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The W - Pro Wrestling - Opinions on Vengeance
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Lap cheong

Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 3489 days
Last activity: 1095 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.64
GREAT match between Orton/Edge. Anyone who still has doubts about Orton, GET THIS PPV!

Main event was really good. I continue to LOVE the Eugene storyline. It's the first WWE storyline I've gotten into in a LONG time. It's just so great, and I still have no clue where it will go. Is Hunter going to turn on Eugene now? Or use him for a little longer until he gets his title. Or will Eugene see through Triple H? There's just so many places it can go, as opposed to the usual one-track, cookie-cutter WWE storylines.

Although, I still think it's certain that Hunter will get his belt back from Benoit at SummerSlam.

If I was booking, I'd let Randy Orton be the one to beat Benoit for the belt. I believe the WrestleMania 21 plan is to do Orton v. Hunter on top. So, I'd have Evolution turn on Hunter (he screwed everything up by letting Eugene in the group, so now they're mad). Then, Orton wins the belt, Hunter is the babyface chasing, and voila: Your WrestleMania main-event.

The rest of the card was just there.

(edited by OMEGA on 11.7.04 2313)

The answer to WWE's financial problems...

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Promote this thread!

Since: 6.10.02
From: Long Island, NY

Since last post: 1805 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.85
Craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap. Match of the night was the main at **3/4-***. Sadly, it was around ***1/2 before the whole Eugene mess at the end brough it down. Edge-Orton was about half an hour, the first 28 minutes being awful with 2 minutes of a hot finish. I actually almost nodded off during it. I'd say **1/4, **1/2 at the most, but the hot finish and the fact that both Edge and Orton are supposed to be HOT YOUNG STUDS will probably cause this to be overrated all over the place. Thoroughly mediocre PPV, and the main came off more as an advertisement for Raw at the end than anything else.


Spaceman Spiff

Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 122 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
Caught the Venis/Tomko match on Heat - whooo boy, if anyone needs to be sent back to OVW, it's Tomko. He was beyond atrocious. I'm no fan of Mordecai, but Mordy was 100x better than Tomko.

I, uh, didn't see Vengeance, either.

    If I was booking, I'd let Randy Orton be the one to beat Benoit for the belt

Orton is nowhere near ready to be champ.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 11.7.04 2316)


Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 543 days
Last activity: 428 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.62
It was a much better PPV than anticipated. I'm really surprised to see Matt Hardy go over, but I'm thinking he gets the snot beat out of him tomorrow night on RAW.

Edge & Orton was a solid match. You gotta wonder if that would have been Shelton had he not been hurt.

Did anyone else catch Heat? ... Tyson Tomko really needs to head back down to OVW with his ex-parter, Kevin "Mordecai" Fertig. He looked as lost as last year's Easter egg in there with Val Venis.

EDIT: Yeah, I just noticed that Spiff beat me to the Tomko topic by slightly over a minute.

(edited by Mayhem on 11.7.04 2217)

Go banana.

Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
Didn't watch Vengeance myself, but hey!

Benoit's still the champ! Matt beat Kane! Orton's Intercontinental Title reign is over! (Although why the hell does Edge get the belt?!? I would have waited for Shelton to return, myself.)

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Two-Time Wiener of the Day (5/27/02; 7/3/02)

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Shem the Penman

Since: 16.1.02
From: The Off-Center of the Universe (aka Philadelphia)

Since last post: 1812 days
Last activity: 1610 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
Am I the only one who picked Edge over Orton in the prediction thread? Why, yes, I think I am ... There, that'll be one step toward making up for all the OTHER lousy PPV picks I've made in the past.

The Eugene interference really killed what could've been a good match in Benoit/Trips, and it was a disappointing end to what had been a pretty good PPV so far.

Matt/Kane surprised me by mostly eschewing Sportz Entertainment stuff with Lita -- and by having Matt go over.

Orton/Edge might well have been the best match of either man's singles career. The only bad thing I can point to is that endless chinlock/bodyscissors spot, but the finish more than made up for it.

The two tag matches did what they had to do, and Flair was hilarious stonefacing his way through Eugene's "homages."

