Just a few quick comments and I'll refrain from any more off-topicness.
Originally posted by evilwaldoThis is probably getting a bit off topic but a lot of the outsourcing problem dates back to the Patriot Act
I would think given the large number of foreign students in all my CS/Engineering classes, it wouldn't have been too long before someone realized that its cheaper to work from India, regardless of political conditions here, or the end of the bubble, or whatever. The main cause for this is all the advances in tele-commuting in the 90's. Not that the other factors didn't affect the situation, but they accelerated events. If the Patriot Act never happened, someone would still start the outsourcing trend eventually. If they couldn't VPN and teleconference and whatnot, this all becomes impossible.
Newsweek didn't say all the jobs were coming back. They basically said that CEO's are still learning what jobs can and can't be outsourced. They basically said that the Indians aren't good at creative tasks and design, (which Wired said a few months ago), so that means that the Engineering and at least the high-level programming jobs should be returning, so that we can create and design stuff for them to implement. I can see how that's pandering, since it basically says, "We're better than you since you can only make things when we tell you how."
Zeruel, no one's denying there's an outsourcing problem. It sucks to be anywhere right now in the IT/Computer industry. (Except maybe India, but even they are worried about business going somewhere cheaper.)
"Yeah, angles in the ring... someone thought of that a long time ago. They called it pro wrestling." -- the MCS
"I think mentally maybe I've just reached puberty." -- Vince McMahon (hollywoodreporter.com)
"How many poles did you get?" "I got just enough for . . . ninja!"
Unfortunatly I too am being outsourced. My last day here will be October 29th, so at least I have time to prepare. When I worked for Amazon.com they closed their Seattle Call Center and cut about 500 or more people. They shipped their jobs not only to India, but also to a company in Ireland. I can tell from the inside it was a horrible choice. The quality of the customer service dropped and the complaints soared. I have been out of there now for a couple of years, but I still keep in touch with one or two people who still work there and they say the quaility has not improved at all.
From a fiscal standpoint I can see how it makes sense. For instance in outsorcing my department alone they will save $4 million a year. But I am afraid they are going to lose the quality of the work we do. Thats the bad thing about outsorcing, companies seem to be sacraficing quality for cost. The problem is in the long term it seems like it would hurt their bottom line more with declining quality.
Case in point- Dell. Dell sent huge number of call centers and help desk operations to India and they saved money, but they also started losing busniess because people were getting frustrated when they called for help. So Dell's customer satisfaction rating dropped off dramatically. Last year Dell decided to pull back some it's offshore call centers in an effort to regain customer confidence (http://news.com.com/2100-7342-5110933.html).
(Artist Formerly Known As) WIENER OF THE DAY! July 6, 2002! If I lived back in the wild west days, instead of carrying a six-gun in my holster, I'd carry a soldering iron. That way, if some smart-aleck cowboy said something like "Hey, look. He's carrying a soldering iron!" and started laughing, and everybody else started laughing, I could just say, "That's right, it's a soldering iron. The soldering iron of justice." Then everybody would get real quiet and ashamed, because they had made fun of the soldering iron of justice, and I could probably hit them up for a free drink.
Originally posted by The Thrill Seriously, best of luck, CRZ. And I looked...but I couldn't find an employment section of Packers.com. Sorry.
Now THAT would be awesome...good idea Thrill!
Just wanted to say best of luck to you CRZ in finding a new job. Working in government, I love to bitch about the pay (it sucks) but it's times like this when I appreciate the fact that I have job security. I have a feeling you will pull through this just fine--good luck!
"Because Iím a fan. Because I view this industry as an art form, and I have a deep appreciation for that art form because Iím not physically able and never have been and never will be physically able to do what they do in the ring. And even if I was physically able, I donít think I have the balls to attempt it. Itís so dangerous. Itís so hard. Itís so intricate. Itís so difficult. Itís so taxing. I couldnít do it. And I have enormous respect and admiration for those who do, let alone do it well."
Originally posted by ZeruelOne of those online airplane ticket companies had a call center in Charlottsville, VA and they outsourced to India and the town lost 200 jobs.
The Washington Post had an article about it a few weeks ago, I'll search their site and see if it's still there.
There IS a problem about computer jobs going to India. I am 30 creds short of my CMIS BS, but I swiched to Accounting. What's the point of getting my programming degree when there are no jobs? My neighbot 2 doors up has been looking for TWO YEARS for a job, and she was on the dean's list her jr and sr years of college, but no one is hiring in this area (east coast).
I know this isn't always the case, but another horror story....I have a close friend that has had his MIS degree for about two years. In that time he has moved from Oklahoma to Georgia to Oregon and back looking for work. Currently he makes minimum wage at a Taco Bell...been there for several months now. He's applied at 10-20 different firms around here and NOTHING.
Here are the 10 Best and Worst Jobs according to the Wall Street Journal. I would beg to differ with Computer Systems Analyst and maybe even Software Engineer. I know for a fact my company, in addition to us, is looking outsource our application developers.
EDIT: I was trying to help Nag who asked if was wasting his time in school what career he should go into. He deleted is post however, so mine looks a bit out of place. But I thought it was interesting information anyway.
(edited by Ffej on 14.4.04 1103) (Artist Formerly Known As) WIENER OF THE DAY! July 6, 2002! If I lived back in the wild west days, instead of carrying a six-gun in my holster, I'd carry a soldering iron. That way, if some smart-aleck cowboy said something like "Hey, look. He's carrying a soldering iron!" and started laughing, and everybody else started laughing, I could just say, "That's right, it's a soldering iron. The soldering iron of justice." Then everybody would get real quiet and ashamed, because they had made fun of the soldering iron of justice, and I could probably hit them up for a free drink.
Salami, tell your friend who works at Taco Bell to apply to thier management program. They want people with COllege Degrees, no matter what the field of study was. Thier attrition rate is about 80%, so moving up is usually a pretty easy thing, if they stick to it, and a GM at a store makes FAR more than minimum wages.
Anyhow, CRZ, try checking out the DOD website they always have tech jobs on there.
Originally posted by CRZThe upside is *I* have chosen to look at this as "wow, I'm being given a wad of money to go find a BETTER job at a place that might actually APPRECIATE me!" And hopefully that'll be just what happens. At any rate, there's plenty of time left before I have to panic. ;-)
Attaboy, Chris! Remember, it's their loss, not yours. That's the way I felt back in '92 when I was told that my position at a company I had spent over a dozen years working for had been eliminated, and it's the way I still feel today (after all, I'm working now at a job I love, while they no longer exist). So you say
Originally posted by CRZthere's not a LOT out there specifically tailored to a candidate like ME
So what? There doesn't have to be a LOT out there; you only need one job, and when you choose the one you want, you'll be the best candidate for it. If there's one thing I've leaned through the years it's that, no matter what condition the job market may be in, good workers are always in demand. And from what I've seen on this board I have no doubt that you are a good worker, and that you will be an asset to whatever company you decide to work for.
So don't panic. Don't get discouraged. Make the most of any free time you may get to enjoy. Your next job will be waiting for you when you're ready to accept it.
1993: RAW (CRZ.net) 1999: RAW (slashwrestling.com) 1999: Nitro 2001: Smackdown 2002: Byte This! by E.C. Ostermeyer 2004: No Way Out: The PreLine (PDF) by Robert Ortega 2004: No Way Out: The Lines (PDF) by Robert Ortega