Let us look at some of the decisions in regards to contenders for World Titles since last Rumble.
Trip: Out for 8 months. First match back wins Rumble to get World Title shot at Mania. Wins belt.
Hogan: Away from fed for a decade. Testified against Vince in federal court (this shows that Austin won't be buried when he returns, because if anyone deserved to be buried, it was Hogan). First match after over a year off against Flex at Mania. Loses, but becomes #1 Contender. Wins belt next PPV.
Flex: Takes a few months off. Returns and is automatically placed in a three way match for the World Title. In only his second match upon his return (maybe 3rd, can't remember exactly), wins World Title.
Undertaker: Jumps to SD, and automatically is placed in #1 Contender's match against wrestlers who already competed. Wins match, in world title match next 2 ppv's.
Trip: Loses to Michaels at Summerslam. Goes over Taker the next night. Awarded World Title belt next week on RAW.
Big Slug: Garbage on RAW. Jumps to SD after beating 3MW, and because he beats up Taker, becomes #1 Contender. Wins Belt at Survivor Series.
Scott Steiner: Has not worked as a face as a singles wrestler in a decade. Except for a few matches in WWA, has not worked a match in 21 months. Without even a match to show he can work WWF/E style, becomes #1 contender for Rumble.
Thus, its better to come back from years off (unless your Benoit, then you job to the Bubba and Spike in a tables match in your first match) or to show up on another show in becoming a main eventer, than it is to work through the ranks in most instances.
edit: And of course, who can forget the leader of it all, HBK. 1 match in the WWF/E in 4 and a half years, and he goes over 5 guys to win the World Title.
(edited by redsoxnation on 17.12.02 1226) I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
Remember, Rock did it once before, too. During the Invasion, he returned from filming the Scorpion King and in his second match back, won the WCW title at Summerslam.
Originally posted by Parts UnknownThey just want to capitalize on the momentum of returning stars. It's easy to understand - fans love big comebacks.
For a Flex, Hogan, Trip (at the time) and even HBK, its understandable. However, Scott Steiner was a hideous draw as WCW champ (sub 2 main event ratings for his world title matches). It just has to really make the rest of the roster feel happy though seeing guys walk in and jump to the main events, especially if they don't have to work house shows. The one thing this pattern does show is that the capitalizing on the name guys when they come back hasn't kept the fan base.
I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
The pattern will continue next year as Rock vs. Goldberg is the expected Wrestlemania main event. It just goes to show, it doesn't pay to "pay your dues."
Also, the pattern in the last year was that only ONE wrestler was elevated to main event status - Brock Lesnar. Everyone else who won the title was a previous champion.
Originally posted by skorpio17The pattern will continue next year as Rock vs. Goldberg is the expected Wrestlemania main event. It just goes to show, it doesn't pay to "pay your dues."
Also, the pattern in the last year was that only ONE wrestler was elevated to main event status - Brock Lesnar. Everyone else who won the title was a previous champion.
It doesn't pay to be a mid-carder either.
Jericho?
3 out of 5 Statisticians agree- Statistics are all bull$hit! "Pool-Boy"
Originally posted by skorpio17The pattern will continue next year as Rock vs. Goldberg is the expected Wrestlemania main event. It just goes to show, it doesn't pay to "pay your dues."
Also, the pattern in the last year was that only ONE wrestler was elevated to main event status - Brock Lesnar. Everyone else who won the title was a previous champion.
It doesn't pay to be a mid-carder either.
Jericho?
Jericho won the world title in 2001. This is encapsulating the year 2002, thus Jericho was World Champion entering the year.
I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
Originally posted by Parts UnknownThey just want to capitalize on the momentum of returning stars. It's easy to understand - fans love big comebacks.
For a Flex, Hogan, Trip (at the time) and even HBK, its understandable. However, Scott Steiner was a hideous draw as WCW champ (sub 2 main event ratings for his world title matches). It just has to really make the rest of the roster feel happy though seeing guys walk in and jump to the main events, especially if they don't have to work house shows. The one thing this pattern does show is that the capitalizing on the name guys when they come back hasn't kept the fan base.