Molly/Victoria: Damn, that was a good job Victoria did of selling the arm -- it was just perfect when she lost her grip on the Widow's Peak.

Jericho/Batista was a little disappointing, I thought. Batista looked like he was off for some reason.

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Big Brother

Since: 9.12.01
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.07
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    Didn't watch Vengeance myself, but hey!
We REALLY don't need a lot of posts from people telling the world they didn't watch the PPV. REALLY.

Potato korv

Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 2876 days
Last activity: 2210 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.66
    Originally posted by OMEGA
    GREAT match between Orton/Edge. Anyone who still has doubts about Orton, GET THIS PPV!

I'm totally in disagreement. 20 minutes of chinlocks and some false finishes isn't a great match, in my opinion. The crowd was hot for Orton but they did nothing to improv and milk the crowd for what it wanted. The crowd really wanted to be into the match and instead they got two guys sitting on the mat for the majority of it. You could tell within two minutes that they were going to go long because they were doing absolutely nothing.

To combat Orton's devastating imitation mat wrestling, Edge threw clotheslines. That's about it. Then about 20 minutes in or so, they decided to amp it up. It had a great finishing few minutes, absolutely. I enjoyed Orton trying to use the same finish he beat Jericho with on Monday, and Edge kicking out. The missed spear looked great because Edge totally ate the turnbuckle and Orton's vertical is always impressive.

But the majority of the match was snooze city and they weren't even trying to change it. When the crowd would get restless, they didn't try to bring them back, they just sat there some more. The match was kind of a fraud in that sense, they waited and waited and waited until it was time to go and then they gave the impression that they'd just put on a classic. Very similar to the HHH/HBK HiaC match in that regard.

I love a good, long, mat-oriented match, but this was just eating time until their real match started, like the Foreplay to their Long Time.

dotcom // // let's go hero

Since: 21.2.04
From: New York

Since last post: 5143 days
Last activity: 5143 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.75
Just a quick note:
Did anyone notice at one point during Jericho/Batista, when Batista was supposed to be thrown threw the ropes, and he landed on them, so he made himself fall off. I was cracking up! Gotta love good Ol' Dave!

Orton/Edge would have been better if Orton won. Edge is just NOT ready to be back as a champ yet. No offense to Edge, but Orton is just overall better.
Also, the match got a little gay at one point... When Orton had the sleeper hold, and then put his leg over him. I didn't know what to think about that.

Benoit/Big Nose was great, until the Eugene part. WWE is going to burn Eugene out VERY soon if not careful. I also don't think that a chair should be the redeeming item which is used for a victory. Benoit is too good to be using a chair.


Since: 5.3.03

Since last post: 2094 days
Last activity: 2092 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.67
Kind of an odd card. Nothing terrible, but nothing great, either. Not that giving us unexpected finishes is necessarily a bad thing, it's just that I'm puzzled as to how they'll book SummerSlam, only a month away.

Tajiri and Rhyno Vs. Cade and Coach was harmless enough as an unscheduled opener. One question: who exactly was Coach EXPECTING to face as Tajiri's partner? I mean, who else was left on the roster? I'm glad that this 'search for Rhyno's partner' storyline has received some closure, and that two former members of the ECW 'Network' stable (at least I think they were both in the stable...) can make a run at La Resistance.

Jericho Vs. Batista was okay, nothing special, but I was a little surprised Batista got the (tainted) win.

Eugene and Flair Vs. La Rez was hilarious, exactly what the doctor ordered. I even called the "Eugene walks a few feet than falls on his face" spot seconds before it happened -- if only the camera had properly captured the moment. Even though I was pulling for the Odd Couple to come out on top, I can appreciate that they desperately need some REAL tag teams in there.

Matt Hardy Vs. Kane made sense to me. Keep the storyline alive a bit longer. Sure, why not? Decent match-up.

Edge Vs. Randy Orton went far too long for my liking, although the final five minutes or so were tremendous. I figured Edge would come out on top, but winning the belt was kind of a surprise to me. I was thinking SummerSlam was going to be HHH Vs. Edge, with Edge being the challenger. Guess not. Also, Randy Orton was going for quite the streak as I-C Champion. Seems silly for him to reliquish it now...

