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The W - Pro Wrestling - Opinions on Vengeance (Page 2)
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Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 3501 days
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.68
I watched the PPV via updates at 411, Torch and Observer. I have to say between the two 411 was the quickest, not as in depth as torch. Observer kinda sucks since it was a sentence about who won and their general opinion on the match. So, I recommend for 411 and Torch for people like who have no cable, but have internet. I liked what I read and will probably buy this on DVD.

I am glad that Randy is not champ anymore and Benoit still is. I just wished Eugene and Flair had won, because it sounded like they were hysterical together. Raw sounds interesting, so I'll probably head over to 411 to see what is going on.
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 50 days
Last activity: 20 hours
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.27
I'm in two minds about the shown.

On the plus side, I thought the IC and Heavyweight matches were darned entertaining (though Orton/Edge took a bit to get going). The two tag matches were entertaining in a moer comedic way, and Jericho/Batista was nicely done. And at the end of the night (or start of the morning over here) I found myself wanting to watch RAW this week to find out how all the stories progress.

The flip side is that I didn't get the feeling that anything really happened last night. I suppose the big event/shock was Matt going over Kane but like Leggo, I felt it came off as a bit flat for some reason. Other than that, we're no further forward with knowing where Eugene's true loyalty lies, nothing major with regards an Evolution break up happened, the tag titles stayed where they were. Sure the IC title changed hands, but that was a given as soon as Edge cut the one by one promo on RAW.

Overall I guess Vengeance left me with a curiously empty feeling. Sure I was entertained, but I'm entertained by RAW on a weekly basis and it don't cost me money. On top of which, keeping me amused while sozzled ain't exactly rocket science.

Mibees I just want more from my PPV's now that we actually have to, well, pay to view them in the UK. But hey, I'm sure to watch RAW this week, so maybe its job done in any case on their part.



leggo
Mettwurst








Since: 23.3.04
From: Dublin, Ireland

Since last post: 3661 days
Last activity: 3505 days
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.73
    Originally posted by A Fan
    I watched the PPV via updates at 411, Torch and Observer. I have to say between the two 411 was the quickest, not as in depth as torch. Observer kinda sucks since it was a sentence about who won and their general opinion on the match. So, I recommend for 411 and Torch for people like who have no cable, but have internet. I liked what I read and will probably buy this on DVD.


Not to sound like a cheap whore (bah when has that ever stopped me?), but I think the coverage we give over at Powerwrestling.com far surpasses anything else on the net. Honestly. For a start, we have highlights of the shows as they happen on the site (this report published live). Plus, for the Great American Bash and Vengeance, I have done live play-by-play of the show in our chat room, which also has some lively banter going on. The PBP is easy to follow and everyone who followed the show via that seemed to enjoy it and follow capably. I'll be doing it for SummerSlam too if anyone's interested, although when school starts in September, I'll have to judge whether I'll be doing each PPV on a case-by-case basis. Anyway, I recommend you check it out at least next time and see if it's your cup of tea, I'll post a reminder in my sig as we get closer to the date.



Powerwrestling News Central
Updated July 12th with Vengeance thoughts and Not Another Teen Survey.

Leggo's Two Cents
Updated June 17th as Leggo says Enough Already to the IWC.
Phantom
Frankfurter








Since: 17.3.02

Since last post: 2319 days
Last activity: 2295 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.17
    Originally posted by The Vile1
    Kane is a pretty sorry, pathetic monster when he can't even win a damn match in about forver. He can squash small guys, but he can't win the big ones. So he lost to Matt Hardy now, and when is the last time Kane got a win on a PPV?
I just checked. Survivor Series, in the ambulance match against Shane McMahon. Since that match:

Lost a 3-way at Armageddon against Goldberg and HHH.
Eliminated at the Royal Rumble due to Undertakerís involvement.
Lost to Taker at Wrestlemania.
Lost to Edge at Backlash.
Lost to Benoit at Judgment Day.
Lost to Matt Hardy at Vengeance.