You can't blame the Stiener title reign for Nitro's low ratings. The show was practically going respirator stlye by then. I think the only people watching were me, you, and of course Ekedolphin. I actually liked Stiener as champ way more than Nash, Hogan, Savage, Sting, DDP, and Jarrett. Him and Booker's feud and my love for self masochism were the things that kept me watching.
I think there was something posted by Keller on the Torch site that the Nitro ratings were in the mid to low 1's but would jump over a full ratings point whenever Steiner had a match.
Originally posted by fuelinjectedI think there was something posted by Keller on the Torch site that the Nitro ratings were in the mid to low 1's but would jump over a full ratings point whenever Steiner had a match.
I don't know about that. I remember distinctly a Scott Steiner/Jeff Jarrett World Title match that had a quarter hour rating under 2 in I believe February 2001. And one of the points where I started to really lose faith in WCW was in the Uncle Eric/Scott Steiner ego vehicle that was the NWO Tonight Show. At that point in '98 I thought that perhaps trouble was lurking (that, and Flair getting fucked over that summer, but thats another story). Who at that time would ever think Flair/Uncle Eric and Steiner would be in the ring for a RAW main event that involved an interview, and Flair wouldn't be speaking.
I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
Speaking as an eternal WCW fanboy, I always thought Steiner was awesome. Of course his best wrestling days are behind him, and he can be known to get a little out of control sometimes, but that zaniness is what made him so fun. I was thrilled when I knew the main event for the last WCW PPV right here in good ol' Jacksonville, FL was Steiner vs. DDP. Well, not thrilled that it was the last pay per view, but happy we at least pulled a semi-decent main event.
Treasure Planet ruled all kinds of ass. And yes, I do work for Disney but its good anyhoo.
Originally posted by skorpio17The pattern will continue next year as Rock vs. Goldberg is the expected Wrestlemania main event. It just goes to show, it doesn't pay to "pay your dues."
Also, the pattern in the last year was that only ONE wrestler was elevated to main event status - Brock Lesnar. Everyone else who won the title was a previous champion.
It doesn't pay to be a mid-carder either.
It was revoked really fast, but Rob Van Dam did have a short Undisputed WWE Championship reign. ..
I wouldn't say it's better to come back from an injury or switch shows than to work up the ranks. The only reason those people got title shots was because they are main eventers. I mean look at other guys who came back from injuries or switched shows.
Rico - stuck with the most boring tag team
Benoit - has gotten a nice feud and tag titles, so I guess he has slightly benefited.
Eddie - ok so it wasn't really an injury, but he came back he didn't get a title shot
D-Von - he switched shows too and now he's just stuck in the old Dudley schtik
Batista - having boring matches with Kane
Maven - he came back from injury and now is getting beat by Harvard Chris every week
So if you look at just the main eventers then yes that is the case, because they are main eventers. But when you take the whole company into consideration your theory is not true.
Originally posted by skorpio17The pattern will continue next year as Rock vs. Goldberg is the expected Wrestlemania main event. It just goes to show, it doesn't pay to "pay your dues."
Also, the pattern in the last year was that only ONE wrestler was elevated to main event status - Brock Lesnar. Everyone else who won the title was a previous champion.
It doesn't pay to be a mid-carder either.
It was revoked really fast, but Rob Van Dam did have a short Undisputed WWE Championship reign. ..
When was this? I think I'd remember an RVD title run.
Also, boring matches or not Batista is on his way to becoming a main eventer because he switched shows.
Originally posted by skorpio17The pattern will continue next year as Rock vs. Goldberg is the expected Wrestlemania main event. It just goes to show, it doesn't pay to "pay your dues."
Also, the pattern in the last year was that only ONE wrestler was elevated to main event status - Brock Lesnar. Everyone else who won the title was a previous champion.
It doesn't pay to be a mid-carder either.
It was revoked really fast, but Rob Van Dam did have a short Undisputed WWE Championship reign. ..
Well, according to precedents set in previous title matches (HHH vs. Jericho in 2000, for example), a decision reversal nullifies the previous decision. In other words, RVD's title reign never happened.