Victoria Vs. Molly Holly. Uhhh, yeah...

Benoit Vs. HHH - the decision surprised me, to say the least. I thought Trips deserved the title now, and really, who else can Benoit face now? I'll say this about the reappearance of Eugene: I REALLY think it's time for the guy to be seen a little less, especially in the main event picture. Yes, I understand what they were going for here, but the comedy sideshow really felt out of place here. I mean, what's next? A Eugene biography? The DVD? An All-Eugene PPV? I like the character, I really do, but I think the time has come to start toning it down. I doubt they'll listen.

Well, I only went 2 for 5 in my predictions this time round, which has to be an all-time low (the Rhyno and Victoria matches weren't on the card as of press time). Hopefully, the rest of my Online Onslaught team fared a little better in our battle against WrestleLine.

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Since: 12.5.04
From: new jersey

Since last post: 4891 days
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
I thought it was a good PPV. Orton/Edge was very good, HHH/Benoit was enjoyable, and made me interested to see where they go with Eugene next. And Flair was hilarious to me. His expressions when Eugene was trying on the robe, and entering the ring were genius, along with the line "what have you done to me?" The one complaint I have is the Kane/Matt match. This angle is not only painful to watch, but it has no end in site. Now I have to watch this trash until Summerslam, AT LEAST. I wish Vince would get rid of Lita.

(edited by bigredmachine29 on 11.7.04 2048)

Since: 23.3.04
From: Dublin, Ireland

Since last post: 5266 days
Last activity: 5109 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.73
As always, ripped straight from my column, which you can all access in my sig when it gets published on the site tomorrow:


I saw Vengeance as no better and no worse than the Great American Bash.

No, no, hear me out here folks. I fully understand Iím breaking 2004 IWC Cardinal Sin #1 by proclaiming RAW anywhere near the depths of utter apathy-inspiration levels displayed on SmackDown, but the point is that out of all four pay-per view Iíve found myself shelling out cash for this year (including GAB), I regret buying Vengeance the most.

If you think about it, NOTHING of interest happened. Edge won the Intercontinental Title, big whoop. Now I have to rest in the knowledge that not only is a shoo-in for a World Title shot one of the people Iím most apathetic to on the roster, but I also have to put up with him as my Intercontinental Champion. And yes, I realise that I predicted him for the win here, but it wasnít until the end of his title win that I realised just what I had let myself in for. Oh and thereís also the little matter of Matt Hardy defeating Kane. Sorry guys, but you lost me on this one a LONG time ago, and even this shocker seemed just out of place rather than up there with legendary 1-2-3 Kid-like upsets. And the main event, well weíll get to that in a second. Iíve got a bit to say about everything here, so why not run it down match-by-match?

Tajiri and Rhyno defeated The Coach and Garrison Cade via pinfall
Coach Ďní Cade are two of my favourite characters on the show and just compliment each other perfectly. Both sneaky, conniving heels with charisma to spare (although finding Cadeís is a treasure hunt in itself), and the concept of Tajiri and Rhyno teaming excited me greatly. WWE brought it about nicely, both putting an end to Rhynoís unofficial tag-team partner search and rounding the match off with the affirmation of a new era in RAWís tag-team division being born, yet while all of these things sound good on paper, everything just came off a bitÖflat, so to speak. It set the tone for the whole night really: slow, plodding and uninspired where it really shouldnít have been, and just felt like a Heat main event I was conned into paying for.

Batista defeated Chris Jericho via pinfall
Just terribly booked. Both men tried to get into it, but obviously had no idea what was expected of them until the abrupt ending. Youíd think for a pay-per view match, theyíd have an agent do more than breeze through the match beforehand saying ĎOkay Batista, you work the back and Jericho you play face-in-peril. You know what we have planned for the finish right? Great. Now good luckí. This was NOT the match that would Ďmakeí Batista as some predicted beforehand, and it was entirely not his fault. The guy was just booked to look like a plodding but dominating force, and believe me that got old by the time we saw Sid okay? As for Jericho, they really need to give him something to do. Two bleh matches in as many pay-per views, and again nothing he can do about it. The guy tries his hardest and the fans are just DYING to love him, but heís just not being put in the opportunity to provide for them. Thatís pretty much the story of Y2Jís career, no?

