
SKLOKAZOID
Bierwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 1692 days
Last activity: 822 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.65
Not excited about Cena/Rollins nor Taker/Lesnar, but I can't blame them for doing those matches. If Taker wants to work, seize it. If Cena's US Title matches are the hottest thing on the show, giving Cena a world title shot is a natural progression.

Also not excited about the prospects of any of those four winning either of their matches. If Rollins wins, clean or not, it's more of the same. And Cena losing clean at SummerSlam is passe now. If Cena wins, we're taking a step backward. If Lesnar beats Taker, it's status quo. If Taker beats Lesnar, it wastes the big clean Lesnar loss.

No thanks. I'd rather have had HHH vs Rollins.

Moreso than the way Rollins has been booked as champion (shitty), I just feel like his reign is directionless. If we're really heading into the "biggest" WrestleMania of all time next year, who's he going to drop it to? Is he really going to hold it all the way until then? Are they really giving Cena another run, and if so, what's the direction for that?

I really think that Roman Reigns doesn't need to be christened at WrestleMania and that it would be better for him to win the title on a PPV outside of that (like Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, The Rock, etc.) so that we're saved the long, tired, predictable Rumble Winner Challenges Champion at WrestleMania angle.

While Reigns is much more likeable now because they're pairing him up with Ambrose (like I always said they needed to) and giving him a strong character-driven feud with Wyatt, that bad juju with WrestleMania 31 is still strong. I think Rollins vs Reigns would have been a better way to go for SummerSlam, even in the middle of the Wyatt feud.

I guess if they do Cena vs Reigns for WrestleMania 32, I can see where they're going with that, but it's just so hard to figure out.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 21.7.15 1936)
RandolphCarter
Longanisa








Since: 20.2.14
From: Thataway

Since last post: 2845 days
Last activity: 2827 days
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    Sasha is on a level above everybody else now and I can only assume that once they realize it, they'll put her over strong by having Stephanie beat her at a PPV.


Sigh.

I wish what you typed was just internet-enabled snark, but it really has the ring of truth to it.



Labor creates all wealth.
InVerse
Boudin blanc








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 2046 days
Last activity: 2009 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.11
    Originally posted by RandolphCarter
    I wish what you typed was just internet-enabled snark, but it really has the ring of truth to it.


As far as I can tell, Stephanie has never won a singles match clean. She's won matches that she should have lost, but blatantly cheating is hardly burying anyone.

She's only ever had 4 PPV matches, two of which she lost and one of which was the infamous feud with Trish, in which Stephanie was the face and the correct person to win in that situation. (And even then she didn't win clean.)

The only people she's wrestled in the past 10 years are Brie Bella and Vickie Guerrero. Brie should have won the match at Summerslam last year but she obviously wasn't buried, as evident by her current place on the card.

In fact, Stephanie has only ever won 6 singles matches, all by cheating, 2 of which were against Lita in a storyline that ended up with Lita beating Stephanie for her first title reign.

So the only people Stephanie holds singles victories over who didn't get their win back are Jaqueline, Trish Stratus, Vickie Guerrero, and Brie Bella. That's not exactly burying top talent. The only argument you could possibly make would be for Trish, but that match occurred 9 months before Trish won the Women's Championship for the first time and at a point where Trish was losing more matches than she was winning. Considering how her career turned out after the match with Stephanie, I think we can safely say it didn't damage her.

So unless we're putting Jaqueline or Brie Bella out there as breakout stars, the claims of Stephanie putting herself over up coming stars is just whining for the sake of whining.
Stefonics
Frankfurter








Since: 17.3.02
From: New Jerusalem

Since last post: 2395 days
Last activity: 261 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.19
How often has she fought Ronda Rousey at WrestleMania 32 after the matches you mentioned? I generally agree that it won't go down like this, but I refuse to be surprised when it happens.

The greatest trick John Cena ever pulled was convincing the internet that it wasn't him, it was the booking.

My favorite part of the Lesnar-Taker Brawl for All was in the back when Brock took a detour on the way to jumping on the dog pile to fuck up that table. Because fuck tables.
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 1681 days
Last activity: 1520 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.36
Stephanie chewing out the guys and not eating a finisher for it is burying the talent. Honestly, as bad as HHH is at it, Steph is worse. She was not the face when facing Trish in 2001, she was obviously the heel. She is awful.



http://comicbookspotlight.wordpress.com/

Now reviewing Better Call Saul and a ton of superhero TV shows.
HMD
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 2541 days
Last activity: 2541 days
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.77
    Originally posted by InVerse
    So unless we're putting Jaqueline or Brie Bella out there as breakout stars, the claims of Stephanie putting herself over up coming stars is just whining for the sake of whining.


You've seen her promos, right? Acting like she doesn't bury he mid-card and position herself to tower over divas needlessly is just being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.