Kaneís kinda turning into Big Show 2002. Ostensibly a monster, but EVERYONE can beat him.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1930 days
Last activity: 1864 days
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.64
-The opener was really fun in its stupidity, and I'm amazed at how over in their respective roles both Coach and Tajiri are. Tajiri and Rhyno worked pretty nicely together as a team; give 'em a few more weeks to realy develop their chemistry and they'll be a nice addition to the slowly recovering tag team scene. I'm also feelin' Coach and Cade as a tandem, and would definitely advocate the two getting their hands on the gold and going on a Honky Tonk-esque streak of dodging defeat. Imagine the immense heat Coach continually clinging onto to a totally undeserved championsip would generate...**

-I'm not where this "Batista had a really bad match" sentiment seems to be coming from. I count maybe one serious stutter step in the entire bout (the botched low-bridge right at the start); after that he did a competent, if unspectacular, job of controlling the pace and working Jericho over. He also looked quite nifty in the closing sequence. **1/4

-The tag title match was weird. La Rez are getting on a role as the heel champs, but this match was so not aout them that it was ridiculous. And yet, I can't for the life of me figure out the purpose of all the Flair/Eugene interplay. It's clear that they're not going to become a semi-regular team, so why book it to protect them from doing the job? Hell, why book it at all? **

-I'm kind of disappointed in the outcome of the Kane/Hardy match, to be honest. The match itself did the right things, keeping Hardy just ticking over as a crazy face against the killer heel, but the cheap-o ending only made Kane look weak and Matt look lucky. A plucky but brutal loss to the monster would have worked far better, I think. **3/4

-There seems to be two very distinct schools of thought on the IC title match. I fall somewhere in the middle. I'm a big advocator of Orton (more on that momentarily) and I tihnk he showed some nice ability here, but all the same there portions of the match that dragged. I hardly think it's fair to label the bout at "twenty minutes of chinlocks and a hot finish" because there WAS more going on, for a good portion in the middle of the match, but that chinlock/bodyscissors spot was dragged out a wee bit too long. Still, I also tihnk it's off-base to put the two guys down for not improvising. Very few folks can do that and look convincing. ***1/2

-Okay, side rant on Orton: What is everyone's bizarre beef with him? WHo would you rather they push? Who is as over as him? Who has learnt as quickly as him? Shall we slot Val Venis in there? Has *he* proven he can work a half-hour match to main event standard? Or maybe Shelton Benjamin, a guy whose mainstream singles career has been going for a grand total of two months? Last night's match was in no way a perfect twenty-six minute match, but it was a damn sight better than almost ALL of the SmackDown roster could put on and better than 60% of the Raw side. Open for critisicm? Of course, and it certainly deserves some, but hey, there were two guys in there last night. And Hell, Orton's shown far more improvement toward ME status in the past six months than Edge has shown in the past *three years*. But nooooo, the fed WANTS us to accept him, so let's do our best to stamp our feet and fold our arms and pretend like he's the Antichrist. (PS. Scott-not directed at you. Good points, well backed-up). Also, lemme save you some time in replying: "It's our opinion, how dare you say we're just being contrary, waaaaa waaaaa waaaaa wah."

-The women's match suffered from the ol' dumbass card positioning, but Victoria worked her ass off to try and get it over. A nice little match where it could've been total throwaway rap. **

-The ME was a really, really strong match with some great rasslin', but I can't help but feel that that the Eugene shenanigans were far too overwrought. The same story could've been spelled out in a third of the time it took all those bumps and hinted turns, and I thought it hurt the actual finish a lot. Still, great stuff for the most part. ****



Once upon a time in China, some believe, around the year one double-ought three, head priest of the White Lotus Clan, Pai Mei was walking down the road, contemplating whatever it is that a man of Pai Mei's infinite power contemplates - which is another way of saying "who knows" - when a Shaolin monk appeared, traveling in the opposite direction. As the monk and the priest crossed paths, Pai Mei, in a practically unfathomable display of generosity, gave the monk the slightest of nods. The nod was not returned. Now was it the intention of the Shaolin monk to insult Pai Mei or did he just fail to see the generous social gesture? The motives of the monk remain unknown. What is known, are the consequences. The next morning Pai Mei appeared at the Shaolin Temple and demanded of the Temple's head abbot that he offer Pai Mei his neck to repay the insult. The Abbot at first tried to console Pai Mei, only to find Pai Mei was inconsolable. So began the massacre of the Shaolin Temple and all 60 of the monks inside at the fists of the White Lotus. And so began the legend of Pai Mei's five point palm exploding heart technique.
The Lurk
Cotechino








Since: 7.6.04

Since last post: 3681 days
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.64
    Originally posted by Phantom
      Originally posted by The Vile1
      Kane is a pretty sorry, pathetic monster when he can't even win a damn match in about forver. He can squash small guys, but he can't win the big ones. So he lost to Matt Hardy now, and when is the last time Kane got a win on a PPV?
    I just checked. Survivor Series, in the ambulance match against Shane McMahon. Since that match:

    Lost a 3-way at Armageddon against Goldberg and HHH.
    Eliminated at the Royal Rumble due to Undertakerís involvement.
    Lost to Taker at Wrestlemania.
    Lost to Edge at Backlash.
    Lost to Benoit at Judgment Day.
    Lost to Matt Hardy at Vengeance.

