The W
Views: 95574113
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
17.4.14 1117
The W - Pro Wrestling - OFFICIAL WAR THREAD (Page 2)
This thread has 25 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 Next(10585 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (44 total)
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 15 hours
AIM:  
#21 Posted on

    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID



    Also, Austin was the top babyface in the WWF, which on television means he's the protagonist of the TV show, the main character. People do not relate to HHH's character in the same way they did to Austin.



It's funny that you use Austin the face as your example, when the example that Mr. Shh was using was when Austin was a heel. They still pushed him to the moon then, too.

On HHH's reaction. It's there, and it's real. I still remember going to a RAW last year, and the video of HHH's sugery came on and got one of the bigger pops of the night. There's no way anybody is going to convince me that HHH isn't over with the marks. And no, it isn't just "buzz" by the WWE promotional machine. People see him as a legit star because he is. He has innate charisma and skill that people recognize and acknowledge.

Could he do with a little less exposure, sure. But I think all this griping and finger pointing is ridiculous. And I honestly wouldn't be HALF as sick of HHH as I am right now, if EVERYBODY wasn't saying how sick of HHH they were. People say they're sick of HHH, and I know that when HHH is on or mentioned on TV they're going to say how sick of him they are, so now by proxy, I too am sick of him.

Mission accomplished HHH Haters! Now I'm going to go play the video game with his face on the cover and try to forget about all this. It's time to play the game...




Since everyone else is doing it (ok, not EVERYONE, but...)

Vikings (3-7) - Where the hell has THAT team been?
Badgers (6-6) - Bowl bound! Oh wait...
Buffy 7... Earns Pi x 2 points...Uh...Not really sure what I'm supposed to thing...That was one friggin' weird episode...
Torchslasher
Knackwurst








Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 190 days
Last activity: 157 days
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.44
I think the fact that fans are still responding to him is what may frustrate us the most. HHH has not regained the form from 2 years ago, gets put in bad angles, and still gets a reaction.

What gets me is that the WWE could get people to respond to RVD and Booker T the way they respond to HHH and Roid Boy (Steiner). The WWE, though, seems reluctant to elevate RVD the way they did HHH, and thus the marks are not responding as loud as they could be. But don't tell me that the WWE couldn't elevate RVD to championship material if they really wanted to. It's this kind of wishy-washy booking that kills the midcarders.

Case in point: Brock Lesnar. The WWE gave him a super push, and now he gets a loud reaction every time he comes out. RVD and Booker were not brought up that way, and they languish in front of the crowd.

If RVD was given the big push in 2001, we would all be reading many RVD haters/apologist threads now.



"Oh, a handful of change. I guess I can use this to go...um...buy some candy. So thank you for adding a step to my Halloween process"- homestarrunner

*I* will always remember the RFM Club!
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 16 hours
Last activity: 9 hours
AIM:  
#23 Posted on

    Originally posted by Excalibur05



    It's funny that you use Austin the face as your example, when the example that Mr. Shh was using was when Austin was a heel. They still pushed him to the moon then, too.

    On HHH's reaction. It's there, and it's real. I still remember going to a RAW last year, and the video of HHH's sugery came on and got one of the bigger pops of the night. There's no way anybody is going to convince me that HHH isn't over with the marks. And no, it isn't just "buzz" by the WWE promotional machine. People see him as a legit star because he is. He has innate charisma and skill that people recognize and acknowledge.



Crowd reactions mean little in the big picture. Goldberg got rather huge reactions in the final days of WCW and he still didn't get results. That doesn't mean pops are meaningless, of course, but someone can get the biggest pop of the night and do the worst ratings.

Maybe I misread his example, but even when Austin was a heel, it was clear that - while he had to share his spot with The Rock - he was the top star in the company legitimately, because he was still in demand. He was well deserving of his spot, even as a heel, because he was the one the fans tuned in to see on a weekly basis.

I never stated that HHH doesn't get reactions from the crowd. However, keep in mind that all of the fans that are cheering for HHH in the arenas are in smaller numbers than they were years ago, and the numbers keep shrinking.