La Resistance defeated Eugene and Ric Flair via disqualification to retain the World Tag-Team Championship
This match just pissed me off. A wasted, wasted, wasted opportunity. Eugene was gold at the start imitating Flair, Naitch was excellent as always showing Eugene how it was done, and seemed particularly enthused about tonight, the fans were dying to get behind the makeshift Evolution pairing, but again the booking fucked it up. La Resistance got their heat segment of the match in on Flair, and it just kept going on and on and on, until Grenier pissed off Eugene enough to go crazy for all of 30 seconds and get himself disqualified. An abrupt ending to a meandering and overall cock-teasing (proverbially speaking of course) match. Goddamnit Vince can you get anything right tonight?Ö

Matt Hardy defeated Kane via pinfall in a No Disqualification Match
ÖObviously not. This COULDíVE been the sleeper match of the night. It COULDíVE been the turning point in the mess that is Litaís pregnancy, but why even bother dwelling on what couldíve been on a terrible night like this. Yes we GOT Kaneís confliction of caring too much about his lovechild to hurt Leeeta, but when probably the most shocking victory of 2004 (save Benjamin/Triple H) occurred, it was more like ĎOh-kay thení rather than ĎHOLY SHIT YEAH!!í Again, a common occurrence in Vengeance.

Edge defeated Randy Orton via pinfall to win the Intercontinental Championship
And just what the hell IS this? Randy Orton actually CRIED after losing his belt? Edge actually WON the belt? I meanÖI meanÖGOD! The match was a clusterfuck, desperately trying to be itís counterpart from RAW a few months ago that meshed the slow, deliberate and the fast, exciting paces to near-perfection, but it was just given TOO MUCH time here (and yes there is such a thing). It picked up towards the end, Iíll give it that, but it still felt like a half hour of one of the worst matches of the year, awkwardly clumped together with 5-6 minutes of one of the best. Iíd have to think twice (and to be honest Iím too tired and indifferent to do so at the moment) about awarding it worst match of the night honours, but I have no qualms in giving it the biggest disappointment tag, and I think youíll all agree.

Victoria defeated Molly Holly via pinfall to become #1 Contender for the Womenís Championship
With that said of the Edge/Orton affair, this took the honours as biggest surprise based on itís merits, albeit exceedingly low merits considering this was all but a better-than-average looking womenís match that I wasnít sure was even on the card until Mollyís music hit. Better than their WrestleMania affair, but that is to speak ill of the former encounter, rather than to speak well of this. It started out energetically and niftily enough, before creeping back into the slow, meandering and awkward pace that had become commonplace by now. At least we still had our title match though right?

Chris Benoit defeated Triple H via pinfall to retain the World Heavyweight Championship
I donít feel as if I can offer this biggest disappointment of the night, as after they had set the scene for the match, it was clear that this would serve as their advertisement for the SummerSlam rematch. They didnít play their best hand, which is fine given that they still maintained my attention in the feud assuming a rematch is where they are going, and added the Eugene aspect to give this match a purpose not based on unearthing itís potential quality. Iím still unsure as to whether the whole Eugene angle was crap or brilliant. Sure it had me enthralled as it happened, but in hindsight seems a little over-the-top and hokey. It definitely didnít have that inherent greatness exhumed by the rest of this Eugene saga that overrides how crap it really SHOULD be by all means, but I guess to fault it would be to nitpick. It was a bleh affair, but a bleh affair that has me both wanting Trips/Crips going full tilt, one-on-one down the line and progression, with a view to closure, on the Eugene/Evolution fling.

