Am I the only one who has been REALLY impressed with Maven thus far? I think he has done a great job adjusting to the WWF, and I see a lot of potential for him to be real good real soon. He still makes some mistakes (like falling of the ring apron in his match against Raven on Smackdown), but they are expected at this point in his career.
My question is, does anyone think he has the chance to be a big star some dao? Or will the "stupid rookie who shouldn't even be here" stigma be too much to overcome?
That match with Jericho several weeks back made a believer out of me.
I think it will take a long time for him to overcome the Tough Enough...stigma? I don't know what to call it. But it's like any other wrestler who becomes known for a gimmick and then gets stuck in it. I feel like they'll be able to use the whole "rookie" thing in matches for quite a while--and I think it will get more interesting when the winner of TE2 is put into the mix.
That's one argument. The other is that they have an over guy whose heat will evaporate if they just leave him to rot in one of the minor leagues. My view is that they did right by capitalising on his face heat following TE, rather than simply sticking him in OVW or wherever and wasting that ready-made overness.
the argument that there are more talented and deserving guys than maven in the developmental leagues doesn't hold water for me.
their situation just isn't the same as maven's. i guess you could say the wwf's put as much effort into them as they have maven, but he's more high profile. they showed a bunch of his training on mtv, so on and so forth.
to me, maven is the wrestling fan who made it. he's easier to identify with for the average fan than, say, ron waterman. it's a unique gimmick and they're using him the right way.
from what i've seen out of him, his heart is in the right place and he has the drive to make it. barring something very unfortunate happening, i have no problems envisioning him shake his rookie image in three years and get to main event level in ten years or so.
It's just you against the group mind. I like weiners.
I'd agree. He is the "average Joe" who just happened to make it and so the fans understand him a little bit better. There likely are more talented guys in development, but Maven earned his shot, he seems to be doing well, and the WWF would be foolish not to use him. Heck, that's why Tough Enough was created, right?
(edited by Punkinhed on 30.3.02 1724)
"Feed soda pop to the thirsty pigs."
"A man runs, somebody shoots at him."
I can see Maven as a credible European champ in a month or two. He just needs to get a little bit more time to get used to everything, but he seems to have a good future.. but that could have been said about a lot of prospects.
"My advice to you is to start drinking heavily"-John Belushi
I think Maven will be a star in the future, provided he improves a lot. It seems to me that the WWF is running with him trying because of the exposure of TE, while using him as an advertisement for TE2. But he does work in the hardcore division because he does have a viable move in the dropkick, and for the rest, he can run around and get the crap beat out of him, like the Royal Rumble. After all, he has shown that he will stand there and take anything, chair shots to the head without even attempting to block them and such. He just needs to learn some effective offense and learn to control the flow of the matches better. When he does, then I see his stock rising as a wrestler instead of an promotional experiment.
I don't know. Maven still looks very amateurish and green in the ring to me. Yeah he gets a lot of heat, but so did Rikishi. I remember before WCW died, they brought in a bunch of young, talented wrestlers from the indy circuits and what not, and they looked great in the ring and would get the crowd (albeit kind of small ones) going. However, I don't think we are going to see the likes of Jason Jett, Air Paris, Elix Skipper, Jamie Knoble, Shannon Moore, etc. for quite some time.
"It is a strange fate that we suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing." -Boromir
He needs to work with Hurricane and Storm because he looks like he could be a great addition to the CW div. He can move pretty well. I think he could be ready to take the nest step and go to the air. Storm and Hurricane both are well grounded mat wrestlers as well as flyers and Maven has the personality of a good face CW.
"My parents said I could be anything, so I became an ASSHOLE!"
I'd love to see the WWF bring out the old Marcus Alexander Bagwell gimmick for Maven. For those of you who weren't watching WCW back in 1992 (pretty much the entire world, judging by the TV ratings), they fed a green Bagwell to virtually every heel on the roster. He was the blue chipper who'd put in a good showing but eventually get his ass whupped and do the job. Maven could benefit greatly by working with some major heels and those same heels could use the clean victories (something in extremely short supply these days if you're not a face).
They could also pair him up with an experienced wrestler (a la Scorpio paired with Bagwell) to hide his lack of ring polish but still give him a chance to learn and stay visible to the fans.
And yeah, I know how Bagwell turned out... but at the time, it was a hell of a gimmick and Bagwell DID get over using it. I think Maven has a far better dedication to the business... not to mention far superior mic skills, if the Tough Enough promo contest is anything to go on.
agree with Flash on the bagwell idea. Small note to put with that is that personally i didn't think Bagwell was all that bad up until his neck injury. He was starting to get pretty solid in the ring up until. He was no Benoit but he was far from ther unwatchbel clump he is now. Maven being fed to some veterensd taing soem good bumps, learning some balance could really help him.