That's not to say that, if Austin were to return tomorrow, the gates would be flooded with people and attendance would suddenly be up (though it is possible), but ever since HHH's ascention, business has gone down. Austin's heel turn killed business, but it wasn't because Austin was the champion, it was because heel Austin wasn't what the fans wanted to see. The WWF made a move that killed a great portion of his popularity via Stephanie's bad writing... but, the fans still wanted to buy into Austin's character.

HHH's push wasn't a product of the WWF's marketing? It absolutely was, because HHH never has and never will be on the level of Steve Austin or The Rock, but yet he is portrayed as being better than they ever were on a weekly basis, even when they were around. He was put into the position that he was by Vince and the rest of maagement. He had a highly acclaimed series of matches in 2000, that is something that can be used in his defense, but the numbers of 2000 don't justify his position today (and, yes, I say the same thing about Steve Austin in 1999, too).

Austin had several key moments where the fans decided he was what they wanted to see (Bret/Austin, Austin/McMahon) while HHH had many moments where the WWF made him look better than someone else to make him look good to the fans. The fans made Steve Austin, the WWF made Triple H, and Triple H knows it. That's why the "writers" make him look better than everyone else does (except for HBK, apparently) every week.
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 290 days
Last activity: 290 days
#24 Posted on

    Originally posted by Simba
    I agree that hating HHH is seemingly the popular thing these days on the WV. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, which is why we're here. However, I will submit that we take a lot of what we read online as face value and a lot of "facts" are nothing more than opinion or speculation by the author.
    I know a lot of people won't admit this, (and I'm sure we'll get a million "not me" replies) but a lot of WV posters seem to follow the opinions and views of Scott Keith. (and Dave Meltzer, by proxy) Think about it... he's really the only "high-profile" recapper out there that posts his opinions and has a loyal readership. (CRZ was more about the facts and nitty-gritty in his recaps, with an occasional opinion here or there) To contrast, Keith will expound upon a match with opinion and speculation. Check out his Summerslam review of the HBK/HHH match. He gave the match a high rating, then dove into a paragraph of how this match shouldn't have been this way or that way because of politics, or some story that Meltzer said 5 years ago, etc. He wasn't there, Dave likely wasn't there, and we certainly weren't there, but it's being taken as "fact" to the IWC.
    Hey, more power to him. I would probably do the same in his position. His readership has given him a powerful voice in the IWC. Even his harshest critics can't deny that. I would just caution people to take a minute to actually consider something as "fact" before they believe it.

    EDIT: Man, talk about long-winded. Basically, I'm saying that a lot of people are taking Scott's point of view on this whole HHH thing because they read it week after week. Damn, I tried to combine about 5 different points into one post. Sorry about that.

    (edited by Simba on 20.11.02 1246)






Usually, when you see Keith's name in the site bashing section, its people ripping him to shreds. Now, he's our leader?
As for people talking about crowd reaction: Remember the people in Cleveland popping for Bagwell's name. How did that turn out again?



I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1126 days
Last activity: 7 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#25 Posted on
How much does a wrestler's "intro" help his pop? I mean, it is pretty clear that a wrestlers intro/pyro is akin to theme melodies (a la Peter and the Wolf)... and there is no denying that HHH has a fairly cool damned intro. The music is loud, he has intricate lighting... and his entrance is very choreographed. Now I ask you, how much does THAT contribute to his pop's from the marks?
We here look at a wrestler in a completely different vein than your average "mark." Most people here think Benoit is God... but he does not get nearly the response of HHH. He lacks charisma and his intro is not all that exciting.
Take Kurt Angle. It is safe to say that just about everyone here loves the guy. But what about "the marks?" They love him too, but in a different way. He is entertaining to be sure, but look at his intro? Cool music, appropriate pyro. oh yeah, and you can chant "You Suck!" in beat with his music, and it sounds cool. And Kurt Responds to it at times. Come on, admit it... any of you that have seen him live chanted right along with it. I know I have... because it is fun.
We are in the minority here, sadly. The WWE does not cater to the IWC, and really, nor should it. HHH is boring us lately. This is generally factual, whether you think we should go easy on him or not. But the WWE really only has 2 tools that they rely upon to determine how well something is going- crowd reaction and ratings. The crowd goes nuts when HHH comes out (whether it is his intro or something else), and ratings are down. Hence, HHH is not the problem, in their eyes.
So if you want to blame anything for our HHH overdose... blame his music.




