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The W - Music - Oh dear lord do I hate Nirvana
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cdstunner
Loukanika








Since: 25.1.02
From: parts unknown

Since last post: 4509 days
Last activity: 4411 days
#1 Posted on
Flame me all you want, but I cannot stand Nivana. I never have and I never will. I just got into a heated argument with some kid in my office who thinks that they were/are the greatest band of all time, oh wait, he said greatest punk band of all time. That made me spit out my cofee. I can deal with someone who says that they liked them because they were into the music, but this ass was saying how Kurt was a revolutionary and a roll model. A couple of problems here. first off, the music, IMO, was not that good. They had a couple of hooks and some weird lyrics and that's about it. I still blame that idiot Cobain for the "I'm so bitter and sad" style of songwriting today. Secondly, revolutionary? I don't think so. If your talking about the "grunge" look, check out the back of a CCR album. If your talking about the songs, wierd lyrics and uninteligible singing do not a revolutionary make. You have to stand for something, which Nirvana did not, unless you count angrying up disenfranchised misfits. As far as being a role model, one word, junkie.



"I could be home right now, drinking this monster eggnog my brother makes with lighter fluid" Charles DuMar, Better Off Dead
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Jobberman
Kishke








Since: 2.1.02
From: West Palm Beach, FL

Since last post: 84 days
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#2 Posted on


I personally never thought Cobain was a role model or a revolutionary. I just dug the music. Still do. I don't know how old the person you were arguing with is, but I've have seen Nirvana effect some younger people rather powerfully. I was like 17 when Nevermind came out. I liked it well enough, but it didn't change my life. But at the same time alot of the kids totally latched onto Cobain and made him into something he wasn't, or wanted to be. He wasn't the first to play 3 chords and have an attitude, but in 1991 on the radio there was nothing out there but the dying hairbands, and shit like Right Said Fred. Nirvana was the gateway to the explosion that changed the music scene for years to come. Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Screaming Trees...all got an expanded audience because of Nirvana.

As far as my favorite punk bands go : Ramones & 7 Seconds..



Why, oh why, didn't I take the blue pill...
DrewDewce
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

Since last post: 20 days
Last activity: 3 days
Y!:
#3 Posted on
I always thought they were the right guys at the right time. There was just such a lull music-wise, kind of like there is right now with the entire industry ready to shed teen pop and follow the next big trend.

If you believe MTV (and there's no reason you should), things are shifting back to the more singer-songwriter type of thing, but they also said electronica was going to take off and be the next big thing a few years back. Not saying that there wasn't some impact with it, but it was nothing like the "grunge" movement (bands, clothes, etc.)

I do hate knowing what's it's like for other generations that listened to the Doors, Zeppelin, Beatles, etc. as bands they grew up with who dealt with death. It's so weird to hear a Nirvana song, and even INXS and the first thing that comes to my mind is the lead singer's apparent suicide. Of course, that's a selfish way to think about it, but I guess I'm a selfish guy.

Nirvana did have some good songs, but Matthew Sweet's "Girlfriend" hit around that time, and that was what did it for me then. Still does.

drew2
FLRockAndLaw
Boerewors








Since: 2.1.02
From: Central Florida, somewhere between Orlando and Tampa, U.S.A.

Since last post: 74 days
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#4 Posted on
It is my sincere hope that Congress and the President will pass my recent bill into law. Under that bill, anyone who calls Nirvana a "legendary band" or "legends" or "a legend", or who says that Nirvana and/or Kurt Cobain is a "spokesman" or "spokesperson" or "role model" or "hero" or a "voice" of his/her generation shall be punished under federal law with a fine of not greater than $10,000 U.S. and/or a prison sentence in a federal prison not to exceed 12 months.



"One day, we will be reunited. But until then, my spirit will always be with you." - "Mortal Kombat," 1995.
"HOLY CRAP! A wuvluv is in my house." - Dean Rasmussen
Omar Padilla
Chourico








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 842 days
Last activity: 840 days
#5 Posted on
AMEN!
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#6 Posted on
I MISS electronica. I used to be able to just base my CD buying on whatever I saw that week on "AMP!"



