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26.10.14 0208
The W - Pro Wrestling - Over The Limit 2012 results thread (Page 2)
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Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 16 days
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.58
One way they could have salvaged the whole main event farrago, and this does err somewhat into fantasy booking territory, was using someone other than the twilight-of-his-career uber-turner Big Show as the trigger man. Imagine putting Brodus in that spot, with Ace taking out his anger on the guy and firing him for being an embarrassment to his new talent policy and blah blah blah. If Clay makes that reluctant, conflicted turn like Show did last night, you have a fresh program, character development for a guy who desperately needs it, and a new heel type to use in the main events.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.24
How entertained was the crowd when Cena loss? That is the real question. I remarked when this first started how fucking stupid it was for this to be the main event. Even if Cena played along with the crowd, it doesn't change it from being a shit main event. There is no reason, you could not have had Punk/Bryan end the show. They are so terrified of not having Cena in the main event, it comes across as sociopath behavior. I also don't blame Its False for wanting to give up. While there is good in the WWE right now.

There is also a lot of bad, I think we are masking for the sake of Punk and Bryan. Jericho's return has been a disaster. Four straight PPV loses. Miz being jobbed to Funkasaurs. Christian returning with really no hype at all. Ziggler being wasted in the tag team division. Lord Not Appearing On This PPV A-train who beat the world champ two weeks ago. The women's division. Big Show cry feast. The mind numbing Brock Lesnar decisions and HHH's 20 minute burials of said Brock Lesnar.

Again, there is good, but it really doesn't outweigh the bad. I mean how many of us actually bought this PPV? Raise of hands? Probably a few, but not a lot. Even with our IWC boys in a title match that was a classic, I bet this is going to be one of the lowest buyrates in awhile. Mainly due to no one giving a shit about Laurantis/Cena or wanting to spend money when that is the last match we are going to get.

Mr.Boffo is spot on and I hope that someone, somewhere in creative says Why not have Punk just rip into Cena. And also not have a Cena smirk or the fans try to rally behind him. Just let him eat a shit pie for once from another face. Maybe, just maybe it will get someone else over that is a face.

(edited by lotjx on 21.5.12 0933)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 16 days
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.58
Cena ate lots of shit pies from Punk. And from Rock. And getting Punk/Bryan for the WWE title, going twenty-five minutes and putting on a clinic, absolutely does outweigh the Cena main event. You get out what you put in. If you care about good wrestling, there is plenty of it there. I'm not saying the WWE aren't putting out shit - they're putting out a LOT - but holy Hell, just stop and look at what's going on beyond Cena.

(edited by Amos Cochran on 21.5.12 0940)
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 6 hours
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.24
I think I gave you a paragraph list of problems with the show minus Cena.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 16 days
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.58
Things and people that didn't appear on the show are problems with show? The Miz, a WWE Champion who I seem to recall you roundly dismissing during his time on top, doing the job is a problem?

I think maybe you should quit watching/reading.
wannaberockstar
Morcilla








Since: 7.3.02
From: MA

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.40
    Originally posted by lotjx

    Jericho's return has been a disaster. Four straight PPV loses.


Why do you say it has been a disaster - he has been in some great matches, the majority of which have been for championships. Is it not a disaster if CM Punk had lost the belt? And one PPV loss was in a four way, which he wasn't part of the pinfall.

    Originally posted by lotjx
    Miz being jobbed to Funkasaurs.


Brodus Clay is popular right now. Wins and losses don't really matter, honestly. Miz is still a big name, regardless.

    Originally posted by lotjx
    Christian returning with really no hype at all.


He just won the Intercontinental title, for heavens sake!

    Originally posted by lotjx
    Ziggler being wasted in the tag team division.


He was in a pretty spectacular tag match last night - how is that being wasted? Would you prefer he NOT be in the title picture?

    Originally posted by lotjx
    The women's division.


