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dskillz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

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#1 Posted on
I don't want to make this a "Hey does anyone like..." board, but anyone else out there like Outkast? I grew up on alot of rap music, but recently most rap does nothing but make me turn the station. Outkast has consistently put out some strong albums that have something to say yet are entertaining at the same time. Plus they are different. They stand out big time among all the "Bling Bling" rappers out there. I like'm! Not as much as I like Beeferooni though.





January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
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DrOp
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

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#2 Posted on

OutKast kicks all kinds of Ass. They are innovative in their look, sound and approach to the genre. I was in college in Atlanta when they first burst upon the scene in Christmas of 93 and have appreciated them greatly since. Got ALL their albums , too!! =) They use original music, obscure samples and metaphors uncommon since the heyday of DeLa Soul. LOVE 'em. Yup. I do.



I only know that I can change; everything else just stays the same.


Snooge
Cotto








Since: 3.1.02
From: PA

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#3 Posted on
And they get so funky. Like Prince on crack in a way. Outkast is the bizom yo!
TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

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#4 Posted on
I can't recall anything from Outkast that I didn't like. They strike me as a combination of elements of funk and rap (as Snooge had said). It's an awesome combo.
heartbreakgirl
Weisswurst








Since: 11.1.02
From: Virginia

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#5 Posted on
I LOVE Outkast. I have all 5 of their Cds. Yes, they rule it.



Kay - one cool chica.
Notorious F.A.B.
Pepperoni








Since: 4.2.02
From: Dudleyville's Gay Ghetto

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#6 Posted on
if most rap is making you change the station, listen to stuff that doesn't get played on the radio. check out some www.hieroglyphics.com (pep love was my hip hop champ for 2001.)

outkast peaked with "aquemini", imo. "stankonia" had some good songs but the ratio was too low for me. the singles plus the b-real track were it. it just doesn't compare to "ATLiens" (when i first heard them with "wheelz of steel").

they're transcending rap, you know? "stank" sounded more techno than hip hop to me. it's great they're in a position where they can evolve their music like that and have the creative wherewithall to do it, but it's less and less music i like.



It's just you against the group mind.
I like weiners.
DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
I'm sick of every single song on the radio these days. I mean, how many songs in a row can you sing about your chain/watch/ring/car/rims/gold teeth? All that crap gets REAL old to me.

In the meantime, Outkast is the ISH.



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spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#8 Posted on
The new Outkast single really has perked my ears up, with such cool style shifts inside the song. Though on the subject of songs about bling bling, the new Ludacris one does approach it with a good sense of humor.



There, I feel better now.
Rudy
Polska kielbasa








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 4381 days
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#9 Posted on
I hate most rap music. I find the lyrics meaningless and the music and rythyms simplistic and infantile.

But I really like Outkast. They're doing the most interesting work in rap music since The Clash broke up. :-)

I almost hate to call them a rap group.

Later, Rudy
Notorious F.A.B.
Pepperoni








Since: 4.2.02
From: Dudleyville's Gay Ghetto

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#10 Posted on
"I hate most rap music. I find the lyrics meaningless and the music and rythyms simplistic and infantile."

truly spoken like a man who has never heard anything other than the bullshit big record labels (and their wholly owned subsidiaries) push. it's like someone hating on wrestling because of hulk hogan and randy savage who has never heard of chris benoit.

listen to sage francis' "makeshift patriot" (http://www.drizzle.com/~kylem/mus) and tell me that shit's meaningless, simplistic and infantile.

(edited by Notorious F.A.B. on 9.2.02 1832)
It's just you against the group mind. I like weiners.
Rudy
Polska kielbasa








Since: 3.1.02

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#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by Notorious F.A.B.
    "I hate most rap music. I find the lyrics meaningless and the music and rythyms simplistic and infantile."

    truly spoken like a man who has never heard anything other than the bullshit big record labels (and their wholly owned subsidiaries) push. it's like someone hating on wrestling because of hulk hogan and randy savage who has never heard of chris benoit.

    listen to sage francis' "makeshift patriot" (http://www.drizzle.com/~kylem/mus) and tell me that shit's meaningless, simplistic and infantile.

