Boy, is this ever a crazy story. And now it's looking like various Republican Congressional leaders KNEW about these e-mails months ago and apparently didn't do anything.
Yikes.
Scene: Mark DeRosa's brain. The year is 2005. Part of Mark DeRosa's brain: Come on, another position change? One day it's second base, the next day right field, now it's third? Why, I oughta go into Buck's office and throw his talking fish on the floor! Other part of Mark DeRosa's brain: Hold on, other part of the brain. We're making $500,000 this year. Last year we made $725,000. All for playing a damn kids' game. This is, as they say in Brainland, a no-"us"-er. We're not going to complain. Part of Mark DeRosa's brain: You're right, dude. Let's go back to looking at this crazy porn Teixeira gave us!
Originally posted by Big BadAnd now it's looking like various Republican Congressional leaders KNEW about these e-mails months ago and apparently didn't do anything.
Yeah man, I don't see where you're getting that from. Unless you mean the part of the article that says that various Republican Congressional leaders knew about the e-mails months ago and didn't do anything.
Originally posted by Associated PressThe congressional sponsor of the page, Rep. Rodney Alexander, R-La., said he was asked by the youth's parents not to pursue the matter, so he dropped it.
Alexander said that before deciding to end his involvement, he passed on what he knew to the chairman of the House Republican campaign organization, Rep. Thomas Reynolds (news, bio, voting record), R-N.Y. Reynolds' spokesman, Carl Forti, said "We are not characterizing conversations that Congressman Reynolds may have had or may not have had with other members of Congress on that subject."
Rep. John Shimkus, R-Ill., chairman of the Page Board that oversees the congressional work-study program for high schoolers, said he did investigate but Foley falsely assured him he was only mentoring the boy. Pages are high school students who attend classes under congressional supervision and work as messengers.
The spokesman for SpeakerDennis Hastert, Ron Bonjean, said the top House Republican had not known about the allegations. Shimkus said he learned about them in late 2005.
Just as Shimkus' explanation was released, House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi of California proposed to the House that its ethics committee investigate and make a preliminary report in 10 days. She demanded to know who knew of the messages, whether Foley had other contacts with pages and when the Republican leadership was notified of Foley's conduct.
Instead, majority Republicans engineered a vote to allow the ethics panel to decide whether there should even be an investigation.
"That's my problem - I'm too frank. That's why my mother shoved me down the stairs. But then she is fat."
Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastardYeah man, I don't see where you're getting that from. Unless you mean the part of the article that says that various Republican Congressional leaders knew about the e-mails months ago and didn't do anything.
Originally posted by Associated PressThe congressional sponsor of the page, Rep. Rodney Alexander, R-La., said he was asked by the youth's parents not to pursue the matter, so he dropped it.
Alexander said that before deciding to end his involvement, he passed on what he knew to the chairman of the House Republican campaign organization, Rep. Thomas Reynolds (news, bio, voting record), R-N.Y. Reynolds' spokesman, Carl Forti, said "We are not characterizing conversations that Congressman Reynolds may have had or may not have had with other members of Congress on that subject."
Rep. John Shimkus, R-Ill., chairman of the Page Board that oversees the congressional work-study program for high schoolers, said he did investigate but Foley falsely assured him he was only mentoring the boy. Pages are high school students who attend classes under congressional supervision and work as messengers.
The spokesman for SpeakerDennis Hastert, Ron Bonjean, said the top House Republican had not known about the allegations. Shimkus said he learned about them in late 2005.
Just as Shimkus' explanation was released, House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi of California proposed to the House that its ethics committee investigate and make a preliminary report in 10 days. She demanded to know who knew of the messages, whether Foley had other contacts with pages and when the Republican leadership was notified of Foley's conduct.
Instead, majority Republicans engineered a vote to allow the ethics panel to decide whether there should even be an investigation.
Since I'm now in my third post, allow me to expand and revise my remarks.