They had arguably their best match last night, which actually had the crowd getting into it. Layla returning and going against Beth is the best thing that's happened to it.

    Originally posted by lotjx
    The mind numbing Brock Lesnar decisions and HHH's 20 minute burials of said Brock Lesnar.


Just because Triple H is out there talking about someone else, doesn't mean it's a "burial".
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.24
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    Things and people that didn't appear on the show are problems with show? The Miz, a WWE Champion who I seem to recall you roundly dismissing during his time on top, doing the job is a problem?

    I think maybe you should quit watching/reading.


My problem with Miz during his time as champ was more about his booking than anything else. His massive feud leading to Mania was with Lawler and almost a ladder match to him. His best match was with Morrison, but that didn't go anywhere. He was also a giant after though out the Mania build.

It is a problem if someone who beat your top star and your world champ in a month, is nowhere near a PPV. It makes those loses look stupid. Jericho has been wasted since his return. He lost all of the PPV matches he has been in. He has had two great matches with Punk granted and a good one here. Yet, he has failed at everything. He didn't win the Rumble due to Vince wanting to swerve the fans. He has had three shots at Punk and lost in all of them. His shot at Sheamus resulted in him eating the pin. As cool as his feud has been with Punk, it just seems odd, he has not won a PPV at all during his run.

Christian won the IC title last night and no one knew was coming back. Ziggler should be in an individual title picture not stuck with Hobo Kurt and equally annoying Vickie. He needs to move on from this stable and not being jobbed out. The women's division is a joke. Yes, Layla being back is nice, but its really a four woman division if you cat Nat which is almost impossible to do.

HHH talking on the mic for 20 minutes is never a good thing. His entire run down of Brock made Brock feel ordinary and a giant loser. I have no idea why you would give a guy $5 million just to be a loser, trash him and then be shocked you are getting 2.9 on Monday Nights.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Tyler Durden
Landjager








Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.10
I have a feeling, lotjx - once again - is posting about a PPV he hasn't actually watched. True or false?



#WatchROH
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.29
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    One way they could have salvaged the whole main event farrago, and this does err somewhat into fantasy booking territory, was using someone other than the twilight-of-his-career uber-turner Big Show as the trigger man. Imagine putting Brodus in that spot, with Ace taking out his anger on the guy and firing him for being an embarrassment to his new talent policy and blah blah blah. If Clay makes that reluctant, conflicted turn like Show did last night, you have a fresh program, character development for a guy who desperately needs it, and a new heel type to use in the main events.
They probably even had that exact option teed up with Clay (and never realized it) when they did that one week only bit where it seemed like Ace was forcing Clay to be the Funkasaurus.

If they can clear the hurdle of explaining why Show would ever help Ace when the option of not helping Ace and getting rehired by the Board/new GM was there* - and I question this, given that Show was one of the earliest guys they hung the infuriating "You wanna know why I turned? You don't deserve an explanation!" albatross on - there's probably still a way to get something like that out of this. That, of course, depends on someone other than Cena (Clay? Ryback?) putting down the threat of Indentured Servant Heel Big Show. So, maybe not gonna happen. The other option they either missed out on (or intentionally passed on when they decided to take him off Raw last week) would have been having Tensai take out Show, which might have been the big display that could have gotten Tensai over a bit. Since that window has most likely closed, letting one of the other two new power guys get the impressive visual win over Show seems like their best option.

*Note: I would be perfectly fine if their explanation is that Show somehow never thought of this. Like, if they just come out and have Cena (or, better yet, another face) say "Uh, you do realize Ace was going to get fired and you could have just waited five seconds and gotten rehired tomorrow, right?" and have Show flash a look of pained realization because he's honestly that dumb, completely failed to see that simple resolution and NOW he's gotta be a heel simply because he was that shortsighted and none of the faces or the crowd will respect him anyway...that would actually be kind of funny. Has anyone ever accidentally turned themselves heel that way before?
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 6 hours
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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.24
True. Again, I am going off more of the state of the WWE right now than the PPV itself. I looks like a pretty decent PPV. Yet, the outcome of the PPV really doesn't change my opinion that Laurantis/Cena as your main event was a terrible idea. And also a good chunk of the outcomes doesn't change the fact that we are giving more praise to the WWE than they deserve.