CRZ™
Visit [slash] wrestling
Raptor
Blutwurst








Since: 21.1.02
From: Lousyana

Since last post: 4610 days
Last activity: 4503 days
#7 Posted on
"your talking about the songs, wierd lyrics and uninteligible singing do not a revolutionary make"

If you're talking about wierd lyrics and the like, Nirvana cannot hold a candle, lighter, match, spark, or ANYTHING remotely flammable to the king of wierd lyrics, Monster Magnet.

Of course, MM also kicks all kinds of ass.

I don't mind Nirvana much, but they're just a standard alternative band. If I want revolutionary, I'll listen to Trent Reznor.



No matter how bad things may get, just imagine what would happen if Vince Russo was booking again, and you will feel better.
Merc
Potato korv








Since: 3.1.02
From: Brisbane, Australia

Since last post: 1291 days
Last activity: 1269 days
#8 Posted on
"they're just a standard alternative band."

That's the big thing though. They were genuinely alternative at the time they broke it big. Their sound wasn't majorly different to when they made Bleach which would easily have sold more after Nevermind than before.
I don't think you could justify any of the visionary or legendary crap if you look at it objectively, but you can't tell that to a rabid young fan.

I personally wonder if the reaction would still be the same if Cobain didn't top himself.



I'm a fat wannabe surfer
cdstunner
Loukanika








Since: 25.1.02
From: parts unknown

Since last post: 4509 days
Last activity: 4411 days
#9 Posted on
If Cobain didn't off himself I'm sure they would have gone the way of all the other Seattle bands by now. Pearl Jam is still kicking, but now their just clinging to their "credibility" and "ethics", which state, "We love our fans, therefore we will play none of the songs that made us and never make another video. Also, because we are not in it for money, we will release 5 million live albums of our last tou, varying the set list by only one or two songs, so our fans can buy every live performance we've done." But I digress, Cobain probably would have ended up like Layne Staley, a hopeless heroin addict.
I actually just saw the asshole that started me off on this whole thing. Of course he was talking about Nirvana again, this time he was postulating on the "Courtney had him killed" theory. So I laughed at him and started hitting on his girlfriend.



"I could be home right now, drinking this monster eggnog my brother makes with lighter fluid" Charles DuMar, Better Off Dead
Papercuts!
Potato korv








Since: 3.1.02
From: Springfield, Mo.

Since last post: 4468 days
Last activity: 4378 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Originally posted by cdstunner
Pearl Jam is still kicking, but now their just clinging to their "credibility" and "ethics", which state, "We love our fans, therefore we will play none of the songs that made us and never make another video. Also, because we are not in it for money, we will release 5 million live albums of our last tou, varying the set list by only one or two songs, so our fans can buy every live performance we've done."



You could not be more wrong. If you looked at even ONE of those "five million live albums," or their "Tour Band 2000" DVD, you'd see Pearl Jam IS playing ALL of the "songs that made them" while on tour.

And WHY do they need another video? So you can complain about seeing the video all the time? Seriously, as a fan of any band, I'd rather have more music than another crappy video.

And the "Five million live albums" you refer to were done SPECIFICALLY to prevent the sale of bootleg recordings of their concerts. Pearl Jam is one of many acts out there where there is a LARGE trade in many people selling bootlegs. Go into any head shop in town that sells "rarities" and you'll see a SLEW of illegally recorded (bootleg) Pearl Jam live shows selling for at least $50.

The band as a whole has ZERO problem with people recording their shows. The problem comes from people selling them for profit.

So to discourage this, they went ahead and recorded every show from both legs of their tour, remastered the recordings on two discs per show and sold them for ten bucks a pop on their website -- Considerably less than a poor quality $50 bootleg you'd pay for at SoundVision or whatever. Obviously, the low-cost of the discs shows they can't make a profit from them, either.

That way, if you want a boot, you're not paying through the nose and they're not illegally recorded, either.

Dave Matthews' Band has used a similar tactic as well.

Also, check the "set list" closely on those bootleg releases. It's pretty obvious they're not just varying the set list by one or two songs as you claim.



Jason Baldwin
Head Writer, 4-Color Review
And the guy behind PAPER CUTS!
TRUTHFUL comic book commentary
Every Thursday, only at 4-Color Review
http://4colorreview.com

(edited by Papercuts! on 28.1.02 0913)
Yun
Salami








Since: 2.1.02
From: Just outside Dudleyville

Since last post: 3248 days
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#11 Posted on
Hell, of the Seattle Four (Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, and Pearl Jam) I always found it sad that the biggest of them was the worst of the bunch...