I take issue with the "apparently didn't do anything" part of it. Both articles linked seem to indicate that more than a few things were done. Now, you can argue that maybe they shouldn't have taken the parents at their word and dropped the matter so early, and maybe they shouldn't have given Foley the benefit of doubt when he lied to them, and maybe the steps they DID take didn't go nearly far enough - and, guess what, I wouldn't argue with that. But when you start implicating entire parties with outrageous allegations like "they KNEW and they COVERED IT UP" - and that may not be what he said, but it wasn't too far off (I get that from "Yikes") -those words come off as an attempt to implicate the entire party as a bunch of paedophile sympathisers and possibly baby eaters. Fortunately, my BS alarm is set off before we get to THAT level of rhetoric, so I chipped in my two pennies.
That just reminds me that Mel Reynolds vs. Gus Savage may have been the worst choice in American politics this side of the Edwin Edwards v. David Duke race.
How ironical that someone should vandalize (en.wikipedia.org) that page in light of the Foley accusations:
Originally posted by some anonymous twit on WikipediaMelvin Jay "Mel" Reynolds is often cited as a last ditch effort by the PT right to defend the recent accusations of soliciting sex from a minor against Congressman Mark Foley of Florida. The funniest part is that the PT'er throwing this out there in a last ditch effort has actually reared a bastard child himself, delivers pizza and is known for smoking the reefer. PT represent!
Regardless, looks like this is just another talking point in the Neverending The Other Guys Are Evil And Must Be Destroyed Debate (kinda like most of Nancy Johnson's campaign ads, but that's neither here nor there). As far as the families of the people involved, let's hope it didn't go any farther than inappropriate emails.
As for the "the Republicans didn't do anything" bit, this really doesn't look good:
Originally posted by Brendan Farrington, in the original articleJust as Shimkus' explanation was released, House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi of California proposed to the House that its ethics committee investigate and make a preliminary report in 10 days. She demanded to know who knew of the messages, whether Foley had other contacts with pages and when the Republican leadership was notified of Foley's conduct.
Instead, majority Republicans engineered a vote to allow the ethics panel to decide whether there should even be an investigation.
Just from an image standpoint, I'd say you have to investigate. If whoever knew took whatever actions were called for, or were hamstrung in the process (Foley lying to Shimkus), then it clears them, but if it turns out that it's worse, then the Republicans have to act on it too.
And would there be the same response if the page was a girl? Just throwin' that out there, along with a "probably the same level, but different hyperventilation." Also, think it'll hurt the Republican chances there that his name's on the ballot, even though the votes will go to the Republican candidate and not Foley?
Maf54 (7:25:25 PM): ok Maf54 (7:25:35 PM): kep scrounging Xxxxxxxxx (7:31:51 PM): boo Maf54 (7:32:13 PM): bo dude Xxxxxxxxx (7:32:17 PM): lol Xxxxxxxxx (7:32:26 PM): whered ya go this afternoon Maf54 (7:33:39 PM): i am in pensecola...had to catch a plane Xxxxxxxxx (7:33:47 PM): oh well thats fun Maf54 (7:34:04 PM): indeed Xxxxxxxxx (7:34:14 PM): what are you doing in pensecola Maf54 (7:34:21 PM): now in my hotel room Xxxxxxxxx (7:34:39 PM): well ..like why did you go there Maf54 (7:35:02 PM): for the campaign Xxxxxxxxx (7:35:29 PM): have you officialy announced yt Maf54 (7:35:45 PM): not yet Xxxxxxxxx (7:36:06 PM): cool cool... 