The question was why would Its False or anyone not like the WWE now. I am not going to speak for the guy, but I gave you my reasons why someone would want to quit which is more than Cena sucks. Again, Punk/Bryan is awesome and maybe like Austin/Vince is masking a lot of problems with other problems in the WWE. But, there are still problems there. I am willing to gloss over the bad to watch the show, but it doesn't change there is bad shit on this show some of which is blatantly retarded.

(edited by lotjx on 21.5.12 1145)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
CruelAngel777
Frankfurter








Since: 7.4.02

Since last post: 1 day
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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.73
Man, this thread got personal. Sooooo, Vickie looked nice last night....

I'll miss It's False reports. As negative as they were getting it the end I felt I could totally understand where he was coming from with his complaints about the horrible commentary (Once again Cole was cranked up to 11 on the dickhead psuedo-heel last night), and under utilized talent. I actually was thinking about trying my hand at recapping NXT but I know I'd come to despise the product If I started. This is before I found out about the change in the shows format. So I have more respect for It's False covering Smackdown in his in-depth (where it counted) and hilarious way. I was hoping you'd stick around and warm up to Darren Young and Titus O'Neil.

Thanks It's False.

JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.75
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Jericho's return has been a disaster. Four straight PPV loses.


Jericho is almost certainly proving a point. "I came back and lost every match and I was still just as over because what the people who tweet me don't understand about wins and losses is ..."
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 2 hours
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.94
They're not wasting Jericho. In fact, they are using him perfectly. Jericho is on the tail end of his career, and a part-timer. He *should* be putting guys over on PPVs. What else should they be doing with him?



Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 69 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.92
    Originally posted by wannaberockstar
      Originally posted by lotjx

        Originally posted by lotjx
        Miz being jobbed to Funkasaurs.


      Brodus Clay is popular right now. Wins and losses don't really matter, honestly. Miz is still a big name, regardless.




Didn't Michaels say that the biggest lie in wrestling is that wins and losses don't matter? They matter a lot. Just because the booking crew doesn't care enough about booking to book properly, doesn't mean that once you get that stink of "loser" on you, that the crowd will ever let if off you.

The WWE is full of guys that the crowd has been trained not to react to because they lose over and over until Creative decides to half-assed push them. Then when the crowd says "We know this guy sucks, he lost to Ted Dibiase Jr. for 6 months straight!" and doesn't accept him as an asskicker, Creative gives up on them and blames the wrestler.

Back in the day, guys would fight with Creative all the time to protect their characters. McMahon had to really decide who was a better draw than who. Now the WWE has them all trained to just go out there and do what they're told. Cause any trouble and you're on a 6 month losing streak to teach you a lesson.


    Originally posted by wannaberockstar
      Originally posted by lotjx

        Originally posted by lotjx
        Christian returning with really no hype at all.


      He just won the Intercontinental title, for heavens sake!




But if you're going to have Christian return to face someone for the IC title, shouldn't you announce it a show or two before the PPV to get a few more buys from people who are on the fence? As it is, Christian showing up and winning the title did nothing for the show, as everyone had made their decision at that point.


    Originally posted by wannaberockstar
      Originally posted by lotjx

        Originally posted by lotjx
        Ziggler being wasted in the tag team division.


      He was in a pretty spectacular tag match last night - how is that being wasted? Would you prefer he NOT be in the title picture?