"Pool-Boy"


Well- my ass still hurts, but lets see what happens this week...
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3400 days
Last activity: 1820 days
#26 Posted on
There is so much to touch upon here I don't even know where to start. This is going to be long guys.

Let me start right on top. People accusing others of bashing. I don't know about your definition of bashing but my defination is hating someone for no real apparent reason ie. I hate that guy because he has long hair, big muscles and Canadian, now that's a mindless bash... Or I hate that girl because she has blonde hair and looks like a barbie doll. Those things sound like bashing, your not talking on them as what they do in the ring but just how they look.

As for Triple H, what I hear is real criticism and facts
- He hasn't put anyone over in a long time who's not in there or pushing 40 and in the twilight of their careers (Hogan, Taker, Michaels)
- You upper midcarders seem to hit a roadblock in popularity and stature after facing Triple H
- His workrate has gone really done. He had feuds with Jericho, RVD and Angle this year and non of those matches were even close to the best matches those guys had this year... How about his awful 2 PPV main event this summer with Hogan & TAker, both those old timers had better matches (IMO) with freakin Ric Flair.

- Had a horrible superman face run early this year which had one of the most forgettable WM main events since Sid v. Taker... After that failed turned heel and became the figurehead of the Raw show that has slumped badly and not really elevate anyone
- Ratings dropped on Raw and even more telling the second hour rating gets no jump and on a few times decreases as HHH is champion
- Disses Jericho before WM in mainstream media. Says guys he's facing "not ready" in cincy papers recently.
- Plucking Steph. Yup some might say one has nothing to do with the other. But when I see every other guy get a 6 week push and get the rug pulled from under them and even the great Hulk Hogan got a 2 month push before the pulled the plug. But HHH has had a strong number 1 push for 10 months with very little upside forgive me for putting 1+1 together

But the HHH defenders on the most part don't defend him. They argue back in just claiming "You're a basher, You're a hater, You're a smark, You're a Meltzer/SK wannabe". You like the guy fine, but don't label everyone as bashers for legit reasons in not liking him.

Okay some defended him by saying he gets a big pop. First off isn't he a heel? shouldn't his job is to make the guy he's wrestling more popular? That's what I feared when I saw him being pushed as the #1 heel/guy on Raw with a bunch of young upper midcarders. If he's in there with Rock or Austin it's fine but the second he's in there with someone who needs to build it never works because he splits the crowd therefore the popularity of the face goes down.

I think we have to be careful in pushing people just by their pop. It's the whole you can't get work without experience but you can't get experience without work. Same thing here. You don't get a push without a pop but it's hard to get a pop without a strong push. Just look at Lesner, he was getting "Goldberg" chants not so long ago, but they saw talent in him pushed him hard and now he is really getting over... I personally love them pushing someone with talent then pushing someone who just gets a pop. Dare god last thing I need is TV shows and PPV's focusing on Rikishi's ass.

I was never a HHH fan, but a couple of years ago I respected him. He's never my favourite but *I* did vote him Wrestler of the year 2 years ago because he was amazing, but he's not anymore not even close and I really think he has no place as the main guy. Who is? Don't really know, we all have our favourites, but I would like to see anyone get half the chance (which would be around 5 months) to sucessed or fail that Triple H got this year... From day one I though Angle would have been perfect for the Triple H spot on Raw. The heel that everyone's chasing. His matches would be more entertaining, so is his character. Call it a wild guess but I think he'd get the faces on Raw a lot more over then Triple H did.