    (edited by Notorious F.A.B. on 9.2.02 1832)



Nope, spoken like someone who hears tons of indy music each week, and still finds that rap, like just about every other form of music, is 90% shit. Outkast is proof that it's not the fault of the genre, it's the fault of the people working in the genre.

I'll give your recommedation a listen, but I doubt that it'll do much to change my mind. My comment was that TO ME, most rap music has simplistic rhythms and infantile lyrics--it's a matter of taste. I happen to like simplistic rhythm sometimes, and I certainly enjoy a well-crafted infantile lyric, but for me, the two just don't work too well together.

Later, Rudy
Notorious F.A.B.
Pepperoni








Since: 4.2.02
From: Dudleyville's Gay Ghetto

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#12 Posted on
...and as a staunch hip hop advocate your opinion is uninformed and offends me. if you want to hold on to your opinion despite what you hear to the contrary, feel free. if you were open, you'd have listened to the song before posting.


makeshift patriot
by sage francis

chorus:
makeshift patriot, the flag shop is out of stock
i hang myself at half mast
(x4)

(live via telecast)
coming live from my own funeral
beautiful weather offered a nice shine
which is suitable for a full view of a forever altered skyline
when times like these arise i freestyle biased opinions every other
sentence
journalist ethics slip when i pass them off as objective
("don't give me that ethical ish!")
i'll get exclusive explicit images to present to impressionable american
kids
and it's time to show this world how big our edifice is
that's exactly what they attacked when a typically dark skinned disney
villain
used civilians against civilians and charged the trojan horses into our
buildings
using commercial aviation as instruments of destruction
pregnant women couldn't protect their children
wheelchairs were stairway obstructions
now i have to back peddle
from the shower of glass and metal
wondering how after it settles we'll find who provided power to radical
rebels
the melting pot seems to be calling the kettle black when it boils over
but only on our own soil, so the little boy holds a toy soldier
and waits for the suit and tie to come home
we won't wait till he's older before we destroy hopes for a colder war to
end
("i'll get a close up of his head!")
chorus
("how does my hair look?")
chorus
("run that tape back!")
chorus
("it looks just like a movie.")
chorus
(while the stock markets crash)
the city is covered in inches of muck
i see some other pictures of victims are up
grieving mothers are thinking their children are stuck
leaping lovers are making decisions to jump
while holding hands to escape the brutal heat
sometimes in groups of three
the fall out was far beyond the toxic clouds where people looked like
debris
but all they saw after all was said
beyond the talking heads was the bloody dust with legs looking like
the walking dead calling for meds
but all the hospitals are overwhelmed
volunteers need to go the hell home
moments of silence for firefighters were interrupted by cell phones
who's going to make that call to increase an unknown death toll
it's the one we rally behind
he's got a megaphone and he's promising to make heads roll
we cheer him on but asbestos is effecting our breath control
the lesser we know the more they fabricate - the easier it is to sell
souls

"there is a new price on freedom so buy into it while supplies last.
changes need to be made. no more curb side baggage. seven pm curfew.
racial profiling will continue with less bitching. we've unified over who
to kill, so until i find more relevant scripture to quote, remember: our
god is bigger, stronger, smarter, and much wealthier. so wave those flags
with pride, especially the white part."

we're selling addictive 24 hour candle light vigils in tvs
freedom WILL be defended at the cost of civil liberties
the viewers are glued to television screens
stuck 'cause lots of things seem too sick
i use opportunities to pluck heart strings for theme music
i'll show which culture to pump your fist at
which foot is right to kiss
we don't really know who the culprit is yet ("nah") but he looks like this
we know who the heroes are, they're not the xenophobes who act hard
we taught that dog to squat, how dare he do that ish in our own back yard?
they happen to scar our financial state and char our landscape
can you count how many times so far i've ran back the same damn tape?
while the camera man creates news and shoves it down our throats, on the
west bank
with a ten second clip put on constant loop to provoke u.s. angst
so get your tanks and load your guns and hold your suns in a family huddle
'cause even if we win this tug of war, we even the score, humanity
struggles
there's a desperate need for blood for what's been uncovered under the
rubble
some of them dug for answers in the mess but the rest were looking for
trouble
chorus x 4
(don't wave your rights with your flags.)