Alice in Chains had a better songwriter (Jerry Cantrell)
Soundgarden and Alice in Chains both had better singers (Chris Cornell and Layne Staley)
Pearl Jam had a better bassist (Jeff Ament)
All three had better guitarists (Mike McCready, Kim Thayil, and Jerry Cantrell)

The only thing Nirvana had going for them was the best drummer of the bunch (Dave Grohl) who, incidentally is a better guitarist, singer, and songwriter than Kurt Cobain ever was!



Once you start down the smark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

Yun Cheolsu (FKA Cactus Jon)
Foley Mark
Raven Mark
Kane Mark
Hardy Mark
Just Plain Mark
Author
Musician
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High Priest of the Temple of Spork
Merc
Potato korv








Since: 3.1.02
From: Brisbane, Australia

Since last post: 1291 days
Last activity: 1269 days
#12 Posted on
Originally posted by Yun
The only thing Nirvana had going for them was the best drummer of the bunch (Dave Grohl) who, incidentally is a better guitarist, singer, and songwriter than Kurt Cobain ever was!


Now you've done it. Courtney Love will hunt you down and kill you. "Everybody" knows that Dave Grohl is a talentless hack drummer trading off the image of her dead husband, may he rest in peace.



I'm a fat wannabe surfer
Keith Myath
Bauerwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Palma

Since last post: 4616 days
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#13 Posted on
Heh, I'm surprised she's not gonna sue us for using the name "Nirvana" in these posts.





"I'll @#%! 'til you love me, you @#!!$%!" --Mike Tyson to a reporter who said he should be put in a straightjacket, Jan. 22, 2002
Wyn
Longanisa








Since: 28.2.02
From: Indiana

Since last post: 4526 days
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#14 Posted on
Blasphemy!

Gah. It saddens my heart to see so many put down Nirvana. For one, do you people know -anything- about Kurt? He didn't want the fame... That's -one- reason he killed himself. Another reason was that he had some sort of stomach disease that doctors couldn't classify. He was constantly in pain and that's what got him hooked on drugs. Also, he was losing his vocal chords. I mean, he was under a lot of stress. Pain, depression, addiction, losing his voice, and he was married to Courtney Love. If I had all of that on my head, I'd probably blow it off, too. I loved his music. He was an artist. He didn't write the lyrics to make sense. He wrote them because they sounded pretty together to him. The fact that his style caught on wasn't his choice. I'm sure he enjoyed it at first, but he was a shy person. If he'd had a choice, at some point I think he said, he'd have stayed a local band. It stopped being fun for him. :/ Anyhow, I think that all this hatred is unnecessary. He's not a god, a martyr or an enemy. He was just a guy who wrote some very cool music.




Jekyll and Hyde had nothin' on me. >8D
Qubber
Boerewors








Since: 7.1.02
From: Sheffield, UK

Since last post: 2753 days
Last activity: 2015 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
I'll keep short and sweet on this one, otherwise I could go on for a while. I love Nirvana, mainly because they dragged us out of Boy Band/Pop crap hell, but also because I was early teens when they caught on and they meant something to me back then. I also really like the Foo Fighters and rate Dave Grohl (he's got a sense of humour which is more than a lot of "stars" nowadays), flame me for that if you like.

However, I've never bought into the "never wanted fame" arguement that Cobain and Pearl Jam always put out. If you don't want fame, don't sign a record contract and put out albums. It's easy to stay unknown, or as a cool little band with a following.



"Nobody enjoys a good time more than I do, but this business of yours is as legitimate as a three-legged donkey...which of course is illegitimate because as we all know donkeys have four legs."

Lance Storm, 21st January 2002.
Saruman
Salami








Since: 25.1.02
From: Kirksville, MO

Since last post: 4457 days
Last activity: 4428 days
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#16 Posted on
Wow. Bashing Nirvana. I never thought I'd see this....
Well, here's a question: Do you like that Britney Spears Teeny bopper stuff? If not, well, you would've thanked Nirvana about 10 years ago. They made non-prefab music acceptable to radio stations.
And the lyrics aren't "weird," at least no more weird than anything else. Like, how is "Sliver" even remotely odd?
Really, Nirvana had a Huge Impact on what music was played in the 90s. Your NiN would have struggled much more to find itself on the radio without SLTS.
On the other hand, Kurt never took it to Clashian heights of awesomeness, and he really ran out of statements after "hey, I'm bored."
But what bands now make any kind of political statement? Well, Manics are bout all I can think of.