Also read here that Austin/Rock got a lot of TV time. Well they deserved it. People tunned in to see them and on the most part they were really entertaining (IMO). People are not really tunning in to see THe Triple H show like I mentioned people are tunning out in the second hour... Now if Angle gets the TV time HHH is getting. I'll be honest I wouldn't mind because Angle's a joy everytime he's on my screen. So I like seeing Angle much like I feel about Austin. The problem isn't just HHH TV time the problem is his character is boring as hell and it's getting a lot of TV time, it's a bad combo.

Well that's about it, sorry for being so long but I tried to touch on every subject on here which went a few directions... Ohh one more thing it was me who wrote up that in the PPV halloween ad that Jericho was such a small scronny kid, while the HHH kid looks like he hit puberty and towers over Jericho (the Trish kid she's taller then Jericho too). I thought it was really funny and wrote it up as tounge in cheek matter. If no one saw that way. oh well.


(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 20.11.02 1823)


Oh they have the internet on computers now!
Cerebus
Knackwurst








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 11 hours
#27 Posted on
I don't 'hate' ANYBODY(...except maybe Hogan), I just get annoyed by them. With so many other guys on the roster (D-Lo, Goldust, Tommy Freamer, Stevie Richards...) who could be getting on-air time; we get atleast an hour of HHH during each show. Why not let someone else earn a pay check for once?

If he isn't there, the announcers talk about him. You know, Gordon Solie and Lance Russell didn't do that shit. THEY knew how to keep a viewers attention without ruining a match. Freakin' Vince isn't ruining wrestling, he already has.
CxMorgado
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Boston MA is the rippen'ist town...

Since last post: 114 days
Last activity: 23 hours
#28 Posted on

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    Look at the last year. How many times has HHH been simply killed? I can't think of a single one since his return from the quad injury. And I do not count losing a casket match or anything like that. You ALL know what I am talking about. The closest he came was getting tossed into a trunk by Kane and he even screwed THAT up by "escaping"


I hate to bring this up, cuz it really has nothing to do with Pool-Boy, but I have to point out that it's things like his line about HHH escaping the trunk of the car that tend to spark the feuding between 'haters and defenders. I've lost track of how many threads get filled up with one line jabs about HHH not jobbing to a car trunk to hold back Kane, or wondering when he'll no sell death next: THATS what makes the people defending HHH yell "Smark" more than anything else, at least from my vantage point. Making bad, and sometimes insultingly childish jokes rather than making a coherent argument does not help anyone get a point across, especially since most of them are recycled from months ago when the events being joked about actually happened.

If you've got a valid argument as to why you don't like HHH or Bradshaw, or the Big Show, or whoever: thats great, I am all for discussion. But when people stick snide little jokey remarks at the end of every paragraph, or hide their point in 5 lines of crap, it totally kills the point they're trying to make and that's why some people have their throats jumped down.

Pool-Boy's post was cool with me, I didn't mean to single him out(after all one joke does not a smark make), but it reminded me of what usually makes me go off on people about "bashing" of wrestlers.

This thread has been really good: lots of long, thought out posts. I'm psyched.



Back to back!
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 15 hours
AIM:  
#29 Posted on
And that's exactly what ticks me off more often than not. I'm not a huge HHH fan, I don't think that he's in the main event without reason, but I don't think that he's the greatest person to revolve a TV show around either.

But I'm sick of these little "funny" jokes, the constant little picky ones that everybody feels they have to use.

Ok, you don't like him, fine. But giving him a nickname that you think is "cute" or making the same tired joke about how he's holding people down or only getting pushed because he's sleeping with Stephanie is beyond annoying.

If you want to complain about HHH's moveset, his lack of good-great matches with guys like Jericho or Van Dam or how ratings are slipping while he's in the ring, and you want to show how, then great. But if you just want to throw around some lame insults to a guy who doesn't even read the board...Why?

There's a difference between people who don't like HHH for valid reasons and people who are just HHHaters. I'm sure you can tell the difference.