"I don't care what people think. People are stupid." -- Charles Barkley
Originally posted by Santa SangreYou can't blame the Stiener title reign for Nitro's low ratings. The show was practically going respirator stlye by then. I think the only people watching were me, you, and of course Ekedolphin. I actually liked Stiener as champ way more than Nash, Hogan, Savage, Sting, DDP, and Jarrett. Him and Booker's feud and my love for self masochism were the things that kept me watching.
i just feel like bringing steiner to wwe to main-event was the wrong idea for the wwe. the reason the wwf was beating out wcw for such a long time, was that wcw relied on old men & has-been wwf stars to main-event, keeping all the young guys down, whereas the wwf had new faces like the rock, hhh, and austin. i actually found the steiner-booker feud terrible (even though i DID like their last-wcw-ever championship match from a pure wrestling standpoint), in the sense that steiner was another one of the old men shoved down our throats every week, and booker was some tag team wrestler who i still wasn't buying as a main-eventer.
bringing steiner over to the wwe, to me, is the wrong move, because it just shows that they're relying on "big names" over creating new talent, just like wcw did to start their downfall.
Originally posted by Santa SangreTo me Steiner is another in a long line of operation push HHH. He will most probably follow the rule of all WCW transplants.
1 Come into WWe with huge push and main title spot. 2 Job to established star. 3 Take spot in midcard. 4 Lose all heat.
(edited by Santa Sangre on 18.12.02 0905)
Chris Benoit -Entered WWF in January 2000 with The Radicalz (Guerrero/Malenko/Saturn). -Feuded with Triple H for two weeks, turned on Foley to turn heel, feuded with Jericho & The Rock for rest of the year. -Feuded with Jericho again, then feuded with Billy Gunn, then turned face and teamed with Jericho against HHH/Austin, beating them. Feuded with Austin, got injured. -YEAR OFF -Returned, feuding and jobbing to Bubba Dudley before beating him, winning the Intercontinental Title & jumping to SmackDown!, then losing title to R.V.D. (and SmackDown). Has since feuded with any combination of Guerrero/Angle/Edge.
I don't see how Benoit jobbed and lost all his heat. I guess that's probably because Benoit IS GOD (or he left WCW on his own, dropping their title, and walking to the WWF).
Flames: 9-15-4-3
Current Coach: Al MacNeil (67) Movie Of the Week: The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers
I know that Benoit was somewhat an exception to the rule. He was getting extremely over before his neck injury last year. I really think he would've gotten that world title run had he not gone down. But he did screw up his neck and we got that Jericho title run in it's place.
What kills me is that Benoit did fall into this pattern when he came back from his injury. He jobbed out to Bubba, traded wins with RVD for the IC title, and won the tag titles. Now that looks good on his resume, but he is not at the top of the card like he was before his injury. IMO he is never going to get a real chance at the world title again.
Originally posted by QuezzyI wouldn't say it's better to come back from an injury or switch shows than to work up the ranks. The only reason those people got title shots was because they are main eventers. I mean look at other guys who came back from injuries or switched shows.
Rico - stuck with the most boring tag team
Benoit - has gotten a nice feud and tag titles, so I guess he has slightly benefited.
Eddie - ok so it wasn't really an injury, but he came back he didn't get a title shot
D-Von - he switched shows too and now he's just stuck in the old Dudley schtik
Batista - having boring matches with Kane
Maven - he came back from injury and now is getting beat by Harvard Chris every week
So if you look at just the main eventers then yes that is the case, because they are main eventers. But when you take the whole company into consideration your theory is not true.
I would disagree on Eddie. Remember before Eddie left the first time? He was fooling around with the Hardyz and had dropped the Euro title to Matt, he wasn't anywhere near IC level. Then he runs in after RVD easily beats Booker, beats down RVD, wins back to back PPV's aganist Rob and wins the IC title, and gets put into a fued with Austin..... so even for an upper-midcarder, it's good to return.
You don't get it boy, this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table. And I'm the surgeon. Something tells me to stop with the leg. I don't listen to it. But where in the world is there in the world A man so extroardinaire?
Ooh thanks for the warning. When I signed up, I mistakenly thought it was starting the Monday AFTER the Rumble. I definitely had to change some choices now that the Rumble counts for points.