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The W - Pro Wrestling - Help me tell a girl why wrestlers are athletes... (Page 2)
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sonicslapshot
Linguica








Since: 26.7.04
From: Sheboygan, WI

Since last post: 6742 days
Last activity: 6723 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.23
My fiance and I had that same discussion. Then as she turned her back around, I threw a fireball at her. She was gone a week or two. I lost a "loser changes the baby's diaper" match. I am now headlinig cards with Vic Steamboat, Tony Anthony, and Oliver Humperdink



Was JT Smith really Italian?
AssDroid!
Pinkelwurst








Since: 6.1.03
From: The Jersey Shore

Since last post: 7174 days
Last activity: 7170 days
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.24
You know what would be interesting? Pro wrestling as an Olympic sport.

It would be just like pairs figure skating. Two guys go into a ring, put on a match, and the judges rate their match based on psychology and what-not. The two guys who put on the best match would get the gold medal. They could even have another division for something different like Lucha Libre. It could be like how amateur wrestling has Greco-Roman and Freestyle divisions.



Meatwad: Th-the Giants are number one.
Carl: That isn't a prediction there Meatman... that's a fact of life!
BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 6812 days
Last activity: 6721 days
ICQ:  
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.25
    Originally posted by AssDroid!
    It would be just like pairs figure skating. Two guys go into a ring, put on a match, and the judges rate their match based on psychology and what-not. The two guys who put on the best match would get the gold medal. They could even have another division for something different like Lucha Libre. It could be like how amateur wrestling has Greco-Roman and Freestyle divisions.


Given that there have been movements to add poker and bridge to the Olympics, I can honestly say there have been worse ideas. Of course, pigs will fly over the frozen tundra of hades before anyone in a position to make such a decision even takes that proposition seriously.



The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Anti_Guy
Cotechino








Since: 2.2.04
From: United States of America

Since last post: 7132 days
Last activity: 7128 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.50
I'd consider pro wrestlers athletes.

1. They run

2. They jump long distances

3. They lift heavy things (other wrestlers)

4. They compete for belts

They make a living out of wrestling. Sure, it might not be real, but they still have to be physically fit and need to do physically activity. Golf is just walking around and swinging a club, and thats considered a sport. They are also much more prone to injury than athletes of other sports. Sure, a sprained ankle or broken leg in soccer, basketball, but with pro wrestling (and sometimes contact sports like american football and rugby, and other i dont know) we have shoulder injuries, broken necks and backs, torn muscles, etc. Long as their entertaining, I dont care if its fake. Just cause its not real doesn't mean that the wrestlers are fat lazy blobs who cant walk two steps to get a beer out of the fridge.

*EDIT*
Think Olymics-wise as well. Divers compete and are considered athletes. All you need is lots of practice and they ability to pull off fancy crap. We have guys who just jump or throw a javelin, and they're considered athletes.

(edited by Anti_Guy on 27.7.04 2113)


Go ahead... make my day...
emma
Cherries > Peaches








Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 435 days
Last activity: 157 days
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.47
    Originally posted by Kane Is Ugly
    I got into this long argument tonight with a girl I know about wrestlers being athletes. She says since its "fake", they are just actors and/or stuntmen. She doesnt seem to realize they are prolly more athletes than most of the guys in the MLB and NBA.

    I cannot stand people who dont at least respect and understand the hardwork that wrestling entails. Help me make her look like an idiot.

a) She doesn't actually care. You were just having this conversation so she could yank your chain (for any of several possible reasons). Walk away. :-) (At least from this topic.)

b) Attempting to "make [any girl] look like an idiot" is not a strategy for winning friends & influencing people.

c) This is totally & entirely a semantic argument, wholly based on the definition of "athelete". You've already fallen into that trap. Brrrrappp -- you lose. Unless you are unusually qualified, you will lose a semantic argument with a woman. :-)

d) Since you're probably ignoring a-c :-)...
The preemptive position is "Of course it's not a competitive sport, but the workers are certainly doing amazingly athletic things. It requires a huge amount of skill & athleticism to do what they do & not actually damage themselves or each other -- at least hardly ever." Toss in the amount of improv necessary -- yeah, they have "set plays", but there's also lots of reacting to the situation on the fly -- which is a characteristic of many competitive sports, but not stuntwork, Cirque du Soleil, or any "exhibition sports". As a supporting point: A martial arts practitioner who competes in MMA is (presumably, by her definition) an athlete; does he cease to be an athlete if he's giving a demo or doing katas?

e) Walk away. :-)
HMD
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 2532 days
Last activity: 2532 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.30
Let's first define sport. Thanks in advance to the good people over at britannica.com

Main Entry: sport
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 a : a source of diversion : RECREATION b : sexual play c (1) : physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in

Ok, now let us first note that nowhere in this definition is there any mention of competition. You'll find this contention in keeping with Webster's running definition as well. Dictionary.com adds "often engaged in competitively", but often is not always.