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Maf54 (7:48:34 PM): i am never to busy haha Xxxxxxxxx (7:48:51 PM): haha Maf54 (7:50:02 PM): or tired..helps me sleep Xxxxxxxxx (7:50:15 PM): thats true Xxxxxxxxx (7:50:36 PM): havent been having a problem with sleep though.. i just walk in the door and collapse well at least this weekend Maf54 (7:50:56 PM): i am sure Xxxxxxxxx (7:50:57 PM): i dont do it very often normally though Maf54 (7:51:11 PM): why not Maf54 (7:51:22 PM): at your age seems like it would be daily Xxxxxxxxx (7:51:57 PM): not me Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:01 PM): im not a horn dog Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:07 PM): maybe 2 or 3 times a week Maf54 (7:52:20 PM): thats a good number Maf54 (7:52:27 PM): in the shower Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:36 PM): actually usually i dont do it in the shower Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:42 PM): just cause i shower in the morning Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:47 PM): and quickly Maf54 (7:52:50 PM): in the bed Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:59 PM): i get up at 530 and am outta the house by 610 Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:03 PM): eh ya Maf54 (7:53:24 PM): on your back Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:30 PM): no face down Maf54 (7:53:32 PM): love details Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:34 PM): lol Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:36 PM): i see that Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:37 PM): lol Maf54 (7:53:39 PM): really Maf54 (7:53:54 PM): do you really do it face down Xxxxxxxxx (7:54:03 PM): ya Maf54 (7:54:13 PM): kneeling Xxxxxxxxx (7:54:31 PM): well i dont use my hand...i use the bed itself Maf54 (7:54:31 PM): where do you unload it Xxxxxxxxx (7:54:36 PM): towel Maf54 (7:54:43 PM): really Maf54 (7:55:02 PM): completely naked? 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Xxxxxxxxx (7:58:32 PM): or youll rub yourslef raw Maf54 (7:58:37 PM): well I have aa totally stiff wood now Xxxxxxxxx (7:58:40 PM): cause the towell isnt very soft Maf54 (7:58:44 PM): i bet..taht would hurt Xxxxxxxxx (7:58:50 PM): but you cn find something softer than a towell i guess Maf54 (7:58:59 PM): but it must feel great spirting on the towel Xxxxxxxxx (7:59:06 PM): ya Maf54 (7:59:29 PM): wow Maf54 (7:59:48 PM): is your little guy limp...or growing Xxxxxxxxx (7:59:54 PM): eh growing Maf54 (8:00:00 PM): hmm Maf54 (8:00:12 PM): so you got a stiff one now Xxxxxxxxx (8:00:19 PM): not that fast Xxxxxxxxx (8:00:20 PM): hey Xxxxxxxxx (8:00:32 PM): so you have a fetich Maf54 (8:00:32 PM): hey what Xxxxxxxxx (8:00:40 PM): fetish** Maf54 (8:00:43 PM): like Maf54 (8:00:53 PM): i like steamroom Maf54 (8:01:04 PM): whats yours Xxxxxxxxx (8:01:09 PM): its kinda weird Xxxxxxxxx (8:01:14 PM): lol Maf54 (8:01:21 PM): i am hard as a rock..so tell me when your reaches rock Xxxxxxxxx (8:01:23 PM): i have a cast fetish Maf54 (8:01:27 PM): well tell me Maf54 (8:01:32 PM): cast Xxxxxxxxx (8:01:44 PM): ya like...plaster cast Maf54 (8:01:49 PM): ok..so what happens Maf54 (8:01:58 PM): how does that turn you in Xxxxxxxxx (8:02:02 PM): i dont know Xxxxxxxxx (8:02:04 PM): it just does Xxxxxxxxx (8:02:08 PM): ive never had one Xxxxxxxxx (8:02:16 PM): but people that have them turn me on Xxxxxxxxx (8:02:27 PM): and if i had one it would probably turn me on Xxxxxxxxx (8:02:29 PM): beats me Xxxxxxxxx (8:02:32 PM): its kinda weird Xxxxxxxxx (8:02:50 PM): but along with that i like the whole catholic girl look....thats our schools uniform Maf54 (8:03:02 PM): ha thats wild Xxxxxxxxx (8:03:14 PM): ya but now im hard Maf54 (8:03:32 PM): me 2 Maf54 (8:03:42 PM): cast got you going Maf54 (8:03:47 PM): what you wearing Xxxxxxxxx (8:04:04 PM): normal clothes Xxxxxxxxx (8:04:09 PM): tshirt and shorts Maf54 (8:04:17 PM): um so a big buldge Xxxxxxxxx (8:04:35 PM): ya Maf54 (8:04:45 PM): um Maf54 (8:04:58 PM): love to slip them off of you Xxxxxxxxx (8:05:08 PM): haha Maf54 (8:05:53 PM): and gram the one eyed snake