Making inflamitory comments about the guy is just a level above trolling in my book. Why intentionally post a message that you know people will adamantly disagree with, just to be cute or to be inflamitory?

I mean, I know I don't go hang out in the Dragon Ball forums and bitch about how Goku never jobs, or Buffy forums and complain about how Sarah Michelle Gellar is holding down Emma Caulfield and hogging screen time. I don't know, maybe I'm missing the boat on this whole "Let's all bitch bitch bitch" trend. Who here hates Triscuts? I think they suck and are holding Cheez-Its down. I think from now on I'll call them Bitchscuts Snack Crackers.




Since everyone else is doing it (ok, not EVERYONE, but...)

Vikings (3-7) - Where the hell has THAT team been?
Badgers (6-6) - Bowl bound! Oh wait...
Buffy 7... Earns Pi x 2 points...Uh...Not really sure what I'm supposed to thing...That was one friggin' weird episode...
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1126 days
Last activity: 7 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#30 Posted on
I will admit that YES, the intention was for HHH to be locked in the trunk. However, if I did not bring that point up because it woul dhave later been thrown up to REFUTE my argument.
The WWE's intentions with that angle aside... the result is what is important. The fact that THAT particular incident was the closest HHH has come in a long time to looking truly weak in any situation, and the fallout from that error simply served to make Kane worse than ever. HHH screwed up by not securing the trunk properly- it was his mistake but nothing was made of it. Mistakes happen, but the HHH character looked better because of it. That is the only think I was trying to convey- not a joke...
HOWEVER... I understand the point you were trying to make... I just thought that I would clarify my point :).





"Pool-Boy"


Well- my ass still hurts, but lets see what happens this week...
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 22 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#31 Posted on
The thing that annoys me most about these debates and threads is when there is the slightest sign of HHH not selling, not holding anyone down or whatever the line
"try defending that, you HHHapologists" in one form of the other gets thrown around.

This has gone beyond debating or discussing. You (hater)will just laugh at my (defender) opinions just as I should do with yours but I cannot because it's always all over the place.

And I do NOT apologize for the man, I defend him and his actions at times when I think it necesarry but I do that for everyone and every angle that I like and see something redeeming in.



minextoo
Chorizo








Since: 28.5.02
From: Bloomington, IN

Since last post: 3597 days
Last activity: 3362 days
#32 Posted on
Let me start by saying that I have never liked HHH not in 2000, not in 1998, not ever. Not that he hasn't been entertaining on occasion (mostly in his DX days) but i never really liked him.

Now, I don't know what goes on backstage and i don't really care about who on this board is annoyed by me. But it will probably make me feel a little better to put my two cents in even if no one reads it.

Yes, Triple H had a great run in 2000. Deserved to be in the main event, world champ, blah blah blah. What I really think is mostly overlooked though is this, Triple H great run was almost entirely due to his opponents. I mean, feed him Foley, The Rock, Jericho, Angle and Austin and yeah, he's going to have good matches. Hell, I would have good matches in that scenario and I know crap about actually wrestling. Yeah, he had a good match with Michinoku (A superior worker in my opinion that HHH) and Undertaker at X7 to his credit. But for the most part he is carried by his opponents. Does anyone even remember him beating the Big Show for the World Title?

In his second book, Foley told the story of the rebirth of Cactus Jack on RAW and how important the moment was to the angle and how HHH reacted like he'd seen a ghost and that made the angle. He was right. Now -- would HHH of today react like that? If you think he would, I'd like your e-mail address, I have a few things to sell you.

Yes, HHH gets a big reaction from the crowd. Why shouldn't he? It's been booked that everyone on the show is not only a level below HHH but several levels below. There are no believable contenders because of how they've been treated in their fueds with HHH. Now you can say that that's not HHH faults, i call that crap. I don't know what goes on backstage, but i see the damn matches.