Being spectacular in an opening match time and time again is being wasted. When the top people on the show include the likes of Tensai, Johnny Ace, Santino, Otunga, Eve (although Eve has been equally awesome) and 10 other people while Ziggler is put over and over as the loser in a dead division that the WWE has been very open about not caring about, all while Vickie attracts any heat he might be getting onto herself, then he's being wasted.


I was actually upset when I read the results to this PPV. I went through the list and realized that I would have gotten my predictions right on each match for once. But I put off making the predictions until Sunday, and then forgot there was a PPV and went out Sunday until late.

But then I realized I really don't care about watching that much. As excited as I was a few weeks ago about the show, it's gone now. I don't hate Johnny Ace, I don't care enough about the show to hate him. I think it says something that they only things I do care about at this point are the Funkasaurus (well, Cameron anyways) and Titus and Young (Millions of dollars, millions of dollars).

I will miss your recaps It's False. They were entertaining and informative. I can understand how it must kill your spirit to transcribe and review such nonsense in real time though. You've earned a break, and if you don't come back to doing them, I think everyone understands.
DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 2 hours
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.25
Read it and weep, fella


    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Jericho is almost certainly proving a point. "I came back and lost every match and I was still just as over because what the people who tweet me don't understand about wins and losses is ..."





CLICK OR DIE
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.75
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    *Note: I would be perfectly fine if their explanation is that Show somehow never thought of this. Like, if they just come out and have Cena (or, better yet, another face) say "Uh, you do realize Ace was going to get fired and you could have just waited five seconds and gotten rehired tomorrow, right?" and have Show flash a look of pained realization because he's honestly that dumb, completely failed to see that simple resolution and NOW he's gotta be a heel simply because he was that shortsighted and none of the faces or the crowd will respect him anyway...that would actually be kind of funny.


This would be great. Laurinaitis and Show did have a Lost In Translation moment there, so maybe Johnny promised Show untold riches besides just his job. Like he'll be the first wrestler with health insurance.

    Originally posted by lotjx
    a good chunk of the outcomes doesn't change the fact that we are giving more praise to the WWE than they deserve.


We are praising the wrestlers for working hard and to a lesser extent WWE for using a lot of its PPV time more wisely than they sometimes do on other cards, where facilitating a good show in-ring doesn't seem to be a priority. I don't think anyone is stumping for the booking, but the "oh no we're all gonna die" stuff can wait for the next bad show. I'm sure there'll be one soon enough.

    Originally posted by It's False
    We join this in progress. Yeah, we're joining a match IN PROGRESS on a PPV! Because why bother to have entrances when 90% of these guys don't matter anyway?


btws this was all to condition people to watch the YouTube show. They booked the match, did all the entrances, and started the match there.

    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    I will miss your recaps It's False. They were entertaining and informative. I can understand how it must kill your spirit to transcribe and review such nonsense in real time though.


I think it would kill anyone's spirit to transcribe and play-by-play anything. What kind of crazy person would do that, some kind of wrestlemaniac? Mr. False doesn't need less Laurinaitis to save his soul, he just needs to paraphrase.
GodEatGod
Boudin rouge








Since: 28.2.02

Since last post: 68 days
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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
I'm certainly not going to argue that there isn't crap in WWE right now (the Ace stuff and Ziggler deserving much more spring to mind). And obviously, with Punk/Bryan and Christian returning, there's stuff to like, too. My question is:

When has it been different?

I've been watching wrestling pretty steadily for at least the last fifteen years (not counting my childhood markdom), and I can't remember a time when the shows didn't have a mixture of good and bad. There's almost always someone criminally underpushed, be it Jericho in the late nineties to Ziggler today. There've almost always been undeserved pushes and nonsensical turns. Big fat comedy wrestlers squashing more talented competition goes back to Men on a Mission and well before.