Pro wrestling meets all of the aforementioned criteria. It is physical recreation, and sadly is even sometimes sexual play in the case of the divas. The position that the media and the general public take that wrestling is not a sport simply because they choose not to accept it as such does not change the fact that it meets the definition of sport. That's a judgment call.

Now, if I were you, I would ask her if she thinks racing (with any kind of car) is a sport. The physical action in racing is not primary, it's secondary. Since the drivers themselves are not performing the actions that contest victory, and are merely operating the machinery that does this, there is less of a genuine argument that racing meets
the definition of sport than pro wrestling. Race car drivers are no more directly involved than those guys who make the robots that fight each other. They are controlling the actual object "competing".

But ask me if I think drivers are athletes? You're damn right.

So yeah, first, prove to her with a dictionary that wrestling IS a sport. Then the athlete thing should fall into line.




Hot Virgins-The World's Most Steadily Shrinking Commodity
Iago
Chourico








Since: 17.2.04
From: Eugene, Oregon

Since last post: 6541 days
Last activity: 5843 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.88
    Originally posted by emma
    This is totally & entirely a semantic argument, wholly based on the definition of "athelete". You've already fallen into that trap. Brrrrappp -- you lose. Unless you are unusually qualified, you will lose a semantic argument with a woman.


It can be done. And as the topic is wrestling may I recommend an illegal object? A blow gun with a nice knock out poison.

(quoting fixed - thecubsfan)

(edited by thecubsfan on 28.7.04 0820)


W of the day 5/17/04
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 2843 days
Last activity: 1189 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.31
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    So yeah, first, prove to her with a dictionary that wrestling IS a sport. Then the athlete thing should fall into line.



Alas, from the Oxford English Dictionary....

sport

• noun 1. an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others.


and the notion that sport is not competitive and merely for pleasure is....

4. dated, entertainment; fun.

So she could have a go at arguing that wrestling should not be considered a sport under todays definition of the word.

Of course Emma's right. Entering into such debates with the fairer sex can only lead to trouble and ultimately, defeat. Even in the unlikely event that you somehow emerge victorious she won't be wowed by you mastery of the English language. The best you can hope for is that she thinks you're a pedantic know it all and never speaks to you again. Worst case scenario is she's left spiteful and with vengeance in mind, constantly waiting (at least on some subconcious level) to deliver your comeuppance in the future.

If she mentions it again and you can't get away, go for something like "it doesn't really matter either way, I still enjoy it".

That way you're not conceding defeat, but she'll hopefully still feel like her job was done. Unless of course she derives particular pleasure from riling you, in which case you may very well be screwed ;)



FleaDude
Bauerwurst








Since: 21.2.04
From: New York

Since last post: 7029 days
Last activity: 7029 days
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.16
Show her the Mick Foley DVD, or;

http://thesmartmarks.com/artman/uploads/kazarian.gif

http://vip.cybercity.dk/~dsl75370/juvi.gif

http://vip.cybercity.dk/~dsl75370/peteydriver.gif




The Lurk
Cotechino








Since: 7.6.04

Since last post: 7172 days
Last activity: 7172 days
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.59
    Originally posted by Jaguar
      Originally posted by Ringmistress
      Lurk, women and wrestling DO mix, it's just that most don't have the sack to see the overwhelming evidence.


    I think some of us may differ in what we look for in a woman...

    DEAN~! is, of course, an obvious exception.

    -Jag


Yes, yes yes.....exactly. I personally PREFER women who don't have "the sack."

Seriously though, wrestling, like football and heavy metal, is something I enjoy doing AWAY from my spouse with all my buddies. I'm not saying women shouldn't watch it or can't watch it or anything like that. Just that I prefer my wrestling-watching to be....a more fraternal thing. Of course I am a more casual fan than a lot of you here, I think, so maybe I'm in the minority on this one.



You got to cry without weeping

Talk without speaking

Scream without raising your voice
Kane Is Ugly
Kishke








Since: 14.7.03
From: Uglyville

Since last post: 5859 days
Last activity: 5845 days
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.42
This is surreal. Around The Horn on ESPN had this very question on just now. Tony Reali and 3 panelists were talking about Brock Lesnar in the NFL and asked "Are wrestlers athletes". 2 of the panelists said, YES they are, but 1 panelist and theh host (Tony) said since wrestling isn't "real", they are not athletes.

Considering so many former NFL players and college/olympic wrestlers went to pro wrestling, I would say its pretty dumb to tell them they arent athletes. But, its just funny that they brought this topic up.

BTW, if you got ESPNEWS, they replay this show at 6 PM EST.