    Kaneís kinda turning into Big Show 2002. Ostensibly a monster, but EVERYONE can beat him.


But that's what makes a guy like Kane so valuable. By virtue of his size and intensity he can lose and lose and lose and still be billed as a credible threat to just about anyone. Same goes for Big Show.



You got to cry without weeping

Talk without speaking

Scream without raising your voice
SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1271 days
Last activity: 605 days
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.22
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Still, I also tihnk it's off-base to put the two guys down for not improvising. Very few folks can do that and look convincing.


Just having Edge play a subtle heel would've been fun. The crowd would've ate it up at the start and I actually think it could've gotten Edge's backers more vocal about it because he would've had a little more offense. I don't really blame them for not doing it, and I think they could've pulled it off just fine, I blame the WWE mindset of following the plan no matter what happens.



dotcom // cubs.org // let's go hero
Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2618 days
Last activity: 2618 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
I admit it, didn't see the PPV at all, I think I've suffered enough. However a friend, knowing how I felt about HHH-Foley, told me about the cardinal sin JR committed at Vengeance on the HIAC match that retired Cactus Jack. 2002, JR?! No, 2002 is the year I wish never happened in WWE (except Summerslam, of course).

Hell, you hear HHH go on and on about that match all the time, hell he even mentioned the date during his thing with Foley last year--February 23, 2000! He said it on Raw. The show you commentate on, cowboy! Okay, that was harsh, but the WWE can screw up their history all they want, but they will NOT do it with my fave feud of all time (second to Hart-Austin)!!




(edited by Ringmistress on 12.7.04 1444)

Suck it in, Hunter, or no sugar for you!
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3205 days
Last activity: 3205 days
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.04
    Originally posted by ScottChrist
      Originally posted by oldschoolhero
      Still, I also tihnk it's off-base to put the two guys down for not improvising. Very few folks can do that and look convincing.


    Just having Edge play a subtle heel would've been fun. The crowd would've ate it up at the start and I actually think it could've gotten Edge's backers more vocal about it because he would've had a little more offense. I don't really blame them for not doing it, and I think they could've pulled it off just fine, I blame the WWE mindset of following the plan no matter what happens.


That would be counter-productive if they have no intentions of turning either guy, though. Orton did the smart thing and by the end of the match, the crowd was going nuts and cheering for Edge. That was the objective of the match, not for Orton to get himself over as a face.

I think Edge is better suited to be a heel (guys resent the women screaming for him) but that's not what they want so I think it was better for them to stick to the plan.



WWE now serving only -> "DIET CHAVO - All the taste - Half the fat!"
SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1271 days
Last activity: 605 days
AIM:  
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.22
    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    That would be counter-productive if they have no intentions of turning either guy, though. Orton did the smart thing and by the end of the match, the crowd was going nuts and cheering for Edge. That was the objective of the match, not for Orton to get himself over as a face.


I'm just saying they could've had a much better match if they'd just gone with what the crowd wanted. I realize that in terms of what they're actually planning to do, it doesn't fit.

Maybe they should have intentions of turning either guy, since fans are getting increasingly pro-Orton because he's cool (it was bound to happen) and Edge has been hard to get behind doing what they've done with him.



dotcom // cubs.org // let's go hero
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3533 days
Last activity: 1953 days
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.25
-Tomko vs. Val- I don't think the match was too bad, it was clocked under 3-minutes. There was some difficulty with Val trying to put a half-nelson slam on Tomko but they eventually got the spot in and JR did a good job covering it up by saying Tomko tried to block it. But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Tomko is good LoL... Funny exchange between JR and King as King claims he can have a date with Trish almost any night of the week. As JR jumps in and wonders "I haven't read that on the internet". Lawler is getting his punchline in with "I almost got a date on Tuesday and almost got a date on Wednesday".