My Two Cents:
Okay so maybe I was a bit harsh on the show. Maybe I just didnít Ďget ití, but as the eternal optimist when it comes to all things WWE, I found an all-to-reoccurring trend of repetitiveness littering tonightís show. That feeling that weíre not getting the best we could be getting. I mean, at least when you watch a SmackDown show or PPV, you see the writerís AND wrestlerís going at everything they do with confidence and conviction, even if theyíre fighting a losing battle. Here, you had a ton of positives going for Vengeance, and all seem to fall flat of what couldíve been. Having to pay for my second show in as many weeks, my third in as many months (growing all too frequent for mine and any Irish or British viewerís liking), I feel as if Iím getting less bite for my buck. I justified my purchase of Backlash, the Great American Bash and this by the fact that I got WrestleMania XX for free, and yet I havenít felt that PPV feeling since Backlash faded to black. Instead, the past four shows have seemed to be little more than RAW or SmackDown plus another half hour or so.

All I have to say is that WWE can make it all worth it again if they provide the goods at SummerSlam. If they donít, Iím sure Iíll be less than receptive when the next two actual PAY-per views come around over here in October and December, trust me.

Powerwrestling News Central
Updated July 5th and it's all filler but still killer.

Leggo's Two Cents
Updated June 17th as Leggo says Enough Already to the IWC.
The Vile1
Lap cheong

Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 3561 days
Last activity: 3292 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.83
Well...I did get the PPV. So here we go:

Rhyno and Tajiri vs. Coach and Garrison Cade-Decent little filler match and the right guys went over. The tag team divison is dead for the most part on BOTH shows. So they have to make a cookie cutter tag team like Rhyno and Tajiri. Looks like they will go after La Resistance next since they retained their belts tonight.

Batista vs. Jericho-This turned out to be a pretty good match. I think Batista has really stepped it up lately and is showing improvement, and this was definitely his best singles match since he came into WWE...though you can probably chalk that up to Jericho who was able to carry slugs like Tomko, Scott Steiner, and Goldberg to watchable bouts. Good match, and some good ring psychology with Batista going after Jericho's back leading up to his winning of the match with his sit-out powerbomb. Real lame-ass finish though with Jericho having his foot on the rope and Batista getting the pin like that. Batista should've just gotten the clean pin, but he gets the only declared victory for Evolution tonight.

Eugene and Flair vs. La Resistance-Another cookie cutter tag team going up agains the tag team champions. This turned out to be a pretty decent match with Eugene mimicking all of Flair's mannerisms and maneuvers and coming out in the Nature Boy robe. Flair was really on tonight and the crowd was behind him 100% so that was pretty cool. Yet another screwy lameass finish which saw Eugene knocking the referee down giving the tag team champs the win by DQ and retaining their titles.

Kane vs. Matt Hardy-This was a NO DQ match huh? Could've fooled me. A pretty dull match with very little in the way of bumping and actual taking advantage of the no dq stipulation. But one thing is official folks. Kane is officially the WWE's number one jobber. Kane is a pretty sorry, pathetic monster when he can't even win a damn match in about forever. He can squash small guys, but he can't win the big ones. So he lost to Matt Hardy now, and when is the last time Kane got a win on a PPV? This storyline is STILL STUPID! But I do like Matt Hardy and it was kind of cool seeing him win on PPV for once, still dull match though.

Edge vs. Orton-Really weird match that went on probably about 5-10 minutes longer than it should have. The crowd was even chanting boring during some spots. And what was up with the crowd? Through most of the match they were pretty pro-Orton and pretty much behind him. There were a couple spots where the crowd was chanting for Edge, but they died rather quickly. Is this a sign that WWE will groom Randy Orton as the next Rock after a seven month IC title reign? Anyway, way too many chinlocks and restholds in this match. Some good final minutes having Edge kicking out of all illegal moves Orton used to win before and Orton kicking out of the Edge-a-cution. Edge wins his fifth IC title after whipping Orton into an exposed steel boat and spearing him for a 3 count. So what now? Does Edge go after the rest of Evolution? Batista and Flair? Or straight to HHH at Summerslam?

Molly vs. Victoria-pretty odd place to put the #1 contender's match for the women's title. But I suppose the audiences needed a match to go and piss or get a snack before the main event. Victoria beats Molly once agains after a boring match to earn the title shot. Next please.