I miss the GWF.
TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

Since last post: 5884 days
Last activity: 5884 days
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
    Originally posted by emma
    a) She doesn't actually care. You were just having this conversation so she could yank your chain (for any of several possible reasons). Walk away. :-) (At least from this topic.)

    b) Attempting to "make [any girl] look like an idiot" is not a strategy for winning friends & influencing people.

    c) This is totally & entirely a semantic argument, wholly based on the definition of "athelete". You've already fallen into that trap. Brrrrappp -- you lose. Unless you are unusually qualified, you will lose a semantic argument with a woman. :-)


Y'know, this is probably the best course of action...

Not to mention the fact that defending something that she thinks is "fake" isn't going to make you look any better. At this point, you're fighting a losing battle, no matter what information you throw up there. Pick your battles wisely; I don't think this is the best battle.
Anti_Guy
Cotechino








Since: 2.2.04
From: United States of America

Since last post: 7132 days
Last activity: 7128 days
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.53
I wonder whats worse... fighting a losing arguement w/ a girl about pro wrestlers being athletes, or friends of yours who who knows NOTHING about wrestling doing really crappy Hulk Hogan/Ric Flair/etc. impersonations?

I'd go with the impersonations.



Go ahead... make my day...
FurryHippie
Frankfurter








Since: 29.10.02
From: New York

Since last post: 6414 days
Last activity: 5102 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.82
I don't know... I mean the matches AREN'T the real competition, but I do think there is competition in wrestling. Most people believe that the belt means nothing since the matches are 'fake', but I look at it a different way. Use this analogy: Getting the lead in a play. Say you're chosen to play Julius Caeser in the play "Caeser". You're ecstatic. You got the lead. The people running the show have decided that you're the one they want to focus the show around. It means something, and it's a huge honor. I compare that with the belt. It shows that you have worked hard at your craft (aka better than your 'competition'). The people in charge have chosen to make YOU the person to build the company around. It's not just picking somebody out of a hat for the belt, it's looking at who has the best ability overall (crowd reaction, charisma, in-ring ability, etc) to carry the show. And if they pick a wrong champion, it shows and things go haywire. So there IS incentive there. You're basically competing for a 'spot'. Of course, there are wrestlers who don't give a damn as long as they get paid...the belt IS fake to them...but then again...doesn't that sound a lot like the NBA, MLB, NFL, etc?

Oh, and these guys are athletes. It's absolutely absurd to watch these guys perform, learn about their training regimen, the amazing physical shape they're in...and then say 'they're not athletes'. Not only are they athletes, but I dare you to find a "real" athlete in better shape than a Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels in their primes. And find me a Major Leaguer who can run ropes for 60 minutes, cut himself open, fall on his back about a thousand times, and then snap off a half dozen Germans. The bottom line is, wrestlers (a MAJORITY, that is) can do much more athletic things than other 'real' athletes. If some braindead girl can watch a Rey Mysterio match and tell me he's not an athlete, there's just no reason to even try and continue the conversation.

And for the matches being fake, so it's not a sport thing - I see it as a sport exhibition. Two guys are out there putting on an athletic show. It's like figure skating or dancing (just a little rougher on the neck). People just don't have respect for wrestling because of the stigma. They don't see how it's grown and how more relevant it is, in terms of how they treat the product and the wrestlers (aka, shows like Confidential, pieces about a wrestler's real life, etc). It's like the old phrase from Vince, some people just don't "get it". Some people grasp the fact that everybody knows it's a work, and some people will always still say "oh come on that's fake - I'm supposed to believe he really was buried and came back from the dead?? This is stupid, I'm not watching".

(edited by FurryHippie on 28.7.04 1940)
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 928 days
Last activity: 928 days
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.31
Rhythmic gymnatics, Synchronized swimming, ballroom dancing, archery, weight lifting, table tennis, and badmitton are all olympic "sports".

Pro Wrestlers posses agility, physical endurance, physical coordination, balance, and at times some extreme cariovascular conditioning.

While they dont compete, per se, they do use all the above listed traits to entertain.



Thank you for your irrelevant opinion.

Doe, Ray, Me, Fa, So, La, TITO SANTANA!
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 2926 days
Last activity: 2187 days
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.73
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Rhythmic gymnatics, Synchronized swimming, ballroom dancing, archery, weight lifting, table tennis, and badmitton are all olympic "sports".

    Pro Wrestlers posses agility, physical endurance, physical coordination, balance, and at times some extreme cariovascular conditioning.

    While they dont compete, per se, they do use all the above listed traits to entertain.


Ignoring the 'competing' part about sports is like ignoring the 'numbers' part of math.