Quiet, Or Papa Spank!
Dr Unlikely
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 2171 days
Last activity: 1778 days
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.59
Just to recap the amazing Stephanie/Bellas feud, more because of how crazy it is than to make any point:

Daniel Bryan defeats The Authority at Wrestlemania 30, finally achieving his goals, except Stephanie immediately sends Kane - who is, in continuity, a satanic, sadistic, rapist with magic powers - to stalk and repeatedly attempt to abduct Bryan's wife, Brie, to manuever Bryan into a position where Kane intentionally breaks Bryan's neck in a non-match situation, forcing Bryan to vacate the WWE World Heavyweight Championship and possibly retire. She then hires Bryan's physical therapist to fabricate a story about Bryan cheating on Brie for...reasons?* Brie is upset by this and tries to stand up for the honor of both her husband and herself (again, they sent a magic devil rapist who was explicitly on their payroll after her) and faces off against Stephanie at Summerslam. Stephanie then bribes Brie's own twin sister into turning on her at Summerslam and joining The Authority, costing Brie the only shot she ever gets at Stephanie for redemption for the assaults on Brie, her husband and their marraige. Nikki then wages psychological warfare on her own twin sister on Stephanie's behalf until Brie challenges her, loses, and gives in and turns heel and joins The Authority herself. The Bellas dominate the women's division on behalf of The Authority so thoroughly that...Stephanie turns face and brings in new wrestlers to take down The Bellas, who both turned heel and joined The Authority thanks to Stephanie.

That's indeed some master-level, HHHin' shit right there. That's paying a dude to run over Austin, then beating Austin in the revenge feud so Austin has to turn heel and team up with HHH, with a dash of Katie Vick thrown in. Again, not trying to prove a point so much as I really wanted to see that written out again.

Though, yeah, if there's even a chance Rousey wrestles or seconds someone at WM32, it's nuts that you don't try to build up a younger, active wrestler (say Ric Flair's daughter?) to potentially get a rub, make money and get crossover exposure out of it.

*Note: We never got closure on this, so maybe we have to give Stephanie the benefit of the doubt and assume that Daniel Bryan is, in fact, a kayfabe scumbag philanderer who deserved to have his neck broken in an unsanctioned assault by a demonic super-rapist. 50/50 on this one, tie goes to the owner!
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 2984 days
Last activity: 2562 days
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.24
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    As fun as the pull apart was Cesaro, Rusev and especially Owens should not have been part of it especially if Randy Orton doesn't have to be.


I've considered this. Say you're Kevin Steen. Not only are you are great wrestler, you are also a fan of wrestling. When you're a kid, you're dreaming about wrestling the heroes and baddies of the day, including the Undertaker.

Now, you are a WWE Superstar. You PROBABLY should've had your greatest victory last night, but instead for whatever reason you were booked to tap out. Maybe you're a bit sore about it and maybe you're not. Hey, tonight you're in the main event on Raw, so that's pretty cool, at least.

Before the show, word gets around that they are going to send all (or most) of the wrestlers out there to be in the ring to pull apart Brock Lesnar and the Undertaker. Is the Undertaker going to around too much longer? Not likely. Is Kevin Steen getting to work a match with the Undertaker before he leaves? Even less likely. That means you may have a ONCE IN A LIFETIME chance to be in the ring, interacting with the Undertaker. Do you say "my character wouldn't do that", because you'd be right. Or do you say "I'm going to do that and then I can say I was in the ring with the Undertaker", even if it is as a bit player?

I'm thinking he chose the latter. That's what most of us probably would've done.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus



"I have enough people telling me I suck online" -- lotjx




Chumpstain
Bockwurst








Since: 21.1.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 558 days
Last activity: 558 days
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.34
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    *Note: We never got closure on this, so maybe we have to give Stephanie the benefit of the doubt and assume that Daniel Bryan is, in fact, a kayfabe scumbag philanderer who deserved to have his neck broken in an unsanctioned assault by a demonic super-rapist. 50/50 on this one, tie goes to the owner!


Ah, but there was closure. Thanks to Tough Enough!

BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 327 days
Last activity: 327 days
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.59
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      As fun as the pull apart was Cesaro, Rusev and especially Owens should not have been part of it especially if Randy Orton doesn't have to be.


    I've considered this. Say you're Kevin Steen. Not only are you are great wrestler, you are also a fan of wrestling. When you're a kid, you're dreaming about wrestling the heroes and baddies of the day, including the Undertaker.

    Now, you are a WWE Superstar. You PROBABLY should've had your greatest victory last night, but instead for whatever reason you were booked to tap out. Maybe you're a bit sore about it and maybe you're not. Hey, tonight you're in the main event on Raw, so that's pretty cool, at least.

    Before the show, word gets around that they are going to send all (or most) of the wrestlers out there to be in the ring to pull apart Brock Lesnar and the Undertaker. Is the Undertaker going to around too much longer? Not likely. Is Kevin Steen getting to work a match with the Undertaker before he leaves? Even less likely. That means you may have a ONCE IN A LIFETIME chance to be in the ring, interacting with the Undertaker. Do you say "my character wouldn't do that", because you'd be right. Or do you say "I'm going to do that and then I can say I was in the ring with the Undertaker", even if it is as a bit player?

    I'm thinking he chose the latter. That's what most of us probably would've done.