It's just you against the group mind.
I like weiners.
Rudy
Polska kielbasa








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 4381 days
Last activity: 4371 days
#13 Posted on
<<...and as a staunch hip hop advocate your opinion is uninformed and offends me. if you want to hold on to your opinion despite what you hear to the contrary, feel free. if you were open, you'd have listened to the song before posting. >>

First of all, I'm sorry if my taste in music offends you. I'm soooooo sorry that I'm not nearly open-minded enough to impress you, mister advocate, sir. I didn't realize that Hip-hop was so bad off that it need advocacy.

Had you posted a link that worked, I would have listened to the cut first, but since I couldn't get it work, and since there was a chance that it was the fault of my browser, I had to wait until I had the time.

I have since tried it on another browser, and it still came up as a blank page. Now, that already makes it an improvement over a lot of rap music, but I don't think that's what you're aiming for. If at some point I can find some music by this fella, I'll give it a listen. You've piqued my interest, and should at least feel good about that.

To get back to the point of my original post, I said that I LIKE Outkast, in spite of the fact that I don't care for most rap music. I'm sorry if my honest (and very well-informed, thank you) opinion doesn't meet up to your lofty standards, but I'm sure that I like a lot of music that you don't care for.

Unlike, you, however, I'm willing to allow you to have your opinions without being offended by them or pointing out how wrong they are. That's the very essence of being open-minded--allowing someone to disagree with you.

What I was saying was that, as a person who is disinclined to enjoy rap music, I can still appreciate the craft, hooks, and artistry of a group the caliber of Outkast. It would be the same if you, as a staunch hip-hop advocate, heard a country song that you liked. Even though you may (or may not--I'm just grabbing an example) hate country music, unless you fear the honest expression of your own opinion, you'd say, "I hate most county music, but that stuff's pretty keen!", or words to that effect.

That's what I was doing, saying that I LIKED a rap song, even though I usually don't like rap.

As for the lyrics you posted. Except for the topical references to 9-11, there's nothing new there. Don Henley and Frank Zappa covered that ground pretty extensively, some of it probably before you were born.

I mean, "Oh, the media is bad and people watch too much TV and get desensitised to violence" is hardly an original message. Now that I think of it, even Tom Petty expressed those sentiments about twenty years ago.

But, reading lyrics is no substitute for hearing the actual music, and if I can get a link that works, I'll give it a shot. Until then, it just looks like bad angry-young-man poetry to me.

In the meantime, you might want to come down off your hip-hop high horse, the air must be getting pretty thin up there.

Find a link that works, I'll give it a listen. Like I said, in the manner of a good advocate, you got me curious. I hope that it's as good as Outkast.

But if I listen to it and think it sucks, that means that you're wrong and I'm right! :-)

C'mon, lighten up!

Later, Rudy


Notorious F.A.B.
Pepperoni








Since: 4.2.02
From: Dudleyville's Gay Ghetto

Since last post: 4026 days
Last activity: 4012 days
AIM:  
#14 Posted on
http://www.hiphopsite.com/realaudio/sagefrancis-makeshiftpatriot.ram sorry, i was over my limit.

on the song: "I mean, "Oh, the media is bad and people watch too much TV and get desensitised to violence" is hardly an original message."

excepting the 9-11 content, this song is about the media traumatizing viewers to make them blindly rally behind the government. it is an honest documentation that balances the humanity of the situation with the instantaneous, seedy manipulation of it.

this isn't a new idea and if that is your only litmus, all music will likely disappoint you. nothing under the sun is new. what this song isn't, is meaningless and infantile.

on hip hop: the genre is doing fine without me, your quip about not knowing it NEEDS advocacy aside. the art form is very important to me and it bothers me when people throw around gross generalizations bashing it. every time i see someone try to throw one, i'm going to try to intercept it. my name's fab, how you doing?