If he'd bumped for Jericho, RVD or Kane like he did for his good buddy Shawn during their match at Summerslam they would be viable contenders today. In my eyes, Kane has never looked so weak as he does now. And he's always been one of my favorites. I mean in his "fued" with HHH he got beat at every single corner. Not only does it hurt Kane, but it hurts television because it's boring.

HHH is the reason I go out on Mondays now so I can record RAW. That way when ever i see HHH come out for an interview or have a backstage vignette not involving one of my favorite wrestlers, its fast forward baby.

HHH hater and proud of it and don't give a damn if you hate me for it.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1240 days
Last activity: 148 days
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

    Originally posted by Excalibur05
    But I'm sick of these little "funny" jokes, the constant little picky ones that everybody feels they have to use.

    Ok, you don't like him, fine. But giving him a nickname that you think is "cute" or making the same tired joke about how he's holding people down or only getting pushed because he's sleeping with Stephanie is beyond annoying.



Hell, one of the main reasons I read this board is to laugh at other people's funny comments! I mean, a serious discussion can be okay, but this board is fun because it's full of smart-asses. I love the doctored up pictures, the silly nicknames, everything.

And even through I can't stand HHH (crap, can't think of anything cute to add here), some of the funniest stuff has been about guys that I like. I don't take it personally.

This isn't debate class and it ain't C-SPAN. If there's a humor moratorium, I'm gonna split!



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me

Never been a Wiener of the Day

RFMC Vice President (I think)

Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1126 days
Last activity: 7 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#34 Posted on
You deb-HHHater...




"Pool-Boy"


Well- my ass still hurts, but lets see what happens this week...
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1798 days
Last activity: 1732 days
#35 Posted on
I personally have no probs whatsoever with the heated debate about the guy. I find him entertaining sometimes (the Elimination Chamber, his feud with Michaels in general, some of his stuff with RVD) and annoying others (the whole Kane angle, the fuss made over him at Vengeance). What I object to, however-and here I'm not trying to start a fight with you again, asteroidboy-is that not one, but TWO peeps jumped on me the other day, labelling HHH as "my hero" and "my boy", just because I defended him. And sometimes, things just become ludicrous. Blaming the entirety of the WWE's problems on him is really narrow-minded, and calling him "hideously untalented" and the like is equally stupid. For example, HHH at least takes what he does seriously, unlike fellow Clique member Nash. Have you ever seen H just totally half-ass it on the mic? Or treat an opponent as a complete joke? he may not job as much as he should, but he sure as Hell isn't as low as some.

And yes, some of the stuff about HHH is funny. But some is just plain cringeworthy. For example, when guys take a totally unrelated thread and turn it into an HHH piss-take area. OR when people right the hideously unfunny booking meeting parodies that usually start off with "I can just imagine how the meeting for this angle went...". In short, if you feel the need to bash Trips when we're talking about him, then go for it. But don't turn every single fucking subject to the man, for Christ's sakes. Because really, that's just another way of paying attention to him.




Apparently, I Am


Yes, My Coolness Has Gone Up

drjayphd
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 22.4.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 20 days
Last activity: 10 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#36 Posted on
Simba's comments: Keith isn't so much the leader as much as he is the only prolific recapper who throws his opinion in there all the time. I don't remember when, but I posted something to the effect of "piss off, Keith, the match was good". Someone replied saying that, in fact, Keith's just in "WWE sucks until Booker T gets the strap" mode. All about recognizing bias (as the same person said).

Pool-Boy's comment about HHH screwing up the trunk thing: Is it his fault the trunk popped open? I'm not directing this at him so much as I am the people who use that as an excuse of him "no-selling death".

Personally, I could do without so much of the guy on TV. I think the consensus is "he's okay in a limited role", and that's where I stand.




Today's Out-Of-Context Quote, Courtesy of Punkinhead:

"I'm gonna go dig up a date!"
astrobstrd
Bockwurst








Since: 13.3.02
From: Loveland, OH

Since last post: 2391 days
Last activity: 2358 days
AIM:  
#37 Posted on
My problems with HHH...