It sounds nice, but he doesn't have a say one way or the other. It's not like Ambrose and Reigns were given the same options and went, nah. It's not a huge deal he was there, but he wasn't needed. It's just a small detail, but those are the things that add layers to characters which is something WWE is bad at.

I think Owens should be feuding with everybody. The guy everyone attacks first in the Rumble, the guy that gets no favors from the bosses and the guy that never finds a partner. There should be no shades of grey with Kevin Owens. Kevin Owens character should be he is a shitty person with a shitty attitude and those types of people don't break up fights.



Stefonics
Frankfurter








Since: 17.3.02
From: New Jerusalem

Since last post: 2395 days
Last activity: 261 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.19
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    tower over divas needlessly
Literally. Watch the interview with JoJo from Battleground. Those 18-inch heels weren't for any reason other than to make JoJo look small(er). She's little, but she's not the size of a toddler.
Lexus
Andouille








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

Since last post: 1462 days
Last activity: 208 days
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.29
Seriously, I liked Raw, even with all it's flaws that we could point out.

If you aren't psyched for Taker/Brock II after watching that brawl, you hated the brawl. Flat out. Or the fact it was used with Taker. As for Orton's absence, I think they're saving Brock/Orton since Randy took the mantle of youngest champ ever.

And Rusev's face turn as the ONLY GUY to stick around and lose to the face trio AND still love is old girl is potentially epic. Potentially.



"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Frown and the world laughs at you."
-Me.
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 2984 days
Last activity: 2562 days
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.24
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    It sounds nice, but he doesn't have a say one way or the other. It's not like Ambrose and Reigns were given the same options and went, nah. It's not a huge deal he was there, but he wasn't needed. It's just a small detail, but those are the things that add layers to characters which is something WWE is bad at.

    I think Owens should be feuding with everybody. The guy everyone attacks first in the Rumble, the guy that gets no favors from the bosses and the guy that never finds a partner. There should be no shades of grey with Kevin Owens. Kevin Owens character should be he is a shitty person with a shitty attitude and those types of people don't break up fights.


By "chose" I wasn't meaning HHH walked up to KO and said "hey buddy wanna be in this?" More that Owens maybe could've objected to be included but chose to just go with it. Clearly I'm just speculating and really want NXT KO to be a thing on WWE TV every week....when it looks like we might not be getting quite that.

And maybe I'm wrong but didn't the Shield take out the Undertaker for one UT's post-Mania breaks a couple of years ago?



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus



"I have enough people telling me I suck online" -- lotjx




J. Kyle
Banger








Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

Since last post: 1560 days
Last activity: 1341 days
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.36
Nous ne nous pouvons pas sortir.
    Originally posted by Stefonics
      Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
      tower over divas needlessly
    Literally. Watch the interview with JoJo from Battleground. Those 18-inch heels weren't for any reason other than to make JoJo look small(er). She's little, but she's not the size of a toddler.
Going nose to forehead (even leaning that way) to seem imposing is ridiculous chest thumping nonsense for an authority figure. Using 6 inch or more heels to do is even dumber.

She did it to heel AJ, face AJ, face Brie, and now even heel Nikki. In 3 of the listed scenarios the girl was the champion.

It's pointless and annoying because no face will ever give co-owner Steph her commeuppance and no heel has ever antagonized her and forced her to behave this way.

This Total Divas/Bellas VS the World thing has been going for years and Steph has postured/peacocked at every opportunity to everyone on either side so do I think she's putting herself over the talent regardless of whether she's wrestling a match? Fuck to the yes.



InVerse
Boudin blanc








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 2046 days
Last activity: 2009 days
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.11
    Originally posted by J. Kyle
    It's pointless and annoying because no face will ever give co-owner Steph her commeuppance and no heel has ever antagonized her and forced her to behave this way.



J. Kyle
Banger








Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

Since last post: 1560 days
Last activity: 1341 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.36
Nous ne nous pouvons pas sortir.
    Originally posted by InVerse
      Originally posted by J. Kyle
      It's pointless and annoying because no face will ever give co-owner Steph her commeuppance and no heel has ever antagonized her and forced her to behave this way.




So she gave Vickie her heat back on her way out after humiliating her. What a saint.

I must have blocked that out because there was literally no reason for that to take air time instead of a wrestling match or at the very least an angle focused on an active competitor.

Also: Vickie not a face.



InVerse
Boudin blanc








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 2046 days
Last activity: 2009 days
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.11
    Originally posted by J. Kyle
    there was literally no reason for that to take air time instead of a wrestling match or at the very least an angle focused on an active competitor.


You must have been a big fan of pre-1980s wrestling.


    Originally posted by J. Kyle
    Also: Vickie not a face.


I'm pretty sure getting attacked by multiple heels, being cheered by the crowd, and getting revenge on the evil head of the company constitutes being a face.
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It DOES say that Tank had "never done a thing in pro wrestling and looked like an out-of-work bum" when talking about reasons why it was damaging, as well as "...
- geemoney, Wrestlecrap: The Book (2004)
Related threads: Raw #1055 - WWE RAW #1154 7/6/2015 - WWE RAW #1153 6/29/2015 - More...
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