Maf54 (8:06:13 PM): grab Xxxxxxxxx (8:06:53 PM): not tonight...dont get to excited Maf54 (8:07:12 PM): well your hard Xxxxxxxxx (8:07:45 PM): that is true Maf54 (8:08:03 PM): and a little horny Xxxxxxxxx (8:08:11 PM): and also tru Maf54 (8:08:31 PM): get a ruler and measure it for me Xxxxxxxxx (8:08:38 PM): ive already told you that Maf54 (8:08:47 PM): tell me again Xxxxxxxxx (8:08:49 PM): 7 and 1/2 Maf54 (8:09:04 PM): ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Maf54 (8:09:08 PM): beautiful Xxxxxxxxx (8:09:38 PM): lol Maf54 (8:09:44 PM): thats a great size Xxxxxxxxx (8:10:00 PM): thank you Maf54 (8:10:22 PM): still stiff Xxxxxxxxx (8:10:28 PM): ya Maf54 (8:10:40 PM): take it out Xxxxxxxxx (8:10:54 PM): brb...my mom is yelling Maf54 (8:11:06 PM): ok Xxxxxxxxx (8:14:02 PM): back Maf54 (8:14:37 PM): cool hope se didnt see any thing Xxxxxxxxx (8:14:54 PM): no no Xxxxxxxxx (8:14:59 PM): she is computer dumb though Xxxxxxxxx (8:15:01 PM): it makes me so mad Maf54 (8:15:04 PM): good Maf54 (8:15:08 PM): haha Maf54 (8:15:11 PM): why Xxxxxxxxx (8:15:23 PM): cause she cant do anything Maf54 (8:15:31 PM): oh well Xxxxxxxxx (8:15:41 PM): she couldnt figure out how to download a file from an email and open it Maf54 (8:15:53 PM): haha Xxxxxxxxx (8:16:14 PM): and she only does it like a million times a day Xxxxxxxxx (8:16:16 PM): oh well Xxxxxxxxx (8:16:18 PM): whatever Xxxxxxxxx (8:16:53 PM): well i better go finish my hw...i just found out from a friend that i have to finish reading and notating a book for AP english Maf54 signed off at 8:17:43 PM.
Here's the part I dont understand: If you're an adult male in a high-profile position of power, and you enjoy the company of young boys, why on earth would you flirt & hit on said young boys ONLINE of all places? You know, where they can always save everything you say for as long as they want & release them to whoever, whenever they want???
Unethical, gross, criminal, call it whatever you want. It's just plain DUMB to me.
Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreezeYou know, where they can always save everything you say for as long as they want & release them to whoever, whenever they want??
Really? And here I thought the internet was just a series of tubes!!
"Oh my God! They have a shit-load of Cockapoo stuff!" -Jennifer's greatest quote... ever.
Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreezeHere's the part I dont understand: If you're an adult male in a high-profile position of power, and you enjoy the company of young boys, why on earth would you flirt & hit on said young boys ONLINE of all places? You know, where they can always save everything you say for as long as they want & release them to whoever, whenever they want???
Unethical, gross, criminal, call it whatever you want. It's just plain DUMB to me.
Because they are in positions of power. This is where both parties are the same. You think that because of your position you can get away with anything and indeed are entitled to do whatever you want. Dumb, I agree, but look how long he got wawy with this crap.
I'm just as disturbed by the fact that you can reach that level of power, but your spelling and grammar can be that bad. I know they're only IMs, but, still, have some pride and hit on the teenagers in the Queen's English!
Obviously, the whole situation is just horrible. I agree that it's not a partisan issue. Should the Republican leadership have done something sooner? Almost certainly. Would the Democrats have behaved any better had it been one of theirs? I don't see any evidence of that. Both sides are prone to cover for their own and look the other way when they can. It's struck me that, especially in extremely partisan environment we've had over the last few years, the party will excuse anything so long as they keep their seat. Good guys and bad guys are often defined more by the R or D listed after their name than by anything they actually do. And that's just sad.