...has put on 2 good matches this year, both with his best buddy. Every other match he has been in was boring. I'm not looking for spot-fests every time, but I want more than kick, kick,kick, punch, punch, irish whip, clothesline, knee, kick, punch, corner choke, low blow, pedigree. He made RVD boring and that is an accomplishment (I'm not saying RVD is perfect, just not usually boring).

...takes twenty minutes to make a five minute point. This was one of my only complaints about him in 2000. He stammers, makes vague threats, tells unfunny jokes, adds -uh onto every fucking word, and repeats himself. They could give young talent more time to get itself over if HHH didn't take a sixth of the show to say he was going to be in a match for a sixth of the show.

...lets very few look good against him. RVD got some needed wins, but got shunted down so fast to the mid-card that I had to do a double-take when I him take the dive in a Regal-Storm match (not a knock on Regal, Storm, or Dreamer, but this isn't the spot for your 3rd or 4th biggest star on the show). Kane is ruined. I know the necro thing probably wasn't HHH's idea, but he gets to look like the clever, mean bastard and Kane looks like a retard. Kane's only win was upstaged by "Sexy Boy" playing. So was Booker T's. I think we ALL know his track record against Jericho. Before HBK, I can't even think of the last feud he lost? Not match, feud.

...is capable of much better. He was the fucking man in 2000 and 2001. Austin, Foley, and Rock had MOTY matches with him. He was brutal. He brought killer psychology. He was so fucking devious, I couldn't help but love him. The contract trick with Austin? Awesome. The match that followed, with a man with a recently reconstructed neck? Intense. I hated him so much during his feud with Foley, not in a "he's ruining the business" way, but in a markish "He is SUCH a dick" way.



"Words to memorize. Words hypnotize. Words make my mouth exercise. Words all fail the magic prize. Nothing I can say when I'm in your thighs."

-Violent Femmes
Ticamo
Boerewors








Since: 19.7.02
From: Trenton, NJ, USA

Since last post: 2606 days
Last activity: 1905 days
AIM:  
#38 Posted on
Personally, I am neither here nor there about HHH. There are times when I don't like him, there are times when I love him to death. I don't take him seriously enough to say that I "hate" him or "apologize" for him. He's a damn wrestler, sheesh guys.

I personally feel that he's always benefitted from great booking. No other person has ever really been booked to have a 95% (That's in Ticamo math) victory rate in his matches. I feel that in the beginning, he might have deserved great booking because he was a fine worker. Hell, Brock was booked excellently. Kurt Angle was too, but only during his first year in.

But at some point, HHH became lackadaisical. Maybe even starting to believe that he was 'That Damn Good' when all the while, it was the way he was booked to win his matches that was securing him a top spot on the WWE roster. Since 2000, when his matches were epic and had meaning, he's not worked nearly as hard, not bust out a new wrestling move (when he used to introduce a new one every PPV), or deserved to win a lot of the match ups he has.

I don't feel that anyone holds another down. I think that somewhere along the way, the WWE has developed a blinded eye for anyone who steps in the ring with HHH because they have him booked to win. It kills me to see RVD bust his ass in a match with HHH at a PPV and then have it be blown off with no further mention. You have to question whose fault is it, before you can automatically pin the blame on HHH. Someone in the back is basically practicing bad business and hopefully soon, they will stop.

It's easy to say that HHH's relationship with Stephanie is why he's booked to win, but what about back in 1999 when he went over five main eventers in that 6-pack match at Unforgiven, or how he had to win 5 matches in one night, on Smackdown, to get there. As far as we know, he was still with Chyna then and Stephanie had a minimal role with the WWE, so you can't attribute that to boning the bosses daughter. But I digress. It's all about the booking.

I also think that some people will allow some behavior from other wrestlers, that they refuse to give HHH. Like Jericho doing a radio show as Moongoose McQueen or whatever his Rock Star name is, in full character. Or a heel Jericho doing an interview in character. But the moment HHH says something, possibly while in character, he's putting down everyone else or not putting someone over. His character is self-centered and egotistical and thinks that he's the smartest/best/'The Game' in the business... Hell, he called himself 'GOD' on RAW recently. Maybe he was in character then. But that's more devil's advocate that supporting him. Isn't that possible?