on opinions: i "allow" you to disagree with me. the language and tone you use intimate that's exactly what you're going to do and that's fine. "i'll listen to it later but i doubt it it will do much to change my mind" doesn't inspire hope for an open mind.

musically, there isn't much there for you. it isn't bouncy southern rap. it's bleek, murky and underground nyc, as it should be for the subject matter. hopefully hearing sage's delivery will make the internal rhymes, alliteration and changing rhyme schemes stick out more for you, because this song isn't "bad angry-young-man poetry".

again, if your opinion doesn't change: fine. i respectfully ask you though to provide an example of a similar song in any genre that you personally like better so i can see where you are coming from.

and to be fair, i searched out some of sage francis' other stuff and didn't like any of it.

"To get back to the point of my original post, I said that I LIKE Outkast, in spite of the fact that I don't care for most rap music."

your original post: "I hate most rap music. I find the lyrics meaningless and the music and rythyms simplistic and infantile." then you said "I almost hate to call them a rap group".

the second sentence offended me and i disregarded the first. my bad. "rap" and "meaningless" just don't go together for me, except when it comes to the guys with the big push, like ludicris or cash money millionaires.

you hear tons of new indie music each week. that's great and i didn't know that about you. i wish i still worked at a record store or had a job at a radio station.

with that kind of resource available to you, you should be able to check out pep love's "ascension", sonic sum's "the sanity annex", reflection eternal's "train of thought", the coup's "steal this album", jamil mustafa's "when poets shout", saul williams' "amythist rock star", fagrap's singles, blackstar's album or company flow's song "patriotism". all of these are rap and none of them are meaningless, simplistic and infantile.

this is the stuff i am surrounded with. this is where i am coming from. http://www.drizzle.com/~kylem/mlist.txt is a list of my cds and should give you a better picture of what it looks like over here.

(actually, you SHOULD by all means check out zion i's "mind over matter". they're from cali and that sound is more similar to the dirty south than any other region. they've got layered production and positive, intelligent lyrics.)


(edited by Notorious F.A.B. on 12.2.02 0328)

[EDIT: Linkified - CRZ]

(edited by CRZ on 12.2.02 0836)
It's just you against the group mind. I like weiners.
Rudy
Polska kielbasa








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 4381 days
Last activity: 4371 days
#15 Posted on
Actually, it's available at http://www.sagefrancis.com--I downloaded it last night, and listened to it this morning.

It's not bad. I like the background music. The lyrics, again, don't impress me much because I've heard the same sentiments expressed more artfully by others.

Gil Scott Heron and Frank Zappa pretty much said all that there was to say on the subject years ago. I'm not saying that means that nobody else should do music about those subjects, but in my mind, they've got a lot to measure up to.


<< excepting the 9-11 content, this song is about the media traumatizing viewers to make them blindly rally behind the government. it is an honest documentation that balances the humanity of the situation with the instantaneous, seedy manipulation of it. >>

I gotta recommend Zappa's "Dumb All Over" and "The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing", if you want to hear where I'm coming from. "Dumb All Over" even has a Dr. Seuss-like rhyming scheme that sounds like rap music--only the music itself if much more complex.

<< this isn't a new idea and if that is your only litmus, all music will likely disappoint you. nothing under the sun is new. what this song isn't, is meaningless and infantile. >>

Agreed. It's not meaningles or infantile.

<< on hip hop: the genre is doing fine without me, your quip about not knowing it NEEDS advocacy aside. the art form is very important to me and it bothers me when people throw around gross generalizations bashing it. every time i see someone try to throw one, i'm going to try to intercept it. my name's fab, how you doing? >>

I'm Rudy, doin' pretty good, and apparently I wasn't clear on why I was saying what I did about rap music. I was making a gross generalization---about myself. I feel that it's best, when critiquing something, to be upfront about your biases and pre-existing opinions and leanings. That's what I was trying to do.

I hate most rap music. I can tell from what you've written, that you probably do, too.

