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The W - Baseball - One of the Absolute Worst Screwing In Major League Baseball History (Page 3)
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Kevintripod
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Since: 11.5.03
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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.79
    Originally posted by JimBob Skeeter
    Leyland wants fans to cheer errant ump today, not boo.
    Tigers manager Jim Leyland is calling for cheers – not boos – for umpire Jim Joyce before this afternoon’s series finale against the Cleveland Indians.

    Leyland added that Galarraga would present the lineup card and shake hands with Joyce at home plate before the afternoon game.



Very classy move by Leyland and Galarraga.



StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.72
    Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
    So he lost one piece of history and got another. Is it really THAT big of a deal?

Yes, it is. Unless you think going down in history as the recipient of one of the worst/most unfortunate calls in sports history is somehow equivalent to being one of only a couple dozen people to ever accomplish a feat. Pay attention.

- StingArmy
Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
From: Greenacres FL

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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.04
    Originally posted by StingArmy
      Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
      So he lost one piece of history and got another. Is it really THAT big of a deal?

    Yes, it is. Unless you think going down in history as the recipient of one of the worst/most unfortunate calls in sports history is somehow equivalent to being one of only a couple dozen people to ever accomplish a feat. Pay attention.

    - StingArmy


He still gets paid the same amount of money. Everyone knows he threw a perfect game regardless of what this theoretical 'record book' says. When's the last time you read the baseball 'record book'? Can you name all the pitchers that threw a perfect game?



http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/recognition/9471.html


http://www.runningondew.com


"I think that in five years, Orton is far more likely to be in Billy Gunn Land than being a major player in WWE." - Big Bad - 11/22/03
Joseph Ryder
Head cheese








Since: 19.3.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.47
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
      Originally posted by JimBob Skeeter
      Leyland wants fans to cheer errant ump today, not boo.
      Tigers manager Jim Leyland is calling for cheers – not boos – for umpire Jim Joyce before this afternoon’s series finale against the Cleveland Indians.

      Leyland added that Galarraga would present the lineup card and shake hands with Joyce at home plate before the afternoon game.


    Very classy move by Leyland and Galarraga.

Joyce, Leyland and Galarraga have been the embodiment of class through this whole thing. I'm not sure how classy the Detroit fans are/were today, but I hope they collectively think more along the lines of those three and Reverend J Shaft and less like BoromirMark or redsoxnation.

It's all been sort of bittersweet. Seeing how well Galarraga handled it, him being the only one affected by the call, was very nice and rewarding. Just smile somewhat incredulously and get the next guy out. Seeing the overreaction by many others has been kind of pathetic. I hope none of them coach little league baseball or attend games.



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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
Selig issued a statement saying basically "yeah, its messed up that he missed the call, but I am not overturning it".
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.29
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Selig issued a statement saying basically "yeah, its messed up that he missed the call, but I am not overturning it".



Link: Commissioner Bud Selig says he'll look at expanded instant replay in wake of blown call


    A baseball official familiar with the decision confirmed to The Associated Press that the call was not being reversed. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because that element was not included in Selig's statement.


So the right thing to do is to overturn what's essentially a freak incident and NOT institute replay because of it and it looks like we're about to get the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of that. The blown call will stand, but we'll get replay instituted so that the games take another hour to complete, because they just aren't long enough already.

Way to go, Bud. Swing and a miss...again.

(edited by It's False on 3.6.10 1343)

BoromirMark
Potato korv








Since: 8.5.02
From: Milan-Ann Arbor, MI

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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.60
    Originally posted by Joseph Ryder
    I'm not sure how classy the Detroit fans are/were today, but I hope they collectively think more along the lines of those three and Reverend J Shaft and less like BoromirMark or redsoxnation.


Please point out where in my post that I railed against Jim Joyce. You won't find it, because I'm not aiming vitriol at him. He screwed up, causing Galarraga to be robbed of his rightful perfect game. That is a statement of fact. But it was a mistake on his part and anyone who sees just how deeply Joyce feels about that mistake, knows he can not be the target of bile.