I think that some people just cloud themselves up too much with wrestling writers' gossip, inside scoop, backstage sources, friend of a friend journalism and take things all for fact. It gets a little too old at times, but some moments, it's funny as all hell. Love him or Hate him, HHH is definately a good conversation piece and I still attribute that good booking to his success.

(edited by Ticamo on 22.11.02 0336)
astrobstrd
Bockwurst








Since: 13.3.02
From: Loveland, OH

Since last post: 2391 days
Last activity: 2358 days
AIM:  
#39 Posted on

    Originally posted by Ticamo
    I also think that some people will allow some behavior from other wrestlers, that they refuse to give HHH. Like Jericho doing a radio show as Moongoose McQueen or whatever his Rock Star name is, in full character. Or a heel Jericho doing an interview in character. But the moment HHH says something, possibly while in character, he's putting down everyone else or not putting someone over. His character is self-centered and egotistical and thinks that he's the smartest/best/'The Game' in the business... Hell, he called himself 'GOD' on RAW recently. Maybe he was in character then. But that's more devil's advocate that supporting him. Isn't that possible

    (edited by Ticamo on 22.11.02 0336)



I wouldn't care if HHH slammed people "in-character", but he breaks Kayfabe before he says this stuff. You never heard Rock or Jericho in an interview say, "Wrestling is fake and wrestler x is terrible and not ready." Rock breaks kayfabe, but puts everyone over. Jericho keeps kayfabe. Simple as that.



"Words to memorize. Words hypnotize. Words make my mouth exercise. Words all fail the magic prize. Nothing I can say when I'm in your thighs."

-Violent Femmes
Ticamo
Boerewors








Since: 19.7.02
From: Trenton, NJ, USA

Since last post: 2606 days
Last activity: 1905 days
AIM:  
#40 Posted on

    Originally posted by astrobstrd

      Originally posted by Ticamo
      I also think that some people will allow some behavior from other wrestlers, that they refuse to give HHH. Like Jericho doing a radio show as Moongoose McQueen or whatever his Rock Star name is, in full character. Or a heel Jericho doing an interview in character. But the moment HHH says something, possibly while in character, he's putting down everyone else or not putting someone over. His character is self-centered and egotistical and thinks that he's the smartest/best/'The Game' in the business... Hell, he called himself 'GOD' on RAW recently. Maybe he was in character then. But that's more devil's advocate that supporting him. Isn't that possible

      (edited by Ticamo on 22.11.02 0336)



    I wouldn't care if HHH slammed people "in-character", but he breaks Kayfabe before he says this stuff. You never heard Rock or Jericho in an interview say, "Wrestling is fake and wrestler x is terrible and not ready." Rock breaks kayfabe, but puts everyone over. Jericho keeps kayfabe. Simple as that.



Yes, I've certainly heard of that before. My question, as I stated before, was more from the Devil Advocate's POV. That wasn't necessarily my own true opinion, as I was really trying to stay in the middle of the debate here.

When he does go newspaper or radio interviews, then puts his fellow wrestlers down, that supports my other statement of:

But at some point, HHH became lackadaisical. Maybe even starting to believe that he was 'That Damn Good' when all the while, it was the way he was booked to win his matches that was securing him a top spot on the WWE roster.

He's very audacious to say those things like that about any person on the roster not being up to his level, when in fact, he's not up to the level that he had raised for himself in 2000.
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 Next
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 NextThread ahead: Mr. Potato Head will Die
Next thread: Scott Stiener
Previous thread: Stiener: Who Cares?
(10585 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
I think the reason they've become a bore is because they get used like an Eskimo uses ice cubes .
- Pheadfred, Why The APA..... (2002)
The W - Pro Wrestling - OFFICIAL WAR THREAD (Page 2)Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.541 seconds.