Does that indicate that the product is somewhat stagnant? Maybe...or maybe that's just what professional wrestling is. There's no one formula that entertains everybody, so there's a mix and everybody's bound to dislike something and, WWE hopes, everybody's bound to like something, too, and they hope that the good outweighs the bad. Would I love shows that are nothing but Bryan/Punk/Ziggler/Jericho, etc., having twenty minute matches every night, with a few promos in between? Yeah, probably. But a) many parts of the audience wouldn't like it and b) that's never going to happen, except in ROH or a similar fed specialized for the Internet fan.

Everybody has to decide for themselves, of course, how the ratio of good to crap is working for them at any given time. But, if it gets better, it's not gonna get much better. And, at least for me, it's definitely been a lot worse: after all, I watched the dying days of WCW.



"Never piss off a hawk with a blowgun" - Conan O'Brien
Dr Unlikely
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Since: 2.1.02

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.29
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
      *Note: I would be perfectly fine if their explanation is that Show somehow never thought of this. Like, if they just come out and have Cena (or, better yet, another face) say "Uh, you do realize Ace was going to get fired and you could have just waited five seconds and gotten rehired tomorrow, right?" and have Show flash a look of pained realization because he's honestly that dumb, completely failed to see that simple resolution and NOW he's gotta be a heel simply because he was that shortsighted and none of the faces or the crowd will respect him anyway...that would actually be kind of funny.


    This would be great. Laurinaitis and Show did have a Lost In Translation moment there, so maybe Johnny promised Show untold riches besides just his job. Like he'll be the first wrestler with health insurance.
A job back plus health insurance guarantee from Ace would be a payoff of 13 years (to the month!) of the Union angle. Everyone else in The Union is gone now, yet Show never gave up on the dream of beating The Corporation. But at what cost victory, Show? At what cost?

Alternately, it could be revealed tonight that the third hour of WWE programming on USA will be Knucklehead: The Series.

Still, I'm sticking with the hope that Show just somehow never even considered the "let Ace get fired, get rehired by the Board who fired Ace" scenario, and when someone points it out to him tonight, he'll be all embarrassed and try to save face by laughing at himself and saying "Oh man, you guys forgive me right?" and when they don't, he'll start crying and be a heel who does terrible things and cries after them all the time.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 119 days
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.16
    Originally posted by GodEatGod

    When has it been different?


It's each according to their capacity to enjoy what they're seeing. I mean, look, I'm 37. I've been watching since 1985. What I enjoyed when I was 10 differs from how I watched and enjoyed when I was 20 and differs to how I watched and what I enjoyed at 30 up to now. Everyone is different, has been watching for different lengths of time, enjoys different things. For me, it's much harder to be interested on a week to week basis with every passing year. I've just seen a lot, maybe too much.

Sometimes, something really catches with me. Start of the Nexus angle, Summer of Punk, The Rock vs. Cena, Brock Lesnar, just to name things from the last two years that have galvanized my interest in the product. But I'm also aware of the massive flaws in WWE's creative mechanics and decision making, which feed into a general distrust of how they go about using their talent. And honestly, I just don't care that much about the newer guys; that's partly a result of WWE Creative problems and partly that as I realize I'm now older than most of the current roster, my attachment happens to be greater to the guys and girls I grew up watching. That's why I get excited when The Rock returns or Trish Stratus shows up, more than I can be about Dolph Ziggler, no matter how much potential he shows and how great he really could be (if WWE lets him.)

I'm also incredibly aware that I'm increasingly not the target demographic WWE aims for, and that there are multitudes of new, young fans being created who have not seen all I've seen and who are dazzled by what WWE is and see no problems with what they're seeing. By and large, WWE is for them now, and more power to them. I'm resigned to enjoy whatever I happen to enjoy and not give a shit 90% of the time.



@CMPunk
“@ZackRyder: @CMPunk She played me bro” I got your back.
Oliver
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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.03
Punk/Bryan was INCREDIBLE - and I really want to see them compete in an one hour ironman match.

Has there ever been a one hour triple threat ironman match? Put Ziggler in there with them, and I will be in heaven.



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