Your disdain for "corporate-controlled" music is a dead giveaway. I don't really need to hear another song about shooting up bitches, or having sex all night, or another five-minute exercise in how many offensive words can be crammed into a small period. I hear most rap music, and I have the same reaction that I do when I hear most country music---most of it turns me off, but when something catches my ear, I have no problem saying that I like it.

Which is why I have Outkast and Johnny Cash in my record collection.

<< on opinions: i "allow" you to disagree with me. the language and tone you use intimate that's exactly what you're going to do and that's fine. "i'll listen to it later but i doubt it it will do much to change my mind" doesn't inspire hope for an open mind. >>

Too late, I heard it and it didn't suck. A tad preachy, but not too bad on that count.

<< musically, there isn't much there for you. it isn't bouncy southern rap. it's bleek, murky and underground nyc, as it should be for the subject matter. hopefully hearing sage's delivery will make the internal rhymes, alliteration and changing rhyme schemes stick out more for you, because this song isn't "bad angry-young-man poetry". >>

It definitely works better aloud than it does reading words on a screen. The delivery seemed a bit clumsy to me, but it was heartfelt and with what he was saying, it worked.

<< your original post: "I hate most rap music. I find the lyrics meaningless and the music and rythyms simplistic and infantile." then you said "I almost hate to call them a rap group".

the second sentence offended me and i disregarded the first. my bad. "rap" and "meaningless" just don't go together for me, except when it comes to the guys with the big push, like ludicris or cash money millionaires. >>

Again, I was making the generalization about myself, so that anyone reading would know where I stand. That should make the fact that I like Outkast a more useful piece of information than simply saying "Wooo! They rock!"

As for rap and meaningless not going together---HAMMER TIME!

It'd be like me trying to say that rock n' roll is not sexist. It might not all be that way, but enough of it is that you ought to be able to get away with pointing it out.

<< this is the stuff i am surrounded with. this is where i am coming from. http://www.drizzle.com/~kylem/mlist.txt is a list of my cds and should give you a better picture of what it looks like over here. >>

I will when the deadlines aren't beating down on me. I can see why you got a little bent out of shape when I said I hate rap music, but the stuff that I hate, I have a feeling, you probably hate even more.

However, I listen to, and enjoy so much other music, that you have to forgive me if I don't drop everything to run out and try new things immediately.

To give you an idea of what I've been listening to lately, here's the last ten CD's that I've had in the PC while I've been cranking out Toy Fair coverage for Mastercollector.com:

Paul McCartney "Driving Rain"
Cab Calloway "Hi De Ho Man"
Tenacious D's debut album
Frank Zappa "The Best Band You Never Heard Live"
Sam Cooke "Anthology"
The Aquabats "Myths and Legends, volume two"
Yes "Tormato"
The Specials "More Specials"
Oingo Boingo "Anthology"
Kate Bush "The Kick Inside"

Those are just the top of the stack next to the computer. I could list a million MP3s of groups that nobody's ever heard of, but that would be sort of pointless. Besides, my favorite server just got shut down :-)

And that's just to give you an idea of how scattershot my tastes are. I was a little surprised when I saw how long it had been since I'd had a classical CD in for a listen.

Anyway, I hope you can realize what I was trying to say was, "Not speaking as a fan of rap music, I still like Outkast". I wasn't trying to say that all rap music sucked, I was explaining that I generally don't care for the conventions of the form, and when I do hear something I like it rap, it's even more impressive because of my musical tastes.

Now, on the matter of 90% of everything sucking, I have to give credit to Theodore Sturgeon, but I'm sticking by it.

Later, Rudy












Notorious F.A.B.
Pepperoni








Since: 4.2.02
From: Dudleyville's Gay Ghetto

Since last post: 4026 days
Last activity: 4012 days
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#16 Posted on
i've co-opted one of the nation of islam's ideas:

85% of everything is crap
10% is passable
5% is really fucking good

i'm glad you liked the song and you have admirably eclectic musical tastes. it looks like we're in agreement. see you around the board, rudy.



It's just you against the group mind.
I like weiners.
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