Where I will stray from the example of Leyland and Galrraga (who both have shown themselves to be supreme gentlemen, classy and worthy of praise) is as concerns Bud Selig. Jim Joyce made a mistake, but it's a correctable one. The correction does absolutely nothing to hurt baseball, the integrity of baseball, seasonal stats, it hurts NOTHING. Not correcting the error leaves a blight on the game, on the integrity of the game, and on Armando Galarraga's career. The only correct, acceptable choice is to correct Joyce's mistake. And it appears Selig is not going to do that. His reign as commissioner has been one lacking in backbone, one mired in waffling and non-decisions and inaction. Selig is a boneheaded loser, a SoB, and is now jumping up to compete with Gary Bettman as the worst commissioner in sports, possibly in all of history.




Michigan against the SEC: 20-5-1 (7-3 in bowl games)

Sec19Row53
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Oconomowoc, WI

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#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.04
    Originally posted by It's False
    Link: Commissioner Bud Selig says he'll look at expanded instant replay in wake of blown call


      A baseball official familiar with the decision confirmed to The Associated Press that the call was not being reversed. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because that element was not included in Selig's statement.


    So the right thing to do is to overturn what's essentially a freak incident and NOT institute replay because of it and it looks like we're about to get the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of that. The blown call will stand, but we'll get replay instituted so that the games take another hour to complete, because they just aren't long enough already.

    Way to go, Bud. Swing and a miss...again.

    (edited by It's False on 3.6.10 1343)

Because we all know that this review would have taken so long to get right [/sarcasm] I get that you hate Selig, but what's so wrong about increased replay (if done correctly)? I don't want to hear about games taking another hour, I'm loking for a real answer.

Seriously, you're so wrong on this it isn't funny. The right thing ISN'T to retcon the ending of the game, even though the call was blown. The right thing is to prevent it from happening again in the future. Where you CAN fault Bud is for failure to see this coming (in some way, shape or form) earlier and have expanded replay already in place.
BoromirMark
Potato korv








Since: 8.5.02
From: Milan-Ann Arbor, MI

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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.60
How is it NOT the right thing to do to correct Joyce's mistake? It hurts NOTHING. There's no "integrity" for the game of baseball to lose. There's no "retconning". Correcting Joyce's mistake does not affect the outcome of the game, it is still a Tigers victory. So it does not unduly affect standings. It does not affect stats except to take away one single hit. It does not affect the game of baseball in ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.

Not correcting the game? It robs Armando Galarraga of his rightful perfect game. It affects the integrity of the game by leaving a large festering blight on its history and on its handling of umpires. It continues to negatively affect the life of Jim Joyce. It alienates fans towards the administration of Major League Baseball. There is simply no argument to be made against correcting the call, yet Selig is standing pat. Again.

(edited by BoromirMark on 3.6.10 1729)



Michigan against the SEC: 20-5-1 (7-3 in bowl games)

It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.29
There were mainly two sides to the argument from last night: I said they should reverse the call and kwik said later that to reverse the call would remove the judgment call aspect of umpiring. Selig threw a pie in the face of both arguments by refusing to reverse the call and by talking about instituting replay, which would remove the idea of judgment calls.

To institute replay because of this is reactionary. It's unnecessary, because this kind of thing never really happens. How often does a team actually lose a game on a blown call? The closest example I can think of was the ALCS last year where the Aybar call at 2nd base was blown (and the right team still wound up winning that night), but other than that, it's rare. It's even rarer for a guy to lose a perfect game because the umpire didn't get it right. It's one thing if this type of thing happened all the time, but it doesn't. Throwing in more replay is not necessary and serves to eat more time and resources. Maybe extending the game another hour is an exaggeration, but MLB's priority should be in trying to shorten games, not lengthen them (regardless of how inconsequential the lengthening is).

And to add to Borormir's argument, would fixing a blown call REALLY kill baseball's integrity anymore than letting an egregious call stand?

(edited by It's False on 3.6.10 1436)

JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.54
    Originally posted by BoromirMark
    Selig is a boneheaded loser, a SoB, and is now jumping up to compete with Gary Bettman as the worst commissioner in sports, possibly in all of history.


Gary Bettman broke the players union. Bud Selig kowtows to them. Selig stinks. Gary Bettman rules.
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.68
    Originally posted by BoromirMark
    Not correcting the error leaves a blight on the game, on the integrity of the game, and on Armando Galarraga's career.
Oh, come on. I mean, listen to yourself. This isn't the Black Sox scandal here. The great American pastime will somehow survive even this.
    Originally posted by BoromirMark
    Correcting Joyce's mistake does not affect the outcome of the game, it is still a Tigers victory. So it does not unduly affect standings. It does not affect stats except to take away one single hit. It does not affect the game of baseball in ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.
You're a real purist.