(Didn't see the first two matches, as "someone" forgot to hit the record button until half hour in. I usually would buy my own PPV, but I have to save my dimes to start my wrestling company so I can have an opinion on it. Matt Hardy said so... But I'll comment on Heat & must question the logic of having 2 diva search segments on your last chance to hype your PPV. You'd think those segments can be used to hype the PPV better. Well at least Matt is happy his match was well featured in the few segments not talking Divasearch so what's good for Matt is good for humanity. One other thing, what's the deal with Coach ALWAYS wrestling on PPV, this guy has the craziest PPV to non-PPV match ratio in wrestling history)

-La Resistance vs. Eugene/Flair- Eugene acting like Flair and Flair exaggerated hatred of it was enough to make this match worth it. Marks out as Eugene does the Flair flop (I think any other character mimicking Flair would get booed)Eugene was pretty much in control when he started the match, Flair tags in starts off strong but La Resistance takes control... They take a cheap shot on Eugene as he gets his head rammed to the STEEL steps as Eugene goes "Crazy" and gets his team DQ'ed. Flair actually looks a little defensive of Eugene, but I could be reading a little too much into it.

-Hardy vs. Kane- Matt has an odd definition of a match that will "get very ugly and very violent". Best word I'd describe it as pedestrian. Nothing of note really stood out. Matt clocked Kane with the bell, which was the extent of the hardcore "violence". JR & King spend most of the time wondering how ugly Lita's baby will be. Lita runs out and has to save her boyfriend again, what's worse then having your girlfriend have to save your from your battles? Your pregnant girlfriend saving you from your battles... The ending made Lita look oh so brave, but Kane looked stupid and Matt looks like a loser (which is ironic because he won). This is one of those scenarios that taking a vicious beating & going down in a heat of battle will make Matt look more legit and a man then a win like this. But then again that might be too much of a stretch for him.

-Edge vs. Orton- I didn't think it was as bad as some here are saying. I did kind of get distracted & interested in the Orton/Edge fans chanting for their guy, with the very distinct gender tone in their voice, but as the match went on Edge got some of the guys in the audience on his side. Edge goes for a Spear but Orton hits him with a high knee in a very good spot... I did whine in the past of the cheap-o type wins Orton got but those spots fooled me in this match as I thought when Edge hit the cross body & Orton rolled over with it along the rollup/grab the rope finish both fooled me. Edge goes for the Spear but nice vertical leap by Orton as Edge eats turnbuckle. End comes with Orton running into the exposed corner & Edge finally hitting his spear for the win. I don't mind Edge winning, but what's the deal with Orton crying? At times it looks like The E enjoy screwing with someone they build

-Victoria vs. Molly- Victoria sold her arm like an old school vet. Real nice moonsault by Victoria off the second rope onto the standing Molly... Beautiful looking superkick to finish the match. Victoria worked her shapely butt off in this match and I mean that in a nice atheltic positive way.

-Benoit vs. HHH- Crowd was really pro Benoit which is nice or as JR says anti-HHH (sigh). We that dive over the top by Benoit to Trips looked dangerous... The Eugene stuff made it seem somewhat of a cluster. But I must say as he stood over Benoit and HHH with the chair, I was glued and very much interested in the result.

-Sign of the Night: "Kane + Lita = Ugly Baby"
-Line of the Night: LAWLER "I can have a date with Trish almost any night of the week"... ROSS "I haven't read that on the internet"... LAWLER "I almost got a date on Tuesday and almost got a date on Thursday" (on Heat)
-3Stars of the Night: 1)Benoit. 2)Victoria. 3)Orton.

From what I saw I thought the PPV was good. The tag title match was fun for "entertainment" purposes. I was hooked for the IC title match, it wasn't match of the year, but it had a very strong finish and IMO good crowd interaction. The women match was one of Victoria best performances since her Trish matches of late 02/early 03... The World title finish was wrapped around mostly of storyline with Eugene, I think these two can do better but the match wasn't bad enough to turn me off of seeing these two. Worst match I saw on the PPV was the Matt/Kane hardcore match, which was anything but. With an ending that made me care even less of both men as performers.




smark/net attack wienerville advisory is raised to YELLOW alert - Elevated (JBL is the new WWE champion, good gawd hide under the desk. But Benoit is World Champion allowing some safety in the IWC)- 6/28
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I own the CD and I like it. Don't care if they were bad (in my mind vocals were the only thing really off anyways). I never base my listening pleasures based on live performance, though, either.
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