I've heard arguments that wrestlers are athletes because they lift heavy objects, jump, they used to be athletes, they move, and act like in a play. Any number of jobs do those things. Does working construction count as a sport now because they lift things? Is Ben Affleck an athlete because monkeys find him entertaining while he's acting? If I hire a guy who used to play football to work in my kitchen, is my kitchen now a sport? No. They all lack the competition to see who's the best. Having a fake title belt that was given to you based on finacial reasons by guys in a boardroom with no input from you or any of your peers doesn't count. It's no different than an 'employee of the month' tag at most jobs.

Without competition to see who wins in pro-wrestling, you cannot just paint a brush over in it saying 'they are athletes' like you can with things like Baseball, where even if they suck, they're still athletes, just sucky ones. What pro-wrestling is now is a traveling show that's evolved into having heathier, more athletic people in it than ever before, but it's still lacking the part where they're competing in any measurable way at all.


Tribal Prophet
drjayphd
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 22.4.02
From: New Hampshire

Since last post: 756 days
Last activity: 341 days
ICQ:  
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.55
You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.

"His tits are at least REAL." (Kane Is Ugly)


    Originally posted by Kane Is Ugly
    This is surreal. Around The Horn on ESPN had this very question on just now. Tony Reali and 3 panelists were talking about Brock Lesnar in the NFL and asked "Are wrestlers athletes". 2 of the panelists said, YES they are, but 1 panelist and theh host (Tony) said since wrestling isn't "real", they are not athletes.

    Considering so many former NFL players and college/olympic wrestlers went to pro wrestling, I would say its pretty dumb to tell them they arent athletes. But, its just funny that they brought this topic up.

    BTW, if you got ESPNEWS, they replay this show at 6 PM EST.



I thought Tony and the other "no" panelist at least conceded that they're doing athletic things. At that point, they were splitting enough hairs to give Tony Kornheiser a full head. Speaking of which, I wish that they got into that angle of it on PTI. It was Stephen A. "Slava MedvedENKO!" Smith and the useless Skip Bayless, and all they talked about was if Brock'd record a sack in the NFL this season (they agreed he probably would, but not against a QB like Vick).



DEAN's Nuggets of Wisdom:

"I don't want him to die. I just want him to NEED my PEE." (as seen here)
Whitebacon
Banger








Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

Since last post: 110 days
Last activity: 10 days
ICQ:  
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.93
    Originally posted by drjayphd
    It was Stephen A. "Slava MedvedENKO!" Smith and the useless Skip Bayless, and all they talked about was if Brock'd record a sack in the NFL this season (they agreed he probably would, but not against a QB like Vick).


Those two again today? I'm glad I missed it. I didn't even bother watching the show yesterday because I saw those two opening the show. I suppose I should read the Affirmation, Baby blog more regularly.



Girthy
Anti_Guy
Cotechino








Since: 2.2.04
From: United States of America

Since last post: 7132 days
Last activity: 7128 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.53
Just a question: Do you watch wrestling for the 'sports' content or for the entertainment value?

I watch for entertainment. Its fake, so what? Its interesting to watch, unless the wrestlers in the match have no charisma/personal magnetism and/or could not properly do their jobs for their souls.\

*EDIT*
And also if the angles SUCK...
And would you consider a golfer an athlete?

(edited by Anti_Guy on 29.7.04 1214)

Go ahead... make my day...
Quezzy
Scrapple








Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1899 days
Last activity: 1898 days
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.89
Thank you Furry Hippie for finally bringing some intelligence to the conversation. The argument that wrestlers don't compete is bullshit. They compete for a lot. First of all, like Furry said, they compete to get the belt, the matches are predetermined but you still have to prove your worth to get the belt. So you're competing against your peers to be the best in the business, to be the greatest ever, just like anyone in any other sport. Plus you're competing against other federations. You want to put on a good match to make people watch so they watch your show, and not the other. Chris Benoit competes by putting on great match after great match. Barry Bonds competes to be the best player in baseball. Hell I compete at school to make the best grades because it will look good on my resume, and soon I'll be competing for a job. SO does that make me an athlete. No. (Not to say that I"m not, that's debateable...or maybe it isn't). Ben Affleck (since Tribal Prophet brought him up) is competing for roles in a movie, is that a competition? Yes. Does that make him an athlete? No. THe point is where it is competition is not a good way of deciding who is an athlete. We are all competing at something right now. We are competing in a debate. What should be the criteria for an athlete then? Are the ATLETic. That's where the word comes from. Athletic....athlete-like. If they do things that are athletic than they are athletes.

And don't listen to the people who say you can't win an argument with a woman. Will they change thier mind? Probably not, because most women are either stupid or stubborn, but that doesn't mean you "lost the argument". If you made better points than them and all they can reply is "whatever" or "i STILL don't think it's a sport" then you won the argument unless she says something intelligent to back up her theories, which is unlikely.

Oh and if Tony Reali says it isn't a sport then I'm going to assume it is.





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