Actually, by its very definition, you know what would *really* "not affect the game of baseball in ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM?" DOING NOTHING.



BoromirMark
Potato korv








Since: 8.5.02
From: Milan-Ann Arbor, MI

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#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.53
You're right, of course. But through the snark aimed at my emotional posting, you didn't address the issue. Not doing anything of course means nothing happens, nothing changes. But what is the benefit of that? What does it do except just that, nothing? It keeps Jim Joyce's turmoil going, it keeps that perfect game off of Armando Galarraga's record, it keeps history from being written. Doing nothing in fact does something; it hurts the game of baseball, and the lives of Jim Joyce and Armando Galarraga.

When there's a simple solution that does not hurt anything but heals the wound, the only correct decision is to implement that solution.




Michigan against the SEC: 20-5-1 (7-3 in bowl games)

Joseph Ryder
Head cheese








Since: 19.3.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 1233 days
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#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.47
    Originally posted by BoromirMark
    Please point out where in my post that I railed against Jim Joyce.

Please point out where in my post that I said you railed against Jim Joyce. You won't find it cause blah blah blah...

It was more your statements like "worst screw job in mlb history", "worst commissioner in mlb history", "utter disgrace", "gut punch to a whole city", "highway robbery", etc...you were simply representing the people who need to calm the fuck down.

For those who want to start overturning calls...is this a one-time thing or will this also apply to future "2 outs in the 9th inning of a no-hitter or perfect game" type scenarios? Or will it also apply to blown calls that actually affect the outcome of games? Playoff games? Because once you do it, you're saying you're open to doing it again. And some would argue that blown calls that actually DO affect games (esp playoff games!) are the ones that need overturning, not one that merely rewrites a bit of baseball trivia. Especially since the pitcher in question seems fine with everything.

    Originally posted by It's False
    How often does a team actually lose a game on a blown call? The closest example I can think of was the ALCS last year where the Aybar call at 2nd base was blown (and the right team still wound up winning that night), but other than that, it's rare.

Last night the M's beat the Twins on a blown call.



I run (and tweet!)
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

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#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.09
    Originally posted by BoromirMark
    It keeps Jim Joyce's turmoil going, it keeps that perfect game off of Armando Galarraga's record, it keeps history from being written. Doing nothing in fact does something; it hurts the game of baseball, and the lives of Jim Joyce and Armando Galarraga.


Bud Selig overturning the call does not change the fact that Jim Joyce missed the call - his "turmoil" not withstanding.

Frankly, I hate the idea of a call on the field being overturned by a commissioner simply because it's the "popular thing" to do, because, well, pretty much all of this:

    Originally posted by Joseph Ryder
    ...is this a one-time thing or will this also apply to future "2 outs in the 9th inning of a no-hitter or perfect game" type scenarios? Or will it also apply to blown calls that actually affect the outcome of games? Playoff games? Because once you do it, you're saying you're open to doing it again. And some would argue that blown calls that actually DO affect games (esp playoff games!) are the ones that need overturning, not one that merely rewrites a bit of baseball trivia.


(That's what I get for grabbing my afternoon coffee instead of posting.)

Blown calls are a part of the game. The fact that this was a particularly nasty miss is (more) unfortunate (than most missed calls), but thems the breaks.




Who likes the little little duckies in the pond? I do, I do, I do, a chicka-quack quack.

That's Mr. WSLC to you.
Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

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#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.66
    Originally posted by Leroy

    Blown calls are a part of the game. The fact that this was a particularly nasty miss is (more) unfortunate (than most missed calls), but thems the breaks.


I hate this argument. What is the point of a competition between two teams if the winner might be decided on something other than the respective abilities of said teams? Might as well not keep score then.

And I don't buy the argument that it's going to make games so much longer.
In http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEfNd-pPuPI , it takes 30 seconds from the time the play is made before they show the slow motion replay that proves the call was wrong. If an umpire sat up in the booth and just watched the live feed, he could have reversed that call in under a minute. To me that would be a fine use of time.
Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 56 min.
#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.05
OK, I went ahead and wrote my song on this, or at least a first draft. I know most of you probably aren't familiar with the song, but you can catch a live version on YouTube if you're interested. As I say, it's a first draft, so I'm open to suggestions on improving it. While the original clearly has an opinion--that Harvey Haddix should be credited with a perfect game, which I'm inclined to agree with--I'm still not sure how I feel about things here, and the song reflects that.