Once the match started the giant looked high and low, but he couldnt find Shane.Which Way did GO?
Well, I guess that's sort of what's happened with Maven and UT, except I don't think it's been in the context of an actual match.
In the old days it would have been better to give the spot to someone in the developmental leagues, but sadly, wrestling isn't the same today, and Maven can get more of a reaction than some guy who's never been on TV and whom no one has ever heard of, even if the guy can wrestle circles around Maven.
Originally posted by The Vile OneMaven still looks very amateurish and green in the ring to me.
Maven IS still amateurish and green. I mean, hey, imagine that. He's in his first year and he's still A ROOKIE??
Then there was no reason to have him blowing spots at Wrestlemania as if he were the second coming of Sabu. There are guys in HWA and (to a lesser degree)OVW who could work circles around Maven. Throwing him in garbage matches isn't the best idea, either.
Here's a fun (semi-rehtorical, I know the answer) question- where's Nidia? Getting a nose job, maybe...
Randomwrestling: Not only do we actually know who Chris Hamrick is, but we know he sucks!
Maven has one thing all these better workers don't: He's a walking advertisement for the Tough Enough series, therefore, he is worth more than 15 indy guys (no matter HOW talented) to Vince. Vinnie wants to get a return on his Tough Enough investment ASAP, and this is the way he chose to do it. If you truly have a problem with this, do what I do every time I see smothing that doesn't meet my approval: Change the channel. After all, the WWF isn't the only thing on tv from 9-11 on Monday.
There are no facts-only observational postulates in an endlessly regenerative hodgepodge of predictions. Consensus reality requires a fixed frame of reference. In a multilevel, infinite universe, there can be no fixity; thus, no absolute consensus reality. In a relativistic universe, it appears impossible to test the reliability of any expert by requiring him to agree with another expert. Both can be correct, each in his own inertial system.
Originally posted by EastCoastAvengerMaven has one thing all these better workers don't: He's a walking advertisement for the Tough Enough series, therefore, he is worth more than 15 indy guys (no matter HOW talented) to Vince. Vinnie wants to get a return on his Tough Enough investment ASAP, and this is the way he chose to do it. If you truly have a problem with this, do what I do every time I see smothing that doesn't meet my approval: Change the channel. After all, the WWF isn't the only thing on tv from 9-11 on Monday.
If you have a problem with people criticizing the product on a wrestling discussion board, just remember: Wienerville isn't the only thing to read on the internet.
That being said, I should also point out that it's not "the Maven show" and they don't announce "Maven will be on tonight from 9:45-10:03". He's usually nestled snugly into the middle of a TV segment much in the same way the caterpillar is nesteled snugly in the middle of his forehead. He's hard to get around...
Randomwrestling: Not only do we actually know who Chris Hamrick is, but we know he sucks!
I didn't say I had a problem with people criticizing the WWF, It's totally cool with me. I presented an alternative. Of course, you had to be a sarcastic schmuck and ridicule me for it. Thanks for your opinion, though...
(edited by EastCoastAvenger on 1.4.02 1648)
"I hate motherfuckers claimin' that they foldin bank
But steady talkin shit in the holding tank
First you wanna step to me
Now your ass screamin for the deputy
They send you to Charlie-Baker-Denver row
Now they runnin up in ya slow
You're gone, used to be the Don Juan
Now your name is just 'Twan
Switch it, snap it, rollin your eyes and neck
You better run a check..."
--From "Check Yo' Self"
by Ice Cube
East Coast Avenger. I always change the channel when Maven's on. I got up for some food during his match at Mania, and it was over by the time I got back. Yeah the match was that short. I've been so indifferent to WWF televison, I haven't watched smackdown for about 3 weeks, and don't even sit through RAW anymore. So at least I'm doing something about the problems I have with WWF tv.
Look its good that Maven is getting heat and all and capitalizing on it and all that. But Maven is just a fad like Rikishi. Remember how over he was? No he's barely on TV anymore. I don't see the point in pushing a crappy wrestler when he'll probably be worth spit in a few weeks or months. Kind of like the RTC and Goldust and Godfather when they came back.
"It is a strange fate that we suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing." -Boromir
I was surprised that RAW decided not to advertise Goldberg/Kane and Michaels/Orton the week before in an attempt to boost ratings... all that was advertised for the show was Jericho/Christian vs.