Insert clever comment.
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 15 hours
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
i thought courtney killed kurt and set it up as a suicide???



I am my own worst enemy, and I make it a point to kill all my enemies...
R-I-P?
Karlos the Jackal
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#18 Posted on
I had a college radio show when the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" single was released, and I think I played it three or four times that show alone (of course, being in a college town a hundred miles North of Seattle, Nirvana was as close to hometown boys as we were going to get, except for the Posies, who actually grew up here and started their band here but then claimed that they were never from here -- but I digress -- suffice it to say, Nirvana was definitely classified as "local").

I don't think I can put into words how exciting it was at the time, and how perfect the song seemed, and how, when that video showed on MTV, it seemed like someone finally put what you felt into tangible form and put it there in the screen and showed it to everyone else, and it was a big "fuck you" to the jocks and preppies and assholes who had previously ruled the airwaves.

Of course, very soon, the corporations had gobbled it up and shat it out and fed it back to us, and the word "alternative" had become a marketing ploy, and I lost interest. During that slim gap, though, it was something else.

Oh, and Courtney's a huge bitch.

--K
Yun
Salami








Since: 2.1.02
From: Just outside Dudleyville

Since last post: 3248 days
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#19 Posted on
Why do I dislike Nirvana (hate is too strong a word sine I do like a few of their songs) for the same reason I hate The Ramones, The Clash and any other punk band: I like music.

Like their predecessors Nirvana managed to convince the general public that being a practiced musician with total mastery of your instrument was a sign of pretentiousness. This "three chords and the truth" crap is just that... crap! Because Nirvana caught on groups like Dio, Iron Maiden, and Def leppard, either disappeared or changed their sound. Talented guitarists like Def Leppard's Phil Collen and Vivian Campbell were afraid to show their true talent for fear of being called "pretentious" or "egotistical."

Nirvana did not get rid of "teeny-bopper bullshit," they pushed talented guitarists who know more than four chords out of the spotlight and made them afraid to play to the best of their ability.



Everything's cool when you're Yun [point] Cheol [point] Su [point]
tarnish
Frankfurter








Since: 13.2.02
From: Back in the Heart of Hali

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Y!:
#20 Posted on

If you believe that Cobain & Co. were in any way original, have a listen to the Pixies, the Melvins, and a smattering of punk. But originality has never really been a hallmark of greatness (it can get you ahead if you've got it, but having it is by no means a prerequisite for fame).

As far as I'm concerned, next to none of the bands from the famed Seattle Scene were very original, nor did any of them really stand out. Pearl Jam was an arena RAWK band without the guitar pyrotechnics, Nirvana would have been punk if they hadn't learned to read, and Alice in Chains was a metal band who felt the wind change (check out their first album for proof of this).

The industry was confused circa 1991; they didn't know what the next thing was going to be. Suddenly there was a story about a bunch of bands in Seattle and how great they were. Were they? Probably no more than bands in San Francisco or New York. But those places had already been done to death; Seattle got the nod based on its image as a city and a geographical region (claiming that the angst of `Seattle Music' was due to the weather was such a bunch of shit I can't believe it, but it was the subject of many, many news stories at the time).

As the initial rush wore off, industry junkies started looking for the next big scene. In Halifax in 92/93 there were all sorts of industry-types kicking around, starting rumors about Halifax being the next big thing. Right.

Did it work? Hell no. Seattle was big for a couple of years. None of the scenes nominated to be next actually happened. Why? Because the industry doesn't like to work that way: they like to know where their next meal ticket is, not take a chance on four backwoods youths who are likely as not to dry up, quit or kill themselves. Plus, in this age of subdued economic growth, terrorism, etc., people want to pretend they're happy.

Enter Britney, Christina, N'Sync, and the Backstreet Boys.

Nirvana, Pearl Jam, etc., made the music industry seem a little less broken for a while. Did they set out to do it? Fuck no. Was it more than being in the right place at the right time? Probably not. But they did it, and they made some great music along the way.



/tarnish...
he's not Craven Moorehead anymore.
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I saw him perform in Chicago around '85 or so. Definitely one of a kind. Musically unique with great passion for his politics. The revolution will not go better with Coke....
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