June second, two thousand ten,
In Detroit on the mound,
Armando Galaragga was mowing them down.
Twenty four came up, and twenty four had gone,
Eight innings in the book and not a man had gotten on.

Now, in history only twenty men have thrown a perfect game,
A most exclusive club, and a most exalted fame,
A long fly ball to center made the Tiger fans' hopes dive,
But Austin Jackson made the catch to keep the dream alive.

David Wells, David Cone,
Sandy Koufax, Cy Young,
Jim Bunning, Tom Browning,
Charlie Robertson,
Don Larsen in the series in 1956,
Would Galaragga make it to that list?

Mike Redmond up, Mike Redmond out, Jason Donald up,
He slapped a bouncing grounder which Miguel Cabrera caught.
He tossed the ball to Armando who stepped on the bag first,
A cheer quickly erupted and then just as quickly burst.

"Out" was what everyone saw, but "safe" the umpire said,
Even Jason Donald placed his hands upon his head.
Leyland rushed to argue and the fans were getting riled,
But what was done was done, and Armando simply smiled.

David Wells, David Cone,
Randy Johnson, Addie Joss,
Kenny Rogers, Mike Witt,
Dennis Martinez,
Don Larsen in the series in 1956,
But Galarraga's chance had just been missed.

A perfect game is pitched, they say, but maybe that's not true,
For the fielders and the umpires need to be perfect too.
Sometimes no matter what you do you just can't catch a break,
Sometimes you pick the worst of times to make that rare mistake.

The ump knew he was wrong and he was not the sort to lie,
He said that he was sorry and he walked away to cry.
It's just the kind of thing that having replay would prevent.
Or is this what they mean by the human element?

Mark Buehrle, Dallas Braden,
Lee Richmond, Monte Ward,
Len Barker, Roy Halladay,
And Catfish for the A's,
Don Larsen in the series in 1956
If I were Galarraga, I'd be pissed.

David Wells, David Cone,
Sandy Koufax, Cy Young,
Jim Bunning, Tom Browning,
Charlie Robertson,
Don Larsen in the series in 1956,
If I were Galarraga I'd be pissed.

If I were Galarraga I'd be pissed.
If I were Galarraga I'd be pissed.
If I were Galarraga I'd be pissed.


kwik
Summer sausage








Since: 5.9.02
From: Norwich, NY

Since last post: 27 days
Last activity: 1 day
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#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.98
    Originally posted by BoromirMark


    When there's a simple solution that does not hurt anything but heals the wound, the only correct decision is to implement that solution.


Let's look at this another way.

There is already a mechanism in place for the official scorer of the game to retroactively change hits to errors and vice versa, for 24 hours after the conclusion of the game. Had the scorer in Detroit found some way, any possible way out there to change that hit to an error, meaning that Galarraga would have wound up with at least a no-hitter, would that have been all right? It was really only brought up in passing in a lot of areas, and I'm sure the scorer at Comerica really tried to pull this off.

My issue is not so much with the decision- yeah, that kid DID throw a perfect game, and he should get the recognition of that, but going back and changing it, just rubs me the wrong way, and I'll happily be called a stick-in-the-mud (or worse) purist for it. Oddly, though, I'd have been perfectly fine with that hit magically becoming an error this morning.



Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 3 hours
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#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.09
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    I hate this argument. What is the point of a competition between two teams if the winner might be decided on something other than the respective abilities of said teams? Might as well not keep score then.


We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Would you be in favor of eliminating umpires entirely if it meant increasing the "purity" of the competition?

The game is called by umpires. That's part of the game - and their errors are just as much apart of the competition as errors committed by the players.



Who likes the little little duckies in the pond? I do, I do, I do, a chicka-quack quack.

That's Mr. WSLC to you.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 53 days
Last activity: 26 days
#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.73
    Originally posted by Leroy
    The game is called by umpires. That's part of the game - and their errors are just as much apart of the competition as errors committed by the players.

Just because something *is* doesn't mean it *should be*. And it certainly doesn't mean it *has to be* when we have viable options to correct it.

- StingArmy
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