HHH vs. Chris Benoit-The match started out really good. HHH was relentlessly going after Benoit's chest and sternum, so some good ring psychology there. Benoit makes HHH tap again without the ref present. Oy vey, a really goofy stupid final minutes with Eugene and all of Evolution coming out, which saw the conclusion with Eugene accidentally hitting HHH with the chair allowing Benoit to roll him up for the win. I was really surprised that Benoit won, and I'm happy about that. Great match overall, with some silly shit at the end, but Benoit won so that's cool.

So what next? Who will Benoit fight at Summerslam? Or will HHH get a title rematch within the next couple of weeks and defend it against Edge in his hometown in 5 weeks? Or will Benoit remain champion while Randy Orton is groomed as his next opponent. Randy Orton is the only guy in Evolution Benoit has not fought one on one. It'd be a fresh match and a fresh feud, but I dunno if WWE wants to push him that far yet. Or will they do another big gimmick main event for the world title at Summerslam like a Hell In a Cell or Elimination chamber? Seeing as to how the RAW roster is thinning out, they might not want to put all their best singles wrestlers in one match.

The best way I can sum up Eugene...he is this year's Zack Gowen. Remember what happened to Gowen? Exactly. This angle just gets sillier every week, and it doesn't look like its done with yet.

(edited by The Vile1 on 11.7.04 2106)

(edited by The Vile1 on 12.7.04 1940)

"Don't compare my arm to your cheap arm!"
-Edward Elric
Lap cheong

Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 3489 days
Last activity: 1095 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.64
    Originally posted by The Vile1
    So what next? Who will Benoit fight at Summerslam? Or will HHH get a title rematch within the next couple of weeks and defend it against Edge in his hometown in 5 weeks? Or will Benoit remain champion while Randy Orton is groomed as his next opponent. Randy Orton is the only guy in Evolution Benoit has not fought one on one. It'd be a fresh match and a fresh feud, but I dunno if WWE wants to push him that far yet.

Most seem to think that it'll be Hunter/Benoit in a rematch. However, earlier today I was thinking of the possibility of Benoit v. Orton and Hunter v. Eugene. Not sure if that's the way they're gonna' go, but it's a thought.

The answer to WWE's financial problems...

Never 'Wiener of the Day', and is actually quite bitter about it.

Since: 2.1.02
From: Central Florida, somewhere between Orlando and Tampa, U.S.A.

Since last post: 1083 days
Last activity: 398 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.39
Holy crap, ScottChrist pretty much nailed my opinion on the Edge/Orton match. Though I will swear on a stack of Bibles that at least one crowd chant during that match was "Let's go, Whalers!" Edge/Orton was a good 10-minute match that someone decided to make a 20-to-25-minute match with only 10 minutes of material. Though thank God the belt's off Orton and the Jesus/Superman push "ends" for one night, at least.

And the screwed up thing is that I barely sat down to directly watch the PPV tonight. Spent a bunch of time at my computer, handling stuff, with the PPV somewhat visible from my computer desk and otherwise playing in the background.

A few other random thoughts:
Cade/Coach vs. Tajiri/Rhyno - there was a point to this match, right?

Jericho vs. Bautista - not a bad match. Maybe it's my intense hatred of Randy Orton a la X-pac heat, but I rather prefer him to Orton at this point.

Tag Title Match - boy, is my finger clearly not on the pulse of the audience as far as Eugene goes. My only hope is that this whole Eugene gimmick will burn out and totally lose any fuel it has left with this whole HHH/Evolution/Benoit thing. If Flair keeps getting stuck with wrestlers like Eugene, then Flair's second book will clearly be as much of a letdown as Foley's second book was.

Matt Hardy vs. Kane - from one of the inventors of the tag team ladder match and an icon in TLC history, and a former Hardcore champion in Kane, the no-DQ match was.... underwhelming. No ladders, no tables (which the crowd demanded), no sheer sense of anything goes.

Victoria vs. Molly, Part MCMLXXXVIII - actually a decent little match. Victoria's new theme song has to go, but between her and Edge, problems with poor choices in entrance music seems to be a recurring problem in the WWE today. Dig the tear-away clothes, though. But good God, if the WWE had actually put a little promotion and backstory behind the whole #1 contender angle, the crowd might have been a little more into the match.

World Title Match - thank God Benoit's won. This makes his title reign longer than Goldberg's, though I'm a little concerned that the WWE might try to give it back to HHH at Summerslam. I'd really like to see the belt on Benoit until at least Survivor Series. It's been too long since RAW's had a long-reigning face World Champ - and if it continues to Survivor Series, that's really only 8 months, and isn't that completely sad that such a length of time can actually be considered long-reigning? I could really do without the whole clusterfuck and Eugene stuff, though.

Bottom line? This was a really good RAW - but not worth my $34.95. I'm not sure I've felt that way since Armegaddon 2003.

THE CONSPIRACY FAILS - Randomly Selected Wiener, er, I guess, "W" of the Day, August 13, 2002


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Since: 15.6.03
From: Eire

Since last post: 4814 days
Last activity: 4792 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.79
Very averege PPV, Orton/Edge was good but by no means great, unfortunatley the event was under-booked and Orton and Edge had to stretch their match to fill PPV time which is a pity, hopefully a solid 15 min rematch on Raw would be what im lookin for. Mian Event was good and the ending made it better in my opinion, which way Eugene would swing the chair had me hooked. Great stuff, loving the storyline.

Rest of the card was averege, SummerSlam should be excellent thougt with a hot crowd in Toronto.

P.S. What's with JR saying that Y2J is he first undidputed champion since 1960? What happened to the FIRST EVER undisputed champion stuff?

The Sham

Since: 20.1.02
From: Hamden, CT

Since last post: 3273 days
Last activity: 2625 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.43
I just got back from seeing Vengeance live at the half-demolished Hartford Civic Center. Well, they're tearing the mall off the back of it, not tearing down the building, but it sure looks like crap on the side the cameras didn't show you.

At the CC, you've got your floor seats and your standard 100 level seats. Then, at either short end are your 300 level seats with 200 level seats on the long sides. Of course, the entrance ramp cuts out one end of the arena, but the 300 level seats at the opposite end were also tarped. On the non-camera side, all of the 200 level seats were tarped, as well as the back few rows of 100 level seats.

On the camera side, where I sat, all of the rows in the 200 level past row CC were tarped. This puzzled me, since I was supposed to have cheap seats in row GG. Oh well. I found seats in row L.

This was the first WWE event I've been to where they decided to skip the National Anthem. I thought that was odd. Is this the policy now?

There isn't much to report that wasn't apparent from the broadcast (as far as I can tell). But I should tell you what happened during Orton/Edge: The crowd went to pee. Honestly, it was weird. People actually waited for the match to start and then left. The opening was fun, but I was surprised to hear that Hartford was really backing Orton. The little kids in my section were audibly upset. I was puzzled. Then, during the middle part of the match, everyone came back to their seats and realized how boring the match was. It nearly killed the crowd. I was a fan of the opening, but even as a fan who's supposed to appreciate psychology, I was bored.

The "boring" chants came pretty quickly. I didn't notice any "Let's go Whalers chants," though. When the match started up again, the crowd was definitely hot for Edge. I think the Orton fans had decided not to pee during the opening and when the arena was back to it's contingent for the night, the casual fans rooted for the face.

I think I was the only Molly fan in the arena. Oh well. I tried. Did you hear me?

The crowd loved HHH, but I was glad to see they loved Benoit even more. The crowd also liked the Eugene interaction. I don't know if he'll burn out soon, but Eugene definitely popped the Hartford crowd.

After the cameras stopped rolling, HHH tried to get up. He raised his fist in moral victory to a big boo and then did a Flair Flop. Batista and Flair helped him backstage. I wonder if Orton will be punished for not coming to HHH's aid? If Orton lost his belt and didn't help out a satablemate in peril in the same night, isn't there a chance he'll be kicked out of Evolution? Maybe he'll start his feud with HHH earlier than expected.

I hope J.R. was pissed Hebner missed Jericho's foot on the rope. We were. Also, if you're going to DQ someone in a PPV tag match, shouldn't it be for a chair shot or brass knuckles or SOMETHING? Did the announcers speculate as to why Eugene was disqualified? I mean, I know he wasn't the legal man, but you never get DQed for fighting out of turn in a tag match. Did I miss a ref bump?

Anyway, I enjoyed myself, but it's hard not to when you're there live. No t-shirt cannon, though. That put a little damper on the evening. I've got my nice, new "Addicted to the Heat" t-shirt, though, so I can't complain too much.

(edited by The Sham on 12.7.04 0053)

- Jeb Tennyson Lund, 1/20/04

Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

Since last post: 38 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.89
Really, it felt like a 3-hour RAW. Nothing terrible, but nothing *great* either.

I got to the restaurant late that shows the PPV- came in halfway through the Jericho/Batista match. What I saw was decent.

Eugene and Flair v.s La Resistance was fun when Eugene was in there, but didn't really click when they tried to do a straight match, except for Flair yelling "Now it's time to go to school!"

Kane v.s Matt Hardy was okay. You knew Lita was going to get involved somehow. Good to see Matt get the win.

Edge v.s Orton was a bit too long, and I honestly would've kept the belt on Orton. But they want to make Edge a world title contender, so huzzah to them. Real slow build up hurt the match.

Victoria v.s Molly was a pretty decent women's match. Either one would've been a solid choice for #1 contender, and since Trish is a heel, it makes sense going with the face Victoria.

Trips v.s Benoit was probably the best match on the card. Really solid match, and the dive by Benoit outside the ring looked painful. The ending set up some interesting questions for RAW- does Trips rip Eugene, or still keep pretending to be his friend? Will Eugene forgive Benoit? Will Benoit forgive Eugene?

(edited by geemoney on 12.7.04 0103)

Spiderman 2 thoughts and more!: Experience It

Since: 10.4.02
From: New York City, NY

Since last post: 2470 days
Last activity: 1236 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.59
    Originally posted by hhhgamewmx7
    P.S. What's with JR saying that Y2J is he first undidputed champion since 1960? What happened to the FIRST EVER undisputed champion stuff?

Maybe it was some reference to Lou Thesz. My dates may be off, but in 1963 Thesz was the undisputed NWA Champion (which was recognized by the Northeast territory, i.e. the McMahon Family). After Thesz defeated Buddy Rogers, McMahon broke away from the NWA and started the WWWF. They named Rogers as it's new champion after claiming he beat Antonio Rocca in a tournament in South America (that never occured).

"Well, you can't involve friendship with business. It has to be one or the other. It's either business or friendship, or hit the bricks!"
--Life Lessons from "The Tao of Bobby the Brain Heenan" Uncensored 2000 preview

"As long as the check don't bounce, I guess he's okay with it!"
--Former All Pro Giants LB Harry Carson on Bill Parcells joining the hated rival Dallas Cowboys


Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.83
I was there live at the CC. There really is not much I can tell you all match by match that hasn't been written already except to echo the comments on Orton/Edge. It was D-E-A-D for the first 20 minutes. And I mean really dead. In the section I was in, by the time Orton applied his THIRD CHINLOCK OF DOOM, you could audibly hear people around me daying "Come on already" and "this is so weak" and "this match sucks". There were boring chants and yes I heard the Let's Go Whalers chant. I engaged a couple of guys next to me in conversation about Orton and they said they hate him and do not understand why he is champ because his matches are boring and his mic work is awful. I aksed who they were rooting for and they said Edge, but only because they hate Orton. They do not like Edge and one guy said he liked the old Edge of E&C but hates the new Edge, but he hates Orton more. I asked them who they wanted to be IC Champ, and they both said Benjamin. Liked his style and his attitude. One of the guys said he was a bad motherfucker (or course, this led to the signing of the Shaft theme song). They were not big time into wreslting and did not follow it on the internet. They just said they like matches that move quick and that tell kind of a story but that gets the crowd going. Around this time the match picked up and then Edge won, so my new friends were happy.

Inigo Montoya: Who are you?

Westley: No one of consequence.

Inigo Montoya: I must know...

Westley: Get used to disappointment.

Inigo Montoya: 'kay.
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