(edited by GodEatGod on 3.10.06 1534) "Never piss off a hawk with a blowgun" - Conan O'Brien
One of the things that makes me sad about this situation is that the Dems are going to completely politicize this whole thing. They're going to take full advantage of this and try to win the elections in November based on this and probably run a few campaigns saying, "Republicans BAD! They protect child molestors more than children!" The victims don't need anymore attention. Haven't they been traumatized enough without having a giant spotlight placed on them? They have plenty of other issues that they can win on, but leave these poor kids alone.
Of course, if the Republicans are dumb enough to actually protect a CHILD SEX PREDATOR, then they deserve whatever they've got coming.
But at least they aren't like Matt Drudge, who had the absolute gall to BLAME THE KIDS THEMSELVES for this whole thing!
(edited by It's False on 3.10.06 1246) TEN YEARS AGO IN WRESTLING HISTORY: SEPTEMBER 1996 WWF: Shawn Michaels d. Mankind at Mind Games, one of the 90's best matches. Also, some guy named Steve Austin made it his personal mission to bring Bret Hart back to the ring.
WCW: The nWo prevailed in War Games with the help of a Fake Sting. The real Sting walked out on WCW, kicking off one of the biggest angles in the company's history.
Originally posted by It's FalseOne of the things that makes me sad about this situation is that the Dems are going to completely politicize this whole thing. They're going to take full advantage of this and try to win the elections in November based on this and probably run a few campaigns saying, "Republicans BAD!
Why does it make you sad? Its EXACTLY what the Republicans would do. Everytime the GOP gets caught doing something stupid, everyone always say "the Democrats shouldnt politicize this." The Republicans have risen to power and stayed there by jumping on every single Democrat mistake and running with it.
If it happens in Washinton its political. Thats the way it is.
"I could be wrong, but I doubt it"---Charles Barkley
If it happens in Washinton its political. Thats the way it is.
Very true. Although it plays out a lot different than what people seem to think.
Originally posted by It's False
One of the things that makes me sad about this situation is that the Dems are going to completely politicize this whole thing. They're going to take full advantage of this and try to win the elections in November based on this and probably run a few campaigns saying, "Republicans BAD! They protect child molestors more than children!"
Why don't you wait for this to actually, you know, HAPPEN before you start setting it up as a straw man to knock down?
It's because it won't. Not because Dems are so moral or high-grounded or anything, but because they don't need to. The story in every newspaper basically boils down to "did the GOP protect a child molester?" Maybe not literally, but it sures comes across like that to your average paranoid suburban mother. So why should the dems risk anything by saying it themselves? If they were to try anything close, the GOP has stuff just like what you've posted above all ready to go, I'm sure (heck, you do).
The game at this point is running out the clock. The dems are set up nicely for the elections. The Republicans have a limited amount of time to get some traction. Having to play defense over something stupid might not damage them so much, but the important thing it does is use up time and headline space. The big headline now is a scandel involving a Republican. At best, it's a distraction that doesn't make the GOP look good. For democrats, that's more than a good enough story to be on the front page. The most "politiking" the dems will do is maybe raise a couple questions or leak a couple thing at opportune times to try and keep the story going as long as they can. They certainly won't try anything remotely direct, like a TV ad based on it.
Man's most valuable trait is a judicious sense of what not to believe. - Euripides
This could be bad for the GOP. The implication that Hastert's office knew, and that they've lied about the timeline of events, is the sort of thing that could really keep this spinning for quite a while. Not what the GOP needed one month before the midterm elections.
The one counter-spin I could see to this which could haunt the Dems would be if this incident, followed by Foley outing himself, would be if it allowed the right to whip the focus of the election towards gays and gay rights. If in the last month the same groups that were able to get the 2004 focus so squarely on gay marriage could mobilize the same energy to work against gays and their Dem enablers, and use Foley as an example of what "tolerance" begets, perhaps it could get a lot of the rather disaffected right wing out to the polls en masse.
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It's a bit sad really, but there you go: http://salsa.wiredforchange.com/o/1590/t/2705/blog/comments.jsp?key=346&blog_entry_KEY=21129